Were you ever in the armed forces?

[jcribb16]

Do you remember the NT verses you are speaking of?  If you can list them, I'll go from there to answer the best I can.

"there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation, for no prophecy ever came through human will; but rather human beings moved by the holy Spirit spoke under the influence of God" 2 Peter 20-21

"be subject to masters with all fear" 1 Peter 2:18

"Whoever curses father or mother shall die" Mark 7:10

There are more elsewhere, but unfortunately I can't find the specific one that clearly stated that a xtian must obey the old laws. The original point was there are still commands to obey barbaric laws (in both ot and nt) when society has grown beyond it to see the major flaws in such reasonings. This just seems more of a pick-and-choose whatever fits (Bash gays? Totally! Slavery? Nah.) rather than zealously obeying. And yeah, screw radical Islam. They'll obviously be the last major religion to accept reality and fault.

Thanks for those to start with.  I am very late getting on here, but have bookmarked this to respond to later. 

[hitch0403]

The human being isnt a machine and automated otherwise love wouldnt exist.Again A&E didnt have to sin...they chose to because of selfish desire that led to imperfection.

Jesus being treated as a criminal and dying proved A&E could have remained loyal and he did it under more trying trials then A&E.A&E were not deprived of anything.....they chose their own independence of whats good and bad and it cost the human race.

Jehovah is the rightful sovereign of the universe and HE decides what is best for Him and his creation.No one is forced to obey but also keep in mind our lives depend on loving and obeying Him as Jesus said was the 1st commandment.

[Falconer02]

The human being isnt a machine and automated otherwise love wouldnt exist.Again A&E didnt have to sin...they chose to because of selfish desire that led to imperfection.

Who's talking about robots? You're shifting the debate now to something else.

Perfection is a state of completeness and flawlessness.
A flaw is an imperfection, often concealed, that impairs soundness (logical/sensible thinking)
Selfishness is relating to or characterized by self-interest. Not taking others into consideration is a bad quality-- a flaw.

Selfishness is a flaw, so since they chose to be bad and not make a sensible choice, they were imperfect beforehand. Unless you can counter-argue this, you've admitted that they were imperfect even before their choice to take the advice of a talking serpent (arguably another flaw there).

Jesus being treated as a criminal and dying proved A&E could have remained loyal and he did it under more trying trials then A&E.A&E were not deprived of anything.....they chose their own independence of whats good and bad and it cost the human race.

Unless you can counter-argue what I wrote above, this is meaningless due to your god being at fault and not the human race.

Jehovah is the rightful sovereign of the universe and HE decides what is best for Him and his creation.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/tyrant

[hitch0403]

Falconer2...i am tired of saying this scripture but also i said it was in hebrews...its in James 1:14...start reading it with verse 12 thru 15 and maybe you will see being perfect and having free will mean you can still sin if you choose to do so.

Remember Jesus was tested and tried a lot harder then A&E and he didnt sin.Gods creation was perfect....no flaws in them...they chose to disobey,they could have chosen to obey as well.

You are looking for perfection as in a machine....sorry humans arent made that way.They are made in Gods image.

Sorry if you dont understand.Maybe its because you just dont want to.

[Falconer02]

i am tired of saying this scripture but also i said it was in hebrews...its in James 1:14...start reading it with verse 12 thru 15 and maybe you will see being perfect and having free will mean you can still sin if you choose to do so.

It still negates the meaning of perfection and thus is a major contradiction. If you're going to tell me achieving perfection has loopholes so you can not be perfect, then you will have to redefine the meaning of the word to fit in with your contradiction.

You are looking for perfection as in a machine....sorry humans arent made that way.They are made in Gods image.

Sorry if you dont understand.Maybe its because you just dont want to.

On the contrary- I'm the one using proper terminology and I've already explained the elementary contradiction you refuse to see. Perfection with flaws (or having the inability to reason out a flaw) is not perfection. Making an error or an unsound choice while in the state of perfection would mean you were never perfect in the first place. Even if you still can't wrap your head around this concept, we're arguing about 2 'perfect' people who were tricked by a magical talking snake. I thought perfection would come with some intelligence, but apparently not.

[hitch0403]

1st Corinth 13:4 gives best definition of love you can ever find.Being kind,not being jealous or bragging,not behaving indecently or looking just for its own interests takes having free will and a good heart conditon.

Perfection in your mind means automation.Jehovah created us so we can love and obey because we wanted to.Your way would mean they would love all the time automatically..............THEN IT WOULDNT BE LOVE.

You look to find fault in God because of A&E sin.They decided to rebel......they werent programmed to rebel or love automatically otherwsie they wouldnt have been human and made in Gods image.

Just like now.You only want to see this your way and not understand.You have that right but by design A&E could sin if they decided to just like Jesus could have done an act of worship to satan...BUT he decided NOT to.

[hitch0403]

And why did Jesus decide NOT to do an act of worship to satan?Because he loved Jehovah and knew it would be a sin to do so.He was perfect too but knew the truth and out of love he obeyed his father.

Jesus died also as a perfect man.The fact that he was perfect didnt mean he couldnt die.

Your way perfection would have meant indestruction.The sin A&E committed made them eventually grow old and die from Gods standards cos they dis-obeyed and keep on living love and obediance was required by them.Penalty of sin = death says bible.

[falcon9]

Just to show you i am a reasonable & fair person i enjoy discussing the bible etc but again if your stance on it is its just a myth and mine isnt the discussion will not go far and before you know we will be slinging mud.

None of your prior posts have contained evidence to support either of your dubious contentions, (regarding being neither "reasonable" nor "fair", under any rational meaning of those terms).  You have however, repeatedly affirmed that you're mainly here, (on the FC forums), to "witness"; which is a faith-based concept equated to proselytizing/propagandizing a religious belief and not to discuss/debate that subject reasonably or fairly.

 

[mom2taz]

No, I wasn't....my son and several other family members are or have been....sometimes I wish I had chosen that route.

[Falconer02]

Perfection in your mind means automation

I understand what you're saying but, again, you are using faulty reasoning. It would be knowing of potential flaws and avoiding them which would be a sign of 'perfect behavior'. Having the ability to make concious decisions in the right direction and knowing the wrong directions would not be the sign of a robot. Since A+E willingly made an error, they were both not perfect and not robots (arguably-- read below). It's not that hard to explain and you're now showing that you're avoiding the major flaw in your argument.

Jehovah created us so we can love and obey because we wanted to.

Blindly obeying something you cannot speak to, question, or see is robotic/drone behavior. Not to get off the subject, but you are displaying this behavior now seeing how you are not acknowledging potential flaws and just grinding downward for no reason.

Your way would mean they would love all the time automatically..............THEN IT WOULDNT BE LOVE.

That is also incorrect. If there was a known opposite of good behavior to these individuals, it could be avoided through intelligence. You would agree that intelligence and perfection go hand in hand, don't you? Therefore since they made such a laughable, ludicrous, and disasterous error of being fooled by a talking snake, they were not perfect to begin with.

You look to find fault in God because of A&E sin.They decided to rebel......they werent programmed to rebel or love automatically otherwsie they wouldnt have been human and made in Gods image.

A god who is all-powerful and all-knowing means everything was 'preprogrammed' from the start, so unless he's not all-knowing, you've unwillingly introduced another contradiction here.

You only want to see this your way and not understand.You have that right but by design A&E could sin if they decided to just like Jesus could have done an act of worship to satan...BUT he decided NOT to.

You are the one who is avoiding the problems and just saying things are "just because". You won't even acknowledge the definition of perfection. I'm explaining things through proper terminology, philosophy, and with an open mind and you're just spouting off an illogical argument of "Perfection can have/make dumb errors and still be labelled perfect".

[hitch0403]

Falconer2 you never understand cos your heart cant discern.Ive said this many times.....

God can see the future when He wants to...He also has control when He doesnt want to see it.

Sorry you dont understand.Your heart cant discern it cos its NOT right towards him.

[falcon9]

God can see the future when He wants to...He also has control when He doesnt want to see it.

Not only is that remark illogical, it relies on a logical fallacy of "appeal to authority", (not only that, the 'authority' appealed to has no evidentiary basis itself, making it invalid on two levels).  The conclusion that irrationality is the basis for blind religious faith is substantiated by reasoning since illogic substantiates nothing.

[stretch1967]

The people men and women served in our forces have fought for us. Be proud of the red white and blue. I dont look down on anyone that has a legit excuse. Be proud of yourself you atleast  you trie. There are alot that havent. God bless you and all of our servicemen and women.

[hitch0403]

I think Stretch just complimented me for passing my army physical and winning the lottery.

Sounds like hes trying to get those 30 posts in a hurry...LOL!!

[Falconer02]

God can see the future when He wants to...He also has control when He doesnt want to see it.

Making up ideas of how an all-powerful being can remove his powers? You're quite imaginative. If you're going to say this, show me in the bible where it specifically states how he can switch his powers on and off. If you're going to tell me it's implied, you've again run into faulty reasoning which further cripples your argument since it sounds childish.
Hitch: "Iron Man can't be defeated! He...uhh...pulls out his...lightsaber! Yeah! And he beats your superhero!"
Falcon: "Iron Man does not have a lightsaber. It never says anywhere he has a lightsaber. You're making it up."
Hitch: "He has one now! Iron Man wins by default!"

Sorry you dont understand.Your heart cant discern it cos its NOT right towards him.

I admit I don't understand your reasoning since it's majorly flawed. Falcon9 is correct about you using an appeal to authority fallacy here (god can't be wrong/Ironman can't lose even if someone spots a flaw) which backs you into a corner where you can only use childish reasonings. If you're going to attempt to learn something new, you're going to have a spin those gears in your mind and see that there's something majorly wrong with your argument. If there's something wrong with mine, please explain it logically. If you can't, just give thought to the faulty reasonings you are using.