Which bible do you Read?

[Getinonthis]

This is the very reason why I recommend that you read the bible, You're still at the introduction, though I must say I admire your perception it is without truth, ill explain.
Leviticus, numbers and Deuteronomy are books that contains laws and instructions that are specifically to the Jews, the descendants of Abraham, a man that God had found faithful and chose to bless him and his descendants. Now god gave them his laws while Moses gave them others that he felt would be a guideline for them (Jews.) I could go in dept into that but since you're not a Jew (don't assume) Acts 15:19-20 shares that everyone else is exempted from these requirements. As no one is bound under those laws anymore but under Grace. (Romans 6:14)
The bible is tailored in a way in which it's readers are led to start from the New Testament then to the Old Testament why because that's the time we're in know the times then go back to the history and you'll gain a wider understanding. (Yes I know it sounds weird, but that's why it's not for reading but studying, the more one reads the bible the more your understanding of it increases.) that's why I recommended the Book of John and the Scofield Notes for Interpretation

But the more I studied the bible and the more I read it, the more I understood how goofy and inconsistant it was.  Admittedly the OT was pretty wordy and I got bored of it, so I skipped to Matt, Mark, Luke, and John and afterwards I was just left with "...that's it?" in my mind. I don't understand why anyone would want to have a relationship with a god who willingly kills people over his childish jealousy and amusement. Even if he were real, I would never bow or accept a murderous deity that allows for such atrocities stated in the bible. I don't really know about you, but I know I have a better moral sense than a god who slaughters 40 kids just because they made fun of some bald dude who he was friends with. Seriously, wth?

believe it or not it's a prophetic book and nearly all religions are developed from it, business men gain ideals and ideas from it.

Business men get ideals and ideas from truckloads of other things both good and bad. I would recommend someone to take business classes or get internships with reputable companies rather than just read an ancient book. As a joke, let me requote Deuteronomy 22:28-29-
If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father.  Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.

What a steal...I mean deal!

Like I said before, the Bible is no ordinary book that you just read and understand and be able pass judgment on. It's not the largest selling book ever written for nothing. Scientist wouldn't be using it to get a paycheck if it was that simple a book. They wouldn't be able to deceive you with their theories?

You mean like the theory of gravity? Or medicine? or culture? Because if you're referring to evolution being deceiving, you might as well swear off every other scientific theory too. Evolution is the fundamental principle of biology and it has been proven countless times-- to say otherwise is showing a severe lack of basic education. We use evolutionary principles when we develop medicines.  You can actually see micro-evolution happen with your own eyes and macro-evolution can be somewhat demonstrated in the same fashion.  The fossil record has an over-abundance of proof as well. The bible is just so wrong about everything in that fashion because it was written by primitive people that thought the world looked like this-
http://christthetruth.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/hebrew-cosmology.jpg

In this world, there are more historians who think the holocaust didn't happen than there are scientists who think the bible is an accurate depiction of the scientific world.

You of all people should understand this since you enjoy your freewill so much. God gives us a simple choice choose him or Don't? He won't choose for you. Now you should find out "what influences your decision" and not blame God for the privilege of choice you were given.

For the third time now you've hovered right over the question. With that said, how can I have freewill if this god of yours already knows what my choice will be because he's all-knowing and all-powerful? Since he created everything and lives in the past, present, and future, he has already chosen for me because he knows everything before it happens. The privilege of choice you mentioned is a mere illusion unless you can explain to me how christians aren't inherently fatalists due to your gods power.

My friend as I've pointed out you've never actually read the bible, unless you followed the format I gave. From New Testament to Old Testament. any other way and the results will be flawed, confusion and boredom etc.

What dumb writer would make their audience read a story at the climax and not the beginning? Oh...wait...I forgot about George Lucas! lol anyway this is just a mere opinion and if it were supposed to be read that way, the ancients should have made their god and their people apologize for all the terrible horrifying things in the rising actions (OT).

Now you're just going in circles, you have a very limited understanding of the bible and that's why your responses towards it is in this manner, believe it or not the Bible speaks of things past, present and future, and that's why you'll have to read it from the present, which is actually the part that's for you.
Now in an earlier statement you said you refuse to acknowledge a God that you can't understand his reason, well that's fine your choice.

But there are others such as myself who realize and know that in this world there is the influence and evidence of God because His Holy Spirit is here, as for HELL there is no presence of God because His Spirit is not there, so in all good knowledge everyone get their hearts desire.
 Hell or Heaven your Choice and that's the simple truth to it.
 

[angelheartsong]

I really Don't Read the Bible... Not because I dont Believe in God or his word... Because i do.. But because all of them books are so very Confusing to me.   I just live my life as I taught myself. & though I dont read the Bible Nor do I go to church I am Gods Daughter, & i speak to him on my terms not in some building made by man.

[Falconer02]

Now you're just going in circles, you have a very limited understanding of the bible and that's why your responses towards it is in this manner, believe it or not the Bible speaks of things past, present and future, and that's why you'll have to read it from the present, which is actually the part that's for you.

If I don't understand the bible and you do, then why can't you answer any of my questions? How do you explain the many inconsistencies throughout the bible? How do you justify the slaughter of children by a god for no good reason? How do you justify any of the horrific displays of this deity throughout the bible and then believe that he loves man? How do you explain free will when a god created everything and knows all? What about the ties between Jesus and many other heroic fictional figures before Roman times? I don't get how one says they know more and then not answer anything. All I'm seeing is-

Me: "Why is this in here?"
You: "Oh you just don't understand it like I do."
Me: "Explain"
You: "Just go read the whole thing again!"

Now in an earlier statement you said you refuse to acknowledge a God that you can't understand his reason, well that's fine your choice.
Hell or Heaven your Choice and that's the simple truth to it.

I refuse to submit to any deity unless there's undeniable proof of it's existence. If this Abrahamic god exists, that means that I'm predestined to choose not to accept him because of him . That is completely unfair and malevolent. So if you believe in this god, how can you call it my choice when it was originally his idea for me to think this way?

[jcribb16]

Now you're just going in circles, you have a very limited understanding of the bible and that's why your responses towards it is in this manner, believe it or not the Bible speaks of things past, present and future, and that's why you'll have to read it from the present, which is actually the part that's for you.

If I don't understand the bible and you do, then why can't you answer any of my questions? How do you explain the many inconsistencies throughout the bible? How do you justify the slaughter of children by a god for no good reason? How do you justify any of the horrific displays of this deity throughout the bible and then believe that he loves man? How do you explain free will when a god created everything and knows all? What about the ties between Jesus and many other heroic fictional figures before Roman times? I don't get how one says they know more and then not answer anything.

Now in an earlier statement you said you refuse to acknowledge a God that you can't understand his reason, well that's fine your choice.
Hell or Heaven your Choice and that's the simple truth to it.

I refuse to submit to any deity unless there's undeniable proof of it's existence. If this Abrahamic god exists, that means that I'm predestined to choose not to accept him because of him . That is completely unfair and malevolent. So if you believe in this god, how can you call it my choice when it was originally his idea for me to think this way?

My question is that if you are against free will (personal choice) when it comes to God/no god, wouldn't you have a problem with personal choice in every area of choices in your life?  In other words, if we are a Christian, we are only making robot choices, but if someone is a non-christian, then they have complete free choice in all?  I realize we have gone in circles before over this, but there is no undeniable proof all the way around for the "no god" scientific point of view.  You have faith in the scientific view just as others have faith in God.

[Falconer02]

My question is that if you are against free will (personal choice) when it comes to God/no god, wouldn't you have a problem with personal choice in every area of choices in your life?  In other words, if we are a Christian, we are only making robot choices, but if someone is a non-christian, then they have complete free choice in all?

I believe we all have free will since defined gods do not exist. I have no problem with people having personal choices in every aspect of life unless those choices bluntly and negatively effect others. The major reason I bring it up is because it's such an obvious contradiction that the majority of christians don't think about (sometimes willingly).

but there is no undeniable proof all the way around for the "no god" scientific point of view.  You have faith in the scientific view just as others have faith in God.

Real science has nothing to do with any god and that's why scientists tend to steer clear of the idea. That is unless the religious are shoving it into science like their views are reality (creationism, ID, etc.) and that's when actual science has to defend itself. Unless there's natural proof of a gods existence, nothing can be said because there's no basis to go off of. That's what science is all about-- forming a basis, finding proof for it, and then sharpening that idea to better understand reality.

I don't have faith in science-- science or nature does not care about how I feel. I have a belief in science because I can actually interact with it, see it progress, and it's obvious that those interactable elements are real.

Understand that this does not mean I am completely absent of faith, it's just not the same brand of faith the religious have.

[jcribb16]

Quote from Falconer:
Real science has nothing to do with any god and that's why scientists tend to steer clear of the idea. That is unless the religious are shoving it into science like their views are reality (creationism, ID, etc.) and that's when actual science has to defend itself. Unless there's natural proof of a gods existence, nothing can be said because there's no basis to go off of. That's what science is all about-- forming a basis, finding proof for it, and then sharpening that idea to better understand reality.

I don't have faith in science-- science or nature does not care about how I feel. I have a belief in science because I can actually interact with it, see it progress, and it's obvious that those interactable elements are real.

Understand that this does not mean I am completely absent of faith, it's just not the same brand of faith the religious have.

Thank you very much for responding to this.  I totally agree with your statement about science with the basis, proof, reality.  And I agree about having belief in science because of interaction with it.  It's after this, that the argument sets in with people, about how the earth and mankind were created, either by the big blast and/or mutation, or by an intelligent creator, such as God.  That's where I believe that there had to be someone of higher intelligence than us that could create such perfection with the world, waters, land, and then the people, with their systems/organs/etc. working together with amazing proficiency.  I believe in the science of the nature that has continued to thrive and grow but I have faith in God, that He is the one behind the creation of all of it.  I have a very difficult time even trying to accept that a blast or mutation could just happen and then from that, it all knows how to continue and perfect itself without some kind of guidance.  There is too much perfection and design in this that points, for me, to my belief and trust in God.  And yet, because I cannot actually see and touch God, I choose to have faith in Him, by reading and researching His Word, studying history back in Biblical times, comparing that information with the Bible and other learned scholars in this subject.

Having said all of that, I really would like to hear your side of this and how and why you believe as you do about this subject.

[EbonySapphire]

 
I read the New International Version. King James is not too understanding too me, but I heard if I just add my name where thow and other wording I will b more able to understand.

[Falconer02]

It's after this, that the argument sets in with people, about how the earth and mankind were created, either by the big blast and/or mutation, or by an intelligent creator, such as God.  That's where I believe that there had to be someone of higher intelligence than us that could create such perfection with the world, waters, land, and then the people, with their systems/organs/etc. working together with amazing proficiency.

I agree that there could be a higher form of life out there that may have set the gears turning, but since we're so confined by space-time that it's very difficult to come to any conclusions-- especially since we have all of this knowledge of the universe and nothing points to any proof of any other beings. And the world is a pretty nice place in the known universe, but it is furthest from perfect. 70% salt water? Less than 10% of fresh water being uncontaminated? Natural desertification? Disasters? Massive genetic deficiencies overwhelming populations? Organs painfully breaking down and stopping at random ages? Constant evolving sicknesses plaguing every living thing here and there? I may be being pessimistic, but it has always been like this throughout history so it's furthest from perfection. Heck, even looking at it optimistically it's barely even adequate.

If an all-powerful god or gods had made us, this is the best they could do? They really didn't put too much thought into this part of the galaxy when you add omnipotent powers into their stature. Nature is a fierce and unfair mistress! Any loving god or gods worth worshipping could do so much better. I know I would if I really cared about something. It's needless technical cruelties that really display only 2 options- 1.) if there are deities, they're malevolent or 2.) there are no gods watching over mankind.

And yet, because I cannot actually see and touch God, I choose to have faith in Him, by reading and researching His Word, studying history back in Biblical times, comparing that information with the Bible and other learned scholars in this subject.

What's up with Elisha having god kill 42 kids (or teens) with bears just because a few made fun of his baldness? Seriously, I'd like to know. That really disturbs me since so many people have such faith in this book. I looked around at christian answers online and they're such stretches (this word actually means this! or this! or this! and this! Therefore we can conclude something completely different) on what it actually says that it makes me go  

[walksalone11]

I really Don't Read the Bible... Not because I dont Believe in God or his word... Because i do.. But because all of them books are so very Confusing to me.   I just live my life as I taught myself. & though I dont read the Bible Nor do I go to church I am Gods Daughter, & i speak to him on my terms not in some building made by man.

If, you do not read the bible nor study your professed belief system, how could you possibly know, what "his" word is?

[Getinonthis]

I really Don't Read the Bible... Not because I dont Believe in God or his word... Because i do.. But because all of them books are so very Confusing to me.   I just live my life as I taught myself. & though I dont read the Bible Nor do I go to church I am Gods Daughter, & i speak to him on my terms not in some building made by man.

If, you do not read the bible nor study your professed belief system, how could you possibly know, what "his" word is?

That's simply because CONSCIENCE is one of the ways in which God reveals himself to man.
Romans 2:14-15
For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)

[walksalone11]

I really Don't Read the Bible... Not because I dont Believe in God or his word... Because i do.. But because all of them books are so very Confusing to me.   I just live my life as I taught myself. & though I dont read the Bible Nor do I go to church I am Gods Daughter, & i speak to him on my terms not in some building made by man.

If, you do not read the bible nor study your professed belief system, how could you possibly know, what "his" word is?

That's simply because CONSCIENCE is one of the ways in which God reveals himself to man.
Romans 2:14-15
For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)

OHHHHH.....I get it. You're GOD and know what she is thinking. Ok,, got it. Thanks Big Guy.

Please try to appreciate the fact that my above made comment is in jest, and what I really interpret you to say is that Falc, really really needs to read the bible in order to understand it, however, Angel...is exempt because she "has a conscience". I think that were I Falc. I would find this defamation of my intelligence as very offensive.

Let me point out that while I am not Christian, I am not Atheist/Agnostic either, however, Falc is making a much more rational arguement than yourself. There are Christians on this board who have a great deal of rational about them and can and often do speak intelligently(in my opinion) on these types of discussion, I must say, so far, I can not include you in this group, in my personal opinion.

[jcribb16]

Falconer,

You definitely raise good questions.  To be genuinely honest,  I can't explain technical answers to some of these questions.  I do know, with regards to how people, like Elisha, were treated, that the Old Testament was under the Old Law.  Once sin entered the world, it would follow throughout the generations - even today.  That is the human nature, and from the beginning, we have to be taught what is right or wrong.  God, in the Old Testament, said He was a jealous God - He expected total submissiveness to Him in all areas of life.  With sin, however, things happened.  When he detroyed the earth with flooding, He only chose Noah (because of the total loyalty and submissiveness he and his family had for God) and his family to build the ark, witness and warn the people what was to come, collect the animals, etc.  Yes, I agree, that that in itself sounds strange: Noah building this big boat looking thing, and talking about this flooding thing coming (especially since there were mists of the ground to keep plants and all watered) and no one even knew what "rain" was.  But, Noah did as he was told because he trusted God at His Word.

Even after that, there was still wickedness and sin that started (thru generations.)  I wonder, myself, why would God destroy the earth except for this one family and start over again, knowing that sin is inherent?  I believe that a couple of things have a lot of influence over that, including free choice, parents' disciplinarian measures, and the "will" of the children/adults.  As the population grew, sin continued to reign - of course God would deal with punishment - that was how things were done in the O.T.  The battles that were fought, whole nations being slain (including their wives and children) because God told His Chosen people that He was giving inheritance of the lands to them (ex: the 12 tribes of Israel.) is a big example of that. God hardened the Pharoah's heart so he would not let God's people go (punishment: the plagues.)  A big question is why did He harden the Pharoah's heart?   Even in the wilderness, with Moses guiding the people to the Promised Land," Moses disobeyed God once and as punishment was not allowed to enter the new land.  That was extreme.  Also, when God had the people roam the wilderness for another generation so that all others from the older generation had to die before God would let them continue on  (punishment for disobeying.)  I don't know those answers.

But I do know that when the Messiah was born, He would become the sacrifice for sinners: God hated sin so much He couldn't even look on His own Son when Jesus "took" all sin upon Him on the cross.  After the death of Jesus, and the resurrection of Him, the Law changed from the Old Law to the New Law.  All of those things that happened in the past were not done like that anymore.  Jesus was now the mediator between us and God.  You still pay for the penalty of sin, but the goal now was to bring others to know Jesus.  There were now churches for Christians to be able to come together and worship God freely, and also for non-christians go visit or attend as well.  It became free choice for each individual to now accept Him or not accept Him.

Then we have Revelations (what is to come.)  God will make a new heaven and a new earth for all who have accepted Him.  But not before certain events are to happen, such as increased wars, major weather changes and calamities, persecution of Christians, etc.  Once He comes to take the Christians with Him (the dead and the living), and all prophetic events happened up to that point, the devil will then have his 1,000 year reign.  He is going to get whoever he can to follow him.  From what I've learned, there will now be new generations of people who will be witnessed to and have the choice to accept Jesus or not.  However, it will be much harder and complicated for the  witnesses since believers were taken.  Those who decide now to accept Jesus will be persecuted even more.  If people do not agree to take the sign of the devil on them, then you won't have free entry to jobs, money, stores, food, etc.  That will be a horrific time.  After the 1,000 years are up, the devil and his followers will be sent to the place of punishment forever while Christians will be forever with God.  (Everyone will first have to give account for their actions and disobedience at the great Judgment.)

All of that said, I am a New Testament believer.  I believe in God's total Word, but since we do not live in the Old Testament times, and are now in the New Law, I know that I have to accept or deny Jesus; I accept Him (New Law.)  There are people who choose not to believe as I do.  That's their decision.  I present what I feel and know and it's up to them.  There are people who choose a different religion - in many of these, it's still the message of salvation.  No one religion is the absolute religion - it's whether or not we accept Jesus as Savior.  What I have a problem with, is a religion that comes in and wants to take over the rules and law of the country, and includes punishments and dictations that this is the only way - that is a violation of our Constitution where we have freedom of religion; I don't agree with the stampede of another that strips women and children of their basic rights.

Now, I'm really sorry I have written so much.  It started and I couldn't seem to stop.  There are so many things to consider when trying to answer a lot of these intelligent and normal questions.  The main thing, for me, is that I cannot see the bigger picture of what God sees.  Only He knows what He's doing, why He's done what He did, and why He will do things.  His mind is higher than mine.  Also, "personal will/choice" is a big barrier to deal with - but I believe I will understand even that one day.  I also know, after studying His Word, studying Biblical history, and the histories of the countries and people from the past, that so much agrees with each other in their events and facts, and in that, I totally believe in God's Word.

Thanks for discussing this with me!

[Falconer02]

Rather than quote the entire post, I'll just go through what you said in order-

1.) He originally creates and allows for sin. He blames Adam and Eve for it even though they had no knowledge of it (pointless baiting tactic).
2.) He's very jealous.
3.) He wiped out 99.999999999% of mankind (women, children, babies...because babies are wicked!) on earth in a massive flood only leaving incest between a few couples (You need about 2500 pairs of a specific species to avoid bad genetics).
4.) He allows for genocidal "manifest destinies" to conquer people, slay them, and take their lands
5.) He allows for random plagues just to prove his point
6.) He punishes certain generations of people to die out

You have no problem with submitting to this god after browsing his resume? Even if this god did exist, I do not understand how any person with an ounce of morality would do this. "I don't know" is not an acceptable answer here. If one believes the stories, they should have an explanation as to why they follow a god that has done these atrocious disgusting things. Even with Jesus in the picture (Old Law to New Law), it makes no real difference since these events are still in the timeline. There's no way of getting around them. Just saying they have faith in this god is an extremely grotesque cult-like philosophy because all one is doing is avoiding justification of the list above and accepting these unimaginable evils that he willingly did. It's just sickening.

Imagine you see a man in disguise who just agonizingly murdered 1000 innocent people (including young children and babies). He then tells you they deserved it and he promises he'll give you eternal happiness in the future if you don't question his motives and praise him for his promise. Would you accept the offer?

 God will make a new heaven and a new earth for all who have accepted Him.  But not before certain events are to happen, such as increased wars, major weather changes and calamities, persecution of Christians, etc.  Once He comes to take the Christians with Him (the dead and the living), and all prophetic events happened up to that point, the devil will then have his 1,000 year reign.  He is going to get whoever he can to follow him.  From what I've learned, there will now be new generations of people who will be witnessed to and have the choice to accept Jesus or not.  However, it will be much harder and complicated for the  witnesses since believers were taken.  Those who decide now to accept Jesus will be persecuted even more.  If people do not agree to take the sign of the devil on them, then you won't have free entry to jobs, money, stores, food, etc.  That will be a horrific time.  After the 1,000 years are up, the devil and his followers will be sent to the place of punishment forever while Christians will be forever with God.

Fatalism in a nutshell. I believe in free will. I don't know what the future will bring. If christians believe this quote, they obviously don't since they already know what's going to happen.

Increased Wars = War is nothing new. China had some of the bloodiest wars ever recorded and they happened hundreds and thousands of years ago and lasted decades. As populations grow and without change, it's almost inevitable. http://militaryhistory.about.com/od/battleswars/u/WarsandBattles.htm

Major weather changes = Climate shifts are completely natural and happen every few thousand years. If I recall, we've had 2 or 3 mini-ice ages in the last 250 years alone. We've always had devastating earthquakes. You only think there's more because technology allows you to hear of them. There aren't more. There just are more statistics to show off. If you live near the atlantic, you're going to have storm problems. If you live near the pacific, you're going to have quake problems. Anywhere in the middle? A little bit of both.

Persecuation of Christians =
I don't believe there will be persecution in the future with religion. I see it simply phasing out due to the global spreading of education. Advanced societies usually have less religion and there really wasn't any persecution involved (aside from smaller religions being bullied by bigger ones). People just grew out of it.

but I believe I will understand even that one day.  I also know, after studying His Word, studying Biblical history, and the histories of the countries and people from the past, that so much agrees with each other in their events and facts

No, not really. Considering they can't even piece together the technical elements of the Jesus character (which ends up spawning separate religious sects over trivial things), the events and facts rarely match up with reality. You brought up Noah's Ark. That never happened because there is not one gap in any other civilizations early history.

[gramev64]

I like to read the Living Bible, as it explains God's words very clearly.  I feel bad for the people who don't believe.

[acurtsinger2]

THE BIBLE WAS TRANSLATED BY A MAN FOR A MAN(KJV)  SO WE HAVE TO CONSIDER THAT SOME OF THE COULD HAVE BEEN CHANGED TO MEET ONES OWN AGENDA.  SO THE BEST THING TO DO IS, READ IT AND DECIDE FOR YOURSELF THE VALIDITY OF THE PASSAGES THAT YOU READ.  MY VEIW OF IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN THE SAME...IT SOOOTHES THE SOUL TO READ IT AND THINK ABOUT THE ISSUES THAT WE FACE TODAY(