I personally believe that much of this boils down to the concept of "faith" and "trust." Romans 10:17 says, “Faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ." Hebrews 11:6 says, "And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him." In other words, faith is trusting in someone or something - in this scenario, Christ - acting on God's Word, and not acting on our personal perceptions on the matter.
I see, but if this were true, everyone who ever wholeheartedly prayed to your god for help/guidance/etc. would have received a 'reward'. This is not the case though since there are faith-oriented people out there that have died praying or are in horrible pain or simply aren't getting what they want/deserve. Therefore any success story is based on personal perception since the 'success stories' are cherry picked. This is not my personal take on the matter since the evidence shows nothing happens.
As you know yourself, there is a difference between believing what we know to be true, and what we perceive to be true. Many people can't perceive the truth about God, because they don't experience the trust and faith in God that believers do. It also takes time to build the trust and faith in someone or something. It would be difficult to believe in or trust a stranger. With a believer, the trust has been slowly gained, over time, through experiences, through answers to prayer or situations, to the point of the believer knowing deep down, with confidence and trust, that their faith is indeed real and Christ is indeed real.
Again, personal interpretations of a matter are not proofs. Saying one is slowly gaining answers and building up trust in a stranger nobody has ever seen is delusional (and possible schizophrenic) behavior.
There are many gods. God does say in His Word, that we (believers, that is) are to worship Him, and that He is a jealous God. There are many religions. Believers don't worship a religion - they worship God. In my case, personally, I am a Christian, a believer in Christ, and Christianity is a "faith-based" religion. As a believer, I have God's Word, the Bible, as a testimony for the grounding of my faith in God. Then there is the fulfilling of the prophecy of Christ's birth, death, burial, and resurrection, and through Him and His sacrifice, a believer, such as myself, places faith and trust in Christ, for God's gift of salvation.
So you admit that other gods exist besides your own?
Back to the perception of truth and/or reality - because some people cannot "see" God or Christ, literally, the struggle with faith/trust enters the picture. There again, as already mentioned above, it's understandable the struggle with faith/trust when the someone/something can't be seen literally. Also, again, that's where spending time with the someone/something, researching, asking questions, answering, studying, praying, having prayers answered, situations helped or changed, and so many other evidences of truth happening in the believer's life, then faith is established and built more concretely.
Again, if it were true and one did all these things, that would consitute as empirical proof that praying to your god works. However it's the contrary because you can do all of the things you listed to ...lets say... Super Mario and get the same results if you're a fan of his. It's not the prayer being answered by some mystical supernatural force. It's the person's own will power that sparks change.
t's kind of like stepping out of our comfort zone or outside of the box to go beyond just "seeing" the literal truth, but also being able to perceive and know the truth, through faith, confidence, and trust. And once again, as we both know, the circle starts all over again, because of the conflict between faith and seeing/not seeing. And we carry on...
You can say this exact thing about The Matrix existing, but w/o any evidence besides "you must become blind", you don't have an argument to hold up.
No one receives a "reward" for every situation they pray for and about. I don't know where that comes from nor why you would think that.
You bring up Mario and The Matrix, however, those 2 aren't up for debate on being "God" and being worshiped, and have no comparison with God. Neither do Santa Claus and The Easter Bunny, etc. Some children are encouraged to believe in them as children, and when older, are either told the truth or they figure it out. It's sort of like a "magical" part of childhood, including fun and excitement of certain holidays.
On the other hand, God is who is up for the debate with being real or not. I've already mentioned there are reasons, testimonies, situations that happened, God's Word, historical situations, and more, that prove to some people that God is real and so they place their faith in Him. No one else has to believe them or agree with them, but they shouldn't be intimidated or belittled for believing something they know or perceive to be the truth for them. There are others who do not agree with that, and choose to ignore or disbelieve any idea of God or accepting God. Again, no one else has to agree with their disbelief. What's wonderful in our country, is that both sides are guaranteed the freedom to worship or not worship God, or whatever/whoever they choose to believe in, under our Constitution.
The biggest problem people have is that on one side, some feel that some believers want to force everyone to believe as them. While a few are over-zealous with that, most just follow what God's Word says to do - introduce Christ, and then it's up to the other person or not to accept or not accept Christ. And when anything bad happens, then believers, as a whole, are looked down on and held accountable for the over-zealous ones and/or the ones who commit wrong against others.
Then there's the other side. Some disbelievers tend to get over-zealous, as well, and attempt to coerce believers to give up believing in God, or some try to make believers appear schizo, delusional, or otherwise, for believing in God. Yet, the Constitution protects both sides, and some people on both sides tend to forget this when coming down on others for their personal choice.
Whatever happens when death takes someone is a matter of debate. Those who have passed on are the only definite ones who know exactly what happens after death; or for some, there are others who say no one knows exactly what happens after death. Why the big concern for others if they believe there is heaven or hell after death? If some want nothing to do with God or the idea of God, then that's their personal choice. They will either find out or never know what happens after death. For those who believe in God, and have learned from God's Word, from past situations (during Biblical times; those who suffered through the plagues and/or died; those who experienced the 'presence' of God, through the burning bush, angels, etc.) and evidences they may have experienced or seen for themselves, then who is anyone else to try and tell them otherwise that there is nothing after death?
Believers shouldn't have to cower in fear and intimidation from others who don't agree with their choice of worshiping God. And likewise, others who deny God exists, shouldn't have to cower because believers don't agree with their choice. It comes down to personal choice, free will, freedom (under the Constitution,) and the concept of faith, trust, confidence, and hope. In today's society, more people, on both sides of the issue, are tending to mind other peoples' business when it comes to an individual's personal choice of believing or disbelieving. Everyone is personally responsible and accountable for their own decisions and choices - period.
Community Forum
Topic: The real actual totally 100% legitimate truth about prayer. (Read 11311 times)
May 20, 2010, 06:04:39 pm
