Why Do People Keep Thinking that Jesus Was Better than Any Other Human?

[JediJohnnie]

it would help the conversation if you explained your unique view of Christianity.

Like Kenneth Copeland says, "I don't believe in 'religion,' I BELIEVE IN GOD!" "Christianity" is not God, it is a tool for serving God! Sort of a 'tuning fork' for the choirs of the children of God (Scripture being the music/lyric-sheets)

I don't necessarily disagree with that.I'm non denominational,myself.I would take issue with a lot of Mr Copeland's teachings,however.

 

I do believe Jesus is the Son of God, but I don't believe He's the only Son. (Sure, the Bible says He is; but HE says we're His brothers-&-sisters!)

Paul also says that we're children of God,but it's important to remember it's through adoption.Check out Romans 8:14-17
 For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God. The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship.And by him we cry, “Abba, Father.”  The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.

No one else was begotten of the Father John 3:16
 For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.

So I can only guess that you don't believe in the virgin birth,which means the Bible is in error.And if the Bible is in error,it's not God's Word.And if it's not God's Word,why are you reading it?

I don't deny His virgin-birth, just like I don't deny yours or mine or anyone else's.

Are you saying we all have a "virgin birth?"

As for the "being adopted"-bit, that's one reason I hold the epistles as lesser-than the Gospels & the Old Testament ... they sort of like those sales-letters (the ones that promise big bucks if you send in money).

Then I take it you don't believe in the Trinity.God inspired ALL of Scripture through the Holy Spirit.You can't simply pick and choose what you believe is "important" in the Word of God.

I remember when Jesus said that God could 'raise up children of Abraham out of the stones on the ground.' Would they only be Abraham's children "by adoption?"

[/quote]
Yes,since they weren't conceived from Abraham. Again,you are failing to understand the spiritual aspect of the faith as Nicodemus did.
 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.”

 “How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”

I'm not sure where you got points C & D ... I think He DID do miracles, but not exactly 'of His own power.'

Well,this vague reply you gave:

Pshh ... yeah, a rabbit out of a hat!... 

....didn't exactly inspire confidence.

I admit that one might take a little meditation. I think of the scene from Family Guy where Jesus is standing before His followers doing super-obvious sleight-of-hand.

If you believe Jesus did His miracles via slight of hand,you can't possibly believe He's the Savior.Again,why study the Bible if you don't except what it teaches?You might as well take up The Odyssey.I hear it's good.

And I KNOW God does plenty of 'evil!' Oh, it's never "evil" in the end (it's necessary, like the forge's fire). But it is if you can't change sides---for example, homosexuality is evil. But they try to use the rumor that you're BORN homo- or hetero-, and they reason (promoting that lie as truth) that 'God made the homo's that way.' So God is Evil if you believe the lie.

I don't  believe people are "born homosexual" either,(but even if they were,it doesn't excuse them acting on the urge) but God didn't "create" evil.He created the possibility of evil existing by giving His creations Free Will.But that's a far cry from "designing" evil.

So you don't believe ALL THINGS are created by God?

Again,God created the potential for evil by giving Man Free Will.So it's not really a yes or no question.

Think of it this way:If you had a son that turned into a mass murderer,did you CREATE evil?

[hitch0403]

Also again,Abraham asked God RE Sodom,Is the true God of the universe going to sweep away the righteous with the wicked"?

God allowed Abraham to find righteous people.....he didn't.We know result.

What I think happens here with mans standards is,sexual perversions to many people are OK and they were not to Jehovah.This is the battle deciding what is good and bad as in Eden.

Its Jehovahs universe and he created us...HE gets to decide the rules eventually when Gods kingdom is government on earth as it is in heaven.We aren't forced to accept it now...but are lives must be in subjection to it if we wanna live in Gods government.

Bible says let your yes mean yes and your no mean no.

[Falconer02]

coner this i have explained to you also.You dont seem to grasp it.

I do understand it, but (no offense) traditionally you tend to act like you're insulted or insecure when the moral problem shines through or inconsistencies pop up.

If Jehovah always knew the future it would mean He had NO control of that.He is in complete control.HE can choose when to look ahead or NOT.It wouldnt be fair to HIS creation if HE abused that power.

If HE knew A&E were already going to sin why would HE bother warning them of consequence of rebellion?

So again...HE can choose when to look ahead or NOT...why is that so hard to understand?Its like a woman with a good voice...she can choose WHEN to sing or NOT.

Well if the woman knows that singing will potentially help prevent a major atrocity but refuses to do it, that woman is a malevolent person. I'm sure you'd agree with that, correct?

What you're saying here is that your god switches off his ultimate power of knowing everything, he knows he created potential problems that his creations may run into, then gets mad when bad things happen and punishes them.  Such qualities are immoral and imperfect. How is this not ignorant and malevolent behavior?

Mankind took himself away from Gods protection by rebelling.His allowance of wickedness among other things have proven disobedience has resulted in this.Yet many want to continue to BLAME God.

Well if you can justify the malevolent behavior from my previous response, this belief would start making a little sense. The problem isn't with the imperfect beings here- it's with a being who says he's perfect yet shows major faults. You seem to only want to see it from one side and refuse to question the other.

Why don't some of you just fess up to the fact you NEVER wanted to be accountable to his laws to begin with?Instead of challenging HIM!!

I'm not accountable to the laws of fictional beings and neither are you. If you can state rational and logical proof of this god's existence, we may get to common ground. However every human reserves the right to challenge/question or blindly follow what they wish.

[hitch0403]

You see Falconer that's why its a waste of time discussing this with you when in your last post you mention "fictional God"

Now I know you will answer,"show me proof God exists"...and BOOM!Back to sq 1 with you.

So its like almost getting to the mountain top with you and before you know it...whered that piece of ice come from that I slipped on and I fell back down to the bottom.

I have done my best with all here to explain.Believe me,i know more don't care than do.I am not upset.When you believe God exists you don't approve how hes handled things.Then you say hes fictional till otherwise.

WHEW!!!

[hitch0403]

Fictional God???

His invisible qualities are clearly seen from the world’s creation onward, because they are perceived by the things made.” (Romans 1:20) With those words in mind, take a close look at the human body, the earth, the vast universe, the ocean depths. Examine the fascinating world of insects, of plants, of animals—whatever field interests you. Then, using your “power of reason,” ask yourself, ‘What convinces me that there is a Creator?’

[JediJohnnie]

Typical Falconer conversation:

Falconer: "How can you explain the "evil" things God has done in the bible?I honestly want to know what you think about these verses......."

Christian gives biblical answer on the nature of God

Falconer: "That doesn't matter when God is a fictional character!"

And so you see the futility of trying to discuss the bible with Falconer.He wants God to materialize right in front of him and sign a deceleration in front of a notary public before entertaining God's existence.

Better to feed some bread to the ducks than cast pearls to swine.

[Falconer02]

You see Falconer that's why its a waste of time discussing this with you when in your last post you mention "fictional God"

Not necessarily. I want to know how religious people justify their beliefs in these stories and justify that their god is good (not a biblical answer, but your own personal moral answer to justify the atrocities). It's much like other works- some people take different things out of stories, but if something isn't adding up, they can ask questions.

Also, someone who thinks a story is real and another person who thinks it's fake can still have a conversation about the nature of the characters within it. You exclaimed that he was real and that I was "challenging him", but I wanted to remind you that most people who don't believe in this god aren't 'challenging' him because there's nothing to challenge. They're questioning the beliefs of the believers and trying to make sense of certain things.

With those words in mind, take a close look at the human body, the earth, the vast universe, the ocean depths. Examine the fascinating world of insects, of plants, of animals—whatever field interests you. Then, using your “power of reason,” ask yourself, ‘What convinces me that there is a Creator?’

And that's an interesting take on it.  However your view seems narrow on this- there's a huge gap between "There might be a god/gods out there!" and "This one angry god in this ancient book written by ancient people is the REAL god and I know it to be true!". If you believe this god exists, then prove it. If you can't, we can just stay on the original subject and not discuss that aspect.

When you believe God exists you don't approve how hes handled things.

Then you don't have an answer for the type of immoral behavior we were discussing? That's perfectly alright if you don't! Like I said- I'm just discussing to see if you had some rational/logical answers.

[Falconer02]

Typical Falconer conversation:

Falconer: "How can you explain the "evil" things God has done in the bible?I honestly want to know what you think about these verses......."

Christian gives biblical answer on the nature of God

Falconer: "That doesn't matter when God is a fictional character!"

Your rude and insecure behavior (lashing out and not staying on topic) is interesting as always, however this is a lie and it's not what is being discussed. Just read my previous post as it answers what's being discussed.

[hitch0403]

First off....i had a chuckle with JJs notary republic advice!!

So Falconer,because the God of the bible didnt react to  certain things like,world wars,famines,sickness etc you call him evil?

Again you are familiar with the rebellion in Eden and The book of Job what Satan claimed?

Also are familiar with the Ninevites?Jehovah told Jonah to tell them to repent or they would be punished.They did.God being long suffereing to human sin doesnt matter to you.Also He allows HIS son to be treated and killed and that means nothing to you?

Human suffering doesnt come from God.Yes HE could stop it and in his due time will but because HE doesnt react fast enuff for you HES evil....LOL!

For someone who lives forever this has only been going on for a few days.Dont measure mans timetable with his.

So when you wanna believe God exists it comes down to you dont like the way HE does things.All the love,justice,forgivness,long suffering etc in bible goes OUT the window cos God didnt stop the Vietnam War...<as an example of what u think> Mans political greed starts it and cos God doesnt intervene YET....hes evil!!!LOL!!

Put that Notary republic on hold!!

[Falconer02]

So Falconer,because the God of the bible didnt react to  certain things like,world wars,famines,sickness etc you call him evil?

We're talking about malevolent behavior, so I guess this is correct. However I was concentrating on specific origin stories and not any man-made problem. You seem to keep diving into that to avoid my questions.

Again you are familiar with the rebellion in Eden and The book of Job what Satan claimed?

I know where you're going with this, but this isn't really what we're talking about. We're talking about moral problems within a god and how a religious person would personally approach and explain the harsh behavior w/o the use of faulty and convenient biblical claims.

Human suffering doesnt come from God.Yes HE could stop it and in his due time will but because HE doesnt react fast enuff for you HES evil....LOL!

Have you read anything I've posted? Because you're rewriting what I've stated now.

So when you wanna believe God exists it comes down to you dont like the way HE does things.All the love,justice,forgivness,long suffering etc in bible goes OUT the window cos God didnt stop the Vietnam War...<as an example of what u think> Mans political greed starts it and cos God doesnt intervene YET....hes evil!!!LOL!!

I'm not sure why you find this humorous? You've gone off the rails here and aren't staying on the subject. I'm not talking about any of this. Your tu quoque and strawman fallacies are apparent since you're avoiding my questions now and attempting to make me look like the bad guy by making things up, even though I'm just asking a few technical questions.

[hitch0403]

Falconer..i wanna bring this up too,maybe it will help you understand me....

When a major catastrophe happens like last year in Newtown where 20 kids and and 6 adults are killed by a <in my mind a demonic madman>...yes....i asked God,"when is enuff enuff>?And before you know,something else happens again...and yes..again i ask...when is enuff enuff> Sometimes knowing the truth isnt enuff...you need Jehovahs spirit to comfort you and strengthen you.The bible tells us if we love HIM and obey him he will give us "power beyond what is normal"

Jesus was in so much agony even he cried out "my God why have you forsaken me"Long suffering is fruitage of Gods spirit and a quality we all need and certainly something this satanic system lack.

Using discerment to understand why God has allowed wickedness to prevail isnt easy even if you know why.We need to have faith that Gods way is better than ours and depend on HIM to help us when we are weak or dont understand.Taking baby steps helps.And good association and study help too.Then using that knowledge in our lives.

[Falconer02]

When a major catastrophe happens like last year in Newtown where 20 kids and and 6 adults are killed by a <in my mind a demonic madman>...yes....i asked God,"when is enuff enuff>?And before you know,something else happens again...and yes..again i ask...when is enuff enuff> Sometimes knowing the truth isnt enuff...you need Jehovahs spirit to comfort you and strengthen you.The bible tells us if we love HIM and obey him he will give us "power beyond what is normal"

Well if that helps you cope with it, I'm glad.

Using discerment to understand why God has allowed wickedness to prevail isnt easy even if you know why.We need to have faith that Gods way is better than ours and depend on HIM to help us when we are weak or dont understand.Taking baby steps helps.And good association and study help too.Then using that knowledge in our lives.

So you're saying you don't have a logical or rational answer as to why you believe this god deserves worship (besides the feel-good aspect), but you're just ignoring the immoral conundrums and concentrating on the good feelings?

[hitch0403]

I am glad to be alive.I dont wanna die.Death is an enemy of man.

Read Rev 4:11

Even if i question Jehovah.....i know in the long haul obeying HIM is for the benefit of us if we want to live.I am human i realize and also a sinner.Leaning on our own understanding doesnt benefit us....To earthling man his way does not belong says scripture in Jeremiah.

[JediJohnnie]

If God were to rip each and every shred of evil from this world,Falconer,you wouldn't be here.

And guess what?Neither would I,or every living being on the planet.I don't know why Free Will is such a difficult concept for some.

Mull over this parable from Jesus: Matt 13:24-43
 Jesus told them another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field.  But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away.  When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.

 “The owner’s servants came to him and said, ‘Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?’
 “‘An enemy did this,’ he replied.

“The servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’
 “‘No,’ he answered, ‘because while you are pulling the weeds, you may uproot the wheat with them.  Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’”

 Then he left the crowd and went into the house. His disciples came to him and said, “Explain to us the parable of the weeds in the field.”

 He answered, “The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man.  The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the people of the kingdom. The weeds are the people of the evil one,  and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels.

 “As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.  Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Whoever has ears, let them hear.

[mythociate]

it would help the conversation if you explained your unique view of Christianity.

Like Kenneth Copeland says, "I don't believe in 'religion,' I BELIEVE IN GOD!" "Christianity" is not God, it is a tool for serving God! Sort of a 'tuning fork' for the choirs of the children of God (Scripture being the music/lyric-sheets)

I don't necessarily disagree with that.I'm non denominational,myself.I would take issue with a lot of Mr Copeland's teachings,however.

Right, the whole Prosperity Gospel thing. Profitable, but with the risk of falling into worship OF prosperity ... we can start a whole `nother topic!

 

I do believe Jesus is the Son of God, but I don't believe He's the only Son. (Sure, the Bible says He is; but HE says we're His brothers-&-sisters!)

Paul also says that we're children of God,but it's important to remember it's through adoption.Check out Romans 8:14-17
 For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God. The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship.And by him we cry, “Abba, Father.”  The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.

No one else was begotten of the Father John 3:16
 For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.

So I can only guess that you don't believe in the virgin birth,which means the Bible is in error.And if the Bible is in error,it's not God's Word.And if it's not God's Word,why are you reading it?

I don't deny His virgin-birth, just like I don't deny yours or mine or anyone else's.

Are you saying we all have a "virgin birth?"[/quote]

You're saying we all must be 'born again.' What shameful act brings about THAT birth?

As for the "being adopted"-bit, that's one reason I hold the epistles as lesser-than the Gospels & the Old Testament ... they sort of like those sales-letters (the ones that promise big bucks if you send in money).

Then I take it you don't believe in the Trinity.

LOL ... you could say the 'trinity' is one of the very reasons I hold that the Bible is UNWORTHY of 'the Word of God'---Jesus originally said baptism was only in 'His name'; a priest named Tertullian submitted that He 'should've said' "the Father, Son & Holy Ghost," & some Vatican council made that change.

I admit that one might take a little meditation. I think of the scene from Family Guy where Jesus is standing before His followers doing super-obvious sleight-of-hand.

If you believe Jesus did His miracles via slight of hand,you can't possibly believe He's the Savior.

Mweeh? That's like saying 'you can't possibly believe sex causes birth if you believe *bleep* makes money'!

If you had a son that turned into a mass murderer,did you CREATE evil? [/b]

That's getting into some 'Alice Miller'-stuff! She believes that parents raise bad children because they weren't themselves 'acknowledged properly' when they were children (because THEIR parents didn't acknowledge THEM, because THEIR parents didn't acknowledge them ... I guess we could go back to 'Adam not acknowledged by God' )

Falconer: "How can you explain the "evil" things God has done in the bible?I honestly want to know what you think about these verses......."

Christian gives biblical answer on the nature of God

Falconer: "That doesn't matter when God is a fictional character!"

And so you see the futility of trying to discuss the bible with Falconer.

This shows the reason-why some will never understand: Many claim that we serve a reasonable God, but then people can show how He is totally unreasonable in some cases. But 'children can understand,' because to them 'fictional characters' are just as real as non-fictional (both are unpredictable people who can DO ... THINGS)