The real actual totally 100% legitimate truth about prayer.

[jcribb16]

To make sure you aren't just judging something you don't know anything about

Fair enough.

My God is real, whether you say so or not.  Just because you say my God is not real, does not make your opinion the law of the land. 

Believe what you want to believe! Flackle and I never stated that people MUST think the way we do. We're just stating the obvious. The logical and rational conclusion will continue to say that this god and the practices are both fake.

That's fine - your "obvious" is what you go by and with.  That is not my "obvious" that I go by.  While yours is logical and rational to you, mine is to me.  It doesn't matter whether you agree with my "illogical/irrational" way of your seeing my belief - it's not your choice to make for me.  You apparently live by your choice just fine; as do I by mine.

[Falconer02]

That's fine - your "obvious" is what you go by and with.  That is not my "obvious" that I go by.

We do not have a similar frame of reference due to me understanding and accepting the reality of this specific issue and you clinging to ancient/superstitious/outdated reasonings and stating them as reality. I'd like to recall the santa clause example for reference.

While yours is logical and rational to you, mine is to me.

The pathways you use within this subject are illogical and go against the actual terminology of the words "logical" and "rational" here. To say otherwise would be inventing new terms for individual use.

It doesn't matter whether you agree with my "illogical/irrational" way of your seeing my belief - it's not your choice to make for me.  You apparently live by your choice just fine; as do I by mine.

Again, I already stated this. If you wish to set your reality within fallacious reasonings, go ahead!

[Nancy5]

This just goes to show what a great country this is.  We can discuss/fight/argue over whether there is a God or not.  We are allowed to believe or not.  I believe in God, not because I'm forced to, but because I choose to.  I look around and see all the wonderful things He has created, the trees, the flowers, the animals, and yes, you and me.  In my heart I know there is a God and he loves ALL of us (even you, you who have rejected him).  It is your right to not believe and I respect your beliefs, all I ask is you respect my beliefs also.

[sigmapi1501]

You are entitled to your own opinion but NOT your own facts.

[showard60]

I beleive in God and prayer! God is Real and I love Him.

[Falconer02]

You are entitled to your own opinion but NOT your own facts.

Thank you for summing up my previous overly-worded post!

This just goes to show what a great country this is.  We can discuss/fight/argue over whether there is a God or not.  We are allowed to believe or not.

Agreed.

It is your right to not believe and I respect your beliefs, all I ask is you respect my beliefs also.

Asking people to respecting things that are not worthy of respect is what gets this country in trouble. That god you say you know in your heart exists and he loves us all? He condones slavery and human sacrifice. He has committed genocide. If you're christian, I highly recommend looking in to the atrocities and the crimes against humanity created by your beliefs. The word "tolerate" makes a whole lot more sense than the word "respect" here.

[Nancy5]

We can discuss this until the end of time.  You have your beliefs and I have mine.  I will RESPECT (not tolerate) yours, and I ask the same of you. 

[march1971]

I'd like to start off by saying that your god isn't real. Sorry.

With the massive influx of prayer-related threads as of late, I thought it would be most prudent to just make a thread to cover my overall dissenting viewpoint.

Praying doesn't solve anything. Praying is simply giving yourself false hope when you should in fact have real hope as a result of actually doing something to help a given situation. Don't pray that we may find a cure for cancer when you can take that same effort and fund raise for charity. Prayer has been shown to cause no affect to the outcome of an event. Prayer's effects, no matter how massive the number of people are involved, has never been scientifically shown to make a significant differences in the outcome of an event. You could argue its because god deems it so, (which is a very popular scapegoat used) but this argument is one that hurts prayer the most.

If god (assuming such a deity exist, and is in fact the god of the christian bible) is going to do whatever he/she/it wants too regardless of prayer, then what is the point of prayer exactly? I suppose you could say the whole point is just to "connect" to god (I wont get into the specifics of that argument as I'll just be going back to my previous statement that god isn't real). Just remember, though, if you believe that prayer is only used to connect to your god, then you must also be insulted by the influx of threads, posts, and the general ideology that's telling others that they can pray their problems away.

If you want to pray in your own house to make yourself feel better, that's fine. I don't support this action, but I'll leave you alone to do as you wish. When you start to tell others to pray instead of (or when they can be doing) doing something actually useful, then it becomes a problem and it needs to stop.

I have one word that pretty much says what it means: whatever! case closed!

[msmoneybags48]

You really believe that hogwash you just got through spewing?  If it weren't for God, you wouldn't be here.  While you are perfectly entitled to your opinion, I believe if anyone needs prayer, you do.  My question is, what did God do for you to put that out?  I know that God is an ever-loving presence in my life, and maybe He didn't answer your prayer in a timely fashion, but He is right on time.

[jcribb16]

This just goes to show what a great country this is.  We can discuss/fight/argue over whether there is a God or not.  We are allowed to believe or not.  I believe in God, not because I'm forced to, but because I choose to.  I look around and see all the wonderful things He has created, the trees, the flowers, the animals, and yes, you and me.  In my heart I know there is a God and he loves ALL of us (even you, you who have rejected him).  It is your right to not believe and I respect your beliefs, all I ask is you respect my beliefs also.

Thank you for saying that so well.  Some give respect back and forth, and that's what it's all about.  It's sad when some claim to give respect, but really don't, by the comments implied towards irrationality and being illogical, when claiming to know the Lord.  Our decisions in our personal lives do not affect others' choices in here, yet there seems to be great concern to point out irrationality - thereby showing a bit of their own irrationality in being overly-concerned about what someone chooses to believe (in their own personal lives.)

[jcribb16]

You are entitled to your own opinion but NOT your own facts.

Thank you for summing up my previous overly-worded post!

This just goes to show what a great country this is.  We can discuss/fight/argue over whether there is a God or not.  We are allowed to believe or not.

Agreed.

It is your right to not believe and I respect your beliefs, all I ask is you respect my beliefs also.

Asking people to respecting things that are not worthy of respect is what gets this country in trouble. That god you say you know in your heart exists and he loves us all? He condones slavery and human sacrifice. He has committed genocide. If you're christian, I highly recommend looking in to the atrocities and the crimes against humanity created by your beliefs. The word "tolerate" makes a whole lot more sense than the word "respect" here.

Once again, throwing out there misleading information, without including the facts of the situations at hand, including the reasons, background of, events leading up to and beyond, disobedience/obedience of others, etc. 

If you believe there is no God, then you do not believe any of the spouted mistruths you are putting out here.  This means, in actuality, lies are being spread about something you don't believe in or about, which mean those "lies" never took place, according to your interpretation of thinking. 

Researching the history of the events, understanding the facts and information, what happened, and why it happened, is preferable to just spouting half-lies and half-truths about something you know nothing about and claim to disbelieve.  Contradicting yourself gets you nowhere.

[jcribb16]

We can discuss this until the end of time.  You have your beliefs and I have mine.  I will RESPECT (not tolerate) yours, and I ask the same of you. 

Exactly!  Some have a difficult time understanding that concept, though.  Yet, many times, believers are the ones being accused of coercing or pushing their beliefs, when actually, it's not but a few over-zealous people who do so.  Just as there are over-zealous disbelievers and/or atheists who have a hard time understanding that everyone, believers or not, has the freedom of religion or no religion, and do not have to answer for what and why they believe.

[Falconer02]

You really believe that hogwash you just got through spewing?  If it weren't for God, you wouldn't be here.  While you are perfectly entitled to your opinion, I believe if anyone needs prayer, you do.  My question is, what did God do for you to put that out?  I know that God is an ever-loving presence in my life, and maybe He didn't answer your prayer in a timely fashion, but He is right on time. Shocked Huh? Shocked Huh?

And yet you post nothing to refute his argument. Just more negative ancient nonsense.

We can discuss this until the end of time.  You have your beliefs and I have mine.  I will RESPECT (not tolerate) yours, and I ask the same of you.  

Well I apologize but I cannot respect something that has had needless blood on it's hands throughout the ages and is still held up on a pedestal. Respect is earned, and religion and blind faith have earned themselves a negative history. You may feel differently personally, but in the grand scheme of things it has been pretty bad. I appreciate the gesture of respect though.

http://youtu.be/9YLzlIsrU4o?t=1m47s

[Falconer02]

If you believe there is no God, then you do not believe any of the spouted mistruths you are putting out here.

You have failed to show why my logic is false, and therefore have no reason or right to call the reasonings false. Unless you can explain it through realistic means, you are showing the very definition of delusional thinking. I have the right to make examples of why something is fallacious without believing in the supernatural claims I'm speaking against. If you want to call them mistruths, that's your call. But it makes absolutely no sense and shows a very narrow sense of intelligence.

this means, in actuality, lies are being spread about something you don't believe in or about, which mean those "lies" never took place, according to your interpretation of thinking.  

Incorrect. I can make examples of something to better explain why they're false. Just because I don't believe in Santa Claus does not mean I can't make examples of why his existence is implausible.

Researching the history of the events, understanding the facts and information, what happened, and why it happened, is preferable to just spouting half-lies and half-truths about something you know nothing about and claim to disbelieve.  Contradicting yourself gets you nowhere.

Contradicting? Are you serious? If you have a very large equation finished, but find errors anywhere in it after going over it, the whole equation is damaged. Your beliefs and ancient book, as I have proven countless times in the past, is just this. The fact that your beliefs have never been able to withstand any basic skepticism says an overwhelming amount about them. I'm not the one spreading lies. I'm the one explaining why religious 'facts' are fallible and should not be taken seriously. Now before you go and start copy/pasting 10 pages of text from well-known creationist liars to show your 'research' on the subject, I recommend you stop yourself and realize how intellectually dishonest you're being and have been in the past.

[BMaston12]

I'd like to start off by saying that your god isn't real. Sorry.

With the massive influx of prayer-related threads as of late, I thought it would be most prudent to just make a thread to cover my overall dissenting viewpoint.

Praying doesn't solve anything. Praying is simply giving yourself false hope when you should in fact have real hope as a result of actually doing something to help a given situation. Don't pray that we may find a cure for cancer when you can take that same effort and fund raise for charity. Prayer has been shown to cause no affect to the outcome of an event. Prayer's effects, no matter how massive the number of people are involved, has never been scientifically shown to make a significant differences in the outcome of an event. You could argue its because god deems it so, (which is a very popular scapegoat used) but this argument is one that hurts prayer the most.

If god (assuming such a deity exist, and is in fact the god of the christian bible) is going to do whatever he/she/it wants too regardless of prayer, then what is the point of prayer exactly? I suppose you could say the whole point is just to "connect" to god (I wont get into the specifics of that argument as I'll just be going back to my previous statement that god isn't real). Just remember, though, if you believe that prayer is only used to connect to your god, then you must also be insulted by the influx of threads, posts, and the general ideology that's telling others that they can pray their problems away.

If you want to pray in your own house to make yourself feel better, that's fine. I don't support this action, but I'll leave you alone to do as you wish. When you start to tell others to pray instead of (or when they can be doing) doing something actually useful, then it becomes a problem and it needs to stop.

I am glad that you are not going to force your feelings about prayer on anyone. It has been a proven fact that doctors see changes in patients who do pray and their loved ones who pray for them while they are in comas. Modern medicine is not to have cured these patients and the doctors will say It was not anything I did. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and you have yours. Believers also have their rights to express their convictions, so I am sure that God will sort it all out in the end.
BMaston12