God is a Fake

[falcon9]

There are many things you believe in that you cannot see. Take for example, gravity. You cannot see gravity, but you believe it is there to keep you from flying out into space. The only reason you believe in gravity is because you have experienced it and what it does for you. You have to have faith that gravity exists before you jump. Once you jump, then you have proof for yourself that it exists. There are many examples like this.

This is not an accurate example since gravity is a measurable force and does not require a belief in its existance in order to exist.  This is a testable 'force' and a disbelief in it does not preclude its existance.

In the same way, you cannot see God.

To use "Abrupt's" phrase; the above is a false dichotomy since "god" is not a measurable 'force' in the same degree as gravity is.

If you would have faith that God exists, you will find that He does and you will have proof for yourself that He exists.

No, that's circular 'reasoning' in that the conclusion is the premise.  "Faith" does not confer existance in something.
 

You can certainly present evidence that God exists, but you have to individually prove it to yourself by experiencing Him for yourself.

No evidence has been presented that "god" exists.  Referring to a subjective experience of "faith" does not constitute evidence.

Aside from this, God does not just exist; He loves you!

Your additional claim sans evidence is duly noted.

[Kattieforbis]

I believe in God. With our suffering there can be no compassion. I've gone thru soo much in my life and I truley realize and ahve to believe for my own sanity that there is a God and how wonderful the promise of Salvation... I also believe to each their own. But I'm sure you'll be missed if your not heaven with your family. best of luck

[SurveyMack10]

Show me where I came on this thread and said GOD IS REAL.

Since that was not the claim I quoted you as stating, your non sequitur is disregarded.  Your stated claim was as follows:
Reply #175 on: September 05, 2011, 03:56:46 pm, Message ID: 412682
Wherein "SurveyMack10" stated her claim that:

"I am not claiming God is or is not real, I believe He is ..."[/endquote]

The claim therefore consists of claiming to "believe He is" (real).  A "belief" is an asserted opinion which lacks substantive proof, (and is subsequently an empty opinion in that it has no discernable basis).  As an aside, so much for your grand-standing, posturing "goodbye", (as in:  Quote from: SurveyMack10 on September 15, 2011, 03:49:38 pm:

"... you cannot support your claim that God does not exist. Goodbye."

Okay, I've reposted your claim; your turn to repost my alledged claim "that God does not exist".  Failure to do so will be correctly construed as blatant dishonesty.

So you want me to prove that I BELIEVE God is real,not that he IS real-

No, the request was not that you prove that your _belief_, (although that does make for an interesting secondary claim on your behalf, hmm...).  Instead, the request was that you substantiate your tacit claim of believing in something that is "real/exists" since the converse position would be that you believe in something which is unreal/doesn't exist.  Unless you are seriously implying directly that your belief is in something which does not exist/is unreal?




Also, thanks for asserting that I do not know what semantics means when I clearly do.


   Merely making an empty assertion that you do does not substantiate your claim that you do know.  This has not been clearly demonstrated, although you have clearly demonstrated a penchant for making empty declarations, (presumably couched as unsupported opinion).


I wish we could all be as superior and genius as you THINK you are.

Oh, now you are claiming to know that I think such a thing.  How presumptious of you!  Just to set the record straight; I never claimed any such thing and it is my converse opinion that society needs folks like you in less challenging workforce positions, (unless of course, they are perpetual college students).
[/quote]

1st of all- what I believe in is irrelelvant as you are the one claiming God is not real(which you still have not proven your claim). I believe that is the 15th time that point has been made. When you respond with little word games AGAIN and try to make yourself sound educated I will LOL as I have been at all your other petty remarks.
2nd-Weird how I am AHEAD in my studies, yet you assert that I am likely a perpetual college student. It is clear that you are posing as something you are not on this forum and are simply here to act superior to others. YOU ARE MAKING A FOOL OF YOURSELF. I hope that is clear, because the more time you waste hanging around here attempting to sound intelligent the less time you could be doing something productive or learning to make a valid point instead of hopping around every question or proof someone asks of you.
A response is not necessary as it will only mirror what you have already said and not add anything useful to the debate. Thanks.

[falcon9]

Show me where I came on this thread and said GOD IS REAL.

Since that was not the claim I quoted you as stating, your non sequitur is disregarded.  Your stated claim was as follows:
Reply #175 on: September 05, 2011, 03:56:46 pm, Message ID: 412682
Wherein "SurveyMack10" stated her claim that:

"I am not claiming God is or is not real, I believe He is ..."[/endquote]

The claim therefore consists of claiming to "believe He is" (real).  A "belief" is an asserted opinion which lacks substantive proof, (and is subsequently an empty opinion in that it has no discernable basis).  As an aside, so much for your grand-standing, posturing "goodbye", (as in:  Quote from: SurveyMack10 on September 15, 2011, 03:49:38 pm:

"... you cannot support your claim that God does not exist. Goodbye."

Okay, I've reposted your claim; your turn to repost my alledged claim "that God does not exist".  Failure to do so will be correctly construed as blatant dishonesty.

   Merely making an empty assertion that you do does not substantiate your claim that you do know.  This has not been clearly demonstrated, although you have clearly demonstrated a penchant for making empty declarations, (presumably couched as unsupported opinion).

I wish we could all be as superior and genius as you THINK you are.

Oh, now you are claiming to know that I think such a thing.  How presumptious of you!  Just to set the record straight; I never claimed any such thing and it is my converse opinion that society needs folks like you in less challenging workforce positions, (unless of course, they are perpetual college students).

1st of all- what I believe in is irrelelvant as you are the one claiming God is not real(which you still have not proven your claim).

Firstly, your "belief" is relevant to the context of the point reiterated several times.  Namely, that you either 'believe in' that which is unreal or, real.  Secondly, I have not claimed that "god is unreal" and have instead requested that you provide a quoted reference - which you have repeatedly failed to do.  These are not "word games", they are simple and relevant arguments.

A response is not necessary as it will only mirror what you have already said and not add anything useful to the debate. Thanks.

What a cheap 'debate' tactic you've failed to sucessfully employ; your own comments have added nothing pertinent to this debate and continue to clearly show you dissembling and dodging direct requests to substantiate your empty claims.  This pattern of dishonesty is emphasized every time you dodge and weave and still get sacked before you throw the ball.

[SurveyMack10]

Show me where I came on this thread and said GOD IS REAL.

Since that was not the claim I quoted you as stating, your non sequitur is disregarded.  Your stated claim was as follows:
Reply #175 on: September 05, 2011, 03:56:46 pm, Message ID: 412682
Wherein "SurveyMack10" stated her claim that:

"I am not claiming God is or is not real, I believe He is ..."[/endquote]

The claim therefore consists of claiming to "believe He is" (real).  A "belief" is an asserted opinion which lacks substantive proof, (and is subsequently an empty opinion in that it has no discernable basis).  As an aside, so much for your grand-standing, posturing "goodbye", (as in:  Quote from: SurveyMack10 on September 15, 2011, 03:49:38 pm:

"... you cannot support your claim that God does not exist. Goodbye."

Okay, I've reposted your claim; your turn to repost my alledged claim "that God does not exist".  Failure to do so will be correctly construed as blatant dishonesty.

   Merely making an empty assertion that you do does not substantiate your claim that you do know.  This has not been clearly demonstrated, although you have clearly demonstrated a penchant for making empty declarations, (presumably couched as unsupported opinion).

I wish we could all be as superior and genius as you THINK you are.

Oh, now you are claiming to know that I think such a thing.  How presumptious of you!  Just to set the record straight; I never claimed any such thing and it is my converse opinion that society needs folks like you in less challenging workforce positions, (unless of course, they are perpetual college students).

1st of all- what I believe in is irrelelvant as you are the one claiming God is not real(which you still have not proven your claim).

Firstly, your "belief" is relevant to the context of the point reiterated several times.  Namely, that you either 'believe in' that which is unreal or, real.  Secondly, I have not claimed that "god is unreal" and have instead requested that you provide a quoted reference - which you have repeatedly failed to do.  These are not "word games", they are simple and relevant arguments.

A response is not necessary as it will only mirror what you have already said and not add anything useful to the debate. Thanks.

What a cheap 'debate' tactic you've failed to sucessfully employ; your own comments have added nothing pertinent to this debate and continue to clearly show you dissembling and dodging direct requests to substantiate your empty claims.  This pattern of dishonesty is emphasized every time you dodge and weave and still get sacked before you throw the ball.

That makes no sense considering I made NO claims here.

[falcon9]

That makes no sense considering I made NO claims here.

Your stated claim was as follows:
Reply #175 on: September 05, 2011, 03:56:46 pm, Message ID: 412682
Wherein "SurveyMack10" stated her claim that:

"I am not claiming God is or is not real, I believe He is ..."[/endquote]

You either don't consider your claim to be a claim, (which is an irrelevant consideration since your claim falls under the parameters of making a claim), you're in some sort of pathological/ compulsive denial of making your quoted claim or, you're simply lying.  Which is it?

[SurveyMack10]

That makes no sense considering I made NO claims here.

Your stated claim was as follows:
Reply #175 on: September 05, 2011, 03:56:46 pm, Message ID: 412682
Wherein "SurveyMack10" stated her claim that:

"I am not claiming God is or is not real, I believe He is ..."[/endquote]

You either don't consider your claim to be a claim, (which is an irrelevant consideration since your claim falls under the parameters of making a claim), you're in some sort of pathological/ compulsive denial of making your quoted claim or, you're simply lying.  Which is it?

Repeating myself to you is exhausting- my only claim, if you want to call it that, is to BELIEVE something. I never claimed it was a fact that he existed, it is simply a fact that I believe in him personally.

[falcon9]

That makes no sense considering I made NO claims here.

Your stated claim was as follows:
Reply #175 on: September 05, 2011, 03:56:46 pm, Message ID: 412682
Wherein "SurveyMack10" stated her claim that:

"I am not claiming God is or is not real, I believe He is ..."[/endquote]

You either don't consider your claim to be a claim, (which is an irrelevant consideration since your claim falls under the parameters of making a claim), you're in some sort of pathological/ compulsive denial of making your quoted claim or, you're simply lying.  Which is it?

Repeating myself to you is exhausting- my only claim, if you want to call it that, is to BELIEVE something. I never claimed it was a fact that he existed, it is simply a fact that I believe in him personally.

Yes, your 'belief', (in the reality of "god"), constitutes your claim.  If you are now implying that you believe in something which does not exist, that would be a curious dichotomy.

[jsuderc]

There are only two sides to this discussion. Let's look at this in a mathematical, logical way. God either exists or he doesn't. That means that there is at least a 50% chance that God exists and a 50% chance God does not exit. He either exists or He doesn't. That is a wager that everybody must take.

Three criteria decide whether or not a wager is intelligent. If you put any wager or gamble into this equation, you will be able to determine whether or not you should take the wager. The three criteria are the size of the prize, the size of the risk, and the chances of actually winning the prize. In a big lottery, the prize is very large and the risk is very small (the cost of the ticket), but the chances of winning are very small. That means that investment of even a small amount of money in such a wager may not be wise. (I do not believe in gambling, but I am not making a case for or against gambling; just bear with me for the point of illustration.)

Let's pretend that all of us who read this are not Christians and think this through logically. Let's take a look at the gospel wager. Since the Bible is the basis of Christianity, let's look at one verse in the Bible that is basically the focal point of the Bible. John 3:16 says, “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.”

If this is true, what would be the prize? Everlasting life. That is an infinitely incomprehensibly large prize. Living forever means that the first billion years will only be a second in light of living forever. We just can't comprehend that. To look at Christianity by its own claims let's read another verse from the Bible, Mark 10:28-30. In these verses, one of the followers of Jesus, Peter, asks Jesus a question—basically “what do we get from following you, from taking this gospel wager. “Jesus answered and said, 'Assuredly, I say to you, there is no one who has left house or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for My sake and the gospel's, who shall not receive a hundredfold now in this time--houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and lands, with persecutions--and in the age to come, eternal life.'” Jesus says that if we are obeying and following God, we will have a hundredfold better life in this life and when this story of earth wraps up, we will eternal life. Anyone who has lived a life as a non-christian and has been truly converted can testify to the fact they they are much happier after they become a Christian than before. The possible prize of eternal happiness, both now and for eternity has infinite value.

On its own terms, what is the chance of winning? “Whoever believes” receives the prize. If you have capacity to believe anything, you can win this wager. That means that the chances of winning the prize is 100%—100% of those who take the gospel wager will receive the prize.

What is the risk involved? There is no risk at all. To show that there is risk, you would have to prove that the life of a non-christian was superior in either quantity or quality to the life of a Christian.

The question must be asked, should I choose to live as though God exists or as though God does not exist? The safer choice is to live as though God does exist. If I am  right, I gain everything (infinite happiness) and lose nothing. If wrong, I gain nothing and lose nothing.

The prize is infinitely large; the chance of winning is 100%; and there is absolutely no risk involved. Who wouldn't take a wager like that? If you take this wager, you will lose nothing because there is no risk involved. If you hold to your belief that there is no God and you are wrong, when this life wraps up, you  have lost everything. On the contrary, if I hold to my beliefs that God does exist and choose to live the way He wants me to and I am wrong, when this life is over I will have lost nothing.

Won't you take the wager?

[jordandog]

There are only two sides to this discussion. Let's look at this in a mathematical, logical way. God either exists or he doesn't. That means that there is at least a 50% chance that God exists and a 50% chance God does not exit. He either exists or He doesn't. That is a wager that everybody must take.

I wondered how long it would be until the next christian recycled [the very faulty] 'Pascal's Wager'. It seems jsuderec found it appropriate. Keep in mind there is an inherent and all encompassing 'fail factor' in using it though.
The 'Wager' applies to all gods, equally. 

[falcon9]

There are only two sides to this discussion. Let's look at this in a mathematical, logical way. God either exists or he doesn't. That means that there is at least a 50% chance that God exists and a 50% chance God does not exit. He either exists or He doesn't. That is a wager that everybody must take.

I wondered how long it would be until the next christian recycled [the very faulty] 'Pascal's Wager'. It seems jsuderec found it appropriate. Keep in mind there is an inherent and all encompassing 'fail factor' in using it though.
The 'Wager' applies to all gods, equally. 

Exactly; the odds apply to _various_ "gods" and that reduces them significantly from 50%.  Not only that, the terms of such a wager are understated to an appalling degree:

"The cost to "place the bet" is not as low as some would claim. Tithes and other contributions are just the beginning. People are dying, now, as I type, because of their religion, or because of somebody else's religion. There are people refusing medical treatment because it's "against their religion". There are people killing other people over religion. The "ethnic cleansing" in Eastern Europe was very much a religious war between Christians and Muslims. Similar conflicts are taking place in Indonesia. And let's not forget 9/11." -- http://www.jhuger.com/pascal

[jsuderc]

I heard it said once that an argument does not have to be convincing in order to be compelling. There are some who will dispute any argument in favor of God, but others are willing to hear. The God I believe in is not a vindictive hateful God. Rather, He is a God of love who hates sin, but loves the sinner.

All of the misery in the world today is not because God is angry. Instead, it shows that God is fair and that He gives everybody a choice. They can accept God or reject Him. God will not force anyone to obey Him; I can't force anyone to believe in God. But I can present compelling evidence so that those who have open minds might be convinced.

Many people are bitter toward God because they suppose that God is causing all of this pain and discouragement in the world. No, it is not God who is causing this. It is sin; and soon God will get rid of that too. Those who refuse to let go of sin and rebellion will find out perhaps too late that the sinner must be destroyed with the sin. God is a God of love who will do everything to save the sinner; but God is also a God of justice who will destroy the sinner with the sin if he refuses to let go. I believe it is a fatal mistake to not believe in God. Those who don't believe there is a God will find out that they are wrong, but I really hope that you will realize that before God destroys sin and, with it, those who would not listen to His pleadings to repent.

What is it that brings out such bitterness and hatred toward the thought of the existence of God?

[falcon9]

I heard it said once that an argument does not have to be convincing in order to be compelling.

There's nothing especially irresistibleabout the premise of your "argument" presented thusfar.
 

There are some who will dispute any argument in favor of God, but others are willing to hear.

That's probably due to every argument in favor of "god" being unconvincing and lacking substantiation, (relying instead upon groundless "faith" & "belief"). 

I can't force anyone to believe in God.

Yet, others have tried and failed to do so throughout history - all in the name of one "god" or another.

But I can present compelling evidence so that those who have open minds might be convinced.

No compelling evidence has been presented to support such a contention.  Groundless opinions based upon "faith" & "belief" do not constitute evidence.  The 'open-minded' slur backfires due to the hypocritcal nature of teh derrogatory remark.

God is also a God of justice who will destroy the sinner with the sin if he refuses to let go. I believe it is a fatal mistake to not believe in God. Those who don't believe there is a God will find out that they are wrong, but I really hope that you will realize that before God destroys sin and, with it, those who would not listen to His pleadings to repent.

What is it that brings out such bitterness and hatred toward the thought of the existence of God?

Just speculating here but, had you considered the possibility that threatening such dire punishments, (in the name of your "god"), might have a little bit to do with not appreciating such threats?  No doubt these threats are not determined to be threats by those who issue them; unfortunately for them, others will oppose such tyranny until such time as superstitious nonsense no longer blinds the human eye. 

[Falconer02]

I heard it said once that an argument does not have to be convincing in order to be compelling. There are some who will dispute any argument in favor of God, but others are willing to hear. The God I believe in is not a vindictive hateful God. Rather, He is a God of love who hates sin, but loves the sinner.

First off, there are no convincing arguments that favor your god. All of them are filled with humongous holes that only the naive and ignorant hover over when they're brought into the light of reality. This has been demonstrated countless times on this forum by the christian group. Secondly, have you ever read the OT? You believe your god is a god of love, and yet he has furiously slaughtered and commanded the slaughter of people for jealous, petty, and childish reasons. If that is love to you, I am very frightened to be typing to you right now.

All of the misery in the world today is not because God is angry. Instead, it shows that God is fair and that He gives everybody a choice. They can accept God or reject Him. God will not force anyone to obey Him; I can't force anyone to believe in God. But I can present compelling evidence so that those who have open minds might be convinced.

Okay, another point here- If he's fair and allows for choice, explain to me how either accepting him or being eternally damned to hell is a fair choice from a fair god. How is that any different from The Godfather giving you "An offer you can't refuse"? It is coercion. "Do what I say or BURN!" Not really a fair choice, is it? Seriously, try explaining it w/o spiralling away from the basic question I asked.

Those who don't believe there is a God will find out that they are wrong, but I really hope that you will realize that before God destroys sin and, with it, those who would not listen to His pleadings to repent.What is it that brings out such bitterness and hatred toward the thought of the existence of God

I assure you it has nothing to do with the god because freethinkers do not wholeheartedly believe or put faith in gods. It has to do with the believers spreading this cursing filth around to everyone because "they're commanded to do so". How ignorant does one have to be to realize that people DON'T want to be cursed to rot in a fiery afterlife just because they don't think the same way you do? From an aerial POV it is nothing more than rudeness and bitterness disguised as a 'loving' warning.

[loulizlee]

I don't understand that concept, either.  Are you saying that there is a God but He is fake, or are you saying there is no god, fake or otherwise.  I've read lots of your posts and I believe that YOU may be a fake.