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Falconer02

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Re: What Is Your Evidence?
« Reply #180 on: August 09, 2012, 09:21:05 pm »
Quote
The source is tainted by religious bias and uses dubious biblical references, (verse-quoting), to bolster weaking reasoning.

Quote
Unless you have more you are working on, I've noticed you don't really have much refuting to say.  There's more truth to much of that than you would even care to admit to.

I'll take a quick shot at it. It points to prophecies being fulfilled which are not actual prophecies and are self-referential. When you work on a story (especially in fiction), it's important for authors to write a rough draft, then reread it and make more events connect for characters and their environments. Terms like exposition, poetry, and foreshadowing should come to mind. Authors do this all the time and it sometimes takes them decades to get all the nuts and bolts in place to create a good story. Considering the bible has been edited and rewritten many times throughout history, it's practical to conclude that this is the case (unless you can provide non-xtian sources saying otherwise). The odd thing is that even though it has been edited through centuries, it's still written pretty poorly considering the wordiness and the ignorance of obvious faults. The amount of assumptions the author of your article uses makes me scratch my head.

"Another favorite example of a biblical contradiction relates to Genesis 1 and 2. Some claim these are two contradictory creation accounts, but they can be harmonized when we notice two things: (1) Genesis 1 is a general survey of the six days of creation, and Genesis 2 is a more detailed account of the sixth day of creation"

Harmonized when you assume things. It's not written as a general survey of the six days-- it states that that's how they happened in that order and nothing more. When you start making up ideas of how to read things, you can make the bible (or any book) say anything you want! And that's generally how xtians get away with murder (both metaphorically and literally).

The prophecies are another jumbled mess-- the whole Tyre thing?
"But the mainland city was never rebuilt (26:14), and today it remains a bare rock upon which fishermen spread their nets to dry (26:5,14)."

Here's how Tyre looks today-


More information and pictures here-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyre,_Lebanon

So obviously the biblical prophecy is not true and therefore this book is fallible (or outdated with its prophecies...). Unless I didn't read the scriptures the same way you read it and missed out on some important assumption?

This article is pretty long, so I'm just going to end it on the science part- the bible is not a science book regardless that the article says it's "trustworthy". This article tries to promote things that were proven fallible back in the 70's (2nd law of thermodynamics argument for instance). We've been over these xtian lies in the past in great detail, so it's either you couldn't remember the basics of them or you're simply ignoring the problems. I'll just say this- can you really trust a book as a scientific source when it talks about light being created before light sources being created,  50+ mile-high floods, a talking serpent, talking donkey, and people living for centuries at a time? To say yes is an admittance to having a completely delusional mind since it goes against the very definition of science. The whole article is just a gigantic blunder of oxymoron statements and cannot be trusted as reliable.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2012, 09:37:04 pm by Falconer02 »

falcon9

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Re: What Is Your Evidence?
« Reply #181 on: August 09, 2012, 10:56:39 pm »
Do you want me ...

No, though you're too "impolite" to simply bugger-off so, occassionally I'll ignore your ad homs and sometimes I won't.

One can lead a horse to water however, if one holds the horse's head under, that horse will drown.

             

jcribb16

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Re: What Is Your Evidence?
« Reply #182 on: August 10, 2012, 01:42:56 pm »
Quote
The source is tainted by religious bias and uses dubious biblical references, (verse-quoting), to bolster weaking reasoning.

Quote
Unless you have more you are working on, I've noticed you don't really have much refuting to say.  There's more truth to much of that than you would even care to admit to.

I'll take a quick shot at it. It points to prophecies being fulfilled which are not actual prophecies and are self-referential. When you work on a story (especially in fiction), it's important for authors to write a rough draft, then reread it and make more events connect for characters and their environments. Terms like exposition, poetry, and foreshadowing should come to mind. Authors do this all the time and it sometimes takes them decades to get all the nuts and bolts in place to create a good story. Considering the bible has been edited and rewritten many times throughout history, it's practical to conclude that this is the case (unless you can provide non-xtian sources saying otherwise). The odd thing is that even though it has been edited through centuries, it's still written pretty poorly considering the wordiness and the ignorance of obvious faults. The amount of assumptions the author of your article uses makes me scratch my head.

"Another favorite example of a biblical contradiction relates to Genesis 1 and 2. Some claim these are two contradictory creation accounts, but they can be harmonized when we notice two things: (1) Genesis 1 is a general survey of the six days of creation, and Genesis 2 is a more detailed account of the sixth day of creation"

Harmonized when you assume things. It's not written as a general survey of the six days-- it states that that's how they happened in that order and nothing more. When you start making up ideas of how to read things, you can make the bible (or any book) say anything you want! And that's generally how xtians get away with murder (both metaphorically and literally).

The prophecies are another jumbled mess-- the whole Tyre thing?
"But the mainland city was never rebuilt (26:14), and today it remains a bare rock upon which fishermen spread their nets to dry (26:5,14)."

Here's how Tyre looks today-


More information and pictures here-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyre,_Lebanon

So obviously the biblical prophecy is not true and therefore this book is fallible (or outdated with its prophecies...). Unless I didn't read the scriptures the same way you read it and missed out on some important assumption?

This article is pretty long, so I'm just going to end it on the science part- the bible is not a science book regardless that the article says it's "trustworthy". This article tries to promote things that were proven fallible back in the 70's (2nd law of thermodynamics argument for instance). We've been over these xtian lies in the past in great detail, so it's either you couldn't remember the basics of them or you're simply ignoring the problems. I'll just say this- can you really trust a book as a scientific source when it talks about light being created before light sources being created,  50+ mile-high floods, a talking serpent, talking donkey, and people living for centuries at a time? To say yes is an admittance to having a completely delusional mind since it goes against the very definition of science. The whole article is just a gigantic blunder of oxymoron statements and cannot be trusted as reliable.

Science and the Bible
   
The Bible is not a science book, yet it is scientifically accurate. We are not aware of any scientific evidence that contradicts the Bible. We have listed statements on this page that are consistent with known scientific facts. Many of them were listed in the Bible hundreds or even thousands of years before being recorded elsewhere. Many concepts and notes on this page are adapted from ideas and statements that appear in The DEFENDER’S Study Bible.[1]
Paleontology Statements Consistent With Paleontology

    Dinosaurs are referred to in several Bible books. The book of Job describes two dinosaurs. One is described in chapter 40 starting at verse 15, and the other in chapter 41 starting at verse 1. We think you will agree that 1½ chapters about dinosaurs is a lot—since most people do not even realize that they are mentioned in the Bible. (Actually reading the Bible would help, though. smile ) Click this sentence to see our Dinosaurs page if you would like more information in this subject area.

Astronomy Statements Consistent With Astronomy

    The Bible frequently refers to the great number of stars in the heavens. Here are two examples.

        Genesis 22:17
        Blessing I will bless you, and multiplying I will multiply your descendants as the stars of the heaven and as the sand which is on the seashore; and your descendants shall possess the gate of their enemies.
        Jeremiah 33:22
        “As the host of heaven cannot be numbered, nor the sand of the sea measured, so will I multiply the descendants of David My servant and the Levites who minister to Me.”

    Even today, scientists admit that they do not know how many stars there are. Only about 3,000 can be seen with the naked eye. We have seen estimates of 1021 stars—which is a lot of stars.[2] (The number of grains of sand on the earth’s seashores is estimated to be 1025. As scientists discover more stars, wouldn’t it be interesting to discover that these two numbers match?)
    The Bible also says that each star is unique.

        1 Corinthians 15:41
        There is one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differs from another star in glory.

    All stars look alike to the naked eye.* Even when seen through a telescope, they seem to be just points of light. However, analysis of their light spectra reveals that each is unique and different from all others.[1] (*Note: We understand that people can perceive some slight difference in color and apparent brightness when looking at stars with the naked eye, but we would not expect a person living in the first century A.D. to claim they differ from one another.)
   
The Bible describes the precision of movement in the universe.

        Jeremiah 31:35,36
        Thus says the LORD,
        Who gives the sun for a light by day,
        The ordinances of the moon and the stars for a light by night,
        Who disturbs the sea,
        And its waves roar
        (The LORD of hosts is His name):
        “If those ordinances depart
        From before Me, says the LORD,
        Then the seed of Israel shall also cease
        From being a nation before Me forever.”

    The Bible describes the suspension of the Earth in space.

        Job 26:7
        He stretches out the north over empty space;
        He hangs the earth on nothing.

www.clarifyingchristianity.com/b_proof.shtml

jcribb16

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Re: What Is Your Evidence?
« Reply #183 on: August 10, 2012, 01:45:37 pm »
Statements Consistent With Meteorology

    The Bible describes the circulation of the atmosphere.

        Ecclesiastes 1:6
        The wind goes toward the south,
        And turns around to the north;
        The wind whirls about continually,
        And comes again on its circuit.

    The Bible includes some principles of fluid dynamics.

        Job 28:25
        To establish a weight for the wind,
        And apportion the waters by measure.

    The fact that air has weight was proven scientifically only about 300 years ago. The relative weights of air and water are needed for the efficient functioning of the world’s hydrologic cycle, which in turn sustains life on the earth.[1] (If you are a physics enthusiast, please ignore our omission of the terms mass, gravity, and density from this comment.)

Biology Statements Consistent With Biology

    The book of Leviticus (written prior to 1400 BC) describes the value of blood.

        Leviticus 17:11
        ‘For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you upon the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood that makes atonement for the soul.’

    The blood carries water and nourishment to every cell, maintains the body’s temperature, and removes the waste material of the body’s cells. The blood also carries oxygen from the lungs throughout the body. In 1616, William Harvey discovered that blood circulation is the key factor in physical life—confirming what the Bible revealed 3,000 years earlier.[1]
   
The Bible describes biogenesis (the development of living organisms from other living organisms) and the stability of each kind of living organism.

        Genesis 1:11,12
        Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb that yields seed, and the fruit tree that yields fruit according to its kind, whose seed is in itself, on the earth”; and it was so. And the earth brought forth grass, the herb that yields seed according to its kind, and the tree that yields fruit, whose seed is in itself according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.
        Genesis 1:21
        So God created great sea creatures and every living thing that moves, with which the waters abounded, according to their kind, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.
        Genesis 1:25
        And God made the beast of the earth according to its kind, cattle according to its kind, and everything that creeps on the earth according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.

    The phrase “according to its kind” occurs repeatedly, stressing the reproductive integrity of each kind of animal and plant. Today we know this occurs because all of these reproductive systems are programmed by their genetic codes.[1]
   
The Bible describes the chemical nature of flesh.

        Genesis 2:7
        And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.
        Genesis 3:19
        In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread
        Till you return to the ground,
        For out of it you were taken;
        For dust you are,
        And to dust you shall return.

   It is a proven fact that a person’s mental and spiritual health is strongly correlated with physical health.[1] The Bible revealed this to us with these statements (and others) written by King Solomon about 950 BC.

        Proverbs 12:4
        An excellent wife is the crown of her husband,
        But she who causes shame is like rottenness in his bones.
        Proverbs 14:30
        A sound heart is life to the body,
        But envy is rottenness to the bones.
        Proverbs 15:30
        The light of the eyes rejoices the heart,
        And a good report makes the bones healthy.
        Proverbs 16:24
        Pleasant words are like a honeycomb,
        Sweetness to the soul and health to the bones.
        Proverbs 17:22
        A merry heart does good, like medicine,
        But a broken spirit dries the bones.

www.clarifyingchristianity.com/b_proof.shtml

falcon9

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Re: What Is Your Evidence?
« Reply #184 on: August 10, 2012, 01:49:34 pm »
When you start making up ideas of how to read things, you can make the bible (or any book) say anything you want! And that's generally how xtians get away with murder (both metaphorically and literally).

"Science and the Bible
Many concepts and notes on this page are adapted from ideas and statements that appear in The DEFENDER’S Study Bible."

www.clarifyingchristianity.com/b_proof.shtml

The source is tainted by religious bias and uses dubious biblical references, (verse-quoting), to bolster weak non-reasoning.  It is also a ducking behind the cover of an apologetic source in order to pretend to be "debating" when simply cut & pasting.

"If you could reason with religious people, there would be no religious people."
-- Gregory House
One can lead a horse to water however, if one holds the horse's head under, that horse will drown.

             

jcribb16

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Re: What Is Your Evidence?
« Reply #185 on: August 10, 2012, 01:49:57 pm »
Statements Consistent With Anthropology

    We have cave paintings and other evidence that people inhabited caves. The Bible also describes cave men.

        Job 30:5,6
        They were driven out from among men,
        They shouted at them as at a thief.
        They had to live in the clefts of the valleys,
        In caves of the earth and the rocks.

    Note that these were not ape-men, but descendants of those who scattered from Babel. They were driven from the community by those tribes who competed successfully for the more desirable regions of the earth. Then for some reason they deteriorated mentally, physically, and spiritually.[1]

Hydrology Statements Consistent With Hydrology

    The bible includes reasonably complete descriptions of the hydrologic cycle.[3]

        Psalm 135:7
        He causes the vapors to ascend from the ends of the earth;
        He makes lightning for the rain;
        He brings the wind out of His treasuries.
        Jeremiah 10:13
        When He utters His voice,
        There is a multitude of waters in the heavens:
        “And He causes the vapors to ascend from the ends of the earth.
        He makes lightning for the rain,
        He brings the wind out of His treasuries.”

    In these verses you can see several phases of the hydrologic cycle—the worldwide processes of evaporation, translation aloft by atmospheric circulation, condensation with electrical discharges, and precipitation.[1]

        Job 36:27-29
        For He draws up drops of water,
        Which distill as rain from the mist,
        Which the clouds drop down
        And pour abundantly on man.
        Indeed, can anyone understand the spreading of clouds,
        The thunder from His canopy?

    This simple verse has remarkable scientific insight. The drops of water which eventually pour down as rain first become vapor and then condense to tiny liquid water droplets in the clouds. These finally coalesce into drops large enough to overcome the updrafts that suspend them in the air.[1]
    
The Bible describes the recirculation of water.

        Ecclesiastes 1:7
        All the rivers run into the sea,
        Yet the sea is not full;
        To the place from which the rivers come,
        There they return again.
        Isaiah 55:10
        For as the rain comes down, and the snow from heaven,
        And do not return there,
        But water the earth,
        And make it bring forth and bud,
        That it may give seed to the sower
        And bread to the eater,
    
The Bible refers to the surprising amount of water that can be held as condensation in clouds.

        Job 26:8
        He binds up the water in His thick clouds,
        Yet the clouds are not broken under it.
        Job 37:11
        Also with moisture He saturates the thick clouds;
        He scatters His bright clouds.
 
   Hydrothermal vents[4] are described in two books of the Bible written before 1400BC—more than 3,000 years before their discovery by science.

        Genesis 7:11
        In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep were broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.
        Job 38:16
        Have you entered the springs of the sea?
        Or have you walked in search of the depths?

    We discuss the “fountains of the great deep” further in our Creation Versus Evolution page.

Geology Statements Consistent With Geology

   The Bible describes the Earth’s crust (along with a comment on astronomy).

        Jeremiah 31:37
        Thus says the LORD:
        “If heaven above can be measured,
        And the foundations of the earth searched out beneath,
        I will also cast off all the seed of Israel
        For all that they have done, says the LORD.”

    Although some scientists claim that they have now measured the size of the universe, it is interesting to note that every human attempt to drill through the earth’s crust to the plastic mantle beneath has, thus far, ended in failure.[1]
  
 The Bible described the shape of the earth centuries before people thought that the earth was spherical.

        Isaiah 40:22
        It is He who sits above the circle of the earth,
        And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers,
        Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain,
        And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.

    The word translated “circle” here is the Hebrew word chuwg which is also translated “circuit,” or “compass” (depending on the context). That is, it indicates something spherical, rounded, or arched—not something that is flat or square.

    The book of Isaiah was written sometime between 740 and 680 BC. This is at least 300 years before Aristotle suggested that the earth might be a sphere in this book On the Heavens.

    This brings up an important historical note related to this topic. Many people are aware of the conflict between Galileo and the Roman Catholic Pope, Paul V. After publishing A Dialogue on the Two Principal Systems of the World, Galileo was summoned to Rome, where he was forced to renounce his findings. (At that time, “theologians” of the Roman Catholic Church maintained that the Earth was the center of the universe, and to assert otherwise was deemed heretical.)

    We could not find any place in the Bible that claims that the Earth is flat, or that it is the center of the universe. History shows that this conflict, which took place at the time of the Inquisition, was part of a power struggle. As a result, scientific and biblical knowledge became casualties—an effect we still feel to this day.

www.clarifyingchristianity.com/b_proof.shtml

jcribb16

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Re: What Is Your Evidence?
« Reply #186 on: August 10, 2012, 01:52:19 pm »
Statements Consistent With Physics

    The Bible suggests the presence of nuclear processes like those we associate with nuclear weaponry. This is certainly not something that could have been explained in 67 AD using known scientific principles (when Peter wrote the following verse).

        2 Peter 3:10
        But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.
    The television is a practical (if not always worthwhile smile ) device that uses electromagnetic waves (which transmit its video signal). The Bible contains passages that describe something like television—something that allows everyone on earth see a single event. (Note: such passages typically refer to the end of time. It may not be long before all of us learn for sure whether the Bible is true or not.)

        Matthew 24:30
        Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
        Revelation 11:9-11
        Then those from the peoples, tribes, tongues, and nations will see their dead bodies three-and-a-half days, and not allow their dead bodies to be put into graves. And those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them, make merry, and send gifts to one another, because these two prophets tormented those who dwell on the earth. Now after the three-and-a-half days the breath of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet, and great fear fell on those who saw them.

Things In The Bible That Science Can Not Explain

The purpose of this page is not to explain what a great science text the Bible is, but to show that it is consistent with scientific facts. Still, the Bible mentions some things that we can not explain. Yet, if God is really God, He should have the ability to do some things we can not explain.

In the last 100 years (and especially in the last ten) scientists discovered many proofs that confirm the Bible’s accuracy. Since these proofs support the accuracy of the text we can understand scientifically, it makes sense to trust the Bible’s text that we can not yet understand. (For example, how many people knew what hydrothermal vents were 30 years ago?) If you would like to see the proof we have for the accuracy of the Bible, click on the link below.
Click here to learn some facts that confirm the Bible's accuracy How Do You Know The Bible Is True?

References
[1] The DEFENDER’S Study Bible, Word Publishing, Grand Rapids, Michigan (1995).
[2] The Number of Stars
[3] The Hydrologic Cycle
[4] Submarine Volcanic Ecosystems (An article on hydrothermal vents.)


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falcon9

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Re: What Is Your Evidence?
« Reply #187 on: August 10, 2012, 01:52:43 pm »
        Ecclesiastes 1:6
         Job 28:25
         Leviticus 17:11
         Genesis 1:11,12
         Genesis 1:21
         Genesis 1:25
         www.clarifyingchristianity.com/b_proof.shtml

Retroactive force-fitted reinterpretations of bliblical verses do not constitute valid evidence.  
One can lead a horse to water however, if one holds the horse's head under, that horse will drown.

             

falcon9

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Re: What Is Your Evidence?
« Reply #188 on: August 10, 2012, 01:53:34 pm »
www.clarifyingchristianity.com/b_proof.shtml

Retroactive force-fitted reinterpretations of bliblical verses do not constitute valid evidence.
One can lead a horse to water however, if one holds the horse's head under, that horse will drown.

             

falcon9

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Re: What Is Your Evidence?
« Reply #189 on: August 10, 2012, 01:53:57 pm »
www.clarifyingchristianity.com/b_proof.shtml

Retroactive force-fitted reinterpretations of bliblical verses do not constitute valid evidence.
One can lead a horse to water however, if one holds the horse's head under, that horse will drown.

             

jcribb16

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Re: What Is Your Evidence?
« Reply #190 on: August 10, 2012, 01:55:51 pm »
The Proof of Prophecy

One of the strongest arguments for the accuracy of the Bible is its 100% accuracy in predicting the future. These future predictions are called “prophecies.” The Old Testament was written between approximately 1450 BC and 430 BC. During that time, many predictions of the future were recorded in the Bible by God�s prophets. Of the events that were to have taken place by now, every one happened just the way they predicted it would. No other “sacred writing” has such perfectly accurate predictions of the future.

One Type—The Messianic Prophecies

Of these prophecies, the most striking examples are the predictions about an �anointed one� (�Messiah� in Hebrew) who was to arrive in the future. About 4 BC, a miraculous event occurred—a boy named Jesus was born to a virgin named Mary. You can read His story in the book of Luke. Starting at age 30, Jesus fulfilled more and more of these prophecies written about the Messiah. His fulfillment of these prophecies was very spectacular: Jesus gave sight to the blind, made the lame walk, cured those who had leprosy, gave the deaf hearing, and raised people from the dead! These miracles and others were done many times in front of thousands of witnesses for three years. About 30 AD, Jesus was crucified (a prophecy) and died (a prophecy). Three days later he rose from the dead (another prophecy), after which He was seen by over 500 witnesses. Since these prophecies were written down at least 400 years before they happened, there is no doubt that the Bible�s writers were inspired supernaturally—by God. To examine these prophecies yourself, click on the link below.

 The Messianic Prophecies
A Second Type—Fulfilled Prophecy Dealing With Nations


There are many prophecies that can be proven through archaeology, especially prophecy dealing with entire nations. Typically, when God declared judgment on a nation, He would send a prophet to announce to the citizens why He was judging them and what He was going to do to them if they continued their evil behavior. On occasion, God would also tell the citizens how He would reward them if they started doing what was right. The book of Jonah records a case where the Assyrians stopped doing what was evil as a result of Jonah�s short prophecy. This is what God wanted, and God did not punish them as a result of their change of heart. However, most often the people would jeer at God�s prophet and continue their bad behavior—later becoming recipients of the exact punishment that God threatened.

Like other prophecy recorded in the Bible, these predictions support the supernatural inspiration of the Bible. The prophecies recorded in the Bible came true in such a detailed way that they could not have been predicted by chance. Further, archaeologists have evidence that these prophecies were written down many years before they were fulfilled, proving that they were not falsified documents claiming to be prophecies that came true. (The discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls stopped the majority of that talk.) Although an entire web site could be filled with this information, we will provide one example—the foretelling of the destruction of Edom and its capital city of Petra.

 Click here for an example of fulfilled prophecy dealing with nations

The Proof of Textual Evidence

Both the Old and New Testaments are strongly supported by manuscript evidence (the evidence of early hand written copies). The famous Dead Sea Scrolls are one example of the Old Testament evidence. These documents came from the “library” of a settlement founded at Qumran before 150 B.C. and abandoned about 68 A.D. Some of the manuscript copies were made during that period, and some were written earlier (third century BC) and brought to the settlement. Ignoring spelling-oriented (orthographic) changes and similar small differences, the Dead Sea Scrolls match the Hebrew text behind today�s Old Testament, in spite of the passage of over 2,000 years (where one would expect errors to creep in).

Over 20,000 known manuscripts document the New Testament text. This makes the New Testament the most reliable document of antiquity (a document written before the printing press). These manuscripts vary in size from a part of a page to an entire Bible (Old and New Testaments). The earliest New Testament manuscripts date from the second century (100-199) AD These manuscript copies were written in different languages by people of different nationalities, cultures, and backgrounds. In spite of all those differences between them, the New Testament texts all agree. (That is, those differences that we do observe between these hand written documents are occasional changes in the spelling of names or isolated cases of missing or changed words. Still, since we have so many copies, it is obvious to anyone but the hardened skeptic can that they all represent the same text.)

    Note: Those minor differences that do exist between the Old and New Testament manuscripts are interesting for academic reasons. They are the topic of a future �in depth� Clarifying Christianity page. (It is currently about 10,000 words long and still under construction—stay tuned.)

The Proof of People Living at the Time of Christ


Special proof exists for the New Testament, since Christians were strongly persecuted by both the Jews and the Roman government. If the New Testament writings were false, these two groups would have produced a great deal of evidence to stop the growth of this �sect.� None exists. Further, the New Testament writings (before they were assembled into the �book� we call the New Testament) circulated during the lifetimes of thousands of people who had actually seen Jesus� miracles and other historic events. No one ever refuted the New Testament writings as �fairy tales.�
The Proof of Historians


Secular history supports the Bible.


For example, in The Antiquities of the Jews, book 18, chapter 3, paragraph 3 the famous historian Flavius Josephus writes:

    “Now, there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works—a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews, and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ; and when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him, for he appeared to them alive again the third day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him; and the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day.”

In 115 AD, P. Cornelius Tacitus wrote the following passage that refers to Jesus (called �Christus,� which means �The Messiah�) in book 15, chapter 44 of The Annals:

    “Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular. Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then, upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind. Mockery of every sort was added to their deaths. Covered with the skins of beasts, they were torn by dogs and perished, or were nailed to crosses, or were doomed to the flames and burnt, to serve as a nightly illumination, when daylight had expired.”


www.clarifyingchristianity.com/b_proof.shtml

jcribb16

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Re: What Is Your Evidence?
« Reply #191 on: August 10, 2012, 02:05:16 pm »
When you start making up ideas of how to read things, you can make the bible (or any book) say anything you want! And that's generally how xtians get away with murder (both metaphorically and literally).

"Science and the Bible
Many concepts and notes on this page are adapted from ideas and statements that appear in The DEFENDER’S Study Bible."

www.clarifyingchristianity.com/b_proof.shtml

The source is tainted by religious bias and uses dubious biblical references, (verse-quoting), to bolster weak non-reasoning.  It is also a ducking behind the cover of an apologetic source in order to pretend to be "debating" when simply cut & pasting.

"If you could reason with religious people, there would be no religious people."
-- Gregory House
Even though I know Falconer02 does not agree with me on this topic, he still takes the time like he did in a previous post, to still discuss it, add to it, and then still give his reasons for still not agreeing it.  Though there may be similar phrases he uses to Christians as you do, he is not being hateful, like you are.  You automatically use your same old words of cut-off, over and over, with no opportunity of discussing or sharing our disagreements.
 
Debates in these kinds of forums do not follow the strict rules of debate learned in college, or even high school.  Copying and pasting is not a no-no in here, and many times gives way more info than the poster can.  Besides, you have been copying and pasting many of your "usual" responses and quotes that you come back with to others.  So you really have no room to talk.

Finally, because of what I just wrote in the first paragraph, I wasn't answering you directly, since Falconer02 is the one who showed the more mature side of actually responding to what I "simply cut and pasted."  So, essentially, I was responding to him. 

falcon9

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Re: What Is Your Evidence?
« Reply #192 on: August 10, 2012, 02:06:32 pm »
"Like other prophecy recorded in the Bible, these predictions support the supernatural inspiration of the Bible."
www.clarifyingchristianity.com/b_proof.shtml


Retroactive force-fitted reinterpretations of bliblical verses do not constitute valid evidence. These do not, in fact, "support the supernatural inspiration of the bible", (in what would be a circular, self-referential way).
One can lead a horse to water however, if one holds the horse's head under, that horse will drown.

             

falcon9

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Re: What Is Your Evidence?
« Reply #193 on: August 10, 2012, 02:17:26 pm »
Even though I know Falconer02 does not agree with me on this topic, he still takes the time like he did in a previous post, to still discuss it, add to it, and then still give his reasons for still not agreeing it.  Though there may be similar phrases he uses to Christians as you do, he is not being hateful, like you are. 

I'd previously taken, (wasted), my time refuting your non-evidentiary, faith-based attempts to replace valid evidence with 'religious beliefs'.  It soon became apparent that this did not induce you to "debate" but, merely to keep hucking-up force-fitted biblical quotes and blind-faith based empty assertions, (sans tangible evidence).  While you are free to engage in such disingenious non-debating, (for instance, whining about discerning blind faith as being belief without evidence by calling such a conclusion "rude" and such without rebutting the premise).

You automatically use your same old words of cut-off, over and over, with no opportunity of discussing or sharing our disagreements.

You'd squandered previous opportunities to "debate" by repetitiously requoting specious "biblical verses" (un)supported by blind faith in lieu of rational/logical evidence.  Since that became evident by your continued posts in that manner of dodging by invoking blind faith, it was deemed a waste of rationality to continuously refute such religious irrationality.
One can lead a horse to water however, if one holds the horse's head under, that horse will drown.

             

Falconer02

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Re: What Is Your Evidence?
« Reply #194 on: August 10, 2012, 02:25:47 pm »
Quote
The Bible is not a science book, yet it is scientifically accurate. We are not aware of any scientific evidence that contradicts the Bible. We have listed statements on this page that are consistent with known scientific facts. Many of them were listed in the Bible hundreds or even thousands of years before being recorded elsewhere. Many concepts and notes on this page are adapted from ideas and statements that appear in The DEFENDER’S Study Bible.[1]

I did make the mistake of saying it's not a science book as the article says, but I've already proven that the bible is not scientifically accurate numerous times in the past. Your cut/paste techniques are pretty pointless since you've already displayed your ignorance by not doing your own unbiased research which proves that you're intellectually dishonest and cannot be trusted in these types of debates (that's not christian behavior...). Though it's a waste of time since your sources have already shown humongous holes, I will skim and clip a few to show that these sources are still wrong on several accounts-

Paleontology Statements Consistent With Paleontology

    Dinosaurs are referred to in several Bible books. The book of Job describes two dinosaurs. One is described in chapter 40 starting at verse 15, and the other in chapter 41 starting at verse 1. We think you will agree that 1½ chapters about dinosaurs is a lot—since most people do not even realize that they are mentioned in the Bible. (Actually reading the Bible would help, though. smile ) Click this sentence to see our Dinosaurs page if you would like more information in this subject area.


"Behemoth" and "Leviathan" are both mythological creatures that resemble modern-day animals. Don't you find it peculiar that only the creationists believe the bible interprets them as dinosaurs?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behemoth
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leviathan

Only a complete fool would say that Jurrasic dinosaurs lived alongside humans only a few thousand years ago.

Quote
The Bible describes biogenesis (the development of living organisms from other living organisms) and the stability of each kind of living organism.

So life goes from primordeal ooze, to grass, to cattle?  :dontknow:

Quote
Ecclesiastes 1:6
        The wind goes toward the south,
        And turns around to the north;
        The wind whirls about continually,
        And comes again on its circuit.

Actually a simple search will show that most winds travel pretty randomly (ultimately they travel west to east), but that's just a blunt point. We'd have to take the Yamartino method into consideration to accurately get the technical data, which I doubt this ancient text talks about.

All in all, you've posted really poor sources full of deceit and lies which can easily be refuted with simple searches. The explanations are based merely on assumptions. Or, as Falcon9 puts it-
Quote
Retroactive force-fitted reinterpretations of bliblical verses do not constitute valid evidence. 
« Last Edit: August 10, 2012, 02:34:22 pm by Falconer02 »

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