Abortion Ban

[paints]

Okay - well I didn't expect to change your mind anyway, but hopefully gave you something to think about.

As a woman who has gone through 2 life-threatening pregnancies and several miscarriages,  I have thought it through extensively.  Up close and personal.

Hi Paints.First off i am sorry you had those experiences.

Drs are NOT always right.We all have seen they can be wrong and i have seen a few malpractices in our family over the yrs.

May i ask were the 2 pregnancies aborted?

In Gods eyes if a woman is told she must choose between her and the child the matter lies with your decision.This isnt a matter of convenience as others have argued here.Ones conscience would come into play as well.

I know Jesus said the greatest love one can have for someone is to give their life.I am sure if faced with that many may find it difficult and i guess thats why we get 2nd opinions eh?

Neither were aborted, though the choice was always there if it became necessary.  I thank God that my doctor saw me as a whole human being rather than a walking incubator. 

God gave women the responsibility of bearing children.  He doesn't require us to die in order to do so.

I am glad it worked out that way.

Im sticking to my guns how God views it and as i explained to UG.I am glad you had a good Dr.There are 2 human lives involved here <as long as twins arent involved>....Life is precious in Gods eyes period for ALL.

There is one human life and one potential life involved.  The woman is life.  Take care of her.  The contents of her uterus is not your concern. 

[paints]

The faulty logic comes in when any person other than the woman who is pregnant insists that she must stay pregnant.
Not your body, not your business.

Again, you don't seem to be getting the point that slaughtering an unborn life over convenience is what we're talking about. It's not a personal choice to allow murder, because that body is in the womb. It's still a life being taken. 

 
When the life that you can see-the woman-matters less to you than the potential life you can't, your opinion counts for less than nothing.

Are you being purposely obtuse? We've been talking about Abortion ON DEMAND. Not when the woman's life is at stake.

A human life is still at stake either way, but don't act like we haven't been clearly defining terms here.

On demand, without apology.  You don't know my life.  I am responsible to God for my choices.  Not to you, or anyone else.

[paints]

The faulty logic comes in when any person other than the woman who is pregnant insists that she must stay pregnant.
Not your body, not your business.

Again, you don't seem to be getting the point that slaughtering an unborn life over convenience is what we're talking about. It's not a personal choice to allow murder, because that body is in the womb. It's still a life being taken. 

If the uterus is not in YOUR body, you have NO say.
 

So basically, by your logic Slavery wasn't a human rights issue either.

"Those slaves are not in YOUR plantation, you have no say."

It sounds pretty much like what you're saying to me.

After the last slaves were freed, women were still property. 
The patriarchal church has tried to keep it that way. 

[Legslangevan]

Paints i know we live in a world of injustice and the rich get richer and the poor get poorer......but maybe the mom had a family or could have gotten help so they didnt freeze to death.Dont say if she aborted the baby her life would have been better.

Injustice will always continue in this satanic men run world.Jesus was the son of God and got executed unfairly.

Its NOT only woman.......its blacks,muslims,animals....need i go on?

To add a lttle humor maybe i shoulda added Republicans and Democrats also.

[UGetPaid]

You are absolutely 100% correct when you say that God doesn't require women to die in order to bear children.  I have no qualms about giving full agreement with that statement. In some cases that does unfortunately happen. But the flip side of your statement is also true.  God also doesn't require or intend that innocent babies die in order for their mothers to live a more comfortable and less stressed life which the inconvenient pregnancy would bring about as a result if brought to term. I don't suppose I could get your agreement on that opinion?

What you call "inconvenient pregnancy" can mean life or death. 
Last winter, a homeless woman and her newborn baby froze to death on a park bench. 
Should she not have been able to abort, before both lives were lost?

If the woman has no value, how much do we really care about her unborn child?

But you keep changing the parameters of the argument to suit your agenda and in the process make faulty assumptions of what I do or do not care about. I'm not able to justify my position to someone who keeps moving the goalposts.


With sincerity and unpatronizingly - may God bless you and your children, paints. I do not concede the argument to you, but I am not going to respond to your comment above which does not correlate in any way to what I said or the position I have consistently voiced.

[paints]

You are absolutely 100% correct when you say that God doesn't require women to die in order to bear children.  I have no qualms about giving full agreement with that statement. In some cases that does unfortunately happen. But the flip side of your statement is also true.  God also doesn't require or intend that innocent babies die in order for their mothers to live a more comfortable and less stressed life which the inconvenient pregnancy would bring about as a result if brought to term. I don't suppose I could get your agreement on that opinion?

What you call "inconvenient pregnancy" can mean life or death. 
Last winter, a homeless woman and her newborn baby froze to death on a park bench. 
Should she not have been able to abort, before both lives were lost?

If the woman has no value, how much do we really care about her unborn child?

But you keep changing the parameters of the argument to suit your agenda and in the process make faulty assumptions of what I do or do not care about. I'm not able to justify my position to someone who keeps moving the goalposts.


With sincerity and unpatronizingly - may God bless you and your children, paints. I do not concede the argument to you, but I am not going to respond to your comment above which does not correlate in any way to what I said or the position I have consistently voiced.

The only agenda I have is to support women in the choices they make for their own lives. 
Every child has the right to be wanted, loved and cared for. 
Support the woman.

[UGetPaid]

Every child has the right to be wanted, loved and cared for. 

But not the right to live...   

[linderlizzie]

I just want to thank Jedijohnnie and UGetPaid for taking so much heat in this debate while remaining so gentlemanly and responding so logically to all arguments, baseless ones and otherwise. 

[paints]

Every child has the right to be wanted, loved and cared for. 

But not the right to live...   

The "right to life" was part of an admonition given to midwives by a pope.
That same pope that was so concerned about unborn fetuses covered up decades of child molestation by pedophile priests.
Condoned the breaking of women's pelvic bones instead of c-sections, because the "woman should have more children."
Condoned the forced abortion of the fetuses of nuns, who had been raped by priests. 

Forgive me if I think my moral compass is at least as finely honed.

[UGetPaid]

You are forgiven.   

[Legslangevan]

The "right to life" was part of an admonition given to midwives by a pope.
That same pope that was so concerned about unborn fetuses covered up decades of child molestation by pedophile priests.
Condoned the breaking of women's pelvic bones instead of c-sections, because the "woman should have more children."
Condoned the forced abortion of the fetuses of nuns, who had been raped by priests. 

1st Corinth 5:13  SUM   PIC   XRF   DEV   STU
Verse  (Click for Chapter)
New International Version
God will judge those outside. "Expel the wicked person from among you."


RE the pope and other priests.....guess it didnt happen eh?

[paints]

You are forgiven.   

Thank you. 

[JediJohnnie]

The faulty logic comes in when any person other than the woman who is pregnant insists that she must stay pregnant.
Not your body, not your business.

Again, you don't seem to be getting the point that slaughtering an unborn life over convenience is what we're talking about. It's not a personal choice to allow murder, because that body is in the womb. It's still a life being taken. 

If the uterus is not in YOUR body, you have NO say.
 

So basically, by your logic Slavery wasn't a human rights issue either.

"Those slaves are not in YOUR plantation, you have no say."

It sounds pretty much like what you're saying to me.

After the last slaves were freed, women were still property. 
The patriarchal church has tried to keep it that way. 

Seems to me you've got an ax to grind with the Catholic Church. As someone who is not Catholic, this means nothing to me or my argument. My point is that you're not seeing the unborn as a person any more than slave owners saw their slaves as anything more than cattle.

And like slave owners, pro-abortioners don't want the problem of granting their victims humanity for the sake of convenience.

Just like it was easier to see slaves as less then human. Who wants the hassle of actually dealing with hiring workers to be paid and expect fair treatment and conditions? What an inconvenience, Right?

[JediJohnnie]

Okay - well I didn't expect to change your mind anyway, but hopefully gave you something to think about.

As a woman who has gone through 2 life-threatening pregnancies and several miscarriages,  I have thought it through extensively.  Up close and personal.

Hi Paints.First off i am sorry you had those experiences.

Drs are NOT always right.We all have seen they can be wrong and i have seen a few malpractices in our family over the yrs.

May i ask were the 2 pregnancies aborted?

In Gods eyes if a woman is told she must choose between her and the child the matter lies with your decision.This isnt a matter of convenience as others have argued here.Ones conscience would come into play as well.

I know Jesus said the greatest love one can have for someone is to give their life.I am sure if faced with that many may find it difficult and i guess thats why we get 2nd opinions eh?

Neither were aborted, though the choice was always there if it became necessary.  I thank God that my doctor saw me as a whole human being rather than a walking incubator. 

God gave women the responsibility of bearing children.  He doesn't require us to die in order to do so.

I am glad it worked out that way.

Im sticking to my guns how God views it and as i explained to UG.I am glad you had a good Dr.There are 2 human lives involved here <as long as twins arent involved>....Life is precious in Gods eyes period for ALL.

There is one human life and one potential life involved.  The woman is life.  Take care of her.  The contents of her uterus is not your concern. 

I just want to thank Jedijohnnie and UGetPaid for taking so much heat in this debate while remaining so gentlemanly and responding so logically to all arguments, baseless ones and otherwise. 

Thank you so much. I try.

[JediJohnnie]

You are absolutely 100% correct when you say that God doesn't require women to die in order to bear children.  I have no qualms about giving full agreement with that statement. In some cases that does unfortunately happen. But the flip side of your statement is also true.  God also doesn't require or intend that innocent babies die in order for their mothers to live a more comfortable and less stressed life which the inconvenient pregnancy would bring about as a result if brought to term. I don't suppose I could get your agreement on that opinion?

What you call "inconvenient pregnancy" can mean life or death. 
Last winter, a homeless woman and her newborn baby froze to death on a park bench. 
Should she not have been able to abort, before both lives were lost?

If the woman has no value, how much do we really care about her unborn child?

But you keep changing the parameters of the argument to suit your agenda and in the process make faulty assumptions of what I do or do not care about. I'm not able to justify my position to someone who keeps moving the goalposts.


With sincerity and unpatronizingly - may God bless you and your children, paints. I do not concede the argument to you, but I am not going to respond to your comment above which does not correlate in any way to what I said or the position I have consistently voiced.

The only agenda I have is to support women in the choices they make for their own lives. 
Every child has the right to be wanted, loved and cared for. 
Support the woman.

How can they be any of those things when they're not allowed LIFE?

That's the galling thing. Thinking we can choose who has the right to live and die. It's disgusting. The 'unwanted, unloved & uncared for' are still deserving of life and nobody but God has the right to take it from them.