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Topic: marry your rapist ??? WHAT!!!!!  (Read 5875 times)

Abrupt

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Re: marry your rapist ??? WHAT!!!!!
« Reply #15 on: March 18, 2012, 09:04:19 am »
The Bible doesn't say any such thing.

"If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay her father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives." -- Deu. 22:28:29, NIV

"If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days." -- Deu. 22:28:29, KJV

the NIV version is a terrible translation and that is very evident with the following words "and they are discovered".  Note the 'they' used indicates mutuality and not 'rape'.  The word was likely closer in meaning to 'seduces'.

Not quite; the original Hebrew-Aramaic words were "taphas and shakab", which are "to seize and lay hold of" + "to lie (as in sexual relations)". Hence, the use of the word taphas in conjunction with shakab in Deuteronomy implies that the sexual act was forced upon the maiden without her consent. It also tacitly implies that if they weren't 'found out/discovered' then the admonishments wouldn't apply.  The whole thing sounds a bit like a consenting women either isn't 'discovered' and remains silent or, gets busted and 'cries rape' after consent, (thus denying consent after the fact and falsely accusing the man - who earns a death sentence as a result).  If the man 'seduced' the woman, (which means to entice, beguile, manipulate), then he either did so with or against her will.  IIRC, back then, the woman's family provided a marriage dowry so, the fifty sheckels in silver wouldn't be paid by the seducer, it would've been paid by the bride's family.  This discrepency causes doubt about the admonishment's translations.


'Now someone may want to argue that the preceding examples do not combine the two words together as is the case with Deuteronomy 22. Hence, the use of the word taphas in conjunction with shakab in Deuteronomy implies that the sexual act was forced upon the maiden without her consent. A careful reading of both the passage itself, as well as its surrounding context, dispels such a notion. We quote the passage again, yet this time adding the surrounding context for further clarification:

    "But if a man finds a betrothed young woman in the countryside, and the man forces (chazaq) her and lies with her, then only the man who lay with her shall die. But you shall do nothing to the young woman; there is in the young woman no sin deserving of death, for just as when a man rises against his neighbor and kills him, even so is this matter. For he found her in the countryside, and the betrothed young woman CRIED OUT, but there was no one to save her. If a man finds a young woman who is a virgin, who is not betrothed, and he seizes her and lies with her, and THEY ARE found out, then the man who lay with her shall give to the young woman's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife because he has humbled her; he shall not be permitted to divorce her all his days." Deuteronomy 22:25-29 NKJV

Although vv. 25-27 refers to a woman that is betrothed, the point is still clear. By screaming, the woman indicates that she is being forced to have sex without her consent. Hence, when the woman does not scream this indicates that she willfully chose to engage in the sexual act with the man. This is further seen from vv. 28-29 where both the man and the woman are held accountable, i.e. "and THEY ARE found out." This is unlike the woman of vv. 25-27 who is said to be not guilty.

Also notice that in v. 25 a different word is used when signifying rape, namely chazaq. If the inspired author wanted to imply that the woman in vv. 28-29 was being raped, he could have used this same word chazaq; especially since this is the word he uses in the preceding verses to refer to an actual rape incident. The fact that he didn't use it should further caution us from reading rape into vv. 28-29.

This is supported by other OT passages. In the places where rape is mentioned none of them use the word taphas with anah. Rather, the authors use the word chazaq with anah to convey this notion'

source:http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/ot_and_rape.htm
There are only 10 types of people in the world:  those who understand binary, and those who don't.

Barbaralynne

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Re: marry your rapist ??? WHAT!!!!!
« Reply #16 on: March 18, 2012, 09:18:45 am »
 It is a much different society,I could not imagine forcing my daughters to marry anyone, let alone their rapist.Ithink a big part of the Bible intentions is to make sure the woman is supported,since as a non -virgin she is un- marriable and there for worhtless- in this day and age that is ludicrous-but I wonder if a man would think twice if he had to pay fines as well as jail time.
 

falcon9

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Re: marry your rapist ??? WHAT!!!!!
« Reply #17 on: March 18, 2012, 03:49:54 pm »
"Also notice that in v. 25 a different word is used when signifying rape, namely chazaq. If the inspired author wanted to imply that the woman in vv. 28-29 was being raped, he could have used this same word chazaq; especially since this is the word he uses in the preceding verses to refer to an actual rape incident. The fact that he didn't use it should further caution us from reading rape into vv. 28-29."

Seduced, raped, consented; there was still a fifty sheckels of silver pay-off involved.  Whether a fine, pay-off or dowry, something engendered 'blood money'.
One can lead a horse to water however, if one holds the horse's head under, that horse will drown.

             

jarheadwife04

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Re: marry your rapist ??? WHAT!!!!!
« Reply #18 on: March 18, 2012, 05:03:44 pm »
One of the most insane things I have heard in a long time! 

vmcutshall

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Re: marry your rapist ??? WHAT!!!!!
« Reply #19 on: March 18, 2012, 05:08:32 pm »
Quote
Bible says it's ok.  I think you just owe the girls dad a goat or something.

No where in the Bible does it say it alright for a woman to be raped let alone marry her rapist.

dwggs

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Re: marry your rapist ??? WHAT!!!!!
« Reply #20 on: March 19, 2012, 07:59:56 am »
This law needs to be changed.  

Not only is the girl humiliated when she was raped but by having to marry him
she has to be humiliated for the rest of her life.

This law is just insane ... but some other countries are extremely backwards and think this is ok ... from a moral standpoint ... It Is Plain Wrong.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2012, 08:01:54 am by dwggs »
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sigmapi1501

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Re: marry your rapist ??? WHAT!!!!!
« Reply #21 on: March 19, 2012, 11:49:42 am »
Bible says it's ok.  I think you just owe the girls dad a goat or something.

The Bible doesn't say any such thing.

Well, I'm not sure what goats went for back then however, he was pretty close.

I knew some "genius" would compare this to the Bible.I'm only surprised someone beat Falcon9 to it. ::)

No comparisons were needed since there are 'direct quotes'.  I'm slightly surprised that even a diminished-capacity xtian wouldn't want to 'thump' that reference out of the 'babble/bible', (although it doesn't take a "genius" to figure out why). Here's the refutation of your false denial:


"If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay her father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives." -- Deu. 22:28:29, NIV

"If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days." -- Deu. 22:28:29, KJV


So, your religious indocrination manual authorizes rape as long as her dad is paid-off and you marry her.  How special.



the NIV version is a terrible translation and that is very evident with the following words "and they are discovered".  Note the 'they' used indicates mutuality and not 'rape'.  The word was likely closer in meaning to 'seduces'.

WAIT A MINUTE! Are you saying that someone could read a quote from the Bible and misconstrue it's meaning? I don't believe it.

runy_brm

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Re: marry your rapist ??? WHAT!!!!!
« Reply #22 on: March 19, 2012, 12:01:30 pm »
It's sad and crazy

demaina

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Re: marry your rapist ??? WHAT!!!!!
« Reply #23 on: March 19, 2012, 12:16:27 pm »
Now, if the girl wanted to marry the guy who raped her, fine, that's her choice.  But if they are actually forcing the girl to marry her rapist, then I feel bad for them.

JaiStarr

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Re: marry your rapist ??? WHAT!!!!!
« Reply #24 on: March 19, 2012, 12:44:15 pm »
Stuff like this breaks my heart...The suffering people, especially children, go through. :angry7:


JaiStarr001

lynnc35

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Re: marry your rapist ??? WHAT!!!!!
« Reply #25 on: March 19, 2012, 12:45:35 pm »
Utter outrage. Everyone will be judged, they will get theres.

falcon9

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Re: marry your rapist ??? WHAT!!!!!
« Reply #26 on: March 19, 2012, 09:33:06 pm »
Utter outrage.

That's xtianity's 'unholy book(s)' for you - utterly outrageous.


Everyone will be judged, they will get theres.

Everyone is being judged on a daily basis - right now, so we're already there, (as opposed to 'their').
One can lead a horse to water however, if one holds the horse's head under, that horse will drown.

             

lgemini

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Re: marry your rapist ??? WHAT!!!!!
« Reply #27 on: March 20, 2012, 02:39:31 am »
This so stupid, this country is not giving the victim of rape to try to live a normal life or any rights to punish her rapist.
All this law will do is to give the rapist the right to rape, and keep making the victim a victim everyday.

marcar1008

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Re: marry your rapist ??? WHAT!!!!!
« Reply #28 on: March 22, 2012, 09:01:05 am »
I think the rapist should get castrated . Then feed raw  :-X  to the person forcing this action to get approved.  :notworthy:

mzzsarah12

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Re: marry your rapist ??? WHAT!!!!!
« Reply #29 on: March 22, 2012, 10:42:02 am »
Poor girl, I wish she would have just killed him in his sleep instead of killing herself,  then again she probably would be killed herself for doing that in that country. I wonder if God would give her a pass into heaven even though she committed suicide, or if she did kill him would He give her a pass on that one.

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