Let's discuss Christianity versus Atheism (or others)

[narv]

NOTE: No fusioncash user should feel obligated to participate in (or continue in) this discussion.  I want to point a few things out, and if someone listens, that's great, but if not, I'm not going to force them to.
That said, I have a feeling that falcon9 will be very interested in this thread. 

Now, before we just come out and say any particular worldview is ludicrous, let me say that EVERY worldview is based on assumptions, and these assumptions determine the rest of the worldview via (usually) logical processes.

So, my worldview is based on assumptions including, but not limited to, the following:

• God is Omniscient and Omnipotent
• The Word of God (the Bible) is infallible and inerrant (aside from human error such as typos or translation errors).
• Our physical senses give us a reasonable guess as to the state and attributes of God's Creation (in other words, we can use science because all of what we perceive is not illusionary).

I could try to put together a list of assumptions for Atheism, but I would rather have y'all do that, and I might compare to what my guess would have been.

[falcon9]

NOTE: No fusioncash user should feel obligated to participate in (or continue in) this discussion.  I want to point a few things out, and if someone listens, that's great, but if not, I'm not going to force them to.

The disclaimer is a non sequitur; participation in any forum/thread remains optional.

That said, I have a feeling that falcon9 will be very interested in this thread.  

As it happens, any a priori assumption can be contended.

Now, before we just come out and say any particular worldview is ludicrous, let me say that EVERY worldview is based on assumptions, and these assumptions determine the rest of the worldview via (usually) logical processes.

There is extant evidence that a significant number of "wordview assumptions" are not based upon logical reasoning and instead, stem from more emotional/non-rational premises.  Especially assumptions made on the 'basis' of "faith", (which remains a belief sans evidence).

So, my worldview is based on assumptions including, but not limited to, the following:

• God is Omniscient and Omnipotent

No substantive and valid evidence supports such an assumptive claim.  Instead, it relies upon faith without evidence.

• The Word of God (the Bible) is infallible and inerrant (aside from human error such as typos or translation errors).

This assumptive claim is manifestly false as numerous contradictions, (not based upon translation/typo/specious "interpretations"), can be found not only in the variations extant but, in Dead Sea Scrolls omissions, (c.f., the council of nicea).

• Our physical senses give us a reasonable guess as to the state and attributes of God's Creation (in other words, we can use science because all of what we perceive is not illusionary).

No, there is no cause/effect or chain of reasoning which accurately "attributes" anything to the "g-d" assumption, (which consists of unsupported attributions based upon religious belief, rather than substantial evidence).

I could try to put together a list of assumptions for Atheism, but I would rather have y'all do that, and I might compare to what my guess would have been.

My 'assumptive' "guess" is that your "guess" consists of unsupported assumptions, (opinion sans evidentiary basis).  Should you actually produce an evidentiary basis, I'll retract the prediction, (which was a logical extrapolation based upon the unsupported assumptions contained in your post).

[hitch0403]

Hi Narv

Jesus didnt say to get into a debate with non-believers.He simply said take nothing from them and shake the dust offa your feet and move on to the next person that might wanna hear the truth about the kingdom of God.

There is a difference in discussing the bible with interested people and debating it with non-believers.Remember you preach the good word to help others NOT win a debate or reward for yourself.And you also please Jehovah too.Remember theres more happiness in giving then receiving Jesus said.

[Falconer02]

I could try to put together a list of assumptions for Atheism, but I would rather have y'all do that, and I might compare to what my guess would have been.

I'd personally like to see you put a list of assumptions together for atheism. It's important to note that the vast majority of atheists are agnostic atheists. This means that we know there isn't a logical argument for the existence of any defined deities and therefore worshipping something without evidence of it's existence is pointless. We are not saying that there are no gods/metaphysical beings/ super-powered aliens/ etc. since that would be arrogant behavior which would make us no better than the believers who claim to know something they have never been able to demonstrate (you cannot disprove a myth).

Since believers do not have an ounce of proof for their own personal deities, the believer's arguments are moot and cannot break the weak barrier of elementary skepticism. That's the only 'assumption' I can think of.

There is a difference in discussing the bible with interested people and debating it with non-believers.Remember you preach the good word to help others NOT win a debate or reward for yourself.And you also please Jehovah too.Remember theres more happiness in giving then receiving Jesus said.

Putting myself in xtian shoes, I imagine it would be important to debate people with opposing views since the general rules of xtianity state that those who do not submit their will to your god will be punished. However since you seem to be a JW, I know that this sect branches off from common xtian ideas into something different and rearranges many story elements in the bible.

[falcon9]

This is the "DEBATE & discussion" subforum.  There a difference between religious proselytizing, ("preaching" at people), and discussion - let alone debate, including challenges to religious assumptions and blind faith.  If you're here to proselytize and not debate/discuss, you're in teh wrong place, fundie.

Jesus didnt say to get into a debate with non-believers.He simply said take nothing from them and shake the dust offa your feet and move on to the next person that might wanna hear the truth about the kingdom of God.

There is a difference in discussing the bible with interested people and debating it with non-believers.Remember you preach the good word to help others NOT win a debate or reward for yourself.And you also please Jehovah too.

[hitch0403]

Putting myself in xtian shoes, I imagine it would be important to debate people with opposing views since the general rules of xtianity state that those who do not submit their will to your god will be punished. However since you seem to be a JW, I know that this sect branches off from common xtian ideas into something different and rearranges many story elements in the bible.


JW branch off from common xtian ideas?Would u mind explaining which ones?They adhere to the bible on all their teachings.Maybe its Christendom that branches off from the bible.And if Jehovah is the rightfull ruler i would think eventaully he wouldnt permit a chaotic universe such is now.....but thats why hes allowed it to prove without his rulership it is chaotic.

[falcon9]

JW branch off from common xtian ideas?Would u mind explaining which ones?

"Jehovah's Witnesses is a millenialist restorationist Christian denomination with nontrinitarian beliefs distinct from mainstream Christianity.  The group emerged from the Bible Student movement—founded in the late 1870s by Charles Taze Russell with the formation of Zion's Watch Tower Tract Society—with significant organizational and doctrinal changes under the leadership of Joseph Franklin Rutherford."
--http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovah_witness excerpt

[hitch0403]

You didnt give me an example so ill have to give u 1.Im NOT interested in what mankind says about JWs.Jesus said to his true followers the world will hate you cos of me.

Heres an example of following the bible principals and Chrisendom not.

Jesus died on the Jewish calendar Nisan 14.That day is different every year with our present day calendar.He told his disciples at the supper to keep memorializing this day cos of the significance his death will have on mankind.Christendom doesnt memorialize that.Instead they color easter eggs and buy easter outfits and talk about the easter bunny.

Hope that helps.

[falcon9]

Im NOT interested in what mankind says about JWs.

In some kind of synchronistic parallel, mankind doesn't appear interested in what some self-deluded jw says about those who aren't mind-blinded.

[hitch0403]

You are correct.Jesus said the road was narrow to life and broad and spacious was the road off to destruction which many will follow.

[falcon9]

You are correct.Jesus said the road was narrow ...

Only in the 'myopic view' of narrow-minded blind-faithers.

"Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions."
-- Frater Ravus

[hitch0403]

Heaven and earth will pass away....my words will never

Jesus Christ

[falcon9]

Hearsay, (especially that which contains irrational content), is neither debating or discussing, fundie.  Self-referential/circular 'biblical' quotes are rejected as non-evidentiary hearsay.  You're just proselytizing your religious cult.  I'm just pointing that out.

Heaven and earth will pass away....my words will never
Jesus Christ

[Falconer02]

JW branch off from common xtian ideas?Would u mind explaining which ones?

Well for basics it's the concepts of hell and eternal damnation. Then there's holidays. Though christians outright stole many of the present-day mainstream holidays, JW's practice abstaining from traditional celebrations that have been celebrated for centuries. I could go on. If you want to get technical and see a list of mistranslations in the NWT, here's a few-

http://4jehovah.org/jehovahs-witness-nwt-errors.php

.Im NOT interested in what mankind says about JWs

You must understand that if you truly believe that your beliefs are infallible without demonstrating how they are infallible, you are the very definition of deluded. This is not an insult. This is informing. This type of mindset is what has plagued mankind for ages. Some of the worst atrocities in history were caused by people who followed the same philosophy. I strongly encourage you to think outside of the circular logic (the bible is correct because the bible says so) that seems to plague xtianity and it's various sects.

[hitch0403]

Falcon2...i was brought up a catholic.Even at a young age i had a hard time believing a loving God could punish people forever in hell.When we examine the bible NOT true.God told Adam at death he would go back to dust.Scriptures back it up...death=non-existence.The trinity....the bible doesnt support that either.Jesus said the father is greater then i.So how are they supposed to be the same then?Xmas.Jesus NEVER said to celebrate his birthday only remember his death.12/25 a pagan celebration.

The truth will set you free from all this BS.Obviously many dont wanna be set free but use the BS to gain and prey on the vulnerability of many.

Now as i use the bible to back up what i say i realize many will only go back to sq 1 and and dis-credit it.So why bother even commenting to me?You cant back up its not truth either.You quote saying from imperfect men etc.Why dont you quote something Mahat Ghandi said about Jesus sermon on the mount?And Ghandi was an atheist.

So i take it that you and a host of others that side with you back up what bible says.There is no Jehovah and let us eat drink and be merry for tomorrow we die.Where as the bible holds out a hope for mankind for the enemy death.

Do you seriously think Jehovahs people are in over 250 lands preaching Gods kingdom in vain?

Many and most are free to reject it.God didnt create man as an automated machine otherwise love wouldnt exist.And BTW you might wanna look up love in Corinthians and see its real meaning and also look up faith in the bible as well.Its there too.

Thank you for giving me the chance to defend Jehovah as universal sovereign and rightful ruler of universe.