If you don't believe in Jesus Christ, do you still celebrate Christmas?

[2getherwewin]

YES, I BELIEVE IN JESUS

[ptfunds]

I am really happy to see that one of the posters appropriately aligned Christmas with the pagan Winter Solstice celebration.  Few people who celebrate the holiday actually know the history of its origin.  Good for you and thanks for sharing this accurate information!

[falcon9]

I am really happy to see that one of the posters appropriately aligned Christmas with the pagan Winter Solstice celebration.  Few people who celebrate the holiday actually know the history of its origin.  Good for you and thanks for sharing this accurate information!

Thanks for that.  Fewer still recall that there once was, (back around 217 BC), a week-long pagan celebration preceding winter solstice called, "Saturnalia".  Saturnalia used to run just a couple of days but, expanded to a fest lasting from December 17th through December 23rd.  Primarily a Roman festival, Saturnalia formed the roots for The Fraternis Saturni, an ancient occult order of Saturn worship.  I found it somewhat ironic that a pagan festival was stolen by the xtians, pilfered in turn by "Gregor A. Gregorius" as an offshoot of Aleister Crowley’s Thelema, only to be appropriated by modern day commercialism.  

Apparently, that was sufficient prostitution for even a fictional Santa to exclaim, "Ho, ho ho!"

[JediJohnnie]

It's pretty common knowledge that the Bible doesn't give the date of Jesus birth.The early church chose to celebrate Christ's birth in direct opposition to the pagan festivals of the time.

[falcon9]

The early church chose to celebrate Christ's birth in direct opposition to the pagan festivals of the time.

More accurately, the "early church" chose to steal/appropriate/pilfer/co-opt/pre-empt/swipe/absorb/hyjack and alter perfectly good pre-existing pagan holidays because they're thieves.

[Falconer02]

Apparently, that was sufficient prostitution for even a fictional Santa to exclaim, "Ho, ho ho!"

That is hilarious.

The early church chose to celebrate Christ's birth in direct opposition to the pagan festivals of the time.

The force is not strong with this one.

[falcon9]

Apparently, that was sufficient prostitution for even a fictional Santa to exclaim, "Ho, ho ho!"

That is hilarious.

The early church chose to celebrate Christ's birth in direct opposition to the pagan festivals of the time.

The force is not strong with this one.

Your conclusion is consistant with johnnie's own posted remarks and I'd concur.

[jcribb16]

Christians can't deny that some Christmas traditions are traced back to pagan celebrations and cultures. There are a couple examples:

**For the pagans winter celebration, ringing of bells were done to drive out the evil spirits.  For the Christians, the ringing of bells were done to welcome in Christmas with joy and happiness.  The Christians are reminded of the birth of Jesus.

**Pagans also used candle lighting to drive away the forces of cold and darkness.  Christians light them at Christmas to rejoice in Jesus, the "Light of the World" - John 1:4-9.

**Druids offered gifts to their goats as part of a pagn ritual.  In today's time, gifts are given to loved ones and friends.  Biblically speaking, Jesus was the first and greatest gift ever given.  The Magi, or Wisemen, gave gifts to Jesus, the child.  His birth is considered worthy of celebration.
 
What's important to Christians is our traditions (of today) and what they mean to us as believers in Jesus. The origins of pagans had their traditions - however, the early believers, through the churches, wanted ways to celebrate Jesus's birth.   
 
This is where personal choice comes in.  If people don't want to celebrate a Christmas tradition because they believe it's too steeped in paganism, then they don't have to observe it.  At the same time, if people feel that they can honor and worship God through a particular tradition, then they can observe it if they choose.

I would like to add, however, that there are also people who celebrate Christmas who aren't believers.  They enjoy the tradition of family and friends getting together, dinners, presents, etc., without acknowledging anything Christian about it.  There are other people who don't celebrate Christmas at all. That is their choice, as well.
 
Another thing I'd like to address is that it is said that it's documented that Jesus was born on December 25th. (There are some who disagree and since the Bible doesn't mention the exact date, apparently this is something we don't need to concern ourselves with.) The December 25th date coincided with the pagan festivals celebrating the winter solstice.  The churches simply offered a Christian alternative for celebrating the birth of Christ and adjusted the ways of the pagans' celebrating to adapt to Christian ways.

[falcon9]

Christians can't deny that some Christmas traditions are traced back to pagan celebrations and cultures. 

The December 25th date coincided with the pagan festivals celebrating the winter solstice.  The churches simply offered a Christian alternative for celebrating the birth of Christ and adjusted the ways of the pagans' celebrating to adapt to Christian ways.

I suppose one could characterize the co-opting of pagan festivals and rites which existed for far longer than xtianity had as 'simply a christian alternative' for absorbing and erasing entire previous belief systems.  The use of "adjusted the ways of the pagans" was a particularly insidious euphemism, however.  The sheer hubris involved is astounding.

[jcribb16]

Christians can't deny that some Christmas traditions are traced back to pagan celebrations and cultures. 

The December 25th date coincided with the pagan festivals celebrating the winter solstice.  The churches simply offered a Christian alternative for celebrating the birth of Christ and adjusted the ways of the pagans' celebrating to adapt to Christian ways.

I suppose one could characterize the co-opting of pagan festivals and rites which existed for far longer than xtianity had as 'simply a christian alternative' for absorbing and erasing entire previous belief systems.  The use of "adjusted the ways of the pagans" was a particularly insidious euphemism, however.  The sheer hubris involved is astounding.

On the contrary.  The church's alternative did not absorb and erase the previous belief systems.  The pagans could carry on as they wished.  I want to clarify "adjusted the ways of the pagans" did not mean what you are implying that I meant - it meant, as you know what I meant, that they used the pagan's ideas and came up with their own way of celebrating for religious reasons.  I might add that this was also centuries later.

[falcon9]

On the contrary.  The church's alternative did not absorb and erase the previous belief systems. 

I could cite other instances to the Crusades and "Holy Wars" as evidence to the contrary if that massive amount of substantiation isn't enough.

The pagans could carry on as they wished. 

You mean, they could convert or go underground with their previous beliefs, (since xtian 'missionaries' were "spreading the word" at the point of a sword)?

I want to clarify "adjusted the ways of the pagans" did not mean what you are implying that I meant - it meant, as you know what I meant, that they used the pagan's ideas and came up with their own way of celebrating for religious reasons.  I might add that this was also centuries later.

Apparently, it did mean what I contended it meant; "used pagan ideas" means they stole/appropriated/plagiarized them.  That makes them cultural thieves.  This is historically clear and there's no need to rephrase it to white-wash it.

[mh874892]

I am a Christian and Christmas is one of the happiest times for me because it brings all of our family together and some of my best memories are from Christmas times. But to answer the question at hand, I know of many non-Christians who do celebrate it, just not for religious purposes. As many others have said, Christmas has a very long history and people interpret these occurrences in different ways. It all depends on what you do or do not believe in. I have to say I agree with JCribb, even thought I do think the commercialism of Christmas is absolutely ridiculous. 

[jcribb16]

I would like to suggest that the readers research, if they so desire and/or have the time, paganism/Christian holidays and come to their own conclusion.  This is a heavy subject and would need some time to go all the way back in time and study what happened from the first pagan celebrations and what they meant, as well as the first Christian celebrations and what they meant.  There is no argument on some of the pagan ideas shifting over to Christian ideas in the early church, but one should know the background and historic relevance between the two groups, and the people involved who made decisions, and the similarities of pagan and Christian groups mainly differing in what and who they worshipped or celebrated.

There are too many links to offer, but I've listed 2.  There are many neutral links, Christian links, as well as athiest links, and other non-religious links.  I only say this as to not be accused of being bias toward only the Christian links.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_and_Paganism


http://www.sacred-texts.com/cla/pcc/pcc03.htm

[hicaniplay]

I have a link too. Someone tell me how true all this is? I know some of it is, but I haven't researched it all.
'Cause it kinda sicked me out when I first found it:

http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/Christmas_TheRealStory.htm

[jcribb16]

I have a link too. Someone tell me how true all this is? I know some of it is, but I haven't researched it all.
'Cause it kinda sicked me out when I first found it:

http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/Christmas_TheRealStory.htm

This link does seem to provide more "gory" detail for both the pagan side and the Christian side, in what they did to people, including acting above the law (or rather they called it "lawlessness.")  The main thing, if you are really wanting to figure this out, is to study both sides of the groups involved.  In my previous post, I said I felt people should study and make their own decisions whether or not to celebrate our holidays. 

Many of our holidays seem to be derived from pagan origins, but there again, according to today's celebrations and what they now stand for, most holidays include families/friends coming together for special meals, quality time together, honoring certain people (such as birthdays, Mother's Day, Father's Day), celebrating: Jesus's birth (Christmas; although there are people who don't,) Thanksgiving (began by Pilgrims and Native Americans,) July 4th (Independence Day for America,) Valentine's Day, and others.  They are not just holidays or special days, they include traditions that make these days special.  However, it is the individual's and the families' decisions to acknowledge and participate or not.