Lets Be Honest About Praying

[falcon9]

Prayer didn't work for Whitney Houston, did it? I am almost sure she was very religious and always had people praying for her to get clean and get her mind right, but it sadly didn't work. Prayers are just words to the wind, not tangible, not real. So why even bother?? To make yourself feel better? HMMMM?!?!?!?

That's an insightful perspective; that prayers are self-righteous self-delusions.

[SherylsShado]

Prayer didn't work for Whitney Houston, did it? I am almost sure she was very religious and always had people praying for her to get clean and get her mind right, but it sadly didn't work. Prayers are just words to the wind, not tangible, not real. So why even bother?? To make yourself feel better? HMMMM?!?!?!?

Prayer is a complicated matter, there are so many people with books out on the topic and everyone has different opinions to make it more confusing.  "Whitney" more than likely had many praying for her to get clean and get her mind right.  If I'm not mistaken, I think she also came from a "church background" and so she probably knew God was there.  I'm sure God had/was knocking at Whitney's heart.  Ultimately, it was her decision to make as God doesn't make anyone accept Him. 
     Unfortunately, people don't just get to live on and on until they decide "ok, it's time for Jesus now"...because they never would.   Many tend to think that they will just do what they want to do and then they'll get "Jesus" before it's too late.  Usually,  it doesn't work like that. 
     A person gets "trapped" and their addictions mess up their minds in such a way that Jesus is the LAST thing on their minds.  (If it was hard for that person to seek Jesus when they could think straight, it gets even harder when they can't!)   
    Just because someone prays for someone else doesn't mean that prayer automatically gets answered with a "YES" from God.  God is not some "wish-granting genie".  I think "The Lord's Prayer" is a good example of how prayers should be. Prayer is converstaion with God, not just giving Him a "wish-list".  They're are all sorts of reasons why some prayers get answered, some don't and some get a "no" which is also an "answer". 
     There are quite a few people that I've been praying for for many years now and I know God has knocked at their hearts because after I had been fasting and praying for them (without them knowing) they had told me things  (like how they had given a hitchhiker a ride recently and it turned out that he was a pastor, and they really liked him and was going to be going to his church...and they did for awhile but then they started messing around with the "addictions" again and that tapered off).  That has happened repeatedly with some of them because while I can request that God keep knocking...and God will keep knocking, this person has to open the door and they have to open the door before their number is up to avoid becoming another tragic ending.

[Cuppycake]

When you tell someone I'm praying for you, or We'll pray for you, do you really do it?

No, people who say this don't do it; it's just something they say to put the absolute least effort forward to pretend they're doing something about a situation.  Or they say it to be a self-righteous *bleep* to people they "pity" (like atheists).

While we're being "honest" about prayer -- you can get the same results praying to a jug of milk.

*claps* Praying is pointless and stupid.

[jcribb16]

I would respect her wishes.  I've learned a lot through the years, especially this last year.  Sure I can pray for whoever I feel like I should on my own.  However, I don't think prayer should publicly be "threatened" on or pushed on anyone, especially those who either don't want it or ask that you not to.  The situation she's got on her touched my heart and I wish I could help in my own way.  Praying is the only way I can think of since we're on opposite sides of the computer screens, but I honestly felt it was important to ask her and then respect her answer given, whichever way she decided.

That's a very considered answer.  Although I'm not sure one can 'threaten' another with prayer, (which strikes me as somehow humorous), it appeared to me, (and I could be wrong, since I don't speak for QoN), that she was leaving it up to you and was fairly indifferent either way.

Since "prayer" is intended to be an intercessionary invocation to one or more deities, do you feel that such a thing would help, even if the one 'prayed for' does not believe in such deities?  Assuming QoN feels that it could do no harm, (and again, I'm guessing here), and that you obviously feel it would be helpful, (if in a somewhat vague and undefined manner), what would you expect to happen?

For me, an example of a "threatened" prayer is one who threatens "hell and brimstone fire" if you don't accept Jesus.  Some people can get pretty mean about that, although I believe they are honestly trying to get someone to "see" how lost they are.  They either may not realize how it's coming across, or they get upset and it comes out harsh to some.  "Threatening" to me, tends to cause more dissension than anything.

QON and I have gone through a lot on here - agreeable and disagreeable.  She is very honest and upfront with what she thinks, including prayer.  At this point, I would rather not discuss this anymore, since I don't think it's fair to talk about her, why and what she meant, and you wanting me to generalize results of the prayer.  It's pretty obvious what I would love to see happen and I would like to leave it at that, out of respect for her.  Thank you - I appreciate your honest questions and hope I've answered enough to satisfy your curiosity, yet not make my question and her response the topic at hand.

[jcribb16]

Prayer didn't work for Whitney Houston, did it? I am almost sure she was very religious and always had people praying for her to get clean and get her mind right, but it sadly didn't work. Prayers are just words to the wind, not tangible, not real. So why even bother?? To make yourself feel better? HMMMM?!?!?!?

Prayer is a complicated matter, there are so many people with books out on the topic and everyone has different opinions to make it more confusing.  "Whitney" more than likely had many praying for her to get clean and get her mind right.  If I'm not mistaken, I think she also came from a "church background" and so she probably knew God was there.  I'm sure God had/was knocking at Whitney's heart.  Ultimately, it was her decision to make as God doesn't make anyone accept Him. 
     Unfortunately, people don't just get to live on and on until they decide "ok, it's time for Jesus now"...because they never would.   Many tend to think that they will just do what they want to do and then they'll get "Jesus" before it's too late.  Usually,  it doesn't work like that. 
     A person gets "trapped" and their addictions mess up their minds in such a way that Jesus is the LAST thing on their minds.  (If it was hard for that person to seek Jesus when they could think straight, it gets even harder when they can't!)   
    Just because someone prays for someone else doesn't mean that prayer automatically gets answered with a "YES" from God.  God is not some "wish-granting genie".  I think "The Lord's Prayer" is a good example of how prayers should be. Prayer is converstaion with God, not just giving Him a "wish-list".  They're are all sorts of reasons why some prayers get answered, some don't and some get a "no" which is also an "answer". 
     There are quite a few people that I've been praying for for many years now and I know God has knocked at their hearts because after I had been fasting and praying for them (without them knowing) they had told me things  (like how they had given a hitchhiker a ride recently and it turned out that he was a pastor, and they really liked him and was going to be going to his church...and they did for awhile but then they started messing around with the "addictions" again and that tapered off).  That has happened repeatedly with some of them because while I can request that God keep knocking...and God will keep knocking, this person has to open the door and they have to open the door before their number is up to avoid becoming another tragic ending.

Well said, Sheryl, and I agree.

[falcon9]

    Just because someone prays for someone else doesn't mean that prayer automatically gets answered with a "YES" from God.  God is not some "wish-granting genie".  

Well said, Sheryl, and I agree.

Presumably, you meant with this part as well.  Puts somewhat of a dent in the efficacy of praying, does it not?

[falcon9]

For me, an example of a "threatened" prayer is one who threatens "hell and brimstone fire" if you don't accept Jesus.  Some people can get pretty mean about that, although I believe they are honestly trying to get someone to "see" how lost they are.  They either may not realize how it's coming across, or they get upset and it comes out harsh to some. 

It is extremely presumptuous to characterize non-believers as "lost", (especially when that designation can be applied to 'believers' who have lost touch with reason and are resorting to unreasoned faith).  Sometimes such an attitude is perceived as harsh and sometimes it isn't.

QON and I have gone through a lot on here - agreeable and disagreeable.  She is very honest and upfront with what she thinks, including prayer.  At this point, I would rather not discuss this anymore, since I don't think it's fair to talk about her, why and what she meant, and you wanting me to generalize results of the prayer.  It's pretty obvious what I would love to see happen and I would like to leave it at that, out of respect for her.  Thank you - I appreciate your honest questions and hope I've answered enough to satisfy your curiosity, yet not make my question and her response the topic at hand.

I understand and that's why I previously mentioned being unable to speak for QoN, (she's quite able to speak for herself as she choses).  The reason I brought that up, (in context, she she did reply), was QoN's specific comment that "While we're being "honest" about prayer -- you can get the same results praying to a jug of milk."

Maybe I interpreted that a bit differently than you did and QoN can choose to remove any ambiguity there if desired.

[SherylsShado]

Presumably, you meant with this part as well.  Puts somewhat of a dent in the efficacy of praying, does it not?

Only if the ONLY reason you are praying is to see what you can get.  Prayer is supposed to be "talking to your Best friend".  If you have friends that only take the time to talk to you when they want something or it's all about "what's in it for them"... that isn't much of a "friendship" and would put a dent in the efficacy of praying.

[falcon9]

Presumably, you meant with this part as well.  Puts somewhat of a dent in the efficacy of praying, does it not?

Only if the ONLY reason you are praying is to see what you can get.  

Well yes, the context was 'intercessionary prayer' however, if you wish to expand that context to 'conversational prayer' where nothing is being asked for, we can talk about that too.

Prayer is supposed to be "talking to your Best friend".  If you have friends that only take the time to talk to you when they want something or it's all about "what's in it for them"... that isn't much of a "friendship" and would put a dent in the efficacy of praying.

That seems more of a one-way 'conversation' than "talking to your best friend", (unless you are implicitly suggesting that you're not the only one talking in such a conversation, rather than 'talking to yourself'?).  The reason I ask this is because talking to oneself would also put a dent in the efficacy of such a 'prayer'.  No doubt you believe that you are not talking to yourself while engaging in such a 'prayer' and that's the reason for asking whether or not you also believe that conversational responses are received.

[SherylsShado]

falconer9--dude, it probably won't be long before you're left all alone talking to yourself"......there's a thread with FC members putting you on "ignore" right now as we "speak"...  

[falcon9]

falconer9--dude, it probably won't be long before you're left all alone talking to yourself"......there's a thread with FC members putting you on "ignore" right now as we "speak"...  

The day will not arrive in which I fear some such pseudo-quaker type of 'shunning'. Although the day that some xtians fear opposing challenges to their 'blind faith' has apparently arrived before now.  Speaking of which, is this the cop-out you're intending to use for not answering the efficacy challenges which you previously were not ignoring?

[SherylsShado]

falconer9--dude, it probably won't be long before you're left all alone talking to yourself"......there's a thread with FC members putting you on "ignore" right now as we "speak"...  

The day will not arrive in which I fear some such pseudo-quaker type of 'shunning'. Although the day that some xtians fear opposing challenges to their 'blind faith' has apparently arrived before now.

LOL...well, here's my post to let you know I haven't put you on "ignore" yet...   Have a great evening (I have to be at work tomorrow at 5 a.m., on a Monday...if I don't get some zzzz's, God help my co-workers!!   )

[falcon9]

LOL...well, here's my post to let you know I haven't put you on "ignore" yet...   Have a great evening (I have to be at work tomorrow at 5 a.m., on a Monday...if I don't get some zzzz's, God help my co-workers!!   )

I'm not sure if that means I can expect an additional reply or, that you just haven't had the opportunity to put me on "ignore" yet.  Either way, rest well, (you wouldn't want your co-workers to 'shun' you).

[tzs]

Prayer didn't work for Whitney Houston, did it? I am almost sure she was very religious and always had people praying for her to get clean and get her mind right, but it sadly didn't work. Prayers are just words to the wind, not tangible, not real. So why even bother?? To make yourself feel better? HMMMM?!?!?!?

That's an insightful perspective; that prayers are self-righteous self-delusions.

I totally agree, praying to me is just a "religious showboating", so to speak. Just another way for religious people to empower theirselves  and thrust their silly beliefs around those who can't handle life, feeling somehow that this act will make them better in the long run. Survey says XXXXXXX! Its just a load of    to me!!!

[queenofnines]

Another point I'd like to bring up is that the religious love to go around saying that god gives them "free will"; however, by praying for someone else without their knowledge/consent, how are you not overriding their free will?

Also, it many instances what it would take for a situation to become better is for god to manipulate a person's brain chemistry, thus affecting their behavior.  For example, you can't expect an unhappy married couple to love each other again without some head tinkering on god's part.  This is an extreme violation of free will and yet another contradiction within Christian beliefs.