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falcon9

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Re: I have finally put my life in the hands of the Lord
« Reply #45 on: October 31, 2012, 03:36:54 pm »
So why is that christians can not even decide amongst each other on specifics and have so many denominations? (Cathlic, Protestan, Lutheran, Morman, to name but a few) And what about the missing books from the bible? There are clearly chapters (or gospels) missing, why is that? Something the old church did not want the general public to know? At any rate its missing.

And what about the MAJORITY of the world that is not christian, but rather muslim jewish budist, ect. Are they all screwed eternaly, most of them because they were brought up in a different part of the world and were taught differently? If you think most people are christian you are wrong, look it up. Christians vs the rest of religion and those without religion, christianity is far out numbered.

So someone who rapes and murders can repent and get into heaven, but someone who does nothing worse then some non violent sins will be cast to hell for not beleiving?

Why is one of the 10 commandments saying 'the lords' name in vain (as in, saying his name with a bad additude, like 'goddamnit that sucks' or in surprise, like jesus christ that scared me. BUT RAPE is not a commandment, as long as the one getting raped is not married to someone else(cuz that would be adultery)

If every man is a sinner and the bible was writen by men...

How do you explain Noahs Arc? Really? No one else had a boat? He got 2 of every animal, which are spread out over the entire planet? Alot of animals EAT other animals, what did they eat on that boat, if not each other? This is but one of MANY illogical tellings of the bible.

Fear of eternal damnation in the fiery pits of hell is a strong recruitment tool, especialy for the young, dont you think? Especially when the other alternative given is eternaly happiness and bliss in heaven.. Im sure some people have the better safe then sorry mindset.

Sorry just read through some things on this post and wanted to give my opinion, althought I fully expect that the only response to my post will be along the lines of blind faith, believing anyways, and no real answers to the clear lack of all logic.
However, you are entitled to your own believes and views, and so am I, these are just some of mine on the subject.

You know, I have wondered about most of the same things you mentioned in your post here. How can people who say they believe in God prove that these things really did happen? If so, why don't these 'miraculous situations' happen today? I would like to know.

Today, (as it was earlier in history), nearly every religious adherent relies upon false attributions of situations/events to supernatural causes.  Back when, it was attributing thunder to "thunder g-ds/g-ddesses" or crop growth to sacrificing virgins.  Nowadays, you'll see human assistance for victims of subtropical storm "Sandy" being falsely attributed to supernatural egregores which lack substantive evidence of even existing.  May as well resume sacrificing virgins for all the effect that has on outcomes.
One can lead a horse to water however, if one holds the horse's head under, that horse will drown.

             

tuscarorarain

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Re: I have finally put my life in the hands of the Lord
« Reply #46 on: October 31, 2012, 03:56:15 pm »
So why is that christians can not even decide amongst each other on specifics and have so many denominations? (Cathlic, Protestan, Lutheran, Morman, to name but a few) And what about the missing books from the bible? There are clearly chapters (or gospels) missing, why is that? Something the old church did not want the general public to know? At any rate its missing.

And what about the MAJORITY of the world that is not christian, but rather muslim jewish budist, ect. Are they all screwed eternaly, most of them because they were brought up in a different part of the world and were taught differently? If you think most people are christian you are wrong, look it up. Christians vs the rest of religion and those without religion, christianity is far out numbered.

So someone who rapes and murders can repent and get into heaven, but someone who does nothing worse then some non violent sins will be cast to hell for not beleiving?

Why is one of the 10 commandments saying 'the lords' name in vain (as in, saying his name with a bad additude, like 'goddamnit that sucks' or in surprise, like jesus christ that scared me. BUT RAPE is not a commandment, as long as the one getting raped is not married to someone else(cuz that would be adultery)

If every man is a sinner and the bible was writen by men...

How do you explain Noahs Arc? Really? No one else had a boat? He got 2 of every animal, which are spread out over the entire planet? Alot of animals EAT other animals, what did they eat on that boat, if not each other? This is but one of MANY illogical tellings of the bible.

Fear of eternal damnation in the fiery pits of hell is a strong recruitment tool, especialy for the young, dont you think? Especially when the other alternative given is eternaly happiness and bliss in heaven.. Im sure some people have the better safe then sorry mindset.

Sorry just read through some things on this post and wanted to give my opinion, althought I fully expect that the only response to my post will be along the lines of blind faith, believing anyways, and no real answers to the clear lack of all logic.
However, you are entitled to your own believes and views, and so am I, these are just some of mine on the subject.

I just wanted to take some time to answer the questions you are having. I think these are some of the same questions a lot of lost people experence. I want to start from the bottom and work my way up going through each one of your questions at a time. First, hell was originally made for satan and his angels (fallen angels.) Satan was originally an angel of light, but not being the highest in command angered satan and he wanted to cast God down and be head. However, God is alpowerful and allknowing. He damned satan. Satan got to Eve and Eve tempted Adam into doing something that was not right. Adam brought upon all the future generations the fleshly lust to sin. God knew they needed a sacrifice to cover there transgressions. He knew people needed a way of salvation and to repent (change their mind and come to God) about their sins. He sent His only begotten Son to earth born through a virgin that fullfilled multiple prophesies as proof that He indeed is the Son of God. Jesus Christ was brought up til around the age of thirty. He healed the sin and forgave sins. The before offeringsa made before His time was a sign of accepting the sacrifice to come. Jesus Christ died on the cross in a brutal way as sacrifice to pay for our sins. He rose from the dead. He does not demand that everyone be saved, but offers the free choice. Many people do not want to think their is a hell, but Jesus Christ paid our sins. All we have to do is accept that with faith. When we do not accept it we reject God which is what satan did. That is what sends people to hell.
About Noah's ark, it has been discovered resting in the mountains of Ararat. Scientists have done tests and confirmed that it is indeed the ark. I cannot post links according to Fusion Cash rules, but if you go to youtube or search engine like google you can type,"Noah's ark mount Ararat proof," and it will come up.
The Bible was not written by men. It was penned by men. This means God wrote the Bible, but moved through men to write it. The Word has always been and is a part of God.
Rape is against the Bible. If we look up the story of Tamar in the KJV Bible (King James is accurate compared to the Greek and Chaldean translations) we see the story of how Tamar was rapped. He was killed for it.
Salvation changes people. If someone had rapped somebody or killed someone they change afterwards because they have the Holy Ghost which gives us spiritual discenment. I beleive it was Saul I mentioned before. He had been a Christian killer and God saved him and used him to lead others to salvation. Think of how many Americans fought and died for the saving of others. I think of Crazy Horse who paid a price for Native Americans.
Denominatons are rapedly changing. A lot of the seperation is due to the fact that people misinterperate the Bible or choose to beleive only the parts they want too. Some might refere to it as being half hearted. Nondenominational means people that go there don't really beleive the same thing, but do not want any specific code of conduct for their lives. I am an Independant Missionary supporting Baptist. That means we stick to the King James Version Bible because it is the only completly accurate English translation of the Bible that I know of. I want to be in church with people who stand for the Bible.
I hope that helps you get a better insight. I am interested in charing a more scientific side of Christianity as well. This is basically where I can disprove evelution. Charles Darwin got saved before he passed away. Albert Einstein supported Christianity as well. There is a scientist you can check out on youtube named Kent Howind.
Lord Jesus Christ is the only way for eternal salvation from sins. Jesus loves you.

tuscarorarain

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Re: I have finally put my life in the hands of the Lord
« Reply #47 on: October 31, 2012, 03:58:22 pm »
So why is that christians can not even decide amongst each other on specifics and have so many denominations? (Cathlic, Protestan, Lutheran, Morman, to name but a few) And what about the missing books from the bible? There are clearly chapters (or gospels) missing, why is that? Something the old church did not want the general public to know? At any rate its missing.

And what about the MAJORITY of the world that is not christian, but rather muslim jewish budist, ect. Are they all screwed eternaly, most of them because they were brought up in a different part of the world and were taught differently? If you think most people are christian you are wrong, look it up. Christians vs the rest of religion and those without religion, christianity is far out numbered.

So someone who rapes and murders can repent and get into heaven, but someone who does nothing worse then some non violent sins will be cast to hell for not beleiving?

Why is one of the 10 commandments saying 'the lords' name in vain (as in, saying his name with a bad additude, like 'goddamnit that sucks' or in surprise, like jesus christ that scared me. BUT RAPE is not a commandment, as long as the one getting raped is not married to someone else(cuz that would be adultery)

If every man is a sinner and the bible was writen by men...

How do you explain Noahs Arc? Really? No one else had a boat? He got 2 of every animal, which are spread out over the entire planet? Alot of animals EAT other animals, what did they eat on that boat, if not each other? This is but one of MANY illogical tellings of the bible.

Fear of eternal damnation in the fiery pits of hell is a strong recruitment tool, especialy for the young, dont you think? Especially when the other alternative given is eternaly happiness and bliss in heaven.. Im sure some people have the better safe then sorry mindset.

Sorry just read through some things on this post and wanted to give my opinion, althought I fully expect that the only response to my post will be along the lines of blind faith, believing anyways, and no real answers to the clear lack of all logic.
However, you are entitled to your own believes and views, and so am I, these are just some of mine on the subject.

Sorry about my typing. Seems my three year old spilled something on my keyboard. It works and then it don't lol.
Lord Jesus Christ is the only way for eternal salvation from sins. Jesus loves you.

jcribb16

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Re: I have finally put my life in the hands of the Lord
« Reply #48 on: October 31, 2012, 04:02:15 pm »
So why is that christians can not even decide amongst each other on specifics and have so many denominations? (Cathlic, Protestan, Lutheran, Morman, to name but a few) And what about the missing books from the bible? There are clearly chapters (or gospels) missing, why is that? Something the old church did not want the general public to know? At any rate its missing.

And what about the MAJORITY of the world that is not christian, but rather muslim jewish budist, ect. Are they all screwed eternaly, most of them because they were brought up in a different part of the world and were taught differently? If you think most people are christian you are wrong, look it up. Christians vs the rest of religion and those without religion, christianity is far out numbered.

So someone who rapes and murders can repent and get into heaven, but someone who does nothing worse then some non violent sins will be cast to hell for not beleiving?

Why is one of the 10 commandments saying 'the lords' name in vain (as in, saying his name with a bad additude, like 'goddamnit that sucks' or in surprise, like jesus christ that scared me. BUT RAPE is not a commandment, as long as the one getting raped is not married to someone else(cuz that would be adultery)

If every man is a sinner and the bible was writen by men...

How do you explain Noahs Arc? Really? No one else had a boat? He got 2 of every animal, which are spread out over the entire planet? Alot of animals EAT other animals, what did they eat on that boat, if not each other? This is but one of MANY illogical tellings of the bible.

Fear of eternal damnation in the fiery pits of hell is a strong recruitment tool, especialy for the young, dont you think? Especially when the other alternative given is eternaly happiness and bliss in heaven.. Im sure some people have the better safe then sorry mindset.

Sorry just read through some things on this post and wanted to give my opinion, althought I fully expect that the only response to my post will be along the lines of blind faith, believing anyways, and no real answers to the clear lack of all logic.
However, you are entitled to your own believes and views, and so am I, these are just some of mine on the subject.
1. "The Bible has a historical framework. Its characters are real people living in verifiable locations during historical events. The Bible mentions Nebuchadnezzar, Sennacherib, Cyrus, Herod, Felix, Pilate, and many other historical figures. Its history coincides with that of many nations, including the Egyptian, Hittite, Persian, Babylonian, and Roman empires. The events of the Bible take place in geographical areas such as Canaan, Syria, Egypt, Mesopotamia, and others."

2. "The Bible has many confirmations in sciences such as biology, geology, astronomy, and archaeology. The field of biblical archaeology has absolutely exploded in the last century and a half, during which time hundreds of thousands of artifacts have been discovered. Just one example: at one time, skeptics used the Bible’s references to the Hittite civilization as “proof” that the Bible was a myth. There was never any such people as the “Hittites,” according to the science of the day. However, in 1876, the first of a series of discoveries was made, and now the existence of the ancient Hittite civilization is well documented. Archaeology continues to bolster the Bible’s historicity. As Dr. Henry M. Morris has remarked, “There exists today not one unquestionable find of archaeology that proves the Bible to be in error at any point.” "

3. "The Bible is written as history. Luke wrote his Gospel as “an account of the things that have been fulfilled among us . . . just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses.” Luke claims that he had “carefully investigated everything from the beginning” and so wrote “an orderly account . . . so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught” (see Luke 1:1-4). Did Luke include miracles in his account? Yes, many of them. But they were miracles verified by eyewitnesses. Two thousand years later, a skeptic might call Luke’s account a “myth,” but the burden of proof rests with the skeptic. The account itself is a carefully investigated historical document."

4. "The Bible contains over 1,800 predictions concerning more than 700 separate subjects found in over 8,300 verses. The Old Testament contains more than 300 prophecies concerning Jesus Christ alone, many with amazing specificity. Numerous prophecies have already been fulfilled, and they have come to pass precisely as foretold. The mathematical odds of someone making this number of predictions and having every one of them come to pass are light-years beyond the realm of human possibility. These miraculous prophecies could only be accomplished with the supernatural guidance of Him who sees the beginning from the end (Isaiah 46:9-10)."

5. "many who reject God and His revealed Word do so because of pride. They are so invested in their personal beliefs that they refuse to honestly weigh the evidence. To accept the Bible as true would require them to think seriously about God and their responsibility to Him. To accept the Bible as true might require a change of lifestyle. As Erwin Lutzer stated, “The truth is, few people have an open mind, especially about matters of religion. . . . Thus, perverted doctrines and prejudices are easily perpetuated from one generation to another.” "

http://www.blogos.org/exploringtheword/bible-myth.html

I chose to copy and paste, and while some may not "approve," the reports and articles, etc., explain things a lot better than I could, especially when many of these questions require in-depth answers.
 

falcon9

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Re: I have finally put my life in the {imaginary} hands of the Lord
« Reply #49 on: October 31, 2012, 04:05:01 pm »
I think these are some of the same questions a lot of lost people experence.

They're not "lost"; the questions posed were challenges to religious adherents to back up their specious superstitious beliefs with something otehr than more specious superstitious beliefs.  Your entire response consists of more unsubstantiated, specious religious beliefs which avoided directly answering the questions posed.

I am interested in charing a more scientific side of Christianity as well. This is basically where I can disprove evelution.  

There is no "scientific side" of xtianity and and attempts pseudo-scientific nonsense have already been 'charred' to a crisp by actual science and logical refutation of those pseudo-scientific attempts by religious adherents.  The evoluion debate has already ebbed and flowed on FC forums before and it's etremely doubtful that a faith-blinded fundie can "disprove evelution[sic]" though, you're welcome to try, (although it's extrapolated that you want to propagandize religious beliefs unopposed in that regard, rather than debate them).
One can lead a horse to water however, if one holds the horse's head under, that horse will drown.

             

jcribb16

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Re: I have finally put my life in the hands of the Lord
« Reply #50 on: October 31, 2012, 04:06:16 pm »
Regarding Noah's Ark:

"It is true that the Genesis flood account shares many striking similarities with the Babylonian Gilgamesh epic, and with the Babylonian Atrahasis epic, for that matter. In fact, literally hundreds of flood traditions have been preserved all over the world, with traditions abounding in Europe, Asia, Africa, and Australia, as well as both of the Americas, and the Genesis account shares similarities with most of them. Of the flood traditions which have survived to the present time, about 95% describe a global cataclysmic deluge, 88% tell of a favored family of humans saved from drowning to reestablish the human race after the deluge, 66% say the family was forewarned of the coming cataclysm, 66% blame the wickedness of man for the deluge, and 70% record a boat as being the means by which the chosen family (and animals) survived the flood. More than one third of these traditions mention birds being sent out from the boat.

Since every culture has descended directly from the flood’s survivors, it is logical that stories of this traumatic event are both abundant and universal, having been passed down from generation to generation. This is certainly the case. Many of these traditions are remarkably consistent, considering the relative isolation of the cultures, the length of time that has elapsed since the flood, and the human tendency to embellish, exaggerate, and distort stories over time. The Babylonian and biblical accounts of the flood appear to represent different retellings of an essentially identical flood tradition.

Skeptics want to imagine that there was, in fact, no flood and that the Bible’s flood account was borrowed from a Babylonian myth. The evidence seems to suggest otherwise: there was, in fact, a catastrophic worldwide deluge, and the veracity of the biblical account is attested to by numerous other similar ancient accounts. In addition to abundant historical evidence, there is a wealth of physical proof in favor of the flood’s historicity. The flood of Noah’s day was most certainly a real historical event, and the biblical account of what happened is trustworthy."

http://www.gotquestions.org/Flood-accounts.html


"How did Noah fit all of those animals on the ark? Was the ark big enough to fit “two of every kind… of the birds after their kind, and of the animals after their kind, of every creeping thing of the ground after its kind,” and seven of some kinds? What about food? There had to be enough room to store enough food to last Noah and his family (8 in all), plus all of the animals, at least a year (see Genesis 7:11; 8:13-18) and maybe more, depending on how long it took for vegetation to grow back. That’s a lot of food! What about drinking water? Is it realistic to believe that Noah’s boat was big enough to store all of these animals and all of this food and water for over a year?

The dimensions for the ark given in Genesis are 300 cubits long, 50 cubits wide and 30 cubits high (Genesis 6:15). What is a cubit? A cubit is an ancient unit of measurement, the length of the forearm from the elbow to the longest finger (the term “cubit” comes from the Latin word “cubitum” which means “elbow.” The Hebrew word for “cubit” is “ammah.” As everybody’s arms are different lengths, this unit may seem a bit ambiguous to some, but scholars generally agree that it represents somewhere between 17 and 22 inches (43-56 centimeters). The ancient Egyptian cubit is known to have been 21.888 inches. So, doing the math,

300 x 22 inches = 6,600; 50 x 22 inches = 1,100; 30 x 22 inches = 660
6,600/12 = 550 feet; 1100/12 = 91.7 feet; 660/12 = 55 feet.

Thus, the ark could have been up to 550 feet long, 91.7 feet wide and 55 feet high. These are not unreasonable dimensions. But how much storage space does this amount to? Well, 550 x 91.7 x 55 = 2,773,925 cubic feet. (If we take the smallest measurement of cubit, 17 inches, we end up with 1,278,825 cubic feet). Of course, not all of it would have been free space. The ark had three levels (Genesis 6:16) and a lot of rooms (Genesis 6:14), the walls of which would have taken up space. Nevertheless, it has been calculated that a little more than half (54.75%) of the 2,773,925 cubic feet could store 125,000 sheep-sized animals, leaving over 1.5 million cubic feet of free space (see - http://www.icr.org/bible/bhta42.html).

John Woodmorappe, author of the definitive Noah's Ark: A Feasibility Study, estimated that only about 15% of the animals on the ark would have been larger than a sheep. This figure does not take into account the possibility that God may have brought Noah “infant” animals, which can be significantly smaller than adult animals.

How many animals were on the ark? Woodmorappe estimates about 16,000 “kinds.” What is a “kind”? The designation of “kind” is thought to be much broader than the designation “species.” Even as there are over 400 dog breeds all belonging to one species (Canis familiaris), so many species can belong to one kind. Some think that the designation “genus” may be somewhat close to the biblical “kind.”

Nevertheless, even if we presume that “kind” is synonymous with “species,” “there are not very many species of mammals, birds, amphibians and reptiles. The leading systematic biologist, Ernst Mayr, gives the number as 17,600. Allowing for two of each species on the ark, plus seven of the few so-called “clean” kinds of animals, plus a reasonable increment for known extinct species, it is obvious that not more than, say, 50,000 animals were on the ark” (Morris, 1987).

Some have estimated that there were as many as 25,000 kinds of animals represented on the ark. This is a high-end estimation. With two of each kind and seven of some, the number of animals would exceed 50,000, though not by very much, relatively speaking. Regardless, whether there were 16,000 or 25,000 kinds of animals, even with two of each and seven of some, scholars agree that there was plenty of room for all of the animals on the ark, plus food and water with room to spare.

What about all of the excrement produced by all of these animals? How did 8 people manage to feed all of those animals and deal with tons of excrement on a daily basis? What about animals with specialized diet? How did plant-life survive? What about insects? There are a thousand other questions like these which could be raised, and they are all good questions. In the minds of many, these questions are unanswerable. But they are certainly nothing new. They have been asked over and over for centuries. And in all of that time researchers have sought answers. There are now numerous, very scholarly feasibility studies which have put Noah and his ark to the test.

With over 1,200 scholarly references to academic studies, Woodmorappe’s book is “a modern systematic evaluation of the alleged difficulties surrounding Noah's Ark” (John Woodmorappe, “A Resource for Answering the Critics of Noah’s Ark,” Impact No. 273, March 1996. Institute for Creation Research, 30 January 2005 http://www.icr.org/pubs/imp/imp-273.htm). Woodmorappe claims that after years of systematically examining all of the questions which have been raised, “all of the arguments against the Ark are… found wanting. In fact, the vast majority of the anti-Ark arguments, at first superficially plausible, turn out to be easily invalidated.” "

http://www.gotquestions.org/Noahs-ark-animals.html

falcon9

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Re: I have finally put my life in the {imaginary} hands of the Lord
« Reply #51 on: October 31, 2012, 04:11:34 pm »
http://www.blogos.org/exploringtheword/bible-myth.html

I chose to copy and paste, and while some may not "approve," the reports and articles, etc., explain things a lot better than I could, especially when many of these questions require in-depth answers.

Regardless, none of that c&p addresses the supernatural claims made by either current religious adherents nor those who cobbled-together the propaganda tracts the religious adherents call "bibles".  The questions posed in the prior post were not of a dubious "historic" nature or regarding "artificats".  They raised doubts concerning such "supernatural" claims made, (including those of so-called "prophesies").  Regarding those "prophesies", all your cut & paste claimed was that "Numerous prophecies have already been fulfilled, and they have come to pass precisely as foretold" but, failed to provide any actual evidence to support that claim.
One can lead a horse to water however, if one holds the horse's head under, that horse will drown.

             

jcribb16

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Re: I have finally put my life in the hands of the Lord
« Reply #52 on: October 31, 2012, 04:13:55 pm »
Regarding the Eternal place of punishment:

"In the shifting winds of modern cultures, the idea of everlasting torment and damnation is difficult for many people to grasp. Why is this? The Bible makes it clear that hell is a literal place. Christ spoke more about hell that He did of heaven. Not only Satan and his minions will be punished there, everyone who rejects Jesus Christ will spend eternity right along with them. A desire to reject or revise the doctrine of hell will not mitigate its flames or make the place go away. Still, the idea of eternal damnation is spurned by many, and here are some reasons for it:

The influence of contemporary thought. In this postmodern era, many go to great lengths to assure no one is offended, and the biblical doctrine of hell is considered offensive. It is too harsh, too old-fashioned, too insensitive. The wisdom of this world is focused on this life, with no thought of the life to come.

Fear. Never-ending, conscious punishment devoid of any hope is indeed a frightening prospect. Many people would rather ignore the source of fear than face it and deal with it biblically. The fact is, hell should be frightening, considering it is the place of judgment originally created for the devil and his angels (Matthew 25:41).

A flawed view of God’s love. Many who reject the idea of eternal damnation do so because they find it difficult to believe that a loving God could banish people to a place as horrific as hell for all eternity. However, God’s love does not negate His justice, His righteousness, or His holiness. Neither does His justice negate His love. In fact, God’s love has provided the way to escape His wrath: the sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the cross (John 3:16-18).

A downplaying of sin. Some find it shockingly unfair that the recompense for a mere lifetime of sinning should be an eternal punishment. Others reject the idea of hell because, in their minds, sin isn’t all that bad. Certainly not bad enough to warrant eternal torture. Of course, it is usually our own sin that we downplay; other people might deserve hell—murderers and the like. This attitude reveals a misunderstanding of the universally heinous nature of sin. The problem is an insistence on our own basic goodness, which precludes thoughts of a fiery judgment and denies the truth of Romans 3:10 (“There is no one righteous, not even one”). The egregiousness of iniquity compelled Christ to the cross. God hated sin to death.

Aberrant theories. Another reason people reject the concept of eternal damnation is that they have been taught alternative theories. One such theory is universalism, which says that everyone will eventually make it to heaven. Another theory is annihilationism, in which the existence of hell is acknowledged, but its eternal nature is denied. Annihilationists believe that those who end up in hell will eventually die and cease to exist (i.e., they will be annihilated). This theory simply makes hell a temporary punishment. Both these theories are presented as viable options to the biblical teaching on hell; however, both make the mistake of placing human opinion over divine revelation.

Incomplete teaching. Many contemporary pastors who do believe in the doctrine of hell consider it simply too delicate a subject to preach on. This further contributes to the modern denial of hell. Congregants in churches where hell is not preached are ignorant of what the Bible says on the subject and are prime candidates for deception on the issue. A pastor’s responsibility is “to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to the saints” (Jude 1:3), not pick and choose what parts of the Bible to leave out.

Satan’s ploys. Satan’s first lie was a denial of judgment. In the Garden of Eden, the serpent told Eve, “You will not surely die” (Genesis 3:4). It is still one of Satan’s main tactics. “The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers” (2 Corinthians 4:4), and the blindness he produces includes a denial of God’s holy decrees. Convince the unsaved that there is no judgment, and they can “eat, drink and be merry” with no care for the future.

If we understand the nature of our Creator, we should have no difficulty understanding the concept of hell. “[God] is the Rock, His works are perfect, and all His ways are just. A faithful God who does no wrong, upright and just is He” (Deuteronomy 32:4, emphasis added). His desire is that no one perish but that all come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9).

To contradict the Bible’s teaching on hell is to say, essentially, “If I were God, I would not make hell like that.” The problem with such a mindset is its inherent pride—it smugly suggests that we can improve on God’s plan. However, we are not wiser than God; we are not more loving or more just. Rejecting or revising the biblical doctrine of hell carries a sad irony, which one writer put this way: “The only result of attempts, however well meaning, to air-condition hell is to assure that more and more people wind up there.” "

http://www.gotquestions.org/eternal-damnation.html

Once again, I copied and pasted, as it would take too long to respond with my own words - the articles and reports, etc., give more in-depth information than I could do.  Some don't "approve" of copy/paste, but if it helps to get points across, aids in research, gives a much clearer and concise answer, and is properly credited to the person/s or site/s, I do not personally have an issue with reading copy/pasted replies.  I do hope, that whether anyone agrees with these answers or not, that you will at least have an open mind enough to read through and see what is said, with what they have provided as evidence.  Thank you.

jcribb16

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Re: I have finally put my life in the hands of the Lord
« Reply #53 on: October 31, 2012, 04:17:27 pm »
So why is that christians can not even decide amongst each other on specifics and have so many denominations? (Cathlic, Protestan, Lutheran, Morman, to name but a few) And what about the missing books from the bible? There are clearly chapters (or gospels) missing, why is that? Something the old church did not want the general public to know? At any rate its missing.

And what about the MAJORITY of the world that is not christian, but rather muslim jewish budist, ect. Are they all screwed eternaly, most of them because they were brought up in a different part of the world and were taught differently? If you think most people are christian you are wrong, look it up. Christians vs the rest of religion and those without religion, christianity is far out numbered.

So someone who rapes and murders can repent and get into heaven, but someone who does nothing worse then some non violent sins will be cast to hell for not beleiving?

Why is one of the 10 commandments saying 'the lords' name in vain (as in, saying his name with a bad additude, like 'goddamnit that sucks' or in surprise, like jesus christ that scared me. BUT RAPE is not a commandment, as long as the one getting raped is not married to someone else(cuz that would be adultery)

If every man is a sinner and the bible was writen by men...

How do you explain Noahs Arc? Really? No one else had a boat? He got 2 of every animal, which are spread out over the entire planet? Alot of animals EAT other animals, what did they eat on that boat, if not each other? This is but one of MANY illogical tellings of the bible.

Fear of eternal damnation in the fiery pits of hell is a strong recruitment tool, especialy for the young, dont you think? Especially when the other alternative given is eternaly happiness and bliss in heaven.. Im sure some people have the better safe then sorry mindset.

Sorry just read through some things on this post and wanted to give my opinion, althought I fully expect that the only response to my post will be along the lines of blind faith, believing anyways, and no real answers to the clear lack of all logic.
However, you are entitled to your own believes and views, and so am I, these are just some of mine on the subject.

Sorry about my typing. Seems my three year old spilled something on my keyboard. It works and then it don't lol.

Thank you for your answers in the previous post.  You gave time and research into your answer, and don't worry about the typing end of it.  We all make mistakes at one time or another, and our kids "help" us with things like that, too, lol.  You were willing to try and answer and that is the important thing!  :)

falcon9

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Re: I have finally put my life in the hands of the Lord
« Reply #54 on: October 31, 2012, 04:20:50 pm »
Regarding the Eternal place of punishment:

http://www.gotquestions.org/eternal-damnation.html

I do hope, that whether anyone agrees with these answers or not, that you will at least have an open mind enough to read through and see what is said, with what they have provided as evidence.  Thank you.

No "evidence" was provided in the previous cut & paste article posted.  Instead, the a priori assumption was made that "hell" literally exists, (sans evidence of course), and other religiously-based assumptions, (also, sans evidence other than "faith"/a belief in the beliefs, in a circular fest of merry-go-round invalid basis).
One can lead a horse to water however, if one holds the horse's head under, that horse will drown.

             

jcribb16

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Re: I have finally put my life in the {imaginary} hands of the Lord
« Reply #55 on: October 31, 2012, 04:21:39 pm »
http://www.blogos.org/exploringtheword/bible-myth.html

I chose to copy and paste, and while some may not "approve," the reports and articles, etc., explain things a lot better than I could, especially when many of these questions require in-depth answers.

Regardless, none of that c&p addresses the supernatural claims made by either current religious adherents nor those who cobbled-together the propaganda tracts the religious adherents call "bibles".  The questions posed in the prior post were not of a dubious "historic" nature or regarding "artificats".  They raised doubts concerning such "supernatural" claims made, (including those of so-called "prophesies").  Regarding those "prophesies", all your cut & paste claimed was that "Numerous prophecies have already been fulfilled, and they have come to pass precisely as foretold" but, failed to provide any actual evidence to support that claim.

"A major factor in determining when Obadiah’s prophecies against Edom were fulfilled rests on when the book was written. The prophet mentions a recent invasion of Jerusalem (1:10-11), which helps to narrow down the date of writing. Jerusalem experienced four different invasions in Old Testament times, yet only two fit the time period under discussion in Obadiah. The early date would be about 841 B.C., when the Philistines and Arabians attacked Jerusalem during the reign of King Jehoram (2 Chronicles 21:16-17). The later date would be approximately 586 B.C., following the invasion of Babylon (2 Kings 24-25).

If the earlier date is correct, Obadiah would be the earliest of the prophetic books in the Old Testament. Those who hold this position refer to 2 Kings 8:20, which mentions Edom setting up its own king: “In his days Edom revolted from the rule of Judah and set up a king of their own.” Also used to support this date are comparisons of 2 Chronicles 21:16-17 with Joel 3:3-6 and Obadiah 1:11-12; as well as similarities between Obadiah 1:1-9 and Jeremiah 49:7-22.

If the later date is correct, the prophecy of Obadiah regarding Edom’s doom is more dramatic. Babylon completed its invasion of Jerusalem under King Nebuchadnezzar in 586 B.C. In the fifth century B.C., a people called the Nabateans defeated the Edomites and forced them from the city of Petra. The interval between prediction and fulfillment would, therefore, have been very short.

Regardless of the exact date, the predictions against Edom have already been fulfilled. Edom was removed from its land in the fifth century B.C., and there are no survivors of Edom today. This fulfilled the prediction in Obadiah 1:18: “They shall burn them and consume them, and there shall be no survivor for the house of Esau.” Some first-century leaders, such as Herod the Great, still traced their ancestry to Edom, but all mention of Edomites fades after the Jewish Wars of that era. At the end of the 4th century, Jerome referenced the land of Idumea (Edom), but the people of the region had long since disappeared."

http://www.gotquestions.org/prophecies-against-Edom.html

jcribb16

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Re: I have finally put my life in the hands of the Lord
« Reply #56 on: October 31, 2012, 04:23:55 pm »
" Revelation 4:1 introduces a section of Scripture that details “things which must be hereafter.” What follows are prophecies of the “end times.” We have not yet reached the tribulation, the revelation of the Antichrist, or other “end-time” events. What we do see is a “preparation” for those events.

Jesus said that the last days would be preceded by several things: many false Christs would come, deceiving many; we would “hear of wars and rumors of wars”; and there would be an increase in “famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in diverse places. All these are the beginning of sorrows” (Matthew 24:5-8). Today’s news is full of false religions, warfare, and natural disasters. We know that events of the tribulation period will include all that Jesus predicted (Revelation 6:1-8); current events seem to be a build-up for greater trouble ahead.

Paul warned that the last days would bring a marked increase in false teaching. “In later times, some will abandon the faith, and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons” (1 Timothy 4:1). The last days are described as “perilous times” because of the increasingly evil character of man and because of people who actively “oppose the truth” (2 Timothy 3:1-9; also see 2 Thessalonians 2:3). The list of things people will be in the last days—lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having a form of godliness but denying its power—(2 Timothy 3:1-2) seems to fit our modern age exactly.

Can there be any doubt that the prophecies concerning apostasy are being fulfilled? Our 21st-century world has embraced moral relativism, a philosophy which is tainting even the church. For example, many denominations are having a hard time defining marriage as being between one man and one woman, and many religious leaders today are openly supporting homosexuality. The Bible has become subordinate to the modern church’s quest for a more appealing “truth.” These are indeed “perilous times” spiritually.

The formation of the European Union—and the fact that we have a reunified Germany—is very interesting in light of biblical prophecy. The “ten toes” of Daniel 2:42 and the ten-horned beasts of Daniel 7:20 and Revelation 13:1 are references to a “revived” Roman Empire which will hold power before Christ returns. Although the precise political structure has yet to be formed, the pieces can be seen as falling into place.

In 1948, Israel was recognized as a sovereign state, and this, too, has ramifications for the student of Scripture. God promised Abram that his posterity would have Canaan as “an everlasting possession” (Genesis 17:8), and Ezekiel prophesied a physical and spiritual resuscitation of Israel (Ezekiel 37). Having Israel as a nation in its own land is important in light of end-time prophecy, because of Israel’s prominence in eschatology (Daniel 10:14; 11:41; Revelation 11:8).

While there is no biblical proof that the things mentioned above are the fulfillment of specific end-times prophecies, we can see how many of these events are similar to what the Bible describes. In any case, we are to be watching for these signs because Jesus told us that the day of the Lord—His return for His own—would come like a thief in the night (2 Peter 3:10), unexpected and unannounced. “Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man" (Luke 21:36)."

http://www.gotquestions.org/fulfilled-prophecy.html

falcon9

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Re: I have finally put my life in the {imaginary} hands of the Lord
« Reply #57 on: October 31, 2012, 04:24:19 pm »
http://www.gotquestions.org/prophecies-against-Edom.html

The cut & paste is using "biblical" references of "prophesies" in a circular manner to try 'proving' biblical references of prophesies.  That's illogical, irrational and not very intelligent to boot.
One can lead a horse to water however, if one holds the horse's head under, that horse will drown.

             

falcon9

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Re: I have finally put my life in the hands of the Lord
« Reply #58 on: October 31, 2012, 04:25:10 pm »
Revelation 4:1 
http://www.gotquestions.org/fulfilled-prophecy.html

The cut & paste is using "biblical" references of "prophesies" in a circular manner to try 'proving' biblical references of prophesies.  That's illogical, irrational and not very intelligent to boot.
One can lead a horse to water however, if one holds the horse's head under, that horse will drown.

             

jcribb16

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Re: I have finally put my life in the hands of the Lord
« Reply #59 on: October 31, 2012, 04:26:39 pm »
" Divine intervention is, simply put, God intervening in the affairs of the world. Divine intervention can be God causing something to happen or God preventing something from happening. Atheists, agnostics, and deists can find alternate explanations for even the most clearly miraculous events. Some believers see examples of divine intervention everywhere, interpreting seemingly random events as clear instruction from God to go one direction instead of another. So, does God intervene in the affairs of the world? If so, are there any undeniable examples of this divine intervention? Has God left any fingerprints on His handiwork?

The believer can point to many examples of God’s intervention. Everything from the defeat of the Spanish Armada to the existence of modern-day Israel is cited as proof that God has intervened in history. Of course, there are also the miracles of the Bible, recorded by eyewitnesses to the events, and creation itself—”the heavens are telling,” as Haydn put it.

But, for the atheist, agnostic, and deist, there is an alternate explanation for everything. There was recently a television program which attempted to explain away the miracles of the Bible. One episode was dedicated to the Red Sea crossing (see Exodus chapter 14). Scientists came up with several theories, including temporary land-bridges caused by underwater volcanic activity or an underwater earthquake which caused a tsunami, which resulted in the water depth being temporarily very low at the location Moses and the Israelites crossed the Red Sea. While the theories were scientifically possible, there was no explanation for how the event occurred at precisely the right moment for the Israelites to cross, but the Egyptians to be destroyed when they attempted to follow. Even if the event itself could be explained naturally, it stretches credulity to deny the supernatural timing of the event. But, again, for the person who denies the existence and/or activity of God in the world, any miracle can be explained away by attributing it to coincidence, hysteria, or delusion. If you look for reasons not to believe, you’re sure to find some.

At the opposite end of the spectrum are believers who view virtually everything as an example of divine intervention. A good parking spot being open is clearly a miracle from God. A sudden gust of wind or the chance meeting of a friend is clearly a sign from God to move in a different direction. While this mindset is more biblical than the approach a deist might take, it poses serious problems. Interpreting virtually everything as divine intervention can lead to very subjective conclusions. We tend to read into things what we want. It is tempting to study cloud shapes to find “proof” for what we want God’s will to be instead of truly seeking God’s will in a biblical manner (Romans 12:1-2).

Biblically speaking, God definitely intervenes in the affairs of the world (see Genesis through Revelation). God is sovereign (Psalm 93:1; 95:3; Jeremiah 23:20; Romans 9). Nothing happens that God does not ordain, cause, or allow. We are constantly surrounded by divine intervention, even when we are ignorant of it or blind to it. We will never know all of the times and all of the ways God intervenes in our lives. Divine intervention can come in the form of a miracle, such as a healing or supernatural sign. Divine intervention can also come in the form of a seemingly random event which directs us in the way God wants us to go.

But the Bible does not instruct us to seek hidden spiritual meanings in everyday life events. While we should be aware that God does intervene, we should not spend every waking minute trying to decode secret messages from above. Believers seek God’s Word for direction (2 Timothy 3:16-17) and are led by the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 5:18). We are to obey the one source in which we know God has indeed spoken, His Word (Hebrews 4:12)."

http://www.gotquestions.org/divine-intervention.html

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