Faith

[SurveyMack10]

I feel like no matter how many times I try to end the conversation and keep it on a somewhat mature note another issue gets drug up so that it will continue, and I know that if I leave any matter hanging and dont refute the ...

You've been unable to refute the challenges made to your unsupported assertions. Snide remarks about 'maturity' notwithstanding; how "mature" is it to make unsubstantiated assertions in the Debate + Discuss forum and then 'leave that matter handing' when challenged to support your claims?  At the very least, it is extremely disingenuous of you.

... then the next time we are even in a debate I will be accused of "dodging."

Those weren't simply accusations of your dodging supporting your own claims, no evidence exists in these threads of your substantiating your empty declarations.  You have however, attempt to recast them as "opinions" in the forlorn hope that any nonsense whatsoever can be concealed beneath that 'banner'.

And the random attack at you just now was totally unwarranted especially considering all you did was say that my post was clearly stated.

« Reply #305 on: Today at 12:37:17 pm » Message ID: 437563
Quote from: jcribb16 on Today at 08:33:01 am:

"I would say that you have been very clear and straightforward with your response here."


Your opinion isn't surprising in this context, especially given your suspension of debating another subject in another thread.


Hardly an "attack", random or otherwise. You're posts resemble that of a very defensive person.

I sincerely am not worried about your opinion of me, so if you think I'm defensive that's fine.
As for the remarks about me not backing up anything I said, I cannot force you to accept my evidence as you have yet to accepted anything that I have said that did not coincide with your beliefs.
I'm not too worried about it as I have realized we will continue to disagree.

[SurveyMack10]

Also, we are not required to debate anything with anyone...

The forum is entitled Debate+Discuss, not Baseless Opinionating+Whinging.  However, while it is true that participates are not _required_ to debate or discuss, it is not true that publically posted unsupported assertions are required to go unchallenged.  Don't like that state of affairs?  Don't post unsupported assertions with the unrealistic expectation that they won't be challenged.

...just because we post an opinion doesn't mean we have to justify it to anyone else.  

Again, attempting to recast your empty assertion as an "opinion" does not relieve a public post from being challenged in the D+D forum.

No one is complaining about challenges being made, just saying that a justification of a personal opinion is not required.

[jcribb16]

Quote from: jcribb16 on Today at 08:44:24 pm
I don't care to get into with you about your response in regards to my opinion, because I don't care to get on the merry-go-round with you about just exactly what you were trying to imply.

Quote from: falcon9:
I'll tell you this much, no "random attack" was made nor, implied.  The intent was that, as a xtian believer, you'd have a strong inclination to agree with another one, (rather than with an opposing viewpoint), and that bias is inherent.

There most definitely was a "personal jab" inferred (implied.)  I disagree with you with what you say my intent was.  I agree with people on things said or actions taken, no matter whether they are a Christian or not.  That is a "bias" statement you made about me - you are prejudiced with your remark because I am a Christian, and that is unfair to me and to those in this forum whom I've had the pleasure (and/or displeasure) to debate with.  There are a couple of nonbelievers in this thread who I've debated with, and I've agreed with them on certain remarks or issues when the other side said something I felt was incorrect.  There are also nonbelievers and Christians both who I am friends with or like to talk with outside of debating in this forum.  I try to be as objective as possible and not be "biased" toward someone because they may not believe as I do.

[falcon9]

Even so, I haven't seen anything ugly spewing from you!

There's that bias mentioned previously and a false observation given to boot!  If you'd like a string of "ugly" quotes made by 'Surveymack10', these can be reposted.  Are you sure you want to make false statements in that regard?

[falcon9]

There most definitely was a "personal jab" inferred (implied.)

If the implied "jab" was that a xtian sided with a xtian, then yes, it was a 'jab". 

I disagree with you with what you say my intent was. ]/quote]


Then provide the reasoning why and the alternate intent.  Or don't, your choice.

I agree with people on things said or actions taken, no matter whether they are a Christian or not.

Perhaps so, there's no evidence of that within the disputed threads so, that remains an inconclusive assertion. 

That is a "bias" statement you made about me - you are prejudiced with your remark because I am a Christian, and that is unfair to me and to those in this forum whom I've had the pleasure (and/or displeasure) to debate with.

You are mistaken regarding 'prejudice' against xtians as regards my posts.  There no no examples of my specifically and unambiguously exhibiting stated bias against anyone due to their religious or nonreligious stance.  My comment implied that it wasn't all that remarkable for one xtian to agree/side with another.  That's why there are huge congregations of 'em, despite internal disparaties of understanding.

There are a couple of nonbelievers in this thread who I've debated with, and I've agreed with them on certain remarks or issues when the other side said something I felt was incorrect. ]/quote] [/color]

I'm unaware of those instances to which you refer.  Have you got any examples or message IDs available so that I could have a look at them?
 

[SurveyMack10]

Even so, I haven't seen anything ugly spewing from you!

There's that bias mentioned previously and a false observation given to boot!  If you'd like a string of "ugly" quotes made by 'Surveymack10', these can be reposted.  Are you sure you want to make false statements in that regard?

I have openly admitted to slipping and getting dragged down a level of hatefulness, I think what she meant is that I wasn't intentionally jabbing at others and bringing up personal insults without being provoked. I don't KNOW that this was her meaning, but I really don't think she meant that I was a saint and have been nothing but sugar sweet this entire time, as that is obviously not right

[jcribb16]

Even so, I haven't seen anything ugly spewing from you!

There's that bias mentioned previously and a false observation given to boot!  If you'd like a string of "ugly" quotes made by 'Surveymack10', these can be reposted.  Are you sure you want to make false statements in that regard?

Both of you have gotten heated, and that's pretty normal when buttons start getting pushed on both sides.  As far as filthy words - what I meant by ugly - there has not been that from her nor from you. Sparked words? Yes.  For the type of words she has used, there are words you have used, as well, that try and make her views look "empty," "baseless opinion," "whining," "defensive," etc.  

[falcon9]

You've been unable to refute the challenges made to your unsupported assertions. Snide remarks about 'maturity' notwithstanding; how "mature" is it to make unsubstantiated assertions in the Debate + Discuss forum and then 'leave that matter handing' when challenged to support your claims?  At the very least, it is extremely disingenuous of you.

... then the next time we are even in a debate I will be accused of "dodging."

Those weren't simply accusations of your dodging supporting your own claims, no evidence exists in these threads of your substantiating your empty declarations.  You have however, attempt to recast them as "opinions" in the forlorn hope that any nonsense whatsoever can be concealed beneath that 'banner'.


 
 

As for the remarks about me not backing up anything I said, I cannot force you to accept my evidence

You failed to produce _any_ valid evidence to back up your empty assertions.  Producing 14 message IDs worth of posts whose content expressly Did Not back up your assertion that "atheism is a belief system" don't constitute valid evidence.  Producing a dictionary definition which did not include reference to atheism as "a belief system" does not constitute valid evidence supporting your claim.  "Discussing" the subject does not constitute valid evidence supporting your claim.  Therefore, no valid evidence has been presented thusfar to support your claim which means that your assertion was an empty opinion, (one without foundational substantiation).  And yes, 'Virgina', you are "entitled" to have empty opinions.

[SurveyMack10]

You've been unable to refute the challenges made to your unsupported assertions. Snide remarks about 'maturity' notwithstanding; how "mature" is it to make unsubstantiated assertions in the Debate + Discuss forum and then 'leave that matter handing' when challenged to support your claims?  At the very least, it is extremely disingenuous of you.

... then the next time we are even in a debate I will be accused of "dodging."

Those weren't simply accusations of your dodging supporting your own claims, no evidence exists in these threads of your substantiating your empty declarations.  You have however, attempt to recast them as "opinions" in the forlorn hope that any nonsense whatsoever can be concealed beneath that 'banner'.


 
 

As for the remarks about me not backing up anything I said, I cannot force you to accept my evidence

You failed to produce _any_ valid evidence to back up your empty assertions.  Producing 14 message IDs worth of posts whose content expressly Did Not back up your assertion that "atheism is a belief system" don't constitute valid evidence.  Producing a dictionary definition which did not include reference to atheism as "a belief system" does not constitute valid evidence supporting your claim.  "Discussing" the subject does not constitute valid evidence supporting your claim.  Therefore, no valid evidence has been presented thusfar to support your claim which means that your assertion was an empty opinion, (one without foundational substantiation).  And yes, 'Virgina', you are "entitled" to have empty opinions.

It is seriously unbelievable that you refuse to acknowledge that we have different opinions and simply cannot accept it. You can continue to repeat yourself, but I am still going to agree to disagree because I realize that not everyone believes what I do and that is their right.

[falcon9]

Also, we are not required to debate anything with anyone...

The forum is entitled Debate+Discuss, not Baseless Opinionating+Whinging.  However, while it is true that participates are not _required_ to debate or discuss, it is not true that publically posted unsupported assertions are required to go unchallenged.  Don't like that state of affairs?  Don't post unsupported assertions with the unrealistic expectation that they won't be challenged.

...just because we post an opinion doesn't mean we have to justify it to anyone else.  

Again, attempting to recast your empty assertion as an "opinion" does not relieve a public post from being challenged in the D+D forum.

No one is complaining about challenges being made, just saying that a justification of a personal opinion is not required.

That's false and remains false even after attempts to recast your original assertion that "atheism is a belief system" as an "opinion".  Characterizing your unsupported claim as an "opinion" in D+D does not relieve the claimaint of the responsibility to substantiate their claim when challenged in debate to do so.  Certainly, the claimaint can refuse such challenges, (as you did), and therefore tacitly concedes that their claim was empty, (bereft of substantiation).

[SurveyMack10]

Also, we are not required to debate anything with anyone...

The forum is entitled Debate+Discuss, not Baseless Opinionating+Whinging.  However, while it is true that participates are not _required_ to debate or discuss, it is not true that publically posted unsupported assertions are required to go unchallenged.  Don't like that state of affairs?  Don't post unsupported assertions with the unrealistic expectation that they won't be challenged.

...just because we post an opinion doesn't mean we have to justify it to anyone else.  

Again, attempting to recast your empty assertion as an "opinion" does not relieve a public post from being challenged in the D+D forum.

No one is complaining about challenges being made, just saying that a justification of a personal opinion is not required.

That's false and remains false even after attempts to recast your original assertion that "atheism is a belief system" as an "opinion".  Characterizing your unsupported claim as an "opinion" in D+D does not relieve the claimaint of the responsibility to substantiate their claim when challenged in debate to do so.  Certainly, the claimaint can refuse such challenges, (as you did), and therefore tacitly concedes that their claim was empty, (bereft of substantiation).

[/quote]

No one here has to justify their opinion to you just because you say so.

[falcon9]

Even so, I haven't seen anything ugly spewing from you!

There's that bias mentioned previously and a false observation given to boot!  If you'd like a string of "ugly" quotes made by 'Surveymack10', these can be reposted.  Are you sure you want to make false statements in that regard?

I have openly admitted to slipping and getting dragged down a level of hatefulness, I think what she meant is that I wasn't intentionally jabbing at others and bringing up personal insults without being provoked. I don't KNOW that this was her meaning, but I really don't think she meant that I was a saint and have been nothing but sugar sweet this entire time, as that is obviously not right

Provoked?  What about your provoking me?  Doesn't count unless it's your 'excuse', or does that go both ways?

[jcribb16]

Quote from: jcribb16 on Today at 09:36:57 pm
That is a "bias" statement you made about me - you are prejudiced with your remark because I am a Christian, and that is unfair to me and to those in this forum whom I've had the pleasure (and/or displeasure) to debate with.

Quote from: falcon9:
You are mistaken regarding 'prejudice' against xtians as regards my posts.  There no no examples of my specifically and unambiguously exhibiting stated bias against anyone due to their religious or nonreligious stance.  My comment implied that it wasn't all that remarkable for one xtian to agree/side with another.  That's why there are huge congregations of 'em, despite internal disparaties of understanding.

Your comment was directly aimed at me, at that moment.


Quote from: jcribb16 on Today at 09:36:57 pm
There are a couple of nonbelievers in this thread who I've debated with, and I've agreed with them on certain remarks or issues when the other side said something I felt was incorrect. ]/quote] [/color]


Quote from: falcon9:
I'm unaware of those instances to which you refer.  Have you got any examples or message IDs available so that I could have a look at them?

If you are so inclined to read them, then you can search.  I'm not going back to look just to prove my answer to you. You can choose to believe or disbelieve - we have lives outside of this forum and I would be wasting precious time with my family just to go back through a year's worth of debates to prove something to you.  They know who they are about whom I'm speakiing of but I'm not bringing their names into this only because it's not fair to involve them in something they may be choosing to stay out of.
 

[falcon9]

For the type of words she has used, there are words you have used, as well, that try and make her views look "empty," "baseless opinion," "whining," "defensive," etc.  

Our interpretations are bound to be at variance howver, I quoted her own words, (which have standard inherent meanings), and had no need to "try and ,ake her views look 'empty', 'baseless opinion', etc..  As for the defensiveness and whining, those were subjective impressions of textual remarks she'd made, (such qualities as "tone" or, "inflection" are difficult to discern in a text medium).

[falcon9]

It is seriously unbelievable that you refuse to acknowledge that we have different opinions

As alluded to; there are vast differences between unsubstantiated, (empty), "opinions" and substantiated, (supported with evidence or lines of reasoning), ones.  I can't be sure why this distinction continues to elude your understanding.

You can continue to repeat yourself, but I am still ... simply cannot accept it.

The word order you used above was slightly rearranged for accuracy, (the content wasn't altered however, the underlying meaning becomes clearer with that word sequence).