Lets Be Honest About Praying

[falcon9]

Roadblocks can only last so long before they are opened and you can pass through or you can choose to go a different way - same with "blind faith" - you can pass through or choose a different way. 

I understand your attempts to redefine blind faith as a challenge to be overcome however, that's not what it is.  Instead, it constitutes an intentional willingness to disregard reason in favor of a forlorn hope.

Up to this point we have both made our choices:  the roadblock was removed for me and I passed through.  You have instead taken a different direction.  [/size][/color][/b]

No, the roadblock of blind faith remains firmly in place for you, (since ambiguous attributions do not support it), and is a non-factor for me, (since I do not regard it as 'blocking' anything but reason - which I retain despite the blind faith of others).

[SherylsShado]

Hi, Sheryl! 
It's a pleasure to see you again!  I always enjoy reading your thoughtful and Godly answers to questions or challenges that are put forth to try and contradict our faith.  I hope you and yours are doing well - I've missed chatting with you - it's been awhile. 

Hello there jcribb!!     It's good to be back, I missed everybody too.  I had never meant to "leave" FC but I was working too much and was too exhausted to deal with the computer most days.  I'm done with the second job.  Things are great here...how about with you?  What's new??

[SherylsShado]

qon:
  In a former post I asked if it would have made you happier if I had never said that I was a Christian---  I never meant to imply that you weren't happy.   I should have chosen my words more carefully.  I had just been wondering whether or not you would have preferred that I had kept God all to myself from Day 1, or if you preferred honesty.  Your answer

And no, I wouldn't want you to pretend to not be something that is very core to who you are.

is just one of the reasons I think you're a great person.  Even though we both have different "cores", we both can go past it without the pretense and have fun anyway.  (There's alot of other people that get all "hung up" when the "cores" are different...they can't get past the differences and it's a sad way to be, imo.)  

Anyway,  qon & falconer02:  I've missed you both!  I hope life has been treating you both well!!  (You know, even though I may irritate the mess out of you at times...if I didn't care, I wouldn't be on you about getting your eternal destination plans in order.)  

[jcribb16]

Strange but neat things about prayer:  it's a wonderful thing when it's answered, especially for a specific situation and/or a specific person. 

How are you determining that the effect, (allegedly 'answered prayer'), can be directly attributed to only the cause, ('praying')?
[/quot
  The first thing to understanding prayer is whether or not you accept the Lord.  The first prayer He hears from anyone is the prayer of repentance and then acceptance of Him.  When there is a specific situation prayed for, it will be answered.  We might not like the answer at first, but later down the road, it's obvious why.  One personal example with me I'll share - but won't discuss the particulars after this because it is/was personal.

  Because of my abusive childhood, my self-esteem was crushed.  I never thought I'd get married, much less trust anyone.  After I got saved, I pored over and "devoured" the Bible, learning, memorizing, then looking for answers.  I learned about praying, including specifically for certain people, things, and issues. 

So, later in years, all my friends were getting married and having babies, but me.  I knew because of my past, I wouldn't know how or if I  could trust anyone to date, even take that step to marry.  So I met with my SS teachers ( a married couple whom I really liked and trusted.)  That helped with many things.  I ended up praying for particulars for the man who may would or (wouldn't) be the one for me.  One particular was the acceptance of my past and what had happened, including having to put up with my father, who at the time was very hateful to people.  I did not choose to go around him, but had to see him when I would see my mom.  He ended up getting in a lot of trouble "stalking" me after I got married and had kids.

There were some other particulars I prayed for concerning my "now" hubby.  Every single one of them were answered concerning him.  My mom laughed at me for the particulars, but had to admit God answered my prayers.

 My dad got saved near the end of his life - that was another specific prayer answered for many people.  He also asked forgiveness from anyone he had wronged, including my mom and I (If you had known my dad, you would know this was God moving in him because this man had no respect for God or anyone who didn't think like him.)

There are other answers to specific prayers, however, this personal one in my life, was the most obvious answered by God.  How you read and interpret is your choice - you are entitled to believe it or refute it.  But it changes nothing in how I know God answered these specific prayers - because I accept and love the Lord, and I know what I have learned about praying with confidence and expecting God to answer in His way, will, and time. 

 

[jcribb16]

Hi, Sheryl! 
It's a pleasure to see you again!  I always enjoy reading your thoughtful and Godly answers to questions or challenges that are put forth to try and contradict our faith.  I hope you and yours are doing well - I've missed chatting with you - it's been awhile. 

Hello there jcribb!!     It's good to be back, I missed everybody too.  I had never meant to "leave" FC but I was working too much and was too exhausted to deal with the computer most days.  I'm done with the second job.  Things are great here...how about with you?  What's new??

Well, I'm glad you are back!  It hasn't been the same with you not here!  You were working too much and I haven't worked since May of last year.  Since then, I've still been struggling with some health issues, tests, labs, meds, etc.  Right now I'm waiting on some auto immune tests to come back - the doctors are thinking my asthma and other issues are being flared by an underlying auto immune problem. 

A couple of our friends have left FC and a couple have cut way back with FC.  I miss them, too.  I see you've met the other falcon(9) in here.  I don't think he was here when you were before you having to work so much.

I look forward to chatting with you again!! 

[jcribb16]

Roadblocks can only last so long before they are opened and you can pass through or you can choose to go a different way - same with "blind faith" - you can pass through or choose a different way. 

I understand your attempts to redefine blind faith as a challenge to be overcome however, that's not what it is.  Instead, it constitutes an intentional willingness to disregard reason in favor of a forlorn hope.

Up to this point we have both made our choices:  the roadblock was removed for me and I passed through.  You have instead taken a different direction.  [/size][/color][/b]

No, the roadblock of blind faith remains firmly in place for you, (since ambiguous attributions do not support it), and is a non-factor for me, (since I do not regard it as 'blocking' anything but reason - which I retain despite the blind faith of others).

I'm really sorry you feel that way.  You have chosen your way.  I have chosen mine.  I know beyond a shadow of doubt that God is real and He has shown me in many ways just how real He is, including through prayer.  We will continue to disagree on this and unless you are willing to look beyond the obstacle of only reason, and discuss things within God's reasoning and logic, then we will keep going in circles over this.  Have a nice day - I have to run errands today. 

[falcon9]

I'm really sorry you feel that way.  You have chosen your way.  I have chosen mine. 

I'd be disappointed if you felt that reason _wasn't_ an obstacle to blind faith.  For instance, closing ones eyes and bolting across a busy freeway, relying only upon blind faith that you won't be struck by a vehicle wouldn't be a reasonable risk, (without mitigating circumstances).  Unless you are as irrational in all other aspects of your life, your way selectively rejects reason.

I know beyond a shadow of doubt that God is real and He has shown me in many ways just how real He is, including through prayer. 

It is a misnomer to claim to "know" such a thing when any 'evidence' for such claims is entirely subjective and lacking objective substantiation.  In short, such claims are dubious attributions which rely upon blind faith instead.

We will continue to disagree on this and unless you are willing to look beyond the obstacle of only reason, and discuss things within God's reasoning and logic, then we will keep going in circles over this.  Have a nice day - I have to run errands today. 

Did you just insinuate that "god" has some sort of "reasoning and logic"?  That is such a blatant misuse of those terms that the question must be asked, (whether avoided or not); exactly what method of reasoning and logic are you implying that "god" uses?

[SherylsShado]

Well, I'm glad you are back!  It hasn't been the same with you not here!  You were working too much and I haven't worked since May of last year.  Since then, I've still been struggling with some health issues, tests, labs, meds, etc.  Right now I'm waiting on some auto immune tests to come back - the doctors are thinking my asthma and other issues are being flared by an underlying auto immune problem. 

A couple of our friends have left FC and a couple have cut way back with FC.  I miss them, too.  I see you've met the other falcon(9) in here.  I don't think he was here when you were before you having to work so much.

I look forward to chatting with you again!! 

"auto-immune" problem?  I'm not sure what that means...  I'm sorry you've been struggling with your health all this time.  I will HONESTLY keep you in my prayers and will be having your health matters added to my prayer requests when I get with my prayer circle this Sunday.   

I've noticed walksalone, amyrousse & shernajwine are "missing".  I hope they're all having such a great time that they simply forgot about FC...I miss them...

[queenofnines]

The first thing to understanding prayer is whether or not you accept the Lord.  The first prayer He hears from anyone is the prayer of repentance and then acceptance of Him.

So god has selective listening, does he?  He only answers prayers for those in the club?  Why does god need worship in the first place?

I won't comment on what I think of your specific situation, jcribb, because I'll only end up looking like an *bleep*.  Instead I'll counter with my own example of an "answered prayer"...

When I was still a Christian, I prayed for my mom to receive a Christian man to love her and also a horse (she loves the animal but hasn't had one since her childhood).  Check and check for those coming true in a relatively short amount of time thereafter.  I "confirmed" that my stepdad was a Christian by asking if he was so on the phone when they were first married.  My mom even started going to church because of this man.

Fast forward 2 years later; they are already having problems, and for some reason I'm being solicited for advice on how to fix their marriage.  Fast forward another year, and there is plenty of talk of divorce.

Today, 4 years later, the relationship is in shambles and holding on by a thread.  My mother is depressed, there are financial struggles, and my stepdad is ready to call it quits.  I still get solicited for advice on how to "fix" their marriage.  Things are about as bad as they can be.

So as you can see, as a Christian I called this an example of an "answered prayer", but as an atheist, I can now see it's just life.  Statistically, most people will marry, and statistically, the person you marry will probably believe in god.

[Falconer02]

falconer02:  I've missed you both!  I hope life has been treating you both well!!  (You know, even though I may irritate the mess out of you at times...if I didn't care, I wouldn't be on you about getting your eternal destination plans in order.)   

No, you're far from irritating.  Hope you're doing well too. 

So as you can see, as a Christian I called this an example of an "answered prayer", but as an atheist, I can now see it's just life.  Statistically, most people will marry, and statistically, the person you marry will probably believe in god.

Atheism? The devil! Statistics? The devil!

Seriously though, everyone seems to be going through some rough hardships lately. It being winter probably does not help much either. Haven't heard from you in a while! Hope you're doin' good!

[falcon9]

I also like how the forum Atheist big-wigs will take any excuse to hijack a prayer request or prayer question and turn it into a debate on how people who pray are superstitious primates--and yet still have the hypocrisy to give lectures on putting topics in the right places.

Thank you for submitting an example of cross-posting subject matter from one thread into another unrelated one, (and with a bonus lie about hijacking and "superstitious primates", fabricating a hypocrisy while accussing others of it to boot!).  Now, this response will be moved to the thread you're lying about, even if you lack the courage of your convictions to reply there.

[queenofnines]

Also, if prayer was really this "magic bullet" that so many claim it is, you'd think they'd be able to supply dozens of examples just from this month of "god answering their prayers".  Why is it that they usually only point to one or two hard times in their lives where things happened to turn out okay?

[falcon9]

Also, if prayer was really this "magic bullet" that so many claim it is, you'd think they'd be able to supply dozens of examples just from this month of "god answering their prayers".  Why is it that they usually only point to one or two hard times in their lives where things happened to turn out okay?

It wouldn't matter if dozens or hundreds of examples of falsely attributing any results to 'prayer' were given since such effects cannot be unambiguously connected to the cause of 'prayer', (or non-religious placebo effect).  For instance, an unemployed person 'praying' for a job and receives one without any previous or current applications extant still cannot unambiguously attribute that to 'prayer', (since the job offer had to be extended by the mundane actions/decisions of others; such decisions themselves having no attributable connection to 'prayers').

[sigmapi1501]

When I pray for someone I am basically saying "I hope you persevere".  Do I expect them to be cured as a result? Nah. But raising your conscious mind to wish for the betterment of a loved one takes you out of your ego for a few seconds and helps you appreciate why you care about that person. 

Do you need God to do this? No. But if you want the Bears to make a 4th quarter comeback you do!

[jcribb16]

I'm really sorry you feel that way.  You have chosen your way.  I have chosen mine. 

I'd be disappointed if you felt that reason _wasn't_ an obstacle to blind faith.  For instance, closing ones eyes and bolting across a busy freeway, relying only upon blind faith that you won't be struck by a vehicle wouldn't be a reasonable risk, (without mitigating circumstances).  Unless you are as irrational in all other aspects of your life, your way selectively rejects reason.

I know beyond a shadow of doubt that God is real and He has shown me in many ways just how real He is, including through prayer. 

It is a misnomer to claim to "know" such a thing when any 'evidence' for such claims is entirely subjective and lacking objective substantiation.  In short, such claims are dubious attributions which rely upon blind faith instead.

We will continue to disagree on this and unless you are willing to look beyond the obstacle of only reason, and discuss things within God's reasoning and logic, then we will keep going in circles over this.  Have a nice day - I have to run errands today. 

Did you just insinuate that "god" has some sort of "reasoning and logic"?  That is such a blatant misuse of those terms that the question must be asked, (whether avoided or not); exactly what method of reasoning and logic are you implying that "god" uses?

I don't have the time nor energy to keep going in circles with you just to keep seeing you write the same ole same ole words as your responses to posters comments and examples.  This is not going anywhere.  Have a nice evening.