Abortion Ban

[paints]

The abortion discussion centers around the fetus, or the unborn, rather than the woman and her right to life.
Thus reducing a woman to the status of an incubator, instead of a person with a mind and a soul.

Tell me I am not the only one to see the irony in this choice of phrasing.

Amazingly enough, a woman has a right to life.  That is not considered when fetishizing the unborn.

[UGetPaid]

The abortion discussion centers around the fetus, or the unborn, rather than the woman and her right to life.
Thus reducing a woman to the status of an incubator, instead of a person with a mind and a soul.

Tell me I am not the only one to see the irony in this choice of phrasing.

Amazingly enough, a woman has a right to life.  That is not considered when fetishizing the unborn.

One person's "right" (not to life but to avoid an inconvenience) is immediately suspended when another person is murdered absent the element of self-defense.

[linderlizzie]

The abortion discussion centers around the fetus, or the unborn, rather than the woman and her right to life.
Thus reducing a woman to the status of an incubator, instead of a person with a mind and a soul.

Tell me I am not the only one to see the irony in this choice of phrasing.

Amazingly enough, a woman has a right to life.  That is not considered when fetishizing the unborn.

Yes, a woman has a right to life. Yet very rarely is a woman's life actually at risk when carrying or delivering a baby. It's more at risk during and after an abortion, which is the not the natural way of things.

But as you state the woman has a right to life, so does her unborn baby, whose chance for survival after an abortion is in most cases nil.

I believe your terminology of "fetishizing the unborn" is not apt. I would go so far as to say it's demeaning.

If you've ever had or been expecting a baby, I think most people would agree that you will love that baby in utero until it's born. That's called "maternal love" by the mother. It's called "respect for human life" to be able to stay alive in its mother's womb until it's born. Neither of those situations exemplify "fetishizing. "

And normally the expectation would be that the parents would nurture that baby until it's grown after it's born. The fact that now it is perfectly acceptable to allow that poor baby to die after surviving an abortion when it's unable to help itself is grotesque and inhumane.

I know that many people feel it's an inconvenience and it is. Having a baby and caring for it is hard work. But it is rewarding work as is anything that is of value. As I have stated before, to do away with something as valuable as a human life for your own convenience is criminal.

Please consider this quote by Ronald Reagan: “I've noticed that everyone who is for abortion has already been born.”

[paints]

One of the flaws in the anti-abortion argument is it speaks from the Disney-fied version of childbirth.

Every pregnancy is different, and every woman is different.  And, no matter how rose-colored your glasses, pregnancy and childbirth is no easy thing. 

Bottom line, a woman has final say over her body, and her life. 

[UGetPaid]

One of the flaws in the anti-abortion argument is it speaks from the Disney-fied version of childbirth.

Every pregnancy is different, and every woman is different.  And, no matter how rose-colored your glasses, pregnancy and childbirth is no easy thing. 

So many things could be said in response to even just a few short lines...


You are basically saying - this is a scary and difficult experience for me, so I am going to kill you to avoid a scary and difficult experience for me. Not life threatening, just scary and difficult.  There are life threatening pregnancies which I do not deny, but that is not what you are saying here.


Abortion for convenience sake (which is beyond the vast majority of the procedures performed) is one of the biggest cop out, irresponsible, entitlement arguments ever presented. It is meritless and indefensible. There is no convincing argument that legitimizes killing someone due to inconvenience.

Bottom line, a woman has final say over her body, and her life. 

The fundamental flaw in this argument has always been (and will always be) once a woman becomes pregnant - there is more than just one body involved. You can spin it any which way you want, but that doesn't change the scientific and biological fact that there is a second body in the equation. A body that the woman has been entrusted with, regardless of the circumstances.

[linderlizzie]

One of the flaws in the anti-abortion argument is it speaks from the Disney-fied version of childbirth.

Every pregnancy is different, and every woman is different.  And, no matter how rose-colored your glasses, pregnancy and childbirth is no easy thing. 

So many things could be said in response to even just a few short lines...


You are basically saying - this is a scary and difficult experience for me, so I am going to kill you to avoid a scary and difficult experience for me. Not life threatening, just scary and difficult.  There are life threatening pregnancies which I do not deny, but that is not what you are saying here.


Abortion for convenience sake (which is beyond the vast majority of the procedures performed) is one of the biggest cop out, irresponsible, entitlement arguments ever presented. It is meritless and indefensible. There is no convincing argument that legitimizes killing someone due to inconvenience.

Bottom line, a woman has final say over her body, and her life. 

The fundamental flaw in this argument has always been (and will always be) once a woman becomes pregnant - there is more than just one body involved. You can spin it any which way you want, but that doesn't change the scientific and biological fact that there is a second body in the equation. A body that the woman has been entrusted with, regardless of the circumstances.

Well argued and well spoken.

[JediJohnnie]

One of the flaws in the anti-abortion argument is it speaks from the Disney-fied version of childbirth.

Every pregnancy is different, and every woman is different.  And, no matter how rose-colored your glasses, pregnancy and childbirth is no easy thing. 

Bottom line, a woman has final say over her body, and her life. 

A woman shouldn't have the say over somebody else's body- I.E the child that will be killed.

The 'her body/her choice' crap is nonsense. We tell women what they can & can't do with their bodies all the time.

Want to take illegal drugs? The Government won't let you.

Want to rent yourself out as a prostitute? The Government won't let you (in 99% of the country)

Want to engage in pedophilia? The Government won't let you (and rightly so)

So, is it so horrendous a concept that the government tell a woman that she can't murder her unborn child for the sake of convenience?

[Kimdud22]

Pro Choice. I can understand peoples feelings though and can see some instances but other than that I think a women's body is hers to make such choices.

[linderlizzie]

Pro Choice. I can understand peoples feelings though and can see some instances but other than that I think a women's body is hers to make such choices.

Her body is her choice. Her child's body does not have a choice. That's not fair to either party.

It's pretty obvious that the abortion industry never gives any inkling of what happens to women after abortions. That's why they make them leave out the back door so no one sees their pain and/or grief. And it's been shown that the emotional aftereffects are quite devastating.

And as far as the infant that was comfortably residing in utero, he/she is history. Therefore, no choice was made by the baby that was elected to die. If the baby knew what was going to happen beforehand, I think they would be surprised that mommy would do that to them through no fault of their own. Mommies should not do that.

There are many other ways to not become a mommy and it should be before conception. Not after when it's decided that another human being coming into the world is too big an inconvenience.

None of these arguments on either side is likely to convince another person that their viewpoint is wrong. This issue has been around for a very long time.

I do think it's criminal that Planned Parenthood is funded to the tune of half a billion dollars per year by our own government to slaughter innocents. There are surely better options for our tax dollars.

[paints]

One of the flaws in the anti-abortion argument is it speaks from the Disney-fied version of childbirth.

Every pregnancy is different, and every woman is different.  And, no matter how rose-colored your glasses, pregnancy and childbirth is no easy thing. 

Bottom line, a woman has final say over her body, and her life. 

A woman shouldn't have the say over somebody else's body- I.E the child that will be killed.

The 'her body/her choice' crap is nonsense. We tell women what they can & can't do with their bodies all the time.

Want to take illegal drugs? The Government won't let you.

Want to rent yourself out as a prostitute? The Government won't let you (in 99% of the country)

Want to engage in pedophilia? The Government won't let you (and rightly so)

So, is it so horrendous a concept that the government tell a woman that she can't murder her unborn child for the sake of convenience?

We made certain drugs illegal.  So now, nobody takes drugs.

We made prostitution illegal.  So now, there are no more prostitutes.

We made pedophilia illegal.  Look Ma, no more pedophiles!

Abortion is never about convenience.  Never. 

[JediJohnnie]

One of the flaws in the anti-abortion argument is it speaks from the Disney-fied version of childbirth.

Every pregnancy is different, and every woman is different.  And, no matter how rose-colored your glasses, pregnancy and childbirth is no easy thing. 

Bottom line, a woman has final say over her body, and her life. 

A woman shouldn't have the say over somebody else's body- I.E the child that will be killed.

The 'her body/her choice' crap is nonsense. We tell women what they can & can't do with their bodies all the time.

Want to take illegal drugs? The Government won't let you.

Want to rent yourself out as a prostitute? The Government won't let you (in 99% of the country)

Want to engage in pedophilia? The Government won't let you (and rightly so)

So, is it so horrendous a concept that the government tell a woman that she can't murder her unborn child for the sake of convenience?

We made certain drugs illegal.  So now, nobody takes drugs.

We made prostitution illegal.  So now, there are no more prostitutes.

We made pedophilia illegal.  Look Ma, no more pedophiles!

Abortion is never about convenience.  Never. 

And this argument is also nonsensical. As I said before (possibly in this thread) you can't dictate what's illegal on the basis of 'they'll do it anyway.'  It's an immoral treatment of a human life. And 95% of the time it IS only for the sake of convenience.

[paints]

One of the flaws in the anti-abortion argument is it speaks from the Disney-fied version of childbirth.

Every pregnancy is different, and every woman is different.  And, no matter how rose-colored your glasses, pregnancy and childbirth is no easy thing. 

Bottom line, a woman has final say over her body, and her life. 

A woman shouldn't have the say over somebody else's body- I.E the child that will be killed.

The 'her body/her choice' crap is nonsense. We tell women what they can & can't do with their bodies all the time.

Want to take illegal drugs? The Government won't let you.

Want to rent yourself out as a prostitute? The Government won't let you (in 99% of the country)

Want to engage in pedophilia? The Government won't let you (and rightly so)

So, is it so horrendous a concept that the government tell a woman that she can't murder her unborn child for the sake of convenience?

We made certain drugs illegal.  So now, nobody takes drugs.

We made prostitution illegal.  So now, there are no more prostitutes.

We made pedophilia illegal.  Look Ma, no more pedophiles!

Abortion is never about convenience.  Never. 

And this argument is also nonsensical. As I said before (possibly in this thread) you can't dictate what's illegal on the basis of 'they'll do it anyway.'  It's an immoral treatment of a human life. And 95% of the time it IS only for the sake of convenience.

It's no more nonsensical than your argument. 

Women own their bodies.  It's not up to you to approve or disapprove, only to mind your own.

95% is a made up statistic.  When you have to make up the numbers, you know it is a bogus argument.

[UGetPaid]

95% is a made up statistic.  When you have to make up the numbers, you know it is a bogus argument.

I apologize for the wonky formatting. I was trying to make it more readable, and it messed up the columns and format a bit.


It looks like JediJohnnie's number is actually pretty close since the top six or seven reasons can all be boiled down to some sort of convenience excuse/argument. Is it exactly 95% - no, obviously not... But it is much closer to that (hovering around 90-95% depending on which you consider to be convenience arguments and since you cannot really classify the 4% other - can't rule it in, but also can't fully rule it out either) and far far far far away from being a "made up" statistic to support a bogus argument.


So before you decide to disregard someone's argument by accusing them of making up numbers, maybe do a little bit of research first. Dismissing an opposing viewpoint as bogus simply because it cites to a statistic is being just as shortsighted as what you are [wrongfully] accusing JediJohnnie of (i.e. making up numbers). That is the sort of tactic people who have no convincing counter argument usually resort to.


I pulled this list from this website under the heading The vast majority of abortions are elective. But if you look at their source (cited below) you can track it back to the original source - one that is widely cited elsewhere.




 

		Why Women Choose Abortion
Inadequate finances to raise a child	21%
Not ready for responsibility	21%
Woman's life would be changed too much	16%
Problems with relationship; unmarried	12%
Too young; not mature enough	11%
Children are grown; woman has all she wants	8%
Unborn child has possible health problems	3%
Woman has health problems	3%
Pregnancy caused by rape, incest	1%
Other	4%
			(Average number of reasons given:   3.7)
			Source: Torres and Forrest, as cited by Physicians for Reproductive Choice and Health and the Alan Guttmacher Institute in An Overview of Abortion in the United States
	(October 2001)

[madeara]

Hello,
I am pro-life.  I believe the issue of abortion should be a topic between the woman and her doctor.

[JediJohnnie]

95% is a made up statistic.  When you have to make up the numbers, you know it is a bogus argument.

I apologize for the wonky formatting. I was trying to make it more readable, and it messed up the columns and format a bit.


It looks like JediJohnnie's number is actually pretty close since the top six or seven reasons can all be boiled down to some sort of convenience excuse/argument. Is it exactly 95% - no, obviously not... But it is much closer to that (hovering around 90-95% depending on which you consider to be convenience arguments and since you cannot really classify the 4% other - can't rule it in, but also can't fully rule it out either) and far far far far away from being a "made up" statistic to support a bogus argument.


So before you decide to disregard someone's argument by accusing them of making up numbers, maybe do a little bit of research first. Dismissing an opposing viewpoint as bogus simply because it cites to a statistic is being just as shortsighted as what you are [wrongfully] accusing JediJohnnie of (i.e. making up numbers). That is the sort of tactic people who have no convincing counter argument usually resort to.


I pulled this list from this website under the heading The vast majority of abortions are elective. But if you look at their source (cited below) you can track it back to the original source - one that is widely cited elsewhere.




 

		Why Women Choose Abortion
Inadequate finances to raise a child	21%
Not ready for responsibility	21%
Woman's life would be changed too much	16%
Problems with relationship; unmarried	12%
Too young; not mature enough	11%
Children are grown; woman has all she wants	8%
Unborn child has possible health problems	3%
Woman has health problems	3%
Pregnancy caused by rape, incest	1%
Other	4%
			(Average number of reasons given:   3.7)
			Source: Torres and Forrest, as cited by Physicians for Reproductive Choice and Health and the Alan Guttmacher Institute in An Overview of Abortion in the United States
	(October 2001)

Thank You.

Statistics continually show that abortions for rape & incest are BELLOW 5%. There are no bogus numbers there. The fact that we allow abortion on demand for the sake of around 5% is ludicrous.

All I'm saying is, how about we stop the wholesale slaughter of the unborn for the sake of convenience and deal with the under 5% that are victims of rape/incest on a case by case basis.