Do you belive in obama?

[leftiness]

What did he knock down?

Pardon my grammar. I meant "look how quickly President Obama is knocking it down." Capitalism isn't completely knocked down, yet.

You truly believe the economic downturn/recession started in January 2009?

I believe that socialism caused this recession. Socialist policies started with the Community Reinvestment Act passed in Jimmy Carter's time. The article I referenced says "The sub-prime mortgage collapse was caused by the failure of socialism, not capitalism. Forcing banks to give loans to people who cannot afford to pay them back is socialism, not capitalism." I agree.

You think the recession was brought on by the Obama Administration?

No, not by himself. As I said, it started with the CRA, but President Obama has had his hand in it starting as a lawyer in ACORN filing suits against banks who refused mortgages to unqualified people. He also "suppressed efforts by President George W. Bush and Republican Congressmen to investigate and rein in Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac" as a senator.

Perfectly means... perfectly. There are no hindrances. No checks. No balances. "They" in my sentence refers to the US Government, specifically the Legislative and Executive branches, both of which are under the control of the Democratic Party as of now. The President does not have untapped power to do as he wants. However, the people who would be keeping him in check (Congress) are completely on his side. There are no checks. No balances. When the entire government of the United States decides that they want to pass socialist health care... More specifically, when the President wants to pass socialist health care, and he presents this information to Congress, and the House and Senate both approve of it, or when more than two-thirds of both the House and Senate want it, even if the President does not, then socialist health care is passed. Thankfully, many of the Democratic Party are currently in the process of realizing that they don't want to be socialist.

On a side note, making this country socialist may even be constitutional, if the elected officials, including the president and congress, decide that they want it... Maybe. I think it's legal... I'll have to look it up.

The consistent reference to January bothers me. I never said January. The article I referenced never said January. The article specifically holds seven people responsible for the recession, and it details their parts in it. Please take this as politely as possible: Did you read the article? Could you find it?

We have had recessions. I understand that. However, I never mentioned it being caused by one individual, and neither did the article I referenced.

There's no real logic in talking about the state of the economy then throwing in how the government spends/borrows too much.

I feel as though there is plenty of logic in it. In the end, the people pay the government. They tax us. When the goverment spends or borrows too much, the people pay for it in taxes. Government debt is not the reason the global economy is bad. However, that does not make government debt a good thing.

Measuring prosperity in accordance to debt is not logical. We were prosperous in those times when debt was rising because the government was accumulating debt to pay for WWII and other expenses instead of taxing us. If the people aren't getting taxed to pay for the debt, then the debt does not affect the people's prosperity. It does, however, affect the prosperity of their posterity. That is to say that somebody has to pay the bill, eventually, which brings me back to the point that government debt is a bad thing.

I apologize for having mentioned foreign countries in association with our debt. That is not one of the topics I looked up, because it was a minor point in my argument. Thank you for using statistical information in your argument. However, as I said, debt is a bad thing, no matter who the debt is owed to, because, eventually, we the people need to pay for it.

As to creating money... Selling bonds, taxing, and so on are all bad for the people's prosperity. Again, we pay for the government. They tax, etc, us for money. Which brings me back to the fact that government debt is a bad thing.

I'm going to try and explain inflation, partly to myself... Humor me. Our money is "fiat." That is to say that it's worth something because our government says it is. One dollar is worth one dollar, no matter what. They can print as many dollars as they want, and one dollar is still worth one dollar. However, the issue of inflation comes into effect when foreign countries are involved. We can't just print money, or the foreign value of the dollar drops because all of our dollars in total are worth all of our commodities, including gold, etc, together. If all of our dollars are worth 5 bricks of gold, and all of Europe's euros are worth 5 bricks of gold, then we're fine. However, if we print more dollars, and they're all still worth 5 bricks of gold, each dollar is worth less euros because there are less euros worth the same amount of gold.

That said, we haven't experienced a great deal of inflation because we haven't printed money for the stimulus plan. We borrowed it. There are no extra dollars in  circulation. We simply owe a certain amount of money, with interest, to foreign countries. There will be no inflation due to the stimulus so long as we continue to borrow. However, the debt must be paid somehow. If the economy doesn't do better, and Americans don't start getting jobs so that they can pay taxes, so that the government can pay debt, the government has to pay debt another way. There must be a limit to how much money other countries will loan us before they want it back. Our government could just tax the people back into the stone age, but that's bad for the people. Every solution to government debt is bad for the people, eventually. Printing dollars is no solution, either, since we owe a certain amount of money to foreign countries... If we inflate our money to be worth .01 euros, I should think that Europe would want more dollars to be paid back in order to pay back the loan in full.

The end of your argument on inflation is perfectly agreeable. That is capitalism at its best. Hopefully, it's enough to create jobs, so that Americans have money, so that they can be taxed, so that government debt can be paid. However, with the constant and excessive spending by the current US Government, I don't see simple capitalistic solutions such as inflation increasing tourism fixing our problems.

eSine, you posted between liljp617 and me... In response to your question of my logic behind the "they knew" statement, I say that my statement was on a logical basis only. Based on the fact that they're Congress and they should have every possible piece of information on the subject on paper in front of them... or better, in their head currently known to them... I say that they know, or have access to, everything about everything when they decide what to do. Whether or not they act in the best interest of our country, whether or not they actually bothered to read the information, they know, or they should know. I apologize for the unsupported statement in my post. However, it is, again, only a logical assertion based on what should be. Perhaps they didn't know. They should have. I also apologize for not knowing who exactly "they" are. As with other minor points in my argument, I have not fully researched it. I only remember reading it somewhere. Should I be wrong in my assertion, and I mean this statement for anything I post, I would completely agree to the retraction of that statement and the removal of it as evidence in this argument.

p.s. Does anybody want to argue about the stimulus package in general? How full of nonsense it is? How it hasn't done much of any kind of "stimulating" for the economy in general? How it's nothing but paybacks to all the people who helped President Obama into office? ... I do.

[liljp617]

3.  The President does not have untapped power to do whatever he wants.  As I'm sure you're aware, there are very simple checks and balances on his powers as President.  There are a number of things the President can't do.  It would take a year to type them out here; go read the Constitution if you want a list of what the President can do.  Anything that the President/Executive Branch has the power to do is written in the Constitution; if it's not in the Constitution then it cannot be carried out legally by the Executive Branch.

This is very far from reality, but looks good on paper... Can you explain the military commissions act which takes away your right to a court trial? can you explain "free speech zones" and why you cannot express free speech OUTSIDE those zones? Can you explain the patriot act and how it allows warantless search and seizure, warantless wiretapping, indefinite inprisonment without notification or right to a lawyer? How can all these bills and laws exist and you still believe the president is bound by the Constitution? They obviously have been ignoring the Constitution before 9/11 and continue to do so to this day.  There are dozens of examples.

Key word in what was quoted being "legally."  If it's not listed in the powers of the Executive Branch in the Constitution, and an official amendment is not made to the Constitution to input that power, it's illegal action.  

Yes, they've been ignoring the Constitution for some time now, or they twist what it says, find loopholes, and fear monger to get their nonsense passed.

We've had dozens and dozens of recessions.  They're not rare.  They're part of the capitalist economic system.  And not a one, in history, has been caused by a single individual in a position of power.
I didn't say it wasn't a bad thing, I said it wasn't the problem.  As in, government debt is not the reason the global economy went down the hole.  That said, there's no real logic in talking about the state of the economy then throwing in how the government spends/borrows too much.  In reality they're not too related.

Government bailouts, flooding the market with money backed by nothing, and excessiuve spending on war, has a lot to do with the economy?  Also recessions are normal, but they used to be natural, now days they are man made with the fed setting interest rates behind closed doors... flooding the economy or taking money OUT of the economy to try and balance it manually... remember that we went along fine for well over 100 years without the federal reserve in existance, and all money backed by actual substance... soon after the federal reserve began we ended up with the great depression, and you can see the constant devaluation of the dollar ever since...

$1779.93 in the year 2001 has the same "purchase power" as $100 in the year 1913.
$113.33 in the year 1913 has the same "purchase power" as $100 in the year 1776.

That's over 125 years and only 13$ change in value... then now in less than 100 years since the FED we see a 1679.93$ change in value... that is some SERIOUS inflation and devaluation of the dollar.
The Fed sounds like a good idea to some,  but the history and statistics, the TRUTH of the matter, the FACTS, and what we have SEEN through time prove otherwise...

Everything is relative.  Our current debt relative to our GDP is at the same level it was in the 50s and 60s, some of our most prosperous economic decades (along with some obvious noteworthy achievements as a nation).  The number of recessions and economic downturns hasn't increased all that much, the severity of our recessions, on average, has not increased, and the length of our recessions has not increased.  In fact, the length and severity of our downturns/recessions since 1945 have drastically decreased.

I'm not sure what you're definition of "doing fine" you're using, but from 1776 to the ratification of the Fed (1913) there were 25 recessions/depressions/panics.  Many of which lasted quite long compared to more recent recessions and many of which are labeled severe.  Since 1913, there have been 19 recessions/depressions/panics, which based on the data, have often been less severe and lasted shorter periods of time than those prior to 1913 (minus the obvious Great Depression).

The idea that the Fed caused the Great Depression is widely disputed among economists.  It's unfair to state, as fact, that the Fed was the root cause of the Depression...there is no such fact.

Everybody was screaming about how much inflation there would be if the stimulus plan was passed.  And yet there is NONE.

are you serious? there is ALWAYS  inflation with a bailout, the money is literally printed out of thin air yes (or put into bank accounts) it is not backed by anything, this is what people are referring to when they say thin air.. it is backed by nothing but air.  The inflation is pure math and not something that is a 'theory'... this pattern goes on and on, more money flooded, the less the dollar is worse... Your parents bought gum for a penny, I myself bought it for a nickel, etc etc. The prices go up constantly? gas? food? all going up... even now I see them going up! Inflation is real... even with simple following the money flow, you see that the people who get the bailout get to spend it with no inflation... it sits in the big bank collecting interest... as they spend it and put it into circulation, it ends up in other local banks who have to pay interest, so they dont get as good of a deal when they have this money, it lost some value as they pay back interest... but then they pass on this loss to us, so we pay the interest as well, the highest amount.. and by the time we get it, the money is in circulation and prices of everything has gone up.. so we get the slim pickings of the money on the bottom of the tree, and the least value of that money we get... This is done by design so that the banks and those at the top are impacted the least by the inflation.  All this aside, the value of the dollar has been dropping steadily for a very long time, watch the EURO price rise... this isnt just the EURO rising, this is the dollar dropping...

I speak based on the data currently available.  The data currently available isn't showing increased inflation since the stimulus was passed, and certainly not the hyperinflation many people were screaming for as the legislation was going through the pipes.  There will likely be some inflation; I don't care to speculate how much.  Of course, I'm more comfortable with some inflation than I am with deflation, which is where we were heading.

Increases in the money supply causing inflation is precisely a theory -- the quantity theory of money.  A well documented theory, and one that makes sense in many respects (not so much in others).  It is still a theory, however

Moving on, again everything is relative.  You can talk about how much gum or a bottle of Coke cost 50-60 years ago, but it means nothing if you take it out of context.  The one that's often used these days is the cost of stamps -- the cost of stamps has increased 10 fold since the 50s.  That's quite an increase.  Until you look at the fact that average household income since then has increased 31% or more.

[ashleeface]

i have faith in him most people probably don't but you have to understand he has entered the white house at a very bad time so all we have to do is wit and see and i rather be optimistic

[eSineM]

the cost of stamps has increased 10 fold since the 50s.  That's quite an increase.  Until you look at the fact that average household income since then has increased 31% or more

Think about that a minute...the price of stamps has increased 10 fold? aka 1000% right? But our wages increased 31% so this makes it ok? haha

The debt of this country has continuously gone up and up since the federal reserve began its method of artificial rates and money based on nothing. This may just seem like a large number, but there will be a time to pay that bill, it cant just keep going up forever... We are already feeling the pain... The government will print trillions to keep a bank or GM going, but then they cut funding to schools, or talk about low resources and not enough money... why not just print it or add some zeros like they do for big business? because its not where they want their money...

When you talk about the recessions and depressions since 1913 you must realize these are not the same as before at all, these are artificial man made recessions that the federal reserve imposes by choosing to print more or less money. Before when money was based on real substance, yes there was recvessions, none as great as the great depression... these are natural and healthy, this is how a healthy economy works, money is constantly transferred back and forth so everyone benefits... its like a forest fire that clears out the forest, a recession brings a healthy economy as it bounces back. The problem with the fed is they manipulate the market 100% and CREATE depressions now days purely with the supply and setting interest rates.

Also you are issing the point when you try to point out that we make more money per household now and thats why its ok that prices go up... no this is not ok, this is the example of the valuie of the dollar dropping... When you have to earn more and pay more, even if your hours are the same (which they are not, as many people even work two jobs now days just to make it)  you are now using a currency worth less. Ultimately this catches up with you... You cannot just print more money and say we are richer now... other countries frown on this, so our value goes down, trade prices go up, oil prices go up etc etc. Your currency goes down.... This is why it doesnot stay relative to your paycheck.. as prices increase, often your paycheck does not... In this economy if you get a raise at all you are one lucky MFer. Yet prices will still be going up as always...

When you basically say its not legal, but they do it anyways in regards to the constitution, dont you see how ridiculous that sounds? You cannot have an illegal law... yet thats exactly what we have... so in reality you are correct, these are illegal laws that violate the cosntitution, most dont find loopholes, they directly violate... and they are put into place and executed by all... So when you say the laws are illegal, this really is not true... because those who apply the law and make things legal, are going against the constitution, making violation of the constitution in essence legal... so I agree its illegal on paper, when it comes to reality, the patriot act IS THE LAW, and the constitution does not apply to you if they choose to apply that law to you... so you can basically throw the constitution out the window at this point, as bush says "its only a goddamn peice of paper", thats exactly how they treat it, it looks good on the wall, but the words do not apply any longer in this new age of pseudo-democracy. If Obama was any sort of a man he would have stood up on day one and revoked the patriot act and military commissions act and restored at least the basics of the constitution, undo what Bush did... then start working on better things... but he is enforcing the illegal laws that Bush put into place and extending them further... just like the war...

[ahunter300]

It is not a matter of if you believe (accept as true; take to be true) but do you believe in the Obamanation - that is the nation Obama's agenda has in mind or desire for you.  If you believe the government should be responsible for you from birth to death the the Obamanation will please you.  If you believe that you are responsible for yourself, your children, your community, your nation, and your world then the Obamanation will not please you.  The Obamanation denies the Constitution of the United States of America and denies you your rights.  You decide for yourself but do not decide for me my rights.  I was born with the rights of life, liberty (freedom of choice), and the pursuit of happiness and you were to and I pledge that all have the right of life, liberty and pursuit of happiness.

Do you belive in obama

[Rastov]

If the president was a real man... he would not be taking a fricking vacation while other men fight a war. If I was there, I would truly want to end the war that people are living and dying through, so I would be sure not to rest until I get them out.. that means if they have a mission to do, I would get it carried out immediately to bring them home... or else just bring them home... I wouldnt be wasting a single day on 'vacation' while they were dying... each day I took vacation could mean more deaths, and even ONE death over my vacation wouldnt be acceptable....

He's not Eisenhower. He's not sitting around a table drawing up battle plans.
His daily involvement has nothing to do with a single U.S. casualty or lack thereof.

And if you think burning yourself out is the most effective way to operate a command position, you're wrong. That makes your entire overall effort of poorer quality.

dont tell me about burning out, there are people who are on call 24 hours a day for years haha. Then there are firemen, emergency workers etc... then there is those in the war... Think about the troops? When was their last vacation? some have been in the middle east over 4 years without a 'vacation'. You cant tell me that Obama has a more stressful job than those seeing their buddy blown away in front of them and waiting for the next letter from their wife of husband....  Obama has not even been in office a year yet!!... and your right he doesnt sit around drawing out plans, but he should be making sure those who need to be drawing out plans, are doing so! He is not called the commander and chief for no reason.. if he was "real" and about getting our family members out of the war, he would do his job, Im not asking him to burn out, Im just asking him to not take a damn vacation in the middle of a war before working even a year, while servicemen die and get no releif. Its really not a lot to ask right? He has the power to make changes, thats why he bragged about it in his campaign?!... and thats why he promised he would bring the troops home from IRAQ etc.. because he has the power right and wants 'change'? So why dont he work on that instead of going on vacation? thats a legitimate question I think... maybe he will talk about it more after the vacation is over, if he is not busy meddling in local police affairs and inviting people over for beer while the unemployment rate continues to rise, war and economy continue to get worse...

He served the Kool-aid up to the base because that's what they wanted to hear.
I said well before he was even the nominee that he wasn't going to be pulling any more troops home than Bush.
Bush and Obama are both Imperialists, deal with it.
You're not going to find anyone that either party will support who isn't. Why do you think Paul and Kucinich were branded as nutcases? Simple, neither of them believe in empire.

Obama is not pulling troops out, so he doesn't need to spend time on it. He's not drawing up any plans, period. Obama is going to have 50,000+ troops in Afghanistan the day he leaves office(in 2016).

Everything is relative.  Our current debt relative to our GDP is at the same level it was in the 50s and 60s, some of our most prosperous economic decades (along with some obvious noteworthy achievements as a nation).  The number of recessions and economic downturns hasn't increased all that much, the severity of our recessions, on average, has not increased, and the length of our recessions has not increased.  In fact, the length and severity of our downturns/recessions since 1945 have drastically decreased.

Yes, but we had GDP growing several times faster than new debt coming out of WWII. Now it's the opposite. We're going to a hit a very serious wall in about 15 years.
And the Fed can't print enough money to fix that one.

it is not a matter of if you believe (accept as true; take to be true) but do you believe in the Obamanation - that is the nation Obama's agenda has in mind or desire for you.  If you believe the government should be responsible for you from birth to death the the Obamanation will please you.  If you believe that you are responsible for yourself, your children, your community, your nation, and your world then the Obamanation will not please you.  The Obamanation denies the Constitution of the United States of America and denies you your rights.  You decide for yourself but do not decide for me my rights.  I was born with the rights of life, liberty (freedom of choice), and the pursuit of happiness and you were to and I pledge that all have the right of life, liberty and pursuit of happiness.

Do you belive in obama

I'm sorry but this is pretty much crap. The difference between Obama and McCain basically amounted to a choice between increasing the debt to pay for universal healthcare and government jobs, or increasing the debt even more to reward the GOPs rich buddies. Aside from that, no major difference.

No one in office talks about throwing out Medicare or Social Security or slicing the DoD's budget. That's about 85% of government spending there.
Both parties support "big government". The difference is that Democrats want a government about 10-15% bigger than Republicans.

[rcbrad]

It is not a matter of if you believe (accept as true; take to be true) but do you believe in the Obamanation - that is the nation Obama's agenda has in mind or desire for you.  If you believe the government should be responsible for you from birth to death the the Obamanation will please you.  If you believe that you are responsible for yourself, your children, your community, your nation, and your world then the Obamanation will not please you.  The Obamanation denies the Constitution of the United States of America and denies you your rights.  You decide for yourself but do not decide for me my rights.  I was born with the rights of life, liberty (freedom of choice), and the pursuit of happiness and you were to and I pledge that all have the right of life, liberty and pursuit of happiness.

Do you belive in obama

Obama is not and end all.  I also am not "pro" Obama.  His administration or any/the administration has been and always will be responsible for US citizens.  Individuals have been and always will be responsible for themselves, their children, community, etc.  It is not an either or proposition based on the current administration or any administration.  It always has been a mixture of both individual and government involvement.  Nothing has changed here today regarding my individual rights that I am aware of.  I am not saying that you yourself are upset/angry, but I have seen more and more people lately (online and offline) who just seem to upset themselves over nothing.  I guess many people are afraid, angry and unsure of what to believe.  Hope this adds some perspective.

[mlainez]

I have no faith in any man..but I do have faith in God! If you look at our previous presidents and the outcomes of their actions and choices, most of them were not very good at all. I am not going to say much because I do have a lot to say, but I do believe that IT WAS ABOUT TIME AMERICA TOOK A DIFFERENT ROUTE AND GAVE SOMEONE ELSE A CHANCE!

[bschumacher]

When we went to the polls in November we voted for a man not a miracle worker. People who are bashing him have not given him ample time to "fix" any of our problems. He has done what he is allowed to attempt to make things right, but many times he has been denied the opportunity! It will take much more than 7 months to right the wrongs of more than 8 years! Patients is a virtue!

I couldn't agree with you more. We elected a prudent, intelligent, pragmatic man who is doing his utmost to clean up the mess created by the idiots who so vehemently oppose his every effort to do so. These folks are so rabid that they'd rather destroy their own country than let Obama do his job. Thanks to these lizard people, we probably won't get any meaningful health care reform within our lifetime.

[kelann1027]

havent seen sh*t yet!!

[eSineM]

When we went to the polls in November we voted for a man not a miracle worker. People who are bashing him have not given him ample time to "fix" any of our problems. He has done what he is allowed to attempt to make things right, but many times he has been denied the opportunity! It will take much more than 7 months to right the wrongs of more than 8 years! Patients is a virtue!

It doesnt take any longer than a day to veto the patriot act, end of story. Ask Bush he vetoed many bills voted on even by Congress, and then threatened to keep the patriot act running strong even if congress wanted it to end, he extended it... Obama is doing the same, so he agrees with the patriot act, end of story... Your only in denial if you believe that "he needs a few more months then he will work on the patriot act" meanwhile people continue to be imprisoned without trial, tortured, and spied on illegally... but he will get to that whole freedom thing, just give him a few months to give all the big businesses their money! ha. Then maybe the patriot act... then maybe he will follow through and stop allowing the FEDS to raid state run legal medical marijuana facilities in California... the crimes are continuing, he doesnt just need to clean up the mess, he needs to NOT send more troops to afghanistan and other soil... NOT let the patriot act which is ILLEGAL continue to be enabled, the military commissions act, etc. etc.

These things dont take month to disable, Bush did it with a stroke of a pen, and so can Obama, in fact Ron Paul even promised to do it the first day! Because he knows that is a simple fact, if you look into it, most of congress felt duped as they had no time to read it, the large document was printed at 5am the morning of the intial vote! Obama when he first joined office removed Bush's ridiculous  bill prohibiting stem cell research much to the delite of many... I agree with that move, why did it stop there? probably because that decision was costing the medical industry a fortune, Obama helped the medical industry out greatly (and those who may benefit from the work), a stroke of the pen in his first week and it was done.... Patriot continues 7 months later... war continues to only get worse, no real strategy visible,  still no "exit plan" only empty promises... this is the reality, and its pure fantasy to live thinking "he just hasnt had time yet! give him time! " hehe

He had so much time... he had time to invite that police officer and professor over for beer and get his hands dirty with some local politics (and was demanded to apologize)
He had so much time.... he took a goddamn vacation already! WTF!

but no worries, he will get to that other freedom stuff after vaction, and beer, and working to socialize every program in the US, oh yeah right after those monkeys fly out of his butt

[crimsonblue]

I believe he is trying to take away our second ammendment rights... thats about all I "believe" in him...

[rolson2]

He seems like a nice guy. He seems determined. I just dont know how cut out he is to be president. If you look up everything hes done since hes been president almost all of it I personally thought were bad decisions. From the stimulus to the health care bill yada yada. I do think theres still a possibility he can turn it around but I think hes much more of a talker than anything.

[leftiness]

Think about that a minute...the price of stamps has increased 10 fold? aka 1000% right? But our wages increased 31% so this makes it ok? haha ... as prices increase, often your paycheck does not

... Seconded.

The difference is that Democrats want a government about 10-15% bigger than Republicans.

... And, currently, the Democrats want socialism. I respect a liberal capitalist, though I may disagree on points. I am not ready for the government to control my life because "They don't know any better." Regretably, I can't remember the politician who said this.

IT WAS ABOUT TIME AMERICA TOOK A DIFFERENT ROUTE AND GAVE SOMEONE ELSE A CHANCE!

In the past 20 years, the republican party has had one more term than the democratic party.

I am not going to say much because I do have a lot to say

I'd like to hear your opinion.

When we went to the polls in November we voted for a man not a miracle worker.

I think this is incorrect.

Under my plan, no family making less than $250,000 a year will see any form of tax increase. Not your income tax, not your payroll tax, not your capital gains taxes, not any of your taxes.

He said that in Dover on September 12.

The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as a tax imposed by this chapter

Page 203 of the House Health Care Bill.

... I could go on with broken promises, but it doesn't help my point: We voted for a man disguised as a miracle worker.

I couldn't agree with you more. We elected a prudent, intelligent, pragmatic man who is doing his utmost to clean up the mess created by the idiots who so vehemently oppose his every effort to do so. These folks are so rabid that they'd rather destroy their own country than let Obama do his job. Thanks to these lizard people, we probably won't get any meaningful health care reform within our lifetime.

First, if nobody opposed the current government, then there would be no system of checks and balances. That makes us more of a dictatorship than a democracy. Personally, I feel as though there aren't many checks and balances in our governmental system right now because the Executive and Legislative branches are both mostly of the democratic party. Second, I vehemently oppose many of President Obama's decisions. If I had a choice between staying capitalist and changing to socialist, I would rather stay capitalist. Wanting to stay one way and not change is not destroying the country. It does not make me rabid. It is President Obama's job to serve the people. It is the people's job to tell him if they don't want what he proposes. If the people say no, they are not destroying their country. It is our job as a democratic society to oppose what we do not believe in. I am a capitalist. I do not support socialist policies, which include the current health care proposal. Therefore, it is my duty as a citizen to oppose it. This coming from a lizard man who would prefer if you kept your arguments more argument and less flame.

It doesnt take any longer than a day

Agreed! All this about President Obama "not being given a chance" is ridiculous...

Nobody said anything about what I said at the top of this page.

[EvelynnAzelja]

I absolutely HATE Obama, especially as a president.

I DON'T want to become a socialist country.

I DON'T want a national healthcare program.

That and I'm willing to stand up and say most (Not all.) African Americans voted for him because he is black. It's one thing to know what he stands for and to vote for him. (I can respect that, everyone is entitled to their own beliefs.) However the people who say "OH yeah, Obama is an amazing president." and I ask them if they know anything about what he actually does and they don't.

THAT IS WHAT DISAPPOINTS ME.

America is falling because of it's own ignorance.

Okay. ^_^ I'm done rambling now.