Planned Parenthood

[shernajwine]

black women are 5 times more likely than white women to have an abortion

So?  Who cares what color the woman is.  If she's an unfit parent in any way, let her do the world (and the unborn child) a favor.  You "pro-lifers" really turn a blind eye to the horrible, horrible conditions a lot of these aborted fetuses would have ended up in.

I think that color matters when Planned Parenthood was formed from an organization that's purpose was to eliminate black people. I think color matters when a person working for planned parenthood gets "excited" taking a donation targeted for black people and agreed that "we don't need anymore black people".

Also who ever said that every woman getting an abortion is an unfit parent?? I know women who have had abortions and have other children and they are extremely loving and caring mothers. Also it seems as though you "pro-choicers" are the ones turning a blind eye to the reality of what abortion does to the mental and even physical health of women. And turning a blind eye to the racism that fuels Planned Parenthood who is responsible for the 28% of the black population being wiped out!

After all, from my entire post pointing out WHY more black women are getting abortions, your comeback is to assert that all women having an abortion are unfit parents so who cares the color of their skin. Your indifference to the injustice of it, is highly disturbing.

[Falconer02]

Also who ever said that every woman getting an abortion is an unfit parent?? I know women who have had abortions and have other children and they are extremely loving and caring mothers. Also it seems as though you "pro-choicers" are the ones turning a blind eye to the reality of what abortion does to the mental and even physical health of women. And turning a blind eye to the racism that fuels Planned Parenthood who is responsible for the 28% of the black population being wiped out!

Apparently 80% of abortions are from unmarried women, but yes I agree with Sherna on the emotional impact on a woman. I've known someone who had 1 done and I read a letter from her on how awful it is. It was just sad as hell. But let's jump into an aerial viewpoint for a minute and define what we would have to do if we got rid of the system just with Sherna's statistics-

We have 14,000,000 black babies that have been aborted. Let's look on the bright side and say if they were not aborted, they'd be put up for adoption.
The estimated cost of raising a child in a decent neighborhood is $15,000 per year. That's $270,000 each till they're 18.
In total, that is 3.78 trillion dollars total to make sure these kids get a semi-decent life till they're 18.
There are 307,000,000 people in the US. Each person would have to chip in an extra $12,300 to make sure these kids grow up decently when it comes to just material-care.

Keep in mind this is just with african americans, so someone find the statistics with all races in the last 18 years and let's do the math again. I'm sure the price will be amplified to a much more staggering number. Who wants to skyrocket taxes to that level? Especially in this failing economy right now. I know it's beyond cold to say, but who can afford that these days? May I remind you all why you're probably on FC in the first place.

Secondly, I do not see nearly enough pro-life extremists adopting these children, so I feel there is a great naive-hipocrisy in the movement. If you're going to support something so adamantly, put your money where your mouth is. Out of all the people I know in my life, I know 2 couples who have adopted 1 kid each. And one of the couples (my aunt and uncle) is pro-choice.

[shernajwine]

We have 14,000,000 black babies that have been aborted. Let's look on the bright side and say if they were not aborted, they'd be put up for adoption.

over 80% of woman regret having the abortion and would therefore not have put the baby up for adoption. The number one reason women get an abortion is not because they absolutely DON'T WANT it, it's because of social pressure and fear. They do it because they feel they don't have a choice.

[walksalone11]

Believing in eugenics is "fine", meaning they are not breaking any laws, and no one is being forced into it.

No one is being forced. Forced sterilization was made illegal and thus the peddling of abortion to minorities under the guise of civil rights was born.

It's the same way with being anti-gay, or racist, or any number of negative discriminatory beliefs, in that they are fine to believe what they want, so long as they aren't doing anything illegal.

I disagree with that absolutely 100%.

Is bullying someone because of their color, or race, or sexuality fine? Is protesting the funeral of military servicemen with signs saying Semper Fi Fags fine? Discrimination is NEVER fine whether it is legal or not. And the difference between those things and the purpose of Planned Parenthoods abortions is that the name of the game was changed and the discrimination was MADE legal! 

Planned Parent-hood is about birth control; it was born out of a eugenic movement that recommended sterilization and segregation as its primary birth control tools. And immediately after sterilization and segregation legally failed, abortion appeared on the scene, and minorities were targeted for abortion just as heavily as they were targeted before for sterilization and segregation. The sad truth: abortion became a far more effective and lucrative eugenic tactic than anything that came before it.
http://bloodmoneyfilm.com/blog/planned-parent-hood-today

If anyone at Planned Parenthood believes in eugenics, so what?

Again, WHAT?! Let me get this straight.....So what if the people working at the organization counseling you and performing your abortion, agree with it's racist founder that you and your baby should be wiped off the face of the planet? So what if the person giving you advice thinks your genetic trash? So what if the person killing your baby is HAPPY that the world is rid of one less useless human being? REALLY? So What???

As long as I don't see any proof that they are actively practicing it, it's "fine".

I gave evidence that they are still racist and the act of aborting children IS them actively practicing their eugenics!
 
This indifference to racism and hate mongering is WHY racism and hate mongering still exists. Maybe you should read walks thread about the abuse being suffered by the Indigenous people. Why don't you go on HIS thread and tell him it's FINE as long as it's LEGAL. 

 

http://againsttheirwill.journalnow.com/

[shernajwine]

Ramirez had a choice to make, and it was a wrenching decision for an an 18-year-old who had just had her first child. Her options? Sign a form from the Eugenics Board "consenting" to be sterilized, or have welfare payments for her mother and six brothers and sisters cut off.
http://againsttheirwill.journalnow.com/

Sounds much like the type of "choice" offered to pregnant women where abortion is concerned. They fear both options and choose the one they are pressured into. It really makes me see red walks....it makes me want to scream. 

[jcribb16]

We have 14,000,000 black babies that have been aborted. Let's look on the bright side and say if they were not aborted, they'd be put up for adoption.

over 80% of woman regret having the abortion and would therefore not have put the baby up for adoption. The number one reason women get an abortion is not because they absolutely DON'T WANT it, it's because of social pressure and fear. They do it because they feel they don't have a choice.

Sherene, I agree with you here.  Social pressure and fear include many levels for these women:

As legalized abortion has become an everyday part of American life, a different side to it has emerged. Where women once were aborting because they 'did not want a child', the reasons being given now are becoming very different. Abortion has turned into something that women are being coerced into from boyfriends/husbands unwilling to be fathers, out of fear of the financial pressure, out of panic from losing their jobs, out of panic from having to quit school, or become homeless, or out of fear of their parents kicking them out into the street.

Abortion for these reasons can lead to Post Abortion Stress Syndrome. P.A.S.S is a type of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder which develops when a woman is unable to work through her emotional responses resulting from the trauma of an abortion. P.A.S.S. can have many serious side effects, ranging from depression to eating disorders, to as severe as suicide. There are women who abort and do so completely of their own free will. These women have no regrets, no remorse, and are happy they had this choice available. But a growing number of women are speaking up about how abortion affected them adversely.

Many women report that they were directly threatened by the father of the baby, insisting that they abort. Underage women report that their parents 'made' them have an abortion, telling them "Abort or leave the house". To a young woman still in high school, staying pregnant and becoming homeless is very scary and overwhelming. These young women abort, because they feel they have no other choice.

http://afterabortion.com/social.html

[DarkMistress]

Here is what I think... I did read some of the posts, but not all so I might repeat what has been said already LOL.

First off my personal opinion on abortion... I would never get one, for me personally I do not believe in it. I feel from the moment of conception the fetus IS A BABY, a human being, WITH A SOUL.

Now that being said... I also think it IS the woman's choice to do with her body what she deems necessary. I do not think the government has the right to take THAT right away from a woman. I also know from when I wrote a paper on this in college, and after researching things on the subject... if anyone out there knows about the history of abortion... then you know the very gruesome facts. Women were having abortions, WAY before they became legal. Women were doing them at home with coat hangers, or going to "doctors" in "under ground labs" to get it done. In a huge % of these cases, the women did not survive, or in worse cases it made them ill and disabled them physically. Not to mention the WAY the baby was removed... or as I believe KILLED, was hugely barbaric. So my thought is even if I do not personally like the thought of it being legal... it IS better than how it was when it was illegal. Because no matter what women will find a way if they want to abort, regardless if it is legal or not. Just like those who smoke cigs, if one day they made cigarettes illegal, it would not suddenly stop everyone from smoking, people would still find a way.

Ok and on the other hand... I honestly think there should be more strict rules regarding actually getting abortions. For like those underage, or etc.... I hate when I hear of the shows on TV that do stories on this subject, and show some stupid *bleep* female who is basically using an abortion as "birth control". This thought sickens me... "oh I can have all the unprotected sex I want, if I get pregnant I can just get an abortion..." I really wish sometimes I could just beat the living crap out of these women. Hell my ideal thought would be that if a woman was like this, then if she came in for a second abortion put her under the knife and tie her friggen tubes, then she wouldn't have to worry about getting pregnant ever again. AND if she "grew up" and became responsible, and stopped this way of thinking THEN she could always have her tubes "untied". A huge part of me thinks that abortions really should only be used in cases of rape, incest, or medical emergencies.

I actually just watched a show on HBO a few days ago. It was about this abortion clinic that was opened in 1991 on the corner of this street, and then in 1999 a family planning center was opened right across from the clinic on the other corner. It was interesting to see both sides of the issue, without only one side being propped up. Just from this show, people can learn a lot. In it they showed or told you how the babies are aborted... and I have to say it brought tears to my eyes. The thought of the fetus being TORN apart piece by piece and pulled out of the woman... yes I know you might not want to hear it, but it is true. It is graphic, and gruesome, honestly almost enough that I had a moment of thinking abortions SHOULD be illegal. But that was only for a moment... until I thought about the women out there who have been raped and made pregnant, or who have a serious illness and if they go through with the pregnancy it could kill them and the baby anyway. I want to also add that in this show they also showed something else that is just as disturbing as the thought of how the babies are killed... and that is the people who work for the planned parenthood, or family planning centers. The anti abortionist... those signs they hold up and walk around with. The same signs that ANY child can see while walking home, or to school, or sitting in the back seat of a car... I never understood HOW these people can say how they are for the "families", and all about protecting children... yet just HOW much damage do those damn signs do to CHILDREN? How the about extremist bombing clinics, or kill doctors over this subject... how they can take another humans life, yet they will stand there and rant about how these doctors take the lives of human beings by giving abortions... that never made sense to me as well.

So that all being said... where do I stand personally? I am against abortions except in the above mentioned cases of rape, incest, or medical emergencies. BUT beyond how I feel personally I still think it is the woman's RIGHT do to with her body as she deems necessary, and the government has NO right to dictate what she can or can not do with it.

[queenofnines]

Also who ever said that every woman getting an abortion is an unfit parent??

I didn't, lol.  I said *if* she's an unfit parent, she's doing that child and the world a favor.  But let's face it, the reason why ANY woman has an abortion is to avoid a negative outcome.  Whether it's an emotional one from being raped by her father to a financial one because she's only 16, these are all valid reasons to not unnecessarily add to the world's population.  It's a fact that the world would be a much better place if there were no unwanted children.  You are in affect, working against this goal and encouraging the negative outcomes spoken of before by being against abortion.

Once again I go back to why Christians even care about abortions.  Don't aborted fetuses automatically go to heaven??  Why risk hellfire by bringing them into the world?  Seems to me that atheists are the ones who should be pro life since, ya know, this is the only one we all get.  Oh wait, I forgot that one tiny detail of us not having souls, so the decision of whether to abort a fetus or not is akin to deciding whether to finish baking a cake or not.  It is not yet a cake when all you've done is pour the baking mix into the bowl, now is it?  Sure, it has the potential to become a cake, but what if said cake causes more harm than good?  What if someone chokes on it and dies?  The cake wasn't even planned or really wanted, so what are we doing wasting these resources in this economy??

LOL    I crack myself up.

your comeback is to assert that all women having an abortion are unfit parents so who cares the color of their skin. Your indifference to the injustice of it, is highly disturbing.

Excuse me for thinking that the main issue was killing babies, not killing blacks?

[jcribb16]

Quote from queenofnines:
Seems to me that atheists are the ones who should be pro life since, ya know, this is the only one we all get.  Oh wait, I forgot that one tiny detail of us not having souls, so the decision of whether to abort a fetus or not is akin to deciding whether to finish baking a cake or not.


Lol, you crack me up, too!!  Atheists and Christians alike all have souls!  I know you were just being witty, but I couldn't help but to respond to that part of your sentence!  Anyone who says you don't have one needs to come see me - I've got your back on that one! 

[shernajwine]

so the decision of whether to abort a fetus or not is akin to deciding whether to finish baking a cake or not

I don't think the decision to abort a baby is anything like deciding whether to finish baking a cake. And I'm sure the millions of women who have had abortions would probably agree. I think it's very insensitive to their situation to suggest such a thing. A woman in the grips of fear and desperation about whether to have a baby or kill it before it's born is traumatic and life changing. Regardless of which road they take. 

Don't aborted fetuses automatically go to heaven??

By this logic anyone can justify killing anyone. "Hey they believe in God, so what if we killed them for their wallet, they will go to heaven. We did them a favor." 

Excuse me for thinking that the main issue was killing babies, not killing blacks?

If you thought that it's because you didn't read my post.

[mawhite63]

When I first was on my own and working to support myself, I couldn't afford to take time off from work to go to a doctor's office for my annual checkup. There was a PP clinic close to my office that had extended evening and weekend hours, so I went there for my gyn appointment. I'll never forget how fantastic they were. I was also feeling very run down but I attributed that to how hard I was working. They gave me a full physical and diagnosed me with PCOS. Because I was in an area near hospitals that did research, they even directed me to a clinical trial to help women with PCOS avoid infertility, and they did all my follow up blood work for two years after that.

I'll never forget going into a clinic for treatment so that one day I could have a baby, and having fanatics across the street screaming at me that I was a baby murderer.

I support PP. They help poor and working class women have quality health care.

[queenofnines]

I think it's very insensitive to their situation to suggest such a thing. A woman in the grips of fear and desperation about whether to have a baby or kill it before it's born is traumatic and life changing. Regardless of which road they take. 

What's with the head shaking and disgusted undertone?  What I meant was, its pretty interesting what pro lifers define as a "person".  Scratching your nose isn't murdering anything in your eyes, even though the cells there, too, are a "potential person".  There's not a campaign out to try to get guys to stop masturbating, even though the millions of sperm they throw away on a regular basis contain 1/2 the requirements to make a person.  No one accuses god of being pro abortion despite the countless miscarriages he causes...oh, and the fact that up to 2/3 of fertilized eggs never properly attach to the uterine wall in the first place.

By this logic anyone can justify killing anyone. "Hey they believe in God, so what if we killed them for their wallet, they will go to heaven. We did them a favor." 

Hmm, I think you are diverting from the issue.  Do aborted fetuses go to heaven or not?  If so, I really don't get the crusade to "save" them.  Abortions are NOT the same as killing adults; let's get that perfectly clear.

[jordandog]

Sherna,
As far as Sanger and the eugenics? I am NOT and was NOT arguing that point, but should have said that in my initial post. It is fact that she DID see many things that way and anyone who has ever done any reading about or research on her life can see that as clear as day. What I meant when I said the "1920's" was in part because of what I wrote above and also this: You/anyone cannot say that PPFA is focused on that today as their 'mission statement', it just is not fact.

Just a few things I want to throw out for consideration. In the list of the PPFA Margaret Sanger Award recipients, there are a couple I want to look at.

1966
The Reverend Martin Luther King Jr.
Do you really believe this man would have accepted and also said how honored he was to receive this if he felt they were on a course to destroy the very people, his race, by selectively aborting as many as possible?!

1972
Alan F. Guttmacher, MD

Guttmacher is the same Guttamcher behind the organization that you took some of your info from. Frederick Jaffe, another Sanger recipient, founded the PPFA Center for Family Planning Program Development and that later became The Alan Guttmacher Institute. Guttmacher helped block the efforts of demographers and politicians who urged coercive methods to halt population growth. He played a crucial role in the development of the birth control pill and IUD, was also a strong advocate for teen access to contraception and a woman's right to safe and legal abortion. He said his motivation was to end discrimination in medical care based on class or race.  In the 1950s, he was one of the main driving forces to end the ban on prescribing contraception at New York City’s municipal hospitals because they provided the bulk of medical care for the poor.

It might surprise many who are against the PPFA to look at the religious stances of those who were so instrumental in starting it and keeping it viable. They were able, in spite of the Bible's view, to realize that this organization had a crucial place and was needed by so many women - NOT for abortions either.

There is no way to deny atrocities like the Tuskegee Experiment. There is no way to deny that aborting a fetus can have a hugely detrimental effect on some women. I just don't go for the "throwing the baby out with the bath water" (NOT intended as sick humor) when there is so much more positive than negative on the side of PPFA. Why not ban Catholic churches because of the rampant pedophilia at the hands of priests? There are many, many things that can be put in the same light. I realize I have a different view than many because I have seen with my own eyes what a botched abortion does and compound that with having to tell someone they will now never be able to bear a child when the time is right. Go visit a hospital nursery sometime and ask to see the babies in withdrawal from heroin and crack. Take a peek at the ones who are already being IV'd with their AIDS cocktails - that is one hell of a life to look forward too. I can guarantee it won't be crowded with the mothers of those babies. They are either locked up after giving birth and those that aren't, well, let's just say they won't be coming back anytime soon to take their newborns home to a warm and safe environment.

[shernajwine]

Scratching your nose isn't murdering anything in your eyes

skin cells from my nose are not babies

even though the millions of sperm they throw away on a regular basis contain 1/2 the requirements to make a person

millions of sperm does not equal millions of babies

No one accuses god of being pro abortion despite the countless miscarriages he causes...oh, and the fact that up to 2/3 of fertilized eggs never properly attach to the uterine wall in the first place.

Miscarriages and unviable pregnancies are the result of biology. People do not choose to have a miscarriage or choose to have a fertilized egg not attach to the uterine wall. There is nothing even similar in either of those events to deciding and acting upon aborting a baby.

Hmm, I think you are diverting from the issue.  Do aborted fetuses go to heaven or not?  If so, I really don't get the crusade to "save" them.  Abortions are NOT the same as killing adults; let's get that perfectly clear.

I'm not diverting from the issue. Actually the theme of my posts hasn't been about whether I agree with abortion or any religious aspect of the issue it's about Planned Parenthood itself and my issue with the modern eugenics it's practices and the trauma women undergo post abortion. You have played a bait and switch with me..but that's okay 

Yes aborted babies go to heaven, that doesn't give people a free pass to kill them. Newborns go to heaven, but infanticide is wrong. Infants aren't adults. BUT even with that being said, I believe it is the same as killing an adult.

Since the mechanism by which mammals reproduce has been known for at least the last 150 years, any biologist in the world can tell you that a mammal’s life begins when the sperm from the father unites with the egg from the mother.  This process is called fertilization, and when the DNA from the father and mother have combined, the egg is called a fertilized egg, or zygote.  When the zygote splits into two cells, it is called a two-celled embryo.  When it splits into four cells, it is called a four-celled embryo, etc.  The definition of “embryo” is “the youngest form of a being.”

If this being is nourished and protected, it will proceed uninterrupted through the developmental stages of embryo, fetus, newborn, toddler, child, teen, adult and aged adult: one continuous existence.  This being never develops into a pig, a frog or a tree, but only into a human. This being is therefore, by definition, a living human being.
http://familydoctormag.com/sexual-health/251-when-does-life-begin-medical-experts-debate-abortion-issue.html

[shernajwine]

The Reverend Martin Luther King Jr.
Do you really believe this man would have accepted and also said how honored he was to receive this if he felt they were on a course to destroy the very people, his race, by selectively aborting as many as possible?!

I refer you to the link discussing the Negro Project. It goes into more depth in how the black community was deceived into thinking abortion was about equal and civil rights rather than a racial extermination project.

Guttmacher is the same Guttamcher behind the organization that you took some of your info from

I quoted statistics from Guttmacher to illustrate an idea. My reference to them specifically was because I was accused of only referencing biased information.

It might surprise many who are against the PPFA to look at the religious stances of those who were so instrumental in starting it and keeping it viable.

It doesn't surprise me jordandog. There are many a religious people I disagree with.

Go visit a hospital nursery sometime and ask to see the babies in withdrawal from heroin and crack. Take a peek at the ones who are already being IV'd with their AIDS cocktails - that is one hell of a life to look forward too. I can guarantee it won't be crowded with the mothers of those babies. They are either locked up after giving birth and those that aren't, well, let's just say they won't be coming back anytime soon to take their newborns home to a warm and safe environment.

I am not denying that babies come into this world in extremely horrible circumstances with a bleak future ahead of them. And it makes me just as nauseatingly sick that women are irresponsible enough to treat they lives the helped to create like a piece of garbage. I have seen babies addicted to crack. My own sister gave up her rights to her child just because she didn't want to pay child support. How caring and nurturing and mature of her right? It ticks me off to no end.

I don't agree with abortion. But as I said in an earlier post here I don't agree with a child being born in those circumstances either. It's a no win situation in my eyes. And there is no easy answer because society peddles sex as glamorous and fun. It's everywhere you go. You can educate people till your blue in the face. It doesn't MAKE them responsible. There is no such thing as virtue anymore. But that digresses into morality and religion at some point and I'm not really trying to go there.

You/anyone cannot say that PPFA is focused on that today as their 'mission statement', it just is not fact.

I think I have given enough evidence of the racism still prevalent. You can take it or leave it. But I can and am asserting it as fact. Their mission statement may have changed but the mission hasn't.