Who do you think should win the Republican nomination?

[sigmapi1501]

Lol @ the notion that Fox News channel is fair or balanced.

[sigmapi1501]

Basically, even in his own justification of why fox news exaggerates, abrupt basically says that the people watching fox news are too stupid to understand the news unless it is framed for them.

We report. You decide.
Nope.

[Falconer02]

You do understand that don't you?  I mean do you take the word of the Irish about the fairness of the English?  Or the word of the English about the civility of the french?  You have never struck me as naive and these statements of yours seem as if from an imposter.

Well no-- these notions are very old and out-of-date. With all of the foreigners I've met (which is surprisingly a lot in the last few years due to my brother and friends being involved in various political and foreign studies), the general view of America from their countries is decent- I've heard this from Aussies, Polish, French, Russians, Germans, and Kenyans. Generally we all felt the same about the world and how things are going, so I'm just under the impression that the ones who hold such notions aren't looking in the present or are concentrating on current hot issues where the true information isn't even being told correctly.

 Freedom isn't stolen all at once, it is slowly eroded away over time or traded for a measure of safety or profit.

True. Though as countries grow in population, sometimes these freedoms are eroded due to the growth aspect alone.

The most important job of the media is to hold the government accountable and to warn us when our freedom is being threatened.

I find it funny then that when the courts ruled video games are covered by the first amendment, Fox News was the one dissing it and posting reports around the lines of "The government thinks your kids should play violent and gory video games!". This is a prime example of what Fox News does-- it has an overly-opinionated and 'lamely-exhaggerated' agenda that's so out of date, dull, and biased. When a news network goes so low as to call The Muppets dangerously liberal, there's an obvious glaring problem with it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8YhED4IgQA
(fox source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jl6ekkvWnOE&feature=related )

We report. You decide.
Nope.

"Faux News"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fox_News_Channel_controversies

[Abrupt]

Basically, even in his own justification of why fox news exaggerates, abrupt basically says that the people watching fox news are too stupid to understand the news unless it is framed for them.

We report. You decide.
Nope.

I didn't imply that at all and your previous statement isn't just an exaggeration of what I said but a deliberate misrepresentation and a lie.  This is the trouble with trying to give any agreement to prejudice and brainwashed liberals such as yourself -- when we agree on a point you try to run with that agreement and wield it as a weapon, exaggerate and deceive and downright lie about what was said.  You wonder why their cannot be compromise after what you  have just presented above?

Let us repeat what was said then and add a bit of stipulation:  Fox news exaggerates some issue, but nowhere near as badly as the rest of the media.  Some issues need to be exaggerated because the issues are of such importance that people need to realize them.  The loss of freedom is seldom instant and in a free society it is a slow erosion that often goes unobserved, sort of like a tick latching on for a feeding.  When this tick is noticed the person being fed on needs to be made aware.  If they shrug their shoulders when it is mentioned to them then they need to be reminded in a more firm manner, even if it means exaggerating the risks of spotted fever and other such things carried by the tick.

Now why don't you take what I have just given you and make another lie about what I said.

[Abrupt]

You do understand that don't you?  I mean do you take the word of the Irish about the fairness of the English?  Or the word of the English about the civility of the french?  You have never struck me as naive and these statements of yours seem as if from an imposter.

Well no-- these notions are very old and out-of-date. With all of the foreigners I've met (which is surprisingly a lot in the last few years due to my brother and friends being involved in various political and foreign studies), the general view of America from their countries is decent- I've heard this from Aussies, Polish, French, Russians, Germans, and Kenyans. Generally we all felt the same about the world and how things are going, so I'm just under the impression that the ones who hold such notions aren't looking in the present or are concentrating on current hot issues where the true information isn't even being told correctly.

 Freedom isn't stolen all at once, it is slowly eroded away over time or traded for a measure of safety or profit.

True. Though as countries grow in population, sometimes these freedoms are eroded due to the growth aspect alone.

The most important job of the media is to hold the government accountable and to warn us when our freedom is being threatened.

I find it funny then that when the courts ruled video games are covered by the first amendment, Fox News was the one dissing it and posting reports around the lines of "The government thinks your kids should play violent and gory video games!". This is a prime example of what Fox News does-- it has an overly-opinionated and 'lamely-exhaggerated' agenda that's so out of date, dull, and biased. When a news network goes so low as to call The Muppets dangerously liberal, there's an obvious glaring problem with it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8YhED4IgQA
(fox source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jl6ekkvWnOE&feature=related )

We report. You decide.
Nope.

"Faux News"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fox_News_Channel_controversies

The notions may be somewhat stereotypical but, they are for a reason.  Where you hint at antiquity you forget about culture.  Considering these other countries are highly socialistic it isn't any wonder they would be against the one news agency that doesn't blindly voice socialism.  Are you surprised that people from a socialist upbringing dislike a news agency that consistently bashes socialist ideas?  That is more rhetorical and to bring awareness to any other readers then to garner a response from you, so you know.  Personally, if I knew someone enjoyed their socialist lifestyle, I would ask them what their favorite news agency was and then I would mark it down on my list of "suspect" media.

Are you even aware of the issue regarding the Muppets?  Are you aware of the context it was used in.  Do you understand the significance of using "an evil oil executive" in a kids movie and having to force the character into the spot where it was better fit by any other villain?  I am sure such subtlety escapes many but wonder had it been an "evil abortion doctor" if the same blindness would have been applied.  You present this Muppet incident like it was some full fledged Fox News covered item but it was mentioned on one show and the liberal grunts that look for anything to fault Fox News on quickly jumped on the topic and then misrepresented and exaggerated the short bit in the segment on the show to make it appear as if Fox News had "breaking now coverage" on it.  Why is it such an issue do you think?  Why do you know of it?  Why do you care that someone things that stealthy manipulation of children to always villainize the rich is a liberal tactic that needs to be curtailed?  Why is the evil villain in most westerns always a rich cattle baron with a massive herd of cattle that you always hear but never see?

I have never seen "The government thinks your kids should play violent and gory video games!" on Fox.  You are aware that often times when dealing with legal issues they will get two lawyers on the program and have them each take a  stance (one pro and one con and argue their points -- and even if they don't hold the position).  You can very well see a lawyer on Fox yelling an arguing an outrageous point along the lines of what is provided by law and being challenged in turn by another lawyer as if in a courtroom (the common segment for this is Kelly's Court).  After the round and round she will give her legal opinion of what was argued.  Considering most people on Fox think the government needs to stay out of our business and let the parents handle the kids I am pretty sure your proposed quote either came from such a segment or was entirely made up by the source you got it from.  You should investigate and see what is what.

[rghvac69]

I think all of the Republican nominees are good, but I'm leaning toward Newt because I think we need someone with big ideas and experience.

[sigmapi1501]

I think all of the Republican nominees are good, but I'm leaning toward Newt because I think we need someone with big ideas and experience.

And Ethics violations

[sigmapi1501]

@Abrupt.... If you don't even realize that Fox news is nothing more than GOP propaganda, then there is no reason to go back and forth.

I didn't lie about what you said. You said they exaggerate some things because we need to realize them. That's not reporting. That is telling the people what to think because you assume they are too stupid to come to the conclusion you desire by just reporting to them.  Quick example (grossly exaggerated; because somethings need to be):

Three poor people die in a fire. The Fire was caused by a faulty and outdated space heater. The people lived in low rent section 8 housing. 

Fox's spin.  Three people dead.  They were poor. It was probably their fault. They should have been rich.

[Abrupt]

@Abrupt.... If you don't even realize that Fox news is nothing more than GOP propaganda, then there is no reason to go back and forth.

I didn't lie about what you said. You said they exaggerate some things because we need to realize them. That's not reporting. That is telling the people what to think because you assume they are too stupid to come to the conclusion you desire by just reporting to them.  Quick example (grossly exaggerated; because somethings need to be):

Three poor people die in a fire. The Fire was caused by a faulty and outdated space heater. The people lived in low rent section 8 housing. 

Fox's spin.  Three people dead.  They were poor. It was probably their fault. They should have been rich.

Fox news is conservative, not GOP.  Simply because one is more apt to see a conservative in the GOP is why you likely make the connection.  They are harsh towards rhino's just the same as they are towards democratic liberals and socialists.  The other media would break their necks to prostrate themselves and then take any of the socialist democrats into their mouths.  They don't just advocate a position, they deliberately lie to their viewers and omit important pieces of information (such as context and sources and affiliations) and also omit news that is damaging to the DNC and the socialist movement.  Speaking of thinking for themselves, the obviousness of who believes citizens cannot think for themselves is clearly visible if you look at all the petty laws the liberals pass in the US and the even crazier ones they try to pass that don't get passed.

Once again you continue following the liberal mantra of misrepresent and repeat it until people become brainwashed into believing it.  First of all the original statement was that two shows on Fox I find more than once using exaggeration while you make it seem as if it is the entire network all the time.  Your liberal side exaggerates as the minimum and lies as the standard, and the bulk of your posts here clearly demonstrates that pattern -- and the reason I mention you in comparison as you are very liberal and obviously put in your belly the food that they give you.  You mentioned MSNBC, but where do they get their information...Media Matters...and where do they get their marching orders...straight from the white house.   The other left wing propaganda spewers are not as bad as MSNBC, but they will omit any information damaging to the socialist/liberal agenda and only reluctantly report on it after Fox has been mentioning it for over a week.  This is why people watch Fox is because they are starting to become obvious of the deception.  Any exaggeration Fox is guilty of, the others are guilty of one hundred fold worse.

You example, while you may contend it to be an exaggeration, I call it nothing more than a lie, for that is what it is.  You are apparently so use to having to misrepresent and lie about the facts that you don't even realize what you just did in your example.  With all the readily available exaggerations (as you claim), what do you choose to provide as proof of your point?  A deliberately made up lie about Fox coverage of a story.  That is purely laughable and completely exposes and discredits you.

[sigmapi1501]

Justifying Fox's gross journalism by saying "MSNBC does it too" doesn't work.  I don't find MSNBC credible.

I'm saying that you can't call the "media" liberal when the highest rated news is nothing more than right wing talking points.

[Falconer02]

The notions may be somewhat stereotypical but, they are for a reason.  Where you hint at antiquity you forget about culture.  Considering these other countries are highly socialistic it isn't any wonder they would be against the one news agency that doesn't blindly voice socialism.  Are you surprised that people from a socialist upbringing dislike a news agency that consistently bashes socialist ideas?  That is more rhetorical and to bring awareness to any other readers then to garner a response from you, so you know.  Personally, if I knew someone enjoyed their socialist lifestyle, I would ask them what their favorite news agency was and then I would mark it down on my list of "suspect" media.

Who said anything about socialism? You're trying to play down Fox News as being some sort of victim here. This has nothing to do with socialism or a liberal agenda. It has everything to do with Fox News just being a flatout bad source of news. Granted not all of it is fictitious or wrong, according to the statistics, Fox being a poor news source is completely true. Or do you believe those statistics are part of a socialist/liberal agenda as well?

Are you even aware of the issue regarding the Muppets?  Are you aware of the context it was used in.  Do you understand the significance of using "an evil oil executive" in a kids movie and having to force the character into the spot where it was better fit by any other villain?  I am sure such subtlety escapes many but wonder had it been an "evil abortion doctor" if the same blindness would have been applied.  You present this Muppet incident like it was some full fledged Fox News covered item but it was mentioned on one show and the liberal grunts that look for anything to fault Fox News on quickly jumped on the topic and then misrepresented and exaggerated the short bit in the segment on the show to make it appear as if Fox News had "breaking now coverage" on it. Why is it such an issue do you think?  Why do you know of it?  

Evil oil executives, evil rainforest destroyers, or evil land-grabbers are much more common in kids movies than an 'evil abortion doctor' (something that probably shouldn't be in a PG film with friendly puppets anyhoo...). You're taking an unrealistic and extremist stance on something that's really nothing more than a common stereotypical movie or cartoon antagonist. You have to understand that this is on the same level as those extremists who called "Captain Planet" a kids show promoting communist ideals when it was nothing more than a cheap show talking about responsibility in the environment...or the ones who claimed that "Sim City" was promoting a crazy liberal agenda. It's not news. It's comedy. And this instance had become a big deal because stupid things said on news channels deserve to be displayed, tarred, and feathered for their false and exhaggerated claims. Our society should value reason and truth, and Fox news has a long history of doing the exact opposites.

And I know of it because I like the muppets! When the new movie came out, I checked out the reviews on Rotten Tomatoes and then watched some clips on utube and voila- found it there on the side.

have never seen "The government thinks your kids should play violent and gory video games!" on Fox.  

It was actually on the main website, but I cannot find it. Many humorous pictures of it were circling around the net a while back. I'll have to get back to you on this though since I cannot find it atm.

Three poor people die in a fire. The Fire was caused by a faulty and outdated space heater. The people lived in low rent section 8 housing.  
Fox's spin.  Three people dead.  They were poor. It was probably their fault. They should have been rich.

I wholeheartedly agree with this example. Want to laugh?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNO6G4ApJQY

[Abrupt]

Justifying Fox's gross journalism by saying "MSNBC does it too" doesn't work.  I don't find MSNBC credible.

I'm saying that you can't call the "media" liberal when the highest rated news is nothing more than right wing talking points.

I didn't justify anything (other than that I don't mind exaggeration when an important topic is not realized for what it is -- such as a precursor or forerunner to something else) , and I especially would never make comparative justifications.  I included MSNBC to point out that it is an indirect arm of the White House via Media Matters, which is a direct arm.  Media Matters doesn't just write the news for MSNBC though, but for many of the other networks as well and often times word for word.  It is good you don't find them credible, but do you follow the connections back from there to the source of their 'news'?

Most of the media is liberal, with the most obvious exception being Fox.  Could it be that these 'right wing talking points' are what is important to the viewers and exactly aligned to their beliefs?  If so that would make them mainstream and not right wing and the others would be mostly left wing to extreme left wing (MSNBC).

[Abrupt]

Who said anything about socialism? You're trying to play down Fox News as being some sort of victim here. This has nothing to do with socialism or a liberal agenda. It has everything to do with Fox News just being a flatout bad source of news. Granted not all of it is fictitious or wrong, according to the statistics, Fox being a poor news source is completely true. Or do you believe those statistics are part of a socialist/liberal agenda as well?

I mentioned socialism to shed light on a missing variable for the reasons some don't like Fox News.  Could we agree that a socialist wouldn't like Fox News because it tends to voice capitalism?  Certainly a liberal wouldn't like Fox News because it advocates a more conservative voice.  I contend that a socialist or a liberal would not have a favorable view of Fox News strictly due to confirmation bias.  Every bit of statistics I see from reliable sources rate Fox News as a very reliable news source.  Again this is very unlike you to post a claim without supplying a source.  Hmm making me nearly suspicious enough to break out my archaic pattern analyzer...except that it never worked well in the first place...

Evil oil executives, evil rainforest destroyers, or evil land-grabbers are much more common in kids movies than an 'evil abortion doctor' (something that probably shouldn't be in a PG film with friendly puppets anyhoo...). You're taking an unrealistic and extremist stance on something that's really nothing more than a common stereotypical movie or cartoon antagonist. You have to understand that this is on the same level as those extremists who called "Captain Planet" a kids show promoting communist ideals when it was nothing more than a cheap show talking about responsibility in the environment...or the ones who claimed that "Sim City" was promoting a crazy liberal agenda. It's not news. It's comedy. And this instance had become a big deal because stupid things said on news channels deserve to be displayed, tarred, and feathered for their false and exhaggerated claims. Our society should value reason and truth, and Fox news has a long history of doing the exact opposites.

And I know of it because I like the muppets! When the new movie came out, I checked out the reviews on Rotten Tomatoes and then watched some clips on utube and voila- found it there on the side.

There is a reason for this, and it is a type of bias.  I suppose an "evil environmentalist" would be a better choice than an abortion doctor for my point, but that was the first thing that came to mind.  Personally I think it was a bit of  high brow humor on Eric's part and if you have never watched much of him you wouldn't tend to appreciate his animated style.  Generally when I watch him I know he is going to make a point but he is going to exaggerate and actually make the example humorous and enjoyable.  That doesn't discredit the basic truth of what he says though.  The point he was making was that it is a type of indoctrination set at the young.  It might seem rather timid to you, but the prevalence of such things in kids programming and education does indoctrinate them into a mindset of a tendency to think in one way.  They are being taught that being rich and successful, and being skilled and performing well at a task is a bad thing.  They are being taught that being ineffective and impotent in capability are perfectly acceptable.  These things are subtle and incapable of penetrating the established thoughts of most adults, but children are impressionable and shouldn't be forced to choose a side on a matter that is out of their element of understanding or appreciating.

I also like the Muppets (except for Miss Piggy -- I never could stand her).

have never seen "The government thinks your kids should play violent and gory video games!" on Fox.  

It was actually on the main website, but I cannot find it. Many humorous pictures of it were circling around the net a while back. I'll have to get back to you on this though since I cannot find it atm.

Three poor people die in a fire. The Fire was caused by a faulty and outdated space heater. The people lived in low rent section 8 housing.  
Fox's spin.  Three people dead.  They were poor. It was probably their fault. They should have been rich.

I wholeheartedly agree with this example. Want to laugh?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNO6G4ApJQY

That was a Fox affiliate, not FNC so please make the distinction.  I think if you removed the silly sound effects it would have been perfectly fine, and fairly accurate, but with the sound yeah I did laugh.  Certainly you are not defending Anonymous are you?  I have had personal experience with other hackers and generally found most to be fragile and emotionally unstable people.  One threw a monitor at me in a lab once back in the good old days of DOS after I bested him in a little coding challenge.  He quit and never returned.

[sigmapi1501]

I don't like Fox news because they blatantly lie. Union members protested in Madison, WI. Fox news reported "riots". The footage shown had Palm trees in the background... You know, the kind of trees that grow commonly in Wisconsin.

[Falconer02]

Could we agree that a socialist wouldn't like Fox News because it tends to voice capitalism?

Sure, but they probably wouldn't like it due to the old conservative qualities rather than the capitalist qualities moreover since those are usually first to stick out.

Every bit of statistics I see from reliable sources rate Fox News as a very reliable news source.

Again this is very unlike you to post a claim without supplying a source.

I haven't seen studies showing that Fox is reliable mainly due to the massive amount of flak it gets for the inconsistencies. I had supplied info earlier but it was just directed at Sigi. And I've been trying to cut down on posting links in general just because another member said I post too many :-/

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=media-bias-presidential-election
http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1067
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fox_News_Channel_controversies

There is a reason for this, and it is a type of bias.  I suppose an "evil environmentalist" would be a better choice than an abortion doctor for my point, but that was the first thing that came to mind.  Personally I think it was a bit of  high brow humor on Eric's part and if you have never watched much of him you wouldn't tend to appreciate his animated style.  Generally when I watch him I know he is going to make a point but he is going to exaggerate and actually make the example humorous and enjoyable.  That doesn't discredit the basic truth of what he says though.  The point he was making was that it is a type of indoctrination set at the young.  It might seem rather timid to you, but the prevalence of such things in kids programming and education does indoctrinate them into a mindset of a tendency to think in one way.  They are being taught that being rich and successful, and being skilled and performing well at a task is a bad thing.  They are being taught that being ineffective and impotent in capability are perfectly acceptable.  These things are subtle and incapable of penetrating the established thoughts of most adults, but children are impressionable and shouldn't be forced to choose a side on a matter that is out of their element of understanding or appreciating.

This is simply not true. If there ever was an underlying message in kid's media, it's generally just about being cautious to avoid large problems (thinking ahead) or caring about the environment. Kids are not taught to fear success. If they were, the main characters would never succeed in their task. Almost all story-oriented media follows an old pattern of getting struck with a problem, finding a way to solve that problem, refining the skill to defeat the problem, tackling it, and then learning the moral at the end. Even Spongebob does this (...usually...).

Kids are impressionable, but any 'secretive theme' in media will usually pass right over their head. One could argue that Super Mario is promoting communism because he looks like Stalin and at the end of each level he lowers a peace flag, walks into the castle, and raises a red star. But no kid is going to grow up and become a communist or sport comrade ideals because of that. To them a cigar is just a cigar.

I think if you removed the silly sound effects it would have been perfectly fine, and fairly accurate, but with the sound yeah I did laugh.

Glad you did. I have sort of a love-hate relationship with Anonymous and have a friend who loosely associates with them (though she's far from unstable). They can be major idiotic trolls, but at the same time they do target things that I deem acceptable like Scientology, Ebaumsworld, Westboro, etc. It really just depends on the target. I have $10,000 worth of scientology information because of them hacking and spreading it across the net. Did you know Jesus got his powers from touching a crashed UFO? It's true!

Union members protested in Madison, WI. Fox news reported "riots". The footage shown had Palm trees in the background... You know, the kind of trees that grow commonly in Wisconsin.

I've been to Madison and I must say I've always admired those trees in the coldest of winters.