Lets Be Honest About Praying

[Cuppycake]

This is why I love you lol ! You have allot of patience. I am just to the point of no longer being able to tolerate the complete and utter  of religion in general. I am incapable of being nice to religious people that insist on everyone else also buying into  .

They can be extremely exasperating, popping up like weeds in the driveway of reason.  Consider it a Bday gift for you.

Best Birthday gift ever ! 

[loulizlee]

Here come the weeds again!!!  Weeds?  Why do you, Mr. Falcon9, insist on popping up in every discussion that smacks of religion.  I am not in the business of proselytizing.  All those who are Atheists have made that choice and I, for one, don't care one way or the other.  My main concern is that you and others go on these discussions, which, of course, you will say you have a right to, but your main objective is not education or discussion, it is harassment.  I am not a "martyr;" I just don't think it is necessary to slam people who have no interest in your comments.

[falcon9]

Here come the weeds again!!!  Weeds?  Why do you, Mr. Falcon9, insist on popping up in every discussion that smacks of religion.

 
The "weeds" reference was to threads which either concern a religious topic, (like this thread, which I didn't start, it 'popped up like a weed'), and those discussions about other subjects into which religious concepts sprout up like weeds.  Why is it that religious adherents feel it necessary to grow such weeds?

I am not in the business of proselytizing. 

Yet proselytizing implicitly and insidiously occurs when proclaimations of religious 'faith' keep popping up, (even and especially in discussions which do not initially involve that topic).

My main concern is that you and others go on these discussions, which, of course, you will say you have a right to, but your main objective is not education or discussion, it is harassment. 

That would be your inaccurate perception of intent, (and of effect), since I'd maintain that my intent is to counter superstitious beliefs with reason, (which does involve discussion and education to an extent, at least within the limits of the religious adherent's abilities).  Of course, few religious adherents are willing to discuss their 'matters of faith' to any extensive degree, nor are they willing to be 'educated' concerning viewpoints which vary diametrically with their narrow religious ones.  It isn't "harassment" to challenge specious claims, (religious or otherwise).
Falsely characterizing such challenges to unsupported opinions as "harassment" is making a false accusation and smacks of 'martyrdom', (false assumption of victimhood).

I am not a "martyr;" I just don't think it is necessary to slam people who have no interest in your comments.

Wonderful, and what of those people who have no interest in tacit religious proselytizing, manifesting in threads like this one and insidiously interjected in unrelated thread subjects?  Again, characterizing challenging these religious comments as 'slamming' them is dishonest and reflects the put-upon haughtiness of the religious adherent doing so.  If you choose not to engage in such discussions, don't.  If you choose to do so by misrepresenting the situation, that'll be challenged as well.

[SherylsShado]

Here come the weeds again!!!  Weeds?  Why do you, Mr. Falcon9, insist on popping up in every discussion that smacks of religion.  I am not in the business of proselytizing.  All those who are Atheists have made that choice and I, for one, don't care one way or the other.  My main concern is that you and others go on these discussions, which, of course, you will say you have a right to, but your main objective is not education or discussion, it is harassment.  I am not a "martyr;" I just don't think it is necessary to slam people who have no interest in your comments.

@ALL:
 When one says that "atheists have made that choice" (and I've heard that MANY times so my intent isn't to "harass" the OP).  What "knowledge" does anyone have that it is a choice that the "atheist" has made for their entire lifetime?  I know many people that have changed their religious preferences or "non-religious preferences" as often as some people change their shirts.  People change their minds all the time.  I know some that "made a choice to be Christian" and when other believers "let them down"... then they "made a choice" to be agnostic, and then later they chose to "make that choice" again but to be atheist this time...who says that will be their "final" choice?  (* no disrespect intended toward any party of the groups I listed and not everyone that has "made that choice" made them in that order, that was just one example).

The Bible says Jesus Himself said  one is to "love God", AND "love thy neighbor as thyself"(Mark 12:30-31)...He  didn't say "but if they are atheist, never mind, they made their choice".  He also said "There is none other commandment greater than these".  If someone really believes in Jesus then just how do they just ignore what Jesus Himself said were the two greatest commandments?  John 3:16- "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life'. I don't see any clause there that says "unless they are atheists, because those are exempt"...do you? 

This "mind-set" that some believers have that they must treat atheists "like hell since they are going there anyway"...it's very damaging.  "Once an atheist" does NOT mean "always an atheist"...but all they constantly hear is "they have made that choice".  (It's ironic how believers can't comprehend how someone could be a christian and then decide to become a non-believer.  It never occurs to the believer that perhaps somewhere along the way, those former christians began thinking that from what they could see in other "believer's" lives...they'd be better off without it.) 

Jesus never condemned anyone to hell when that person was still alive.  How does a believer REALLY think that they can ignore the second part of the GREATEST commandments (not "suggestions"...COMMANDMENTS), treat non-believers badly "because they chose to go to hell anyway" and still expect to go to Heaven? 

I can't believe the number of people that get upset because their posts are "challenged".  It's words...in a forum...being questioned by unbelievers.  I can't help but wonder how your witnessing efforts go with questioning unbeliever's in real life.  Don't you remember what it was like before you found God?  Was it a Believer that was treating you like "hell" that got you interested in God?      We're posting on Spiritual "touchy" topics .  Not everyone is going to agree with you.  Not everyone is going to believe you.  If your post 'blesses' just one person, wasn't it worth it?   Jesus was CRUCIFIED, let's keep things in perspective.

IMO, Believer's should re-read their posts before posting to a non-believer.  If your post doesn't make you feel like giving them a big hug afterwards then you might want to inform Jesus of your "heart condition".

[loulizlee]

I didn't realize I had said all that in my post.  BTW, some of my bests friends are Athiests.

[falcon9]

I didn't realize I had said all that in my post.  BTW, some of my bests friends are Athiests.

Somehow, that comes across in the same way as a racist claiming that some of their best friends are minorities.

[falcon9]

I can't believe the number of people that get upset because their posts are "challenged".  It's words...in a forum...being questioned by unbelievers.

Just as the words of 'believers' are just unsupported opinions - very often dodging any challenges to support them. 

I can't help but wonder how your witnessing efforts go with questioning unbeliever's in real life. 

If you are indirectly implying that at least some 'believers' are on FC to "witness", (proselytize), one aspect of my challenges are a direct response to such presumptuously disrepectful behaviour.

[loulizlee]

I am not a racist, and some of my best friends ARE minorities.  Why does that have to be a racist statement?  As a matter of fact, I am a minority.

[falcon9]

I am not a racist, and some of my best friends ARE minorities.  Why does that have to be a racist statement?  As a matter of fact, I am a minority.

It was a parallel, not a statement linking religious beliefs with racism, (although persons of any 'race' can be racist/prejudiced, whether regarding the skintone of another or, their religious/non-religious beliefs/disbeliefs).

[loulizlee]

Or bigoted?

[falcon9]

Or bigoted?

That depends upon context.  If you're implying, (via context), that someone can be a "bigot"; a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices, especially one who exhibits intolerance or animosity toward members of a group/individual who does not share the beliefs of the bigot, then that works both ways. Bigotry may be based on real or perceived characteristics, including religious or spiritual beliefs however, if no specific individual or group is being singled-out, it's more of a prejudice than bigotry.

For instance, my objections to religious beliefs extend to encompass any religious belief, (not just one group's).  Whereas bigotry in the opposite direction, (from members of a specific religious group), is being directed mainly toward one individual, (prejudicial), and less often against a perceived 'group', (against "atheists" in general).

[renin23]

This is clearly an agree to disagree topic. I do believe in the power of prayer and no one can make me think differently.  We are all entitled to our own opinions and every statement in this forum discussion is an opinion. I'm not trying to prove anything to anyone or impose my beliefs on anyone.

god is some awesome father that by prayer his done alot in my life i keep praying for my family,and the world..gby

[SherylsShado]

I didn't realize I had said all that in my post.  BTW, some of my bests friends are Athiests.

I am a woman of MANY words...
                                       AND I like to share.  

[SherylsShado]

I can't help but wonder how your witnessing efforts go with questioning unbeliever's in real life. 

If you are indirectly implying that at least some 'believers' are on FC to "witness", (proselytize), one aspect of my challenges are a direct response to such presumptuously disrepectful behaviour.

I wasn't "indirectly implying" anything as I have no way of knowing what anyone's intentions are for using the FC forum other than my own.  I was just simply wondering how it's even possible for some of the Believers on here to even talk and "witness" to a non-believer "in the real world" if they can't manage to act with any more kindness than has been displayed here in the forums to non-believers...

[falcon9]

I wasn't "indirectly implying" anything as I have no way of knowing what anyone's intentions are for using the FC forum other than my own. 

From your remarks, the direct implication was/is that you perceive such religious commentary as "witnessing to non-believers".  Is that correct?

I was just simply wondering how it's even possible for some of the Believers on here to even talk and "witness" to a non-believer "in the real world" if they can't manage to act with any more kindness than has been displayed here in the forums to non-believers...

Then remarks were correctly discerned and such "witnessing" constitutes proselytizing, (preaching religious beliefs).  This is what my opposing viewpoints are opposing; the presumptuous arrogance of religious adherents in engaging in unsolicited "witnessing", (while hypocritically objecting to counter-arguments in opposition to such beliefs).  If they are free to "witness", I'm as free to present opposing 'witnesses', (counter-arguments), without the tacit censorship attempts they're putting forward to attempt to 'silence' any opposition, (by calling it "rude", "disrepectful" and such - while their proselytizing to "rude"/"disrespectful" of the non-religious positions others hold).