Occupy Wall Street

[hoshyarbaba]

Are you for or against this movement?

[falcon9]

Are you for or against this movement?

Yes.

[Falconer02]

In the near future I hope to post a thread about the movement and how it's highly significant to the upcoming election. I support the movement wholeheartedly and I think almost everyone here on FC does too-- I believe it to be somewhat hypocritical if someone speaks against the movement and what it stands for when they're overworked/not working and their wallet is always empty.

[Abrupt]

Call me a hypocrite all you want to and be so informed that you are as mistaken as you can be.  Obviously I do not support OWS but they did finally do one thing correct and did a sit in at a government office (where they should have been all along -- and with a name change too).  I am no beggar and nobody owes me a damned thing.  I am responsible for everything in my life and every aspect of anything my life touches.  I earn what I deserve, no more and no less.  I don't have to have internet, satellite, cell phone service, trendy fashionable clothing strictly for style, shiny objects, etc...I choose these things even though they sometimes force me to work harder and do extra to afford them.  You can take everything from me .. just leave me a knife, rod and reel and some tackle, or a firearm and I will be just as fine for the rest of my days.

Hypocritical?  Hell no and neither am I blind or a *bleep*.

[Falconer02]

Call me a hypocrite all you want to and be so informed that you are as mistaken as you can be.

I said "almost". And considering what the next thing I quoted from you says, I'm not mistaken.

I am no beggar and nobody owes me a damned thing.

Granted there are the idiots in the movement (as there are in all), this is not what the OWS is about.
http://occupywallst.org/about/

I earn what I deserve, no more and no less. I don't have to have internet, satellite, cell phone service, trendy fashionable clothing strictly for style, shiny objects, etc...I choose these things even though they sometimes force me to work harder and do extra to afford them.  

Good for you! I support this same ideal! But a lot of people don't earn what they truly deserve and are seeing a severe decline in their living standards due to higher-ups purposely making mistakes to screw others over and banking off of it. Since you state that you aren't one of these people, I'm under the impression you do not understand their situation but only your own.

You can take everything from me .. just leave me a knife, rod and reel and some tackle, or a firearm and I will be just as fine for the rest of my days.

This is a trend I keep seeing with people that throw flak at the movement. A major point of it all is wanting improvement in our banking and business systems in order to stop what has already gone down and continues to go down on a daily basis. People of the OWS movement want better order in the current system so they don't have to have everything taken away from them. It's great to see that you've got a survivalist instinct, but (on a broader scale) the movement is just saying "If we get better management in this system, you shoudln't/won't have to go to that level". Peace and prosperity, friend.

[Abrupt]

I said "almost". And considering what the next thing I quoted from you says, I'm not mistaken.

True enough you did at that.  I think I was feeling a bit cantankerous (I don't get to use that word often) so pardon my approach if it seemed less than civil.

Granted there are the idiots in the movement (as there are in all), this is not what the OWS is about.
http://occupywallst.org/about/

I have never figured out what they were about and even with the mainstream media and many liberal politicians would would think they would have a clear message.  I watch the news daily and from multiple sources and none of them projects any rationale behind the masses of this movement.  The name itself implies a focus of its ire and this alone is enough to put me off.

Good for you! I support this same ideal! But a lot of people don't earn what they truly deserve and are seeing a severe decline in their living standards due to higher-ups purposely making mistakes to screw others over and banking off of it. Since you state that you aren't one of these people, I'm under the impression you do not understand their situation but only your own.

Damned you did an edit while I was posting a reply and it threw me off as I thought I was losing my mind (nothing wrong with your editing your post I do the same sometimes it just happened that I was replying to the original and was going to answer a different question of yours but now it isn't here and I am drawing a blank and just typing away with nothing to say for some strange reason -- I always wondered what would happen if someone did a reply while I was doing an edit and I got to tell you it is something strange and is kind of like that Twilight Zone episode with the dog and the goat but only different).  Yeah I suppose you are quite right with me not understanding their situation.  The concept is 'foreign' to me honestly.  If I were not making what I deserved I would change jobs (yeah people will fire back with the 'but, but, but' and I see it is as simple as that, go work the job you get paid what you deserve and if you can't find it then you know you likely already had it).  Granter their are people making mistakes and damaging our way of life.  These people are in the government though mostly (some on wall street too but their influence is only what you extend to them).  The good intentions of our government have placed us in this jeopardy we are in.  The social programs and the regulations and the forced lending practices are chief among these.  My main problem with OWS is that they want more interference from the government when that is the exact reason we are in the mess we are in.

[Falconer02]

Hahah yeah I did edit it like 2-3 times. I didn't think you were still online, so sorry about that. I'll get back to you tomorrow though. Have a good night!

[gazikas]

I found it interesting reading your posts.  I have to say I am wondering exactly what the Occupy Wall Street is demanding.  All I have seen on the news is the moments of sensationalism.  I wonder too when no where do I see the clear statements of what they are trying to accomplish.  Anything I have heard is vague . . .  somewhere in the leadership of this movement is a flaw or it is like arguing with someone that can't tell you what they are really arguing about or want to accomplish.  I look forward to reading more of your posts here.  I would like to understand what they are standing for and trying to accomplish.  The people involved seem passionate but it is a shame there is a loss of clarity in their message whether because the media doesn't report it or the organizers are weak in that area of communication.

[willisbruskie1985]

I'm all for it. I'm just a dumb democrat tho. I don't mean to get off base here and stir something else that should be in a different thread but let me just say, I voted for Pres. Obama and though i am a dem and so is he i don't agree with everything. But, for the most part i agree. I plan on voting for him for 2012. The republican candidates scare the pee out of me.

[GramPolly3]

I support Occupy 100%. There can be no change without the people rising up as has been shown historically. It is a movement not only here but all over the world. One man or one government cannot right the wrongs that have been dealt to the citizens through others greed. They arrest the demonstrators but the people who have committed crime and fraud,against not  only us as a people but against the whole financial system that we contribute to, are not prosecuted nor held accountable. Our "government " is a shambles and no longer represents us, but the moneyed interests that brought us down in the first place. This is a rather simplistic explanation of what the movement is about.
I am a veteran of the civil rights movement and the war protests and see this as a continuation of those efforts. I can no longer march and demonstrate but if I could I would be there.
If you are really happy with not only your life but the way that makes being homeless, poverty-stricken with no way to support your family who has no health care, then sit on your behind and be critical.

[hoshyarbaba]

I am personally for this movement although i had some problem with them associating it with the occupy black friday. Black Friday was very important to the blue collar americans who are lucky enough to be employed right now

[Abrupt]

I'm all for it. I'm just a dumb democrat tho. I don't mean to get off base here and stir something else that should be in a different thread but let me just say, I voted for Pres. Obama and though i am a dem and so is he i don't agree with everything. But, for the most part i agree. I plan on voting for him for 2012. The republican candidates scare the pee out of me.

What is it about the Republican candidates that scares you?  Is it the media's intentional descriptions of them as "conservative", "right wing", "extreme", etc that does so? 

Personally I am more frightened with facts such as Obama being an admitted associate and admirer of known terrorists, his use of American resources and coin to launch assaults upon Americans while advocating superior rights to Foreign nationals than American citizens receive, his attempts at micromanaging of  American companies and federal departments (really now, NASA having its primary purpose changed to "investigating ways to make Muslim nations feel good about themselves", using ICE to crackdown on websites selling counterfeit goods and websites illegally streaming copyrighted media?), his natural instincts to be a follower instead of a leader after assuming the job that requires the strongest leadership possible, his contempt with The Constitution, his natural criticism of Americans and praise for Foreign nationals, and the list goes on and on.

[Abrupt]

I support Occupy 100%. There can be no change without the people rising up as has been shown historically. It is a movement not only here but all over the world. One man or one government cannot right the wrongs that have been dealt to the citizens through others greed. They arrest the demonstrators but the people who have committed crime and fraud,against not  only us as a people but against the whole financial system that we contribute to, are not prosecuted nor held accountable. Our "government " is a shambles and no longer represents us, but the moneyed interests that brought us down in the first place. This is a rather simplistic explanation of what the movement is about.
I am a veteran of the civil rights movement and the war protests and see this as a continuation of those efforts. I can no longer march and demonstrate but if I could I would be there.
If you are really happy with not only your life but the way that makes being homeless, poverty-stricken with no way to support your family who has no health care, then sit on your behind and be critical.

You stress that "It is a movement not only here but all over the world." as if that is a good thing.  Considering that we are the best of what the world has to offer since we are made up of the best of what the world has to offer I would not be so quick as to wish to be in any way in agreement with the best of the world.  The king of the hill shouldn't wish to be like those at the bottom.

It isn't wall streets greed that got us into this situation.  It is OUR greed.  Our greed has exposed us to risks and unless we can admit that then no movement will ever accomplish anything.  Our governments involvement in regulating financial guidelines has exposed us to this risk, under the guise of social justice and fairness.  These regulations cause us to be lazy and not do our proper homework and assume that any investment we venture will return a profit without risk ipso facto.  This is pure greed and foolishness on our behalf and the very fact that people will double down on a 16 into an ace and then cry when they lose fills me with contempt and disgust.

Neither my life nor the American Way has anything to do with making people homeless or poverty stricken and that is a fallacy to present that and reveals a dishonest way arguing that lessens any value you might have to present.  Health Care?  To Hades with health care.  I don't have it by choice and no government will ever force me to have it.  People like you who wish to steal my freedom and enslave my children and lineage for a pipe dream that could only ever accomplish the exact opposite of its intentions makes me wonder how people can manage to be so shortsighted and foolish.

I admire the Civil Rights movement and count among my heroes members of it, but I know what they stood for and they never asked for anything special.  They never asked to strip the freedoms and rights of others for their sake.  They only ever asked to be treated as truly free people and be allowed to live free (which is exactly the opposite of mandated health care and the encumbrance of an ever regulating and increasingly meddlesome government that does instead of its duties everything else.

[falcon9]

Personally I am more frightened with facts such as Obama being an admitted associate and admirer of known terrorists, his use of American resources and coin to launch assaults upon Americans while advocating superior rights to Foreign nationals than American citizens receive, his attempts at micromanaging of  American companies and federal departments (really now, NASA having its primary purpose changed to "investigating ways to make Muslim nations feel good about themselves" ... )

What are the reference sources for these alleged "facts"?  For instance, I have been unable to discern that NASA's primary purpose changed to "investigating ways to make Muslim nations feel good about themselves" from database searches of mission directorates, etc..

[falcon9]

It isn't wall streets greed that got us into this situation.  It is OUR greed.  Our greed has exposed us to risks and unless we can admit that then no movement will ever accomplish anything.  Our governments involvement in regulating financial guidelines has exposed us to this risk, under the guise of social justice and fairness. 

This is incorrect; it was and is unregulated derivative instruments, (a multi-trillion dollar 'shadow' banking system), which Wall Street brokerages and wealthy investors took advantage of - directly contributing to the current economic situation.  These irresponsible clowns then begged for and received multi-billion dollar bailouts for being greedy and irresponsible.