New Christian Question #4: What about people, like my fiance, who choose facts

[BK_Adores_Chase]

over faith?  He basically doesn't believe in God because to him the Bible doesn't make sense (he is super smart) - is he going to hell for being deceived?

[tuscarorarain]

over faith?  He basically doesn't believe in God because to him the Bible doesn't make sense (he is super smart) - is he going to hell for being deceived?

What someone chooses to beleive is up to them. Jesus Christ died on the cross to give us the ability to go to heaven. He made the way and rose from the dead. The Bible makes perfect sense when you look into it. A lot of people what to choose what is politically correct and not what is actually right. I have a Lakota freind named Wayluta who is a satanist and we get along great. We have decided to agree to disagree. I gave him the information and he made his choice. People who do not accept the free salvation Jesus is offering them will go to hell. I love Wayluta. He has been my freind and Native brother. I pray for him, but I don't force him. He has to choose his own path.

[heroftimes]

No, he's not going to hell because it doesn't exist, it's a made up place to scare the un-informed and ignorant masses.  The most probable place that he will end up will be about 6 feet under.  Logic and reasoning dictate that.

over faith?  He basically doesn't believe in God because to him the Bible doesn't make sense (he is super smart) - is he going to hell for being deceived?

[BK_Adores_Chase]

By the way, you have been really informative so far and I thank you tuscarorarain!

[jcribb16]

over faith?  He basically doesn't believe in God because to him the Bible doesn't make sense (he is super smart) - is he going to hell for being deceived?

What someone chooses to beleive is up to them. Jesus Christ died on the cross to give us the ability to go to heaven. He made the way and rose from the dead. The Bible makes perfect sense when you look into it. A lot of people what to choose what is politically correct and not what is actually right. I have a Lakota freind named Wayluta who is a satanist and we get along great. We have decided to agree to disagree. I gave him the information and he made his choice. People who do not accept the free salvation Jesus is offering them will go to hell. I love Wayluta. He has been my freind and Native brother. I pray for him, but I don't force him. He has to choose his own path.

You said it better than I could have.  Great points.  Maybe Wayluta will think on those things you shared with him at some point in his life. 

[JediJohnnie]

over faith?  He basically doesn't believe in God because to him the Bible doesn't make sense (he is super smart) - is he going to hell for being deceived?

First I want to take the last part of your question.No one goes to hell for not believing.People end up in hell because they have sin,and sin cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven.The only way for sin to be removed is by trusting in Jesus Christ as the Son of God,and that He died for your sins and Rose again.


There's a difference between being "smart" and "wise".In fact I posted this verse not long ago from 1 Corinthians 3 18 (Do not deceive yourselves. If any of you think you are wise by the standards of this age, you should become “fools” so that you may become wise.For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God’s sight.)

I have the same problem with friends that want "facts".There are many such facts that corroborate the Bible found in ancient artifacts and literature.The problem for most is not that they can't believe,but that they don't want to believe.

[jcribb16]

over faith?  He basically doesn't believe in God because to him the Bible doesn't make sense (he is super smart) - is he going to hell for being deceived?

First I want to take the last part of your question.No one goes to hell for not believing.People end up in hell because they have sin,and sin cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven.The only way for sin to be removed is by trusting in Jesus Christ as the Son of God,and that He died for your sins and Rose again.


There's a difference between being "smart" and "wise".In fact I posted this verse not long ago from 1 Corinthians 3 18 (Do not deceive yourselves. If any of you think you are wise by the standards of this age, you should become “fools” so that you may become wise.For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God’s sight.)

I have the same problem with friends that want "facts".There are many such facts that corroborate the Bible found in ancient artifacts and literature.The problem for most is not that they can't believe,but that they don't want to believe.

Those are great points!

[bobes915]

In addition to my comments on your Job question thread, let me recommend 2 books:

1. "The Reason for God" by Timothy Keller - Dr. Keller is a pastor in New York City and after spending years talking to some of the brightest unbelievers, he took their most common and objections to Christianity and sought to answer them.  I would commend the book to anyone who is thinking seriously about intellectual objections to Christianity whether they are beginning from a point of faith or not.   

2. "The God I Don't Understand" by Christopher J.H. Wright.  - This is an excellent book written by a Biblical Scholar on the most controversial Biblical questions. 

[falcon9]

I have the same problem with friends that want "facts".There are many such facts that corroborate the Bible found in ancient artifacts and literature.The problem for most is not that they can't believe,but that they don't want to believe.

No, the problem is that archeological findings do not provide facts corroborating supernatural religious claims made by the various writers of biblical hearsay.  Those supernatural claims have NO evidence whatsoever and rely entirely upon blind faith belief, not "facts".

[tfw6693]

I have the same problem with friends that want "facts".There are many such facts that corroborate the Bible found in ancient artifacts and literature.The problem for most is not that they can't believe,but that they don't want to believe.

No, the problem is that archeological findings do not provide facts corroborating supernatural religious claims made by the various writers of biblical hearsay.  Those supernatural claims have NO evidence whatsoever and rely entirely upon blind faith belief, not "facts".

So you won't take our facts by faith but you want me to take your facts by faith. I chose to believe in Ggod and Salvation. If I am wrong I just return to dust. If I am right then you are sentenced to seperation from God.

Not my rules or my within my power to decide. I can only speak for myself.

[hitch0403]

I have the same problem with friends that want "facts".There are many such facts that corroborate the Bible found in ancient artifacts and literature.The problem for most is not that they can't believe,but that they don't want to believe.

No, the problem is that archeological findings do not provide facts corroborating supernatural religious claims made by the various writers of biblical hearsay.  Those supernatural claims have NO evidence whatsoever and rely entirely upon blind faith belief, not "facts".

So you won't take our facts by faith but you want me to take your facts by faith. I chose to believe in Ggod and Salvation. If I am wrong I just return to dust. If I am right then you are sentenced to seperation from God.

Not my rules or my within my power to decide. I can only speak for myself.

Let bible answer questions.Bible says at death man doesnt exist.God told Adam back to dust.Lazarus spoke of no hell or heavenly bliss before Jesus resurrected him.Bible also says at death man is aquitted from his sin.Penalty of sin is death says bible.At death sin has done its job.The soul that sins dies says Ezekiel.

[falcon9]

I have the same problem with friends that want "facts".There are many such facts that corroborate the Bible found in ancient artifacts and literature.The problem for most is not that they can't believe,but that they don't want to believe.

No, the problem is that archeological findings do not provide facts corroborating supernatural religious claims made by the various writers of biblical hearsay.  Those supernatural claims have NO evidence whatsoever and rely entirely upon blind faith belief, not "facts".

So you won't take our facts by faith but you want me to take your facts by faith.

"Faith" is not factual since it relies entirely upon belief without evidence.  Logical reasoning relies entirely upon rational thinking and factual evidence; there's no "faith" or "belief" needed to use them.  Either logical reasoning provides accurate conclusions or, it does not.  If it does, no "faith" is required.  If it does not, there was an error in reasoning or, an omission of facts. Unless a line of logical reasoning can be refuted by illogical, non-reasoning "faith", (and it cannot), then "faith" leads to irrational conclusions.

I chose to believe in Ggod and Salvation. If I am wrong I just return to dust.

You omitted the part before 'returning to dust' where you are basing life decisions upon the same superstitious religious beliefs which lead directly to the blood-soaked dark ages, the xtian-instigated Inquisitions, the xtian instigated Crusades, the xtian-intigated witch hunts and the xtian-instigated forced cultural assimulations of "pagans".  So, if you are "wrong", people can suffer and die as a result of your superstitions.

If I am right then you are sentenced to seperation from God.

Sounds good to me.  In the first place, I wouldn't want to be 'absorbed' by your daemonic g-d, (the same alleged 'g-d' responsible for so much human misery over the millenia that 'it' ought to be brought up on genocide charges ... good thing that there's absolutely no evidence to support the existence of such a hideous 'daemon', aye?). Summarily, religious beliefs consist of false/unsupported metaphysical attributions which must rely instead upon blind faith.  I decline to blind or delude myself with such superstitious beliefs.

[falcon9]

Let bible answer questions.Bible says 

A 'book' of superstitious religious hearsay and platitudes plagiarized from pagan cultures is no valid answer.

[nhendrickson]

over faith?  He basically doesn't believe in God because to him the Bible doesn't make sense (he is super smart) - is he going to hell for being deceived?

First I want to take the last part of your question.No one goes to hell for not believing.People end up in hell because they have sin,and sin cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven.The only way for sin to be removed is by trusting in Jesus Christ as the Son of God,and that He died for your sins and Rose again.


There's a difference between being "smart" and "wise".In fact I posted this verse not long ago from 1 Corinthians 3 18 (Do not deceive yourselves. If any of you think you are wise by the standards of this age, you should become “fools” so that you may become wise.For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God’s sight.)

I have the same problem with friends that want "facts".There are many such facts that corroborate the Bible found in ancient artifacts and literature.The problem for most is not that they can't believe,but that they don't want to believe.

If you actually have facts that corroborate the Bible, please share them along with the cites for them.

[falcon9]

I have the same problem with friends that want "facts".There are many such facts that corroborate the Bible found in ancient artifacts and literature.The problem for most is not that they can't believe,but that they don't want to believe.

If you actually have facts that corroborate the Bible, please share them along with the cites for them.

Even more specifically; facts which would corroborate metaphysical/religious claims, (since “They say Jerusalem is proof Jesus walked on earth. I say the Empire building is proof King Kong scaled it." – Ben Rodriguez - is not corroboration of metaphysical claims).  This is mentioned because religious adherents tend to conflate 'we found a rock shaped like the cross' with corroboration of "resurrection" or "salvation" religio-metaphysical claims when they aren't.