God in our Public Schools

[GoGoKokiGo]

I am definitely not closed minded, I did not grow up in the church, I grew up always looking for the party, that is how unclosed minded I am. I ran and did what I wanted, till it hit me square in the face. I had a decision to make, now closed minded, I am not, I seen the bad side, now I see the good, praise God, I would not even be here today, I would be dead, where I sat in ICU, or my husband, I would still be living it up or dead like half of my friends. Closed minded, not me. I been there. Thank God for coming into my life and giving me a second chance.

So was like god your doctor or something? Nurse? Was he on the medical staff somewhere in that ICU? I want to know why "god" gets the credit for things science does.

[Sohcahtoa]

If I was a doctor, I'd be pretty offended.  You spend tens of thousands of dollars and many years going through med school, and someone comes into your hospital ER from a horrible accident.  They're on the brink of death, and you work a double shift, sweating, tired, and aching, just so you can save this person's life.  And how do they thank you?

By giving credit to their imaginary friend in the sky.

How do you think that doctor feels?  To put such an effort to save a person's life, only to have them give the credit for surviving to someone else.

[ivyruefthaler1]

god made us all. God brought us here, and if god wanted to he could take us out

[totosli_08]

i dont think anybodys forcing god on anybody  the united states of america is all around based on god from the dollar bill to the pledge of alligance..there are many people in schools that are from a diffrent religion but why is everybody just stuck on tacking god out of everything  if your gonna attack one religion attack them all ..thats just my opinion

[liljp617]

i dont think anybodys forcing god on anybody  the united states of america is all around based on god from the dollar bill to the pledge of alligance..

Once again...    -.-

This is not a Christian country.  The government is not a Christian government.  This nation was not founded upon Christianity.  There is not a mention of Christianity in the Constitution or Declaration of Independence.  Many, if not a majority, of the Founding Fathers were deist, atheist, or agnostic.  Multiple Founding Fathers were opeonly anti-religious, specifically anti-Christianity.  Some of the Founding Fathers were Christians -- even those Founding Fathers who proclaimed themselves as Christians blatantly stated that, above all else, they were secularists and were adamant on founding a nation where the government and religion were separated.  The Constitution was very clear on this being a nation of freedom of religion, which also entails freedom FROM religion.  The Constitution also makes it more than clear that there shall be no official establishment of ANY religion in any government institution (public schools are a government institution, with government employees).

Once again... -.-

The phrase on US currency and the line in the Pledge were added in the 1950s in the midst of the Cold War.  They were put in place for absolutely no other reason except propaganda against the USSR.  They are not an accurate representation of the American citizenry and they are, without any doubt, unconstitutional.

there are many people in schools that are from a diffrent religion but why is everybody just stuck on tacking god out of everything  if your gonna attack one religion attack them all ..thats just my opinion

Can you not see what just happened?

"There are many people in schools that are from a different religion..."

EXACTLY!

This is the precise reason students should not be subject to forceful practicing of another religion.  This is the precise reason the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment exists.  Secular government institutions was among the most important goals of the Founding Fathers.


We are attacking Christianity specifically, because it is the most dominant religion in this nation that is constantly trying to push its nonsense into government.  You gave two examples yourself:  the Pledge and the phrase on US currency.

If Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, Greek mythology, Shinto, Taoism, Wicca, or any other religion you can think of replaced Christianity, my reactions, opposition, and arguments would be the same as they are now.

Once again... -.-

There is not some radical, undeserved prejudice against Christianity in this nation.  It is the most attacked and the most opposed in the US simply because it is the most prevalent and the one most often pushed by nutcases.  If you don't want it attacked, keep it in your church, keep it in your home, keep it in your organizations, keep it to yourself until people ask for the information.  If you don't want it attacked, keep it out of government (and by effect, public education), as was intended from the start.

[liljp617]

The Constitution forbids Congress from making any laws regarding the establishment of religion. Putting "In God We Trust" on the money is not establishing a religion, nor is it infringing on the free exercise of anyone's religion. The first amendment was not intended to mean that there could be no public profession of anything that could even be remotely considered religion. That is what you get in a Communist country, where everyone has to hide their religion, which is considered the "opium of the people."

That is precisely what the Establishment Clause is for.  Don't be ridiculous.

The Establishment Clause was put in place specifically to keep the government from taking a biased religious stance or respecting any religion more than another.  Legislating that all US currency make reference to the Christian God is making a law respecting Christianity -- it is clear violation of the Establishment Clause.  There's no getting around it.

I agree, the First Amendment does not bar "public profession" of religion; it protects one's right to do that actually, which I fully support.  Citizens can freely express their views about religion all they want in public provided no physical harm is done (they'll face whatever opposition comes about obviously).  What it does say is that the government cannot carry out this same action; it specifically says it is illegal for any branch of the government to show biased respect toward or unreasonably legislate in favor of any religious institution.

That is not the criteria for a communist government. That is what we call a secular government.  Do you know what communism is?  I suggest you do a little reading before throwing around fairly unrelated terms, such as communism.

[jaba187]

The Constitution does not reference the Christian god, nor is this country founded on the ideology of Christianity, nor were all the founders adamant on pushing Christianity into the government.  This is all blatantly obvious with just a little research and just a little reading into the context of the foundation.

"In God We Trust" and the "under God" (in the Pledge) were both added in the midst of the Cold War to nonsensically combat the view of "evil, godless communism."  They are not an accurate representation of the American public, and they are blatantly unconstitutional additions which should be done away with.



The teaching of theistic beliefs has no place in public schools.  If you want to teach the history of religions, the cultural/political ties religions have, and other topics like that that, go ahead.  But the actual teaching children to have faith in any specific god(s) or follow a certain religion is absolutely unacceptable in public education.  It is, frankly, morally reprehensible to teach younger children those things...along with it being obviously unconstitutional by the terms of the Establishment Clause.  

Contrary to silly popular belief, barring of religious teaching from public schools was not put in place to remove people's rights, it is there to protect rights.  If a school board all the sudden decided they wanted to start teaching Islam in a school district, began holding specific prayer times throughout the school day to pray to Allah, began mandatory teaching of Islamic traditions and beliefs, etc. people (Christians specifically) would be in uproar.  With the structure that is currently in place, this could never happen legally -- there is no legal basis for the teaching of any religious beliefs in public schools.  If you don't like it, get the Constitution amended; if you do so, I think you'll find that your rights are going to be infringed upon quite often and nobody will be there to stop it.

There is a place for education and there is a place for religion.  Education is meant for schools, religion is meant for churches (or private schools).

god is a good thing, without him the world would be in constant chaos.  maybe if god was allowed in schools there wouldn't be so much violence and bullying.

No, really there would likely be less chaos and more agreement.

There is no logical basis for saying there would be less violence/bullying if religion were pushed harder in schools.
[/quote

I agree with your statement above, I was also going to bring this up.

[walksalone11]

*ACLU to Argue FRIDAY for Kindergartener' s Right to Religious
Expression Before Appeals Court
http://www.commondr eams.org/ forward/emailref /50157

The U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit will hear arguments
Friday, December 4, in an appeal of a federal judge's ruling that
the Needville, Texas Independent School District (NISD) violated the
U.S. Constitution and Texas state law by punishing an American
Indian kindergarten student for wearing his long hair in braids as
an expression of his heritage and religious faith............

[liljp617]

*ACLU to Argue FRIDAY for Kindergartener' s Right to Religious
Expression Before Appeals Court
http://www.commondr eams.org/ forward/emailref /50157

The U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit will hear arguments
Friday, December 4, in an appeal of a federal judge's ruling that
the Needville, Texas Independent School District (NISD) violated the
U.S. Constitution and Texas state law by punishing an American
Indian kindergarten student for wearing his long hair in braids as
an expression of his heritage and religious faith............

He wasn't punished for his religious beliefs or any religious expression, he was punished for disobeying the known dress code.  Perfectly reasonable.

He should be held to the same standard as every other student in the school -- his parents enrolled him with full knowledge that there was a dress code and that it prohibited long hair on male students.  If his parents didn't know this, then they didn't read the handbook they were given when they enrolled him...which is entirely their fault.  Willful ignorance of the rules/laws does not excuse you from the consequences of breaking them.

There is a limit to religion.  Disobeying known rules in an educational setting and pulling the "religion card" doesn't work.  I'm very surprised the ACLU is even wasting their time with this nonsense.  He was not unfairly treated, assuming of course, that other students are equally punished for disobeying the dress code, regardless of "religious expression."

But taking into account that he is a kindergartner, maybe this punishment wasn't entirely necessary.  I'm sure his parents made sure he was ready for school that morning and probably even dropped him off at the school or bus stop.  Measures should have been taken to speak to the parents and let them know this behavior is prohibited before tossing a five year old in detention.  

That doesn't change the facts obviously -- he was not put in detention for expression of his religion, he was put in detention for breaking the dress code that every student is required to follow.  If you're going to relax the dress code for religious expression, then you have to relax it for every kind of expression, in which case you no longer have a dress code.

[James9777]

They should teach about ALL gods and religions and then let the kids learn about which god they are interested in or believe in... or at least something of that nature... as for having "One nation under God" in the pledge it should remain there!!!!!!!!!!! This country was founded on religion therefore that phrase deserves to be in the pledge of allegiance

[totosli_08]

 how can  you say this is not a christian country all ours laws are based on the bible if you kill you go to jail ..if you steal you got to jail ......the bible says thow shall not kill , or still ,  the dollar bill says in god we trust , the pledge of alliegence says one nation under god  .. get out of here with that you know good as well as i do that  this country is based all around christianity

[liljp617]

as for having "One nation under God" in the pledge it should remain there!!!!!!!!!!! This country was founded on religion therefore that phrase deserves to be in the pledge of allegiance

A) No it wasn't.  It was founded on secular principles with a clear, purposeful intention to keep government and religion separate.

B) It was founded upon religious freedoms and equal respect toward all religions, with a clear, purposeful intention to keep government from respecting certain religious establishments more than others.  A reference to the Christian god in the Pledge is not equal respect to all religions.

[liljp617]

how can  you say this is not a christian country all ours laws are based on the bible if you kill you go to jail ..if you steal you got to jail ......the bible says thow shall not kill , or still ,  the dollar bill says in god we trust , the pledge of alliegence says one nation under god  .. get out of here with that you know good as well as i do that  this country is based all around christianity

You really think the idea that killing and stealing are wrong originated with the Bible?  So all that time before the Bible was written and mass distributed (up to the 1600s when the printing press came into wide use), nobody even pondered the idea that it is wrong to kill or steal?  There were no laws against killing or theft before people had common access to the Bible?  There was no philosophy behind treating others with respect and having basic morals before the Bible?

It would take 30 minutes of reading a history book an ancient history to see you're incorrect.

How can I say this isn't a Christian country?  A couple reasons off the top of my head:

* Because the nation was clearly and purposefully established as a nation without an official declared religion.

* Because the nation was clearly and purposefully established as a secular nation where the government makes no biased laws in support of or against any specific religious institution

* Because there isn't a single mention of Christianity, Jesus Christ, the Christian god, or the Bible in any of the official founding documents of this nation.  

* Because this nation and its constitution are vastly different from other nations that were being founded upon Christianity in the late 1700s.  

* Because many, if not a majority, of the founders were non-Christian, or at the very least recognized the great importance of keeping religion out of government (and vice versa).

First Amendment

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof

Establishment Clause

The Establishment Clause of the First Amendment prohibits the establishment of a national religion by the Congress or the preference of one religion over another, non-religion over religion, or religion over non-religion.



And to repeat yet again:  The "In God We Trust" on money and the "Under God" in the Pledge were added in the midst of the Cold War as propaganda tools against the USSR.  They were not put in place by the founders of this nation and they were not in place until 50-60 years ago.  They are not an accurate representation of the American public, as there are great numbers of people here who have zero connection to the Christian faith -- Jews, agnostics, atheists, Muslims, Buddhists, Taoists, you name it.  They are blatantly unconstitutional acts of government respecting a specific religious establishment.

[totosli_08]

since the constitution says Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof

 if they take the bible out of school and tell people not to even so much as utter a word about god and things like that isint that prohibiting the free exercise of our religion ...

and why when people go to court they put there hand on the bible or there religious bible and they tell them to say .....i swear to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help me god .....why do they read the bible to people who are about to be executed in prison.. there is so much  reason that this coutry is based around religion its rediculous

and the whole dollar bill is based on religion even if its not christianty the eye in the triangle of the dollar bill is actuelly the eye of horus   and its used in buddisum, its also the symbol of the christianianity  in Europe ... The lowest level of the pyramid shows the year 1776 in Roman numerals. The combined implication is that the Eye, or God, favors the prosperity of the United States look it up ...

[bschumacher]

I live in L.A. where public school students of many different beliefs (or non-beliefs) attend. Even if there were not a Constitutional mandate for separation of church and state, it would be necessary to avoid religious activities to prevent quarrels and angry parents. It is the duty of a public school to provide an academic education and teach students to treat others with kindness and respect, not push religion on them. Schools have enough on their plate as it is without messing with religion. Leave that to parents.