Re logical existence of God

[Abrupt]

Our existence is illogical on every count

Illogical was the correct word in my instance, but it's not in this one. Anthropic principle and yadda, yadda.

Well please go on then as I am most curious to hear more of a reason than you citing of a deus ex machina.

If our existence is finite (as is implied) and the universe's existence is finite then our existence is 'imaginary' and it would be true to say that in such a place our state would eventually become "never existed"

How do you figure that? Our longevity has nothing to do with the universe's. Something is not "imaginary" just because it is fleeting (dead pets and grandmas can attest to this). Just because on a grand scale it makes no difference whether you existed at all does not mean you didn't actually exist at one point in time.

It is most certainly tied into our universe's existence.  Realize, that if our universe ceases, then it isn't simply that the record of us ceases it is actually true to say that we never existed as we only 'ever existed' within the space time of our universe and not outside it.

we have placed an age upon the universe and such dispels any pretense of an infinite existence

No it doesn't! We have placed an age on this universe, the current one. That by no means discounts previous universes or multiple universes.

Again, you may not quite appreciate your own proposal here (I mean this as no insult as the speculation on the event challenges the actuality suggested by the possibility).  As a bit of a paradox along the lines of what you are saying, suppose there was a previous universe that no longer exists and that there were inhabitants of such a universe...well, they never existed -- they existed within their own time space and it is no more and with it is the 'record' of it.  By 'record' I am not simply saying 'proof' I am saying that it only existed within itself and no further (except if there is an infinite anchor/external observer/etc) -- unless you are suggesting the universe is Schrödinger's cat.

[BJohnsonPP]

Just read some of that briefly and see the question of why did he God create.Bible says God is love...He created outta love

Also the part of God knowing past and present.If he chooses to do so.

Christendom <Babylon the great,empire of false religeon put doctrine going to hell after death>Bible says man goes back to dust,his thoughts perish at death.EX:Told Adam back to dust you will go.EX:Jesus said Lazarus was asleep.Lazarus was resurrected never spoke of heavenly bliss or firey hell.

Before you put garbage up like that know what ur speaking about.You put up all of mans BS and doctrines.

Huh? Was this supposed to be the logical proof? I just... I don't... Huh?

[falcon9]

Just read some of that briefly and see the question of why did he God create.Bible says God is love...He created outta love

Also the part of God knowing past and present.If he chooses to do so.

Christendom <Babylon the great,empire of false religeon put doctrine going to hell after death>Bible says man goes back to dust,his thoughts perish at death.EX:Told Adam back to dust you will go.EX:Jesus said Lazarus was asleep.Lazarus was resurrected never spoke of heavenly bliss or firey hell.

Before you put garbage up like that know what ur speaking about.You put up all of mans BS and doctrines.

Huh? Was this supposed to be the logical proof? I just... I don't... Huh?

Apparently, the incoherent ramblings of a semi-literate xtian fundie and logical proof have never met.

[alaric99x]

Just read some of that briefly and see the question of why did he God create.Bible says God is love...He created outta love

Also the part of God knowing past and present.If he chooses to do so.

Christendom <Babylon the great,empire of false religeon put doctrine going to hell after death>Bible says man goes back to dust,his thoughts perish at death.EX:Told Adam back to dust you will go.EX:Jesus said Lazarus was asleep.Lazarus was resurrected never spoke of heavenly bliss or firey hell.

Before you put garbage up like that know what ur speaking about.You put up all of mans BS and doctrines.

Give him a little credit, around here Hitch has become the court jester entertaining all the rest of us.  He's a comedian, we should all enjoy his goofy and self-insulting comedy.  He makes a fool of himself in order to entertain those of us who aren't idiots.  If I knew where his cup is, I would throw a few small coins in.  We can't really do that, but he's crying for attention in his unfulfilled and disappointing life, so at least keep answering his idiotic drivel.

Huh? Was this supposed to be the logical proof? I just... I don't... Huh?

[falcon9]

Just read some of that briefly and see the question of why did he God create.Bible says God is love...He created outta love

Also the part of God knowing past and present.If he chooses to do so.

Christendom <Babylon the great,empire of false religeon put doctrine going to hell after death>Bible says man goes back to dust,his thoughts perish at death.EX:Told Adam back to dust you will go.EX:Jesus said Lazarus was asleep.Lazarus was resurrected never spoke of heavenly bliss or firey hell.

Before you put garbage up like that know what ur speaking about.You put up all of mans BS and doctrines.

Give him a little credit, around here Hitch has become the court jester entertaining all the rest of us.  He's a comedian, we should all enjoy his goofy and self-insulting comedy.  He makes a fool of himself in order to entertain those of us who aren't idiots.  If I knew where his cup is, I would throw a few small coins in.  We can't really do that, but he's crying for attention in his unfulfilled and disappointing life, so at least keep answering his idiotic drivel.

Huh? Was this supposed to be the logical proof? I just... I don't... Huh?

Given his posts thusfar, doubtless logic and "hitch" have never made acquaintance.

[SherylsShado]

[jcribb16]

Love your picture, Sheryl.  The line about the beauty of God inspiring me reminded me of this picture:

[falcon9]

Such a superstitious religious belief does not constitute any evidence supporting the "logical existence of g-d", (since blind faith requires no such evidence).


"G-d for you is where you sweep away all the mysteries of the world, all the challenges to our intelligence.
You simply turn your mind off and say G-d did it." - Carl Sagan

[SherylsShado]

"G-d for you is where you sweep away all the mysteries of the world, all the challenges to our intelligence.
You simply turn your mind off and say G-d did it." - Carl Sagan

 Just curious.  Anyone know why (or how)  quotes from the hell-bound are supposed to be impressive?   

[falcon9]

"G-d for you is where you sweep away all the mysteries of the world, all the challenges to our intelligence.
You simply turn your mind off and say G-d did it." - Carl Sagan

Just curious.  Anyone know why (or how)  quotes from the hell-bound are supposed to be impressive?    

What would the unsupported, irrational religious beliefs of the superstitious have to do with the post-mortem status of anybody?  Carl's quote is apropos to the illogical faith-based belief in "g-d".

[SherylsShado]

Still waiting for an answer on how repetitious quotes from people who chose to "miss out", "miss the boat", "live lives of 'lack' are supposed to carry some "weight", or be "impressive".   

Wherever I am--God is.  For someone to dismiss Him from their lives is their stupidity.  Perhaps their words sound brilliant to some because hey, these people were/are "well-known" and they said things that reflected the rebellion they had in their hearts toward God.  Feel free to grab ahold of those words for dear life but in the end, those words of the foolish won't be saving anybody.   

[falcon9]

Still waiting for an answer on how repetitious quotes from people who chose to "miss out", "miss the boat", "live lives of 'lack' are supposed to carry some "weight", or be "impressive". 

Those aren't nearly as repetitious as quoting specious/'weightless', (based upon insubstantial "faith"), biblical "verses" over and over in a mindless droning of religious propaganda.  

Wherever I am--God is. 

That's merely a religious belief which has no basis in evidence.

For someone to dismiss Him from their lives is their stupidity. 

Logically, it's more stupid to hold religious belief based upon blind faith, (nothing), than to dismiss an irrational superstition.

Feel free to grab ahold of those words for dear life but in the end, those words of the foolish won't be saving anybody.   

You'd *see* that your opinion applies more to the various xtian "bibles", were you not blinded by your faith.

[SherylsShado]

Still waiting for an answer on how repetitious quotes from people who chose to "miss out", "miss the boat", "live lives of 'lack' are supposed to carry some "weight", or be "impressive". 

Those aren't nearly as repetitious as quoting specious/'weightless', (based upon insubstantial "faith"), biblical "verses" over and over in a mindless droning of religious propaganda.

 

While only one is religious, BOTH are as repetitious.  The forums have become so boring with the same old repetition that never stops.  Surely you have some ideas on how to "jazz" them up a bit since you were a mod and all...  (Hopefully?)

Wherever I am--God is. 

That's merely a religious belief which has no basis in evidence.

I don't belong to any "religion", therefore it's a personal belief which has basis in evidence in that others have seen the evidence of something existing in my life that doesn't exist in theirs and they've told me so...frequently.  How can anyone deny the Supernatural exists just because the "evidence required" doesn't fit into their "scientific dimensions"?  You've never had any friends or relatives that "dabbled" (or more than "dabbled") in the occult?  You've never seen first-hand what "spirits" can do?  There's no scientific basis of evidence for that either, yet so many know that it exists.

For someone to dismiss Him from their lives is their stupidity. 

Logically, it's more stupid to hold religious belief based upon blind faith, (nothing), than to dismiss an irrational superstition.

Yes, you would be correct...IF ALL religious beliefs were based upon nothing, however there is one that isn't.  Those that have found it could care less if others wish to consider it "nothing", as it doesn't diminish anything in any way.

Feel free to grab ahold of those words for dear life but in the end, those words of the foolish won't be saving anybody.   

You'd *see* that your opinion applies more to the various xtian "bibles", were you not blinded by your faith.

The end hasn't arrived yet, so how would you KNOW?  You can guess, you can have an opinion, you can think, you can hope...but you don't KNOW.  You have your "scientific evidence" and so called "rationality", however so do I.  I have all that...and MORE.  I have God's Word.  You can joke and call it "words of the superstitious whatever" but you don't have anything more powerful than that. 

(Not trying to scare you, but gosh forbid this thread closed because once again here's another thread with only the same few members responding back and forth which is "prohibited".  I never knew that one before...did you??) 
   

[falcon9]

Still waiting for an answer on how repetitious quotes from people who chose to "miss out", "miss the boat", "live lives of 'lack' are supposed to carry some "weight", or be "impressive". 

Those aren't nearly as repetitious as quoting specious/'weightless', (based upon insubstantial "faith"), biblical "verses" over and over in a mindless droning of religious propaganda.

 

While only one is religious, BOTH are as repetitious.  The forums have become so boring with the same old repetition that never stops.  Surely you have some ideas on how to "jazz" them up a bit since you were a mod and all...  (Hopefully?)

If the xtian propaganda threads keep repeating content, it is unreasonable to expect opposition responses to be "jazzed-up".  Although an alternate thread was initiated concerning wicca, some xtians soon trolled it.  Perhaps a thread on 'satanism' would "jazz" things up?

Wherever I am--God is. 

That's merely a religious belief which has no basis in evidence.

I don't belong to any "religion", therefore it's a personal belief which has basis in evidence in that others have seen the evidence of something existing in my life that doesn't exist in theirs and they've told me so...frequently. 

These are inaccurate attributions of effects to supernatural causes.  Much as our ancestors used to attribute lightening, volcanos, personal fortune and misfortune to 'god/desses', 'daemons', 'sprites', 'fae', egregores, etc. Some still hold such supersitious beliefs, others do not.

How can anyone deny the Supernatural exists just because the "evidence required" doesn't fit into their "scientific dimensions"?

 

That is as easily done as disregarding any supernatural belief which lacks substantive evidence since not rejecting the specious means accepting any specious belief sans evidence.

You've never had any friends or relatives that "dabbled" (or more than "dabbled") in the occult? 

Yes, a few.

You've never seen first-hand what "spirits" can do?  There's no scientific basis of evidence for that either, yet so many know that it exists.

Nothing occurred which was not inaccurately attributed to "supernatural" causes, (sans a direct and irrefutable chain of evidence).  "Many know" no such thing - they merely claim it, which is not teh same thing.

For someone to dismiss Him from their lives is their stupidity. 

Logically, it's more stupid to hold religious belief based upon blind faith, (nothing), than to dismiss an irrational superstition.

Yes, you would be correct...IF ALL religious beliefs were based upon nothing, however there is one that isn't.  Those that have found it could care less if others wish to consider it "nothing", as it doesn't diminish anything in any way.

How pretentious and sanctimonious to claim, (again, without evidence), to claim that "one" religion isn't based upon empty faith, )nothing substantive), when xtianity is no exception.  If it were, there would be evidence, (and that would mean that the empty faith required wouldn't be required in light of attributable evidence).  Whether the believers in an empty faith-based religion fail to see this about their preferred religious superstition or not is largely irrelavent, (most will cling to such blind faith in spite of it being based upon nothing substantive).

Feel free to grab ahold of those words for dear life but in the end, those words of the foolish won't be saving anybody.   

You'd *see* that your opinion applies more to the various xtian "bibles", were you not blinded by your faith.

The end hasn't arrived yet, so how would you KNOW? 

Your religion doesn't accurately predict anything either.  This is either because it's "prophesies" are so vague that any post facto events can be 'creatively-interpreted' as a 'prediction'.  That's disingenuous and invalidates the nonfunctionality of that religion's non-predictions.

You have your "scientific evidence" and so called "rationality", however so do I.  I have all that...and MORE.  I have God's Word.  You can joke and call it "words of the superstitious whatever" but you don't have anything more powerful than that. 

The irrational belief system espoused has no demonstrable 'power' other than what it's followers concede it in self-delusion.  Not being deluded is much more "powerful" than being trapped by the mirrored-halls of a religious delusion.

(Not trying to scare you, but gosh forbid this thread closed because once again here's another thread with only the same few members responding back and forth which is "prohibited".  I never knew that one before...did you??) 

There is nothing in the FAQ or TOS stating that as a prohibition ... maybe it's a moderator policy?

[SherylsShado]

Sorry, no quotes...the content is getting too long.

I'm not sure what would "jazz" things up, I thought since falcon9 had been a mod (at the minimum of at least one other forum) that he would have some ideas on what might make things "rock" around here.  It's like the only thing the FC forums have become is a place to sling out Bible verses and nursery rhymes (one can't help but wonder about copyright issues, especially when the OP is getting paid to be copying them and passing them on to others).  I didn't mean to totally lay the burden of "jazz" on falcon9 though...if ANYONE has any ideas that would be so great!!  These forums have never looked so "hum-drum".  One thread reads like another, what happened to the "FUN" ?  

I'm aware that some ancestors held superstitious beliefs...and some STILL do (ex: Friday the 13th).  That wasn't what I  previously meant.  How close are you, falcon9 to friends that are into the occult?  I ask because if one spends any amount of time with one at all, one can't help but experience unexplainable things first-hand of the paranormal kind.   And no, I'm not the only one that knows that.  There's many others (relatives, friends, co-workers, aquaintances) that aren't spiritual at all that also have been around these people and have experienced the same things.  Some of us together even, at various events.   We've  all compared notes on the "odd instances".  Funny thing is, those that don't have their selves ready with God run scared when any unexplainable events happen--- they are ready to bolt out the first available exit in fright.  It's kind of funny.

Nothing "pretentious and sanctimonious" at all, even the Bible states there are many ways which "seem right" but end in death and that is actually stated Twice in the book of Proverbs (14:12 and 16:25).  It also says the path to Heaven is narrow and few go there, as well as Jesus is the only way to salvation.   I realize any "religion" can claim this however, they all lack something that Christianity doesn't.  That would be the "power in the blood of Jesus"...there is nothing more powerful than that.  When one has things right with God, they KNOW it.  So, until someone can come up with some actual valid proof that the Bible isn't the best source of direction to having a personal relationship with God then I'm "going by the Book".  (Proof as in something other than the repetitious, ridiculous questions found on all the "atheistic" websites which may serve as a "pacifier" for some but leave others with more questions than they answer.)  Guess it all depends on what is the "foundation" for one's life, I prefer building mine on "the Rock" vs. quicksand.

*It seems to be a moderator policy.  Since there are NUMEROUS other threads that have ended in "personal chats" between the same few members but only one that was locked--- seems to be ok to bash the Bible to bits here but not ok to poo-poo on voo-doo.