God is a Fake

[jsuderc]

plenty of people BELIEVE in things that are not considered proven facts--- i am not CLAIMING my God's existence is a FACT, I am simply claiming that I BELEIVE IN HIM, hope this makes more sense to ya as I am running out ways to word the same thing.

To summarize your claim then; you are asserting that you "believe" in something which lacks a factual basis for existance.  In other words, you aren't claiming such an existance as a fact but, are claiming to "believe" in a hypothetical existance.  This is a curious state of affairs.

Can you prove that God does not exist? Or is it possible that you only believe that He does not exist?

[SurveyMack10]

[a paraphrased version of Pascal's Wager]

This is a very cool comparison, I have never heard someone put it quite that way and found it very interesting!

It's still Pascal's Wager, no matter how you slice it.

Are you seriously argueing with my opinion that his spin on it was cool? It is an OPINION lol

[SurveyMack10]

plenty of people BELIEVE in things that are not considered proven facts--- i am not CLAIMING my God's existence is a FACT, I am simply claiming that I BELEIVE IN HIM, hope this makes more sense to ya as I am running out ways to word the same thing.

To summarize your claim then; you are asserting that you "believe" in something which lacks a factual basis for existance.  In other words, you aren't claiming such an existance as a fact but, are claiming to "believe" in a hypothetical existance.  This is a curious state of affairs.

Please don't feel the need to summarize my claim for me as I have done it myself several times.
Also, I am PURPOSELY only stating that i BELIEVE in God, not that it is a fact.
This is so that you cannot dodge proving that God does not exist by saying that I am the one who claimed he did.
I did NOT claim God is real.
I am absolutely NOT claiming God is real by fact.
I will repeat this again if you question it again.
I CHOOSE to believe God is real, and will always believe as such. I am NOT saying his existence is a fact.
To me, God is not hypothetical.
However, if that is what you think I respect that. (It IS possible to resect another's beliefs despite what you may think).
That being said, it is not at all a "curious state of affairs" for someone to have faith in something that has not been "scientifically" proven. This is actually quite common among many people in the world. (There are quite a lot of religious people in the word).

So, since you want a summary of my so-called "claim" if that is what you would like to call it:

1.) The only thing I am claiming as fact is that I BELIEVE IN GOD.
2.) I am NOT claiming God is factually real.
3.) I do not owe you any proof for God's existence as, I am NOT claiming he exists at all, simply that I CHOOSE to believe in him.

Now, I can only hope that I will not be forced to explain this anymore times than I already have.

I am going to assume this has FINALLY been cleared up and we can move on.
Now, since you are the only who seems to think your beliefs or lack thereof are the right way and the only way- please prove so by proving God does not exist.
ANY RESPONSE TO THIS POST SAYING I CLAIMED GOD'S EXISTENCE AS FACT WILL BE A BLATANT DISREGARD TO WHAT I SAID AND AN UTTER WASTE OF TIME.
I am asking you to please respond with proof of God not existing, or with an answer saying you cannot do so instead of a lengthy analysis of what I said and what you feel is wrong with it because that will simple be a dodge.


To restate just to clarify- the question for you is:

Can you prove God is real or not?
(yes or no)

If yes, please show the proof.
If no, thank you for the honest answer.

[falcon9]

[a paraphrased version of Pascal's Wager]

This is a very cool comparison, I have never heard someone put it quite that way and found it very interesting!

It's still Pascal's Wager, no matter how you slice it.

Are you seriously argueing with my opinion that his spin on it was cool? It is an OPINION lol

No, I merely stated my opinion on the subject.

[falcon9]

plenty of people BELIEVE in things that are not considered proven facts--- i am not CLAIMING my God's existence is a FACT, I am simply claiming that I BELEIVE IN HIM, hope this makes more sense to ya as I am running out ways to word the same thing.

To summarize your claim then; you are asserting that you "believe" in something which lacks a factual basis for existance.  In other words, you aren't claiming such an existance as a fact but, are claiming to "believe" in a hypothetical existance.  This is a curious state of affairs.

Please don't feel the need to summarize my claim for me as I have done it myself several times.

No, you kept repeating your claim in the form of a 'belief' and I summarized other inherent aspects of your claim which you did not.

Also, I am PURPOSELY only stating that i BELIEVE in God, not that it is a fact.

Yes, I know and this subsequently means that you either believe in something which does not exist or, that you are placing your belief in something that does.  No other possibilities spring to mind at the moment.

This is so that you cannot dodge proving that God does not exist by saying that I am the one who claimed he did.

It is not rational to require proof or, disproof of a negative assertion.  This would be like Falconeer02 asserting that invisible unicorns inhabit his garage and then challenging you to prove they don't.

I CHOOSE to believe God is real, and will always believe as such.

That's your claim; that you "believe god is real"; it isn't the belief per se but, the claim of reality in something which constitutes the claim.  As such, you cannot substantiate that claim and rely upon "belief" & "faith" which are defined as being without substantiation.

To me, God is not hypothetical.
However, if that is what you think I respect that. (It IS possible to resect another's beliefs despite what you may think).
That being said, it is not at all a "curious state of affairs" for someone to have faith in something that has not been "scientifically" proven. This is actually quite common among many people in the world. (There are quite a lot of religious people in the word).

Indeed, there are a substantial number of self-deluded people in the world.  This is not disputed.  The curious state of affairs refers to your belief in something which lacks substantiation, (not that billions of others do also - which falls under the same curious state of affairs).

So, since you want a summary of my so-called "claim" if that is what you would like to call it:

It _is_ your claim, which has nothing to do with what I "want to call it".

I do not owe you any proof for God's existence as, I am NOT claiming he exists at all, simply that I CHOOSE to believe in him.

Since your claim consists of the assertion that "I CHOOSE to believe God is real" and existance is an inherent aspect of reality, you are claiming that by direct inference.

ANY RESPONSE TO THIS POST SAYING I CLAIMED GOD'S EXISTENCE AS FACT WILL BE A BLATANT DISREGARD TO WHAT I SAID AND AN UTTER WASTE OF TIME.

Apparently, your insistance that stating a belief does not constitute making a claim blatantly disregards several posts contradicting that insistance.

I am asking you to please respond with proof of God not existing, or with an answer saying you cannot do so instead of a lengthy analysis of what I said and what you feel is wrong with it because that will simple be a dodge.

Firstly, I did not claim that 'god does not exist'.  Secondly, it is not rational to require proof or, disproof of a negative assertion.  This would be like Falconeer02 asserting that invisible unicorns inhabit his garage, for instance and then challenging you to prove they don't.

[falcon9]

plenty of people BELIEVE in things that are not considered proven facts--- i am not CLAIMING my God's existence is a FACT, I am simply claiming that I BELEIVE IN HIM, hope this makes more sense to ya as I am running out ways to word the same thing.

To summarize your claim then; you are asserting that you "believe" in something which lacks a factual basis for existance.  In other words, you aren't claiming such an existance as a fact but, are claiming to "believe" in a hypothetical existance.  This is a curious state of affairs.

Can you prove that God does not exist? Or is it possible that you only believe that He does not exist?

It is not rational to require proof or, disproof of a negative assertion.  This would be like Falconeer02 asserting that invisible unicorns inhabit his garage, for instance and then challenging you to prove they don't.

[jsuderc]

Quote
I heard it said once that an argument does not have to be convincing in order to be compelling. There are some who will dispute any argument in favor of God, but others are willing to hear. The God I believe in is not a vindictive hateful God. Rather, He is a God of love who hates sin, but loves the sinner.

First off, there are no convincing arguments that favor your god. All of them are filled with humongous holes that only the naive and ignorant hover over when they're brought into the light of reality. This has been demonstrated countless times on this forum by the christian group. Secondly, have you ever read the OT? You believe your god is a god of love, and yet he has furiously slaughtered and commanded the slaughter of people for jealous, petty, and childish reasons. If that is love to you, I am very frightened to be typing to you right now.

Answer
I have read those stories in the Old Testament and there is no denying that from the surface it appears that God is cruel and vindictive. However, look more closely at the stories. I believe the Bible cannot contradict itself. All through the Bible, God is shown to be loving and compassionate. How can love and justice be combined? In every instance where someone was killed or a nation was destroyed, God was not acting out of anger. He was acting out of love for He knew that if those people were allowed to stay alive, they would not change. (It is similar in many ways to an honest judge today. If the judge allowed a murderer to go free, they would likely only go out and do it again and teach others to do it.) They would only spread their wickedness and disbelief of God and grow harder and harder in their sins. If God were to slaughter innocent people for no reason, that would not be love and I would not want to serve a God like that. But that is not the kind of God I serve. You are totally misunderstanding the big picture in the Bible.



Quote
All of the misery in the world today is not because God is angry. Instead, it shows that God is fair and that He gives everybody a choice. They can accept God or reject Him. God will not force anyone to obey Him; I can't force anyone to believe in God. But I can present compelling evidence so that those who have open minds might be convinced.

Okay, another point here- If he's fair and allows for choice, explain to me how either accepting him or being eternally damned to hell is a fair choice from a fair god. How is that any different from The Godfather giving you "An offer you can't refuse"? It is coercion. "Do what I say or BURN!" Not really a fair choice, is it? Seriously, try explaining it w/o spiralling away from the basic question I asked.


Answer
That is not representative of the God I have learned to love. He does not hang threats of death over them. Rather, He gives everyone a choice. One misunderstanding here is that God does not have an eternally burning hell. The Bible teaches that everyone who dies sleeps in the grave until Jesus comes. Then, those who have chosen to not follow God will be destroyed by fire. That fire will burn forever--until it goes out and sin is totally destroyed. My evidence stated here is perhaps not conclusive, but there is plenty to back my belief in the Bible. Would it be fair for Cain to suffer 4000 years longer for murder than someone who commits the same crime? Back to the question at hand, God does not coerce people; rather He gives them the choice of life or death. It is their choice. If God were to force anybody to do anything, God would not be the loving God He says He is.



Quote
Those who don't believe there is a God will find out that they are wrong, but I really hope that you will realize that before God destroys sin and, with it, those who would not listen to His pleadings to repent.What is it that brings out such bitterness and hatred toward the thought of the existence of God

I assure you it has nothing to do with the god because freethinkers do not wholeheartedly believe or put faith in gods. It has to do with the believers spreading this cursing filth around to everyone because "they're commanded to do so". How ignorant does one have to be to realize that people DON'T want to be cursed to rot in a fiery afterlife just because they don't think the same way you do? From an aerial POV it is nothing more than rudeness and bitterness disguised as a 'loving' warning.


Answer
It is not that people will be lost because they don't believe the same way I do. People will be lost, though, if they understand the truths in the Bible and refuse to obey them. If you kill someone on purpose, the courts will give you a serious sentence. In a similar way, God's law cannot be disobeyed or else the person who disobeys and refuses to repent will receive a serious sentence. This is by no means a threat, it is a plea to change your ways and choose to believe in a God who loves you.

[jsuderc]

I'm sorry, my last post didn't come out formatted quite right. I hope it is still clear enough as it is

[falcon9]

I heard it said once that an argument does not have to be convincing in order to be compelling. There are some who will dispute any argument in favor of God, but others are willing to hear. The God I believe in is not a vindictive hateful God. Rather, He is a God of love who hates sin, but loves the sinner.

First off, there are no convincing arguments that favor your god. All of them are filled with humongous holes that only the naive and ignorant hover over when they're brought into the light of reality. This has been demonstrated countless times on this forum by the christian group. Secondly, have you ever read the OT? You believe your god is a god of love, and yet he has furiously slaughtered and commanded the slaughter of people for jealous, petty, and childish reasons. If that is love to you, I am very frightened to be typing to you right now.

Answer
I have read those stories in the Old Testament and there is no denying that from the surface it appears that God is cruel and vindictive. However, look more closely at the stories. I believe the Bible cannot contradict itself.

Secondarily, using the "bible" to support a point is using unsubstantiated hearsay to support your point.  Can you offer some other contention as support?

 

[SurveyMack10]

[a paraphrased version of Pascal's Wager]

This is a very cool comparison, I have never heard someone put it quite that way and found it very interesting!

It's still Pascal's Wager, no matter how you slice it.

Are you seriously argueing with my opinion that his spin on it was cool? It is an OPINION lol

No, I merely stated my opinion on the subject.

My choice to place my faith and belief in something does not means I am claiming it is a fact.
As I have stated SO many times and you choose to ignore.

[SurveyMack10]

plenty of people BELIEVE in things that are not considered proven facts--- i am not CLAIMING my God's existence is a FACT, I am simply claiming that I BELEIVE IN HIM, hope this makes more sense to ya as I am running out ways to word the same thing.

To summarize your claim then; you are asserting that you "believe" in something which lacks a factual basis for existance.  In other words, you aren't claiming such an existance as a fact but, are claiming to "believe" in a hypothetical existance.  This is a curious state of affairs.

Can you prove that God does not exist? Or is it possible that you only believe that He does not exist?

It is not rational to require proof or, disproof of a negative assertion.  This would be like Falconeer02 asserting that invisible unicorns inhabit his garage, for instance and then challenging you to prove they don't.

So your answer is NO you cannot prove he does not exist.

[SurveyMack10]

I heard it said once that an argument does not have to be convincing in order to be compelling. There are some who will dispute any argument in favor of God, but others are willing to hear. The God I believe in is not a vindictive hateful God. Rather, He is a God of love who hates sin, but loves the sinner.

First off, there are no convincing arguments that favor your god. All of them are filled with humongous holes that only the naive and ignorant hover over when they're brought into the light of reality. This has been demonstrated countless times on this forum by the christian group. Secondly, have you ever read the OT? You believe your god is a god of love, and yet he has furiously slaughtered and commanded the slaughter of people for jealous, petty, and childish reasons. If that is love to you, I am very frightened to be typing to you right now.

Answer
I have read those stories in the Old Testament and there is no denying that from the surface it appears that God is cruel and vindictive. However, look more closely at the stories. I believe the Bible cannot contradict itself.

Secondarily, using the "bible" to support a point is using unsubstantiated hearsay to support your point.  Can you offer some other contention as support?

 

Ah, the proof is not up to your standards. So scientists can record things that happened int he past and they are fact- but because those who recorded the Bible are not scientists it is fiction? This is simply a question as to why you assert the Bible is not an acceptable recording of history.

[falcon9]

My choice to place my faith and belief in something does not means I am claiming it is a fact.
As I have stated SO many times and you choose to ignore.

Then the converse must be the case; that you choose to place your faith and belief in something non-factual, (i.e., unreal, untrue, false, nonextistent - by definition).

[falcon9]

plenty of people BELIEVE in things that are not considered proven facts--- i am not CLAIMING my God's existence is a FACT, I am simply claiming that I BELEIVE IN HIM, hope this makes more sense to ya as I am running out ways to word the same thing.

To summarize your claim then; you are asserting that you "believe" in something which lacks a factual basis for existance.  In other words, you aren't claiming such an existance as a fact but, are claiming to "believe" in a hypothetical existance.  This is a curious state of affairs.

Can you prove that God does not exist? Or is it possible that you only believe that He does not exist?

It is not rational to require proof or, disproof of a negative assertion.  This would be like Falconeer02 asserting that invisible unicorns inhabit his garage, for instance and then challenging you to prove they don't.

So your answer is NO you cannot prove he does not exist.

Your reading and comprehension skills cast aspersions upon such theoretical skills.  Your interpretated conclusion is invalid due to what was actually stated and quoted and not your fanciful interpretation.

[SurveyMack10]

plenty of people BELIEVE in things that are not considered proven facts--- i am not CLAIMING my God's existence is a FACT, I am simply claiming that I BELEIVE IN HIM, hope this makes more sense to ya as I am running out ways to word the same thing.

To summarize your claim then; you are asserting that you "believe" in something which lacks a factual basis for existance.  In other words, you aren't claiming such an existance as a fact but, are claiming to "believe" in a hypothetical existance.  This is a curious state of affairs.

Can you prove that God does not exist? Or is it possible that you only believe that He does not exist?

It is not rational to require proof or, disproof of a negative assertion.  This would be like Falconeer02 asserting that invisible unicorns inhabit his garage, for instance and then challenging you to prove they don't.

So your answer is NO you cannot prove he does not exist.

Your reading and comprehension skills cast aspersions upon such theoretical skills.  Your interpretated conclusion is invalid due to what was actually stated and quoted and not your fanciful interpretation.

On the contrary, you could NOT prove he did not exist and instead of admitting it made up an excuse as to why.