To the Christian who thinks only those who accept Christ will go to heaven....

[jordandog]

Jesus and his family and the early christians paid taxes, so that's why they pay taxes too, are you calling Jesus a hypocrite? If so i'm srry you feel that way.

You are NOT actually comparing the two, please, you cannot be that over the top with this stuff! We have that funny little thing called the government and the I.R.S. Last time I checked they were NOT taxing us because they sat around a table and asked WWJD?

[teflonfanatic]

Jesus and his family and the early christians paid taxes, so that's why they pay taxes too, are you calling Jesus a hypocrite? If so i'm srry you feel that way.

You are NOT actually comparing the two, please, you cannot be that over the top with this stuff! We have that funny little thing called the government and the I.R.S. Last time I checked they were NOT taxing us because they sat around a table and asked WWJD?

Luke 23:1-4 reads So the multitude of them rose, one and all, and led him to Pilate. 2 Then they started to accuse him, saying: “This man we found subverting our nation and forbidding the paying of taxes to Caesar and saying he himself is Christ a king.” 3 Now Pilate asked him the question: “Are you the king of the Jews?” In answer to him he said: “You yourself are saying [it].” 4 Then Pilate said to the chief priests and the crowds: “I find no crime in this man.”

What have we learned here?

1. They accused Jesus of forbidden the paying of taxes
2. Pontius pilate found no fault in him(meaning the accusation was false otherwise he would have been guilty)
3. That's proof Jesus didn't try to get people not to pay taxes.

Jesus said “Pay back Caesar’s things to Caesar, but God’s things to God.”(Mark 12:17)

[mrstina08]

Good works or just being nice to people would not land you in heaven for sure!!! Even if you had a curew for cancer.

[teflonfanatic]

Good works or just being nice to people would not land you in heaven for sure!!! Even if you had a curew for cancer.

Actually mrstina08 most People who just believe in Christ don't even think about good works or trying to live a christian life. For example many believe in Jesus yet live a life completely opposite of a true christian. While it's true that there's no "yard stick" for good and bad in God's eyes you should strive not to do bad.

I.E. Suppose the man and woman in the relationship had faith it will work but never worked on the relationship, do you think that relationship will last forever? However what if they had faith it will work and tried to make it work at the same time, do you think it will last forever now?

P.S. you get what i'm saying?

[shernajwine]

Did Jesus think it was Noble or even condoned it?

War is the result of sin (i.e some person or group of people setting out to commit genocide or exert their beliefs and agendas over another group of people). So does God like war? No, but in what sense would God be a just God if we are to stand by in situations like that of Hitler and his regime.

"How could God be called 'good' if He forbade His people to protect their wives from ravishment and strangulation by drunken marauders, or to resist invaders who have come to pick up their children and dash out their brains against the wall? No policy would give freer rein to wickedness and crime than a complete surrender of the right of self-defense on the part of the law-abiding members of society. No more effective way of promoting the cause of Satan and the powers of hell could be devised than depriving law-abiding citizens of all right of self-defense. It is hard to imagine how any deity could be thought 'good' who would ordain such a policy of supine surrender to evil as that advocated by pacifism. All possibility of an ordered society would be removed on the abolition of any sort of police force. No nation could retain its liberty or preserve the lives of its citizens if it were prevented from maintaining any sort of army for its defense. It is therefore incumbent on a 'good God' to include the right of self-defense as the prerogative of His people. He would not be good at all if He were to turn the world over to the horrors of unbridled cruelty perpetrated by violent and *bleep* criminals or the unchecked aggression of invading armies.
Gleason L. Archer (Encyclopedia of Bible difficulties)

We learned three things here.

1. Jesus didn't want his followers to fight on his behalf
2. Jesus had great power at his disposal but didn't use it to kill and only if the father grants it or let's him(appeal)
3. Jesus asked how would the scriptures by fulfilled, meaning it goes against the fulfillment of scripture.

In this particular scripture reference, Jesus was only referring to the fact that he HAD to die on the cross. That was why he came, that was his purpose from Day 1. Any follower of him trying to fight against this happening, was fighting against God's purpose and Christ himself! Fighting wars against evil acts to defend and protect the weak, wronged and defenseless.....are not even in the same category as this situation.

There is war all through the bible for pete's sake! Is every war justified?? People differ in their opinion of the necessity of certain wars in our history. However, it is plain ludicrous in my opinion to suggest that EVERY war is unnecessary and that people are being thrown out their church or disfellowshiped in the case of JW's, for wanting to fight for a just and noble cause. Is freedom a just and noble cause? Most people would say yes.

If you disagree, perhaps you should live for awhile in a country where your practice of Christianity will get you killed. Or read some personal accounts on what it was like to be a colored person in the 1800's.

Prostitution is a form of enslavement that currently involves perhaps 800,000 children under the age of sixteen, bought and sold for a profit that exceeds that of the drug trade or weapons sales or lotteries or sports gambling. Girls as young as 10-12 years old service men in the sex industry. Many of the girls typically have sex with ten to fifteen men every day, and sometimes as many as 20 to 30.

Maybe you could ask some of the girls sold into prostitution if THEY think freedom is a noble cause for war? Or maybe you could look at their bruised broken and abused bodies and maintain a stand of "holy" neutrality and indifference. 

[teflonfanatic]

Did Jesus think it was Noble or even condoned it?

War is the result of sin (i.e some person or group of people setting out to commit genocide or exert their beliefs and agendas over another group of people). So does God like war? No, but in what sense would God be a just God if we are to stand by in situations like that of Hitler and his regime.

"How could God be called 'good' if He forbade His people to protect their wives from ravishment and strangulation by drunken marauders, or to resist invaders who have come to pick up their children and dash out their brains against the wall? No policy would give freer rein to wickedness and crime than a complete surrender of the right of self-defense on the part of the law-abiding members of society. No more effective way of promoting the cause of Satan and the powers of hell could be devised than depriving law-abiding citizens of all right of self-defense. It is hard to imagine how any deity could be thought 'good' who would ordain such a policy of supine surrender to evil as that advocated by pacifism. All possibility of an ordered society would be removed on the abolition of any sort of police force. No nation could retain its liberty or preserve the lives of its citizens if it were prevented from maintaining any sort of army for its defense. It is therefore incumbent on a 'good God' to include the right of self-defense as the prerogative of His people. He would not be good at all if He were to turn the world over to the horrors of unbridled cruelty perpetrated by violent and *bleep* criminals or the unchecked aggression of invading armies.
Gleason L. Archer (Encyclopedia of Bible difficulties)

We learned three things here.

1. Jesus didn't want his followers to fight on his behalf
2. Jesus had great power at his disposal but didn't use it to kill and only if the father grants it or let's him(appeal)
3. Jesus asked how would the scriptures by fulfilled, meaning it goes against the fulfillment of scripture.

In this particular scripture reference, Jesus was only referring to the fact that he HAD to die on the cross. That was why he came, that was his purpose from Day 1. Any follower of him trying to fight against this happening, was fighting against God's purpose and Christ himself! Fighting wars against evil acts to defend and protect the weak, wronged and defenseless.....are not even in the same category as this situation.

There is war all through the bible for pete's sake! Is every war justified?? People differ in their opinion of the necessity of certain wars in our history. However, it is plain ludicrous in my opinion to suggest that EVERY war is unnecessary and that people are being thrown out their church or disfellowshiped in the case of JW's, for wanting to fight for a just and noble cause. Is freedom a just and noble cause? Most people would say yes.

If you disagree, perhaps you should live for awhile in a country where your practice of Christianity will get you killed. Or read some personal accounts on what it was like to be a colored person in the 1800's.

Prostitution is a form of enslavement that currently involves perhaps 800,000 children under the age of sixteen, bought and sold for a profit that exceeds that of the drug trade or weapons sales or lotteries or sports gambling. Girls as young as 10-12 years old service men in the sex industry. Many of the girls typically have sex with ten to fifteen men every day, and sometimes as many as 20 to 30.

Maybe you could ask some of the girls sold into prostitution if THEY think freedom is a noble cause for war? Or maybe you could look at their bruised broken and abused bodies and maintain a stand of "holy" neutrality and indifference. 

Your comments are in bold

War is the result of sin (i.e some person or group of people setting out to commit genocide or exert their beliefs and agendas over another group of people). So does God like war? No, but in what sense would God be a just God if we are to stand by in situations like that of Hitler and his regime."How could God be called 'good' if He forbade His people to protect their wives from ravishment and strangulation by drunken marauders, or to resist invaders who have come to pick up their children and dash out their brains against the wall? No policy would give freer rein to wickedness and crime than a complete surrender of the right of self-defense on the part of the law-abiding members of society. No more effective way of promoting the cause of Satan and the powers of hell could be devised than depriving law-abiding citizens of all right of self-defense. It is hard to imagine how any deity could be thought 'good' who would ordain such a policy of supine surrender to evil as that advocated by pacifism. All possibility of an ordered society would be removed on the abolition of any sort of police force. No nation could retain its liberty or preserve the lives of its citizens if it were prevented from maintaining any sort of army for its defense. It is therefore incumbent on a 'good God' to include the right of self-defense as the prerogative of His people. He would not be good at all if He were to turn the world over to the horrors of unbridled cruelty perpetrated by violent and *bleep* criminals or the unchecked aggression of invading armies.
Gleason L. Archer (Encyclopedia of Bible difficulties)


Romans 12:17-21 reads 17 Return evil for evil to no one. Provide fine things in the sight of all men. 18 If possible, as far as it depends upon YOU, be peaceable with all men. 19 Do not avenge yourselves, beloved, but yield place to the wrath; for it is written: “Vengeance is mine; I will repay, says Jehovah.” 20 But, “if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by doing this you will heap fiery coals upon his head.” 21 Do not let yourself be conquered by the evil, but keep conquering the evil with the good.

I know what you mean but that's what scripture says, The bible says nothing about defending yourself but says not to kill your fellowman. Yes there was killing in the OT and there's even killing in the NT(Revelation), but it's God who decides not man, both those acts of killing came from God himself, he Judges not us. BTW, the catholic church and some protestant church groups HELPED hitler. I'm srry if I gave you the idea of pacifism the JW's are not pacifist but apolitical and don't kill people. JW's defend themselves without using weapons and appeal to the Government for their religious freedom when necessary. But they don't kill for that freedom.

In this particular scripture reference, Jesus was only referring to the fact that he HAD to die on the cross. That was why he came, that was his purpose from Day 1. Any follower of him trying to fight against this happening, was fighting against God's purpose and Christ himself! Fighting wars against evil acts to defend and protect the weak, wronged and defenseless.....are not even in the same category as this situation.

You say fighting wars to protect the wronged is not in the same category as this situation yet the disciple attacked the man for wrongly arresting Jesus. The motives of say the CIA or the Navy or Army is to kill first, protect second. There's no religious motive for doing so(God ordained) as there supporting a faction that God didn't support. Consider these 2 verse below

Daniel 2:44 reads And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite;

Matthew 4:8-9 reads 8 Again the Devil took him along to an unusually high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory, 9 and he said to him: “All these things I will give you if you fall down and do an act of worship to me.”

We learn 2 things here.

1. God will Crush and put an end to all kingdoms
2. Satan has control over all these Kingdoms because he offers Jesus all these Kingdoms

If you disagree, perhaps you should live for awhile in a country where your practice of Christianity will get you killed. Or read some personal accounts on what it was like to be a colored person in the 1800's.

Prostitution is a form of enslavement that currently involves perhaps 800,000 children under the age of sixteen, bought and sold for a profit that exceeds that of the drug trade or weapons sales or lotteries or sports gambling. Girls as young as 10-12 years old service men in the sex industry. Many of the girls typically have sex with ten to fifteen men every day, and sometimes as many as 20 to 30.

Maybe you could ask some of the girls sold into prostitution if THEY think freedom is a noble cause for war? Or maybe you could look at their bruised broken and abused bodies and maintain a stand of "holy" neutrality and indifference. 

I know my black history believe it or not. Did you know some of those leaders didn't kill people such as MLK? Killing is a lot different then defending yourself which most people confuse. Also if it gets me killed i'm glad I died faithfully, did you know people died to have the translation of the bible you use now without killing?

As for trafficked kids and kids forced to go into war(that happens in some countries), there pretty much lost for life, I can't speak on behalf of trafficked children and even if I could there chance at knowing God was robbed from them at in early age so they wouldn't be able to follow on standards they never even learned or knew.

I'll ask an ex military or CIA person(if I can find one hey never know) about it, if there's people who killed in the past and seen horrible stuff it will be them.

Bottom line is people who love their neighbor(no matter how evil they are) don't kill. It's hard, it's pretty much unfair if not impossible but true christians love not kill their neighbor.

[shernajwine]

The bible says nothing about defending yourself but says not to kill your fellowman

The bible says not to murder, it doesn't say not to kill. If the original Hebrew really translated "Thou shalt not kill" that would constitute a contradiction in God's character since he specifically told people to go to war in the OT.

Not only is a proper and responsible policy of self-defense taught by Scripture from Genesis to Revelation, but there were occasions when God even commissioned His people to carry out judgment on corrupt and degenerate heathen nations and the complete extermination of cities like Jericho (Joshua 6:21). The rules of war laid down in Deuteronomy 20 represented a control of justice, fairness, and kindness in the use of the sword, and, as such, they truly did reflect the goodness of God.

You say fighting wars to protect the wronged is not in the same category as this situation yet the disciple attacked the man for wrongly arresting Jesus. The motives of say the CIA or the Navy or Army is to kill first, protect second.

Jesus was wrongly arrested. Which is exactly what had to happen. To have fought to protect him was to fight AGAINST God. That is why it is different.

And how can you know the motives of the CIA, the Navy or Army as a whole?? One of the Army's mottos is "This we'll defend"

And again, like Falconer said. Without wars having been fought, you wouldn't have the right to be a JW.

Bottom line is people who love their neighbor(no matter how evil they are) don't kill. It's hard, it's pretty much unfair if not impossible but true christians love not kill their neighbor.

That is quite a noble statement. People who love their neighbor don't kill. I love my neighbor and I don't want anyone to get killed. But if my neighbor came to my house and tried to slaughter my family I would not just stand idly by without fighting back. And if my fighting back resulted in that persons death....well I'm sorry they died but I'm not sorry I defended my family. And that does not go against scripture no matter what you try to pull out to prove otherwise.

And I'm sorry but if you believe that self defense is not scriptural then you believe in a bible that contradicts itself. Does you being a "true" Christian mean that you accept these contradictions and have faith in a God that lies?

The bible says nothing about defending yourself but says not to kill your fellowman. Yes there was killing in the OT and there's even killing in the NT(Revelation), but it's God who decides not man, both those acts of killing came from God himself

So according to you, the bible says don't kill. Unless God tells you to. And somehow that makes breaking that rule okay. If that's the case, anyone can say "God told me to kill em" and who are you to say he didn't??

That sounds like a bunch of nonsense to me and not the God that I love and serve. My bible doesn't contradict itself from my interpretation. So you can think I'm a false Christian if you want but if I really believed what you say I probably wouldn't be a Christian at all.

[shernajwine]

I would add also:

Christians should not desire war, but neither are Christians to oppose the government God has placed in authority over them (Romans 13:1-4; 1 Peter 2:17). The most important thing we can be doing in a time of war is to be praying for godly wisdom for our leaders, praying for the safety of our military, praying for quick resolution to conflicts, and praying for a minimum of casualties among civilians on both sides (Philippians 4:6-7).

This anti war example was fused into Jesus Christ who did not defend himself when questioned by his persecutors (in a court of law), instead he faced them head on, with no weapons, and was turned into a *bleep* mess.

Although Christians are not to oppose the government and its authority, it doesn't mean that we have to agree with them every time.
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/just_war_principle.html

The Bible teaches that we have the right to self defense, Exodus 22:2: "If the thief is caught while breaking in, and is struck so that he dies, there will be no blood guiltiness on his account." The Bible also tells us to protect the innocent, Deut. 19:10, "So innocent blood will not be shed in the midst of your land which the Lord your God gives you as an inheritance, and blood guiltiness be on you." Also, see "Fathers shall not be put to death for their sons, nor shall sons be put to death for their fathers; everyone shall be put to death for his own sin," (Deut. 24:16). If we were to apply these principles to war, I would conclude that war is justifiable when it is in self defense and/or when it is to protect the innocent. Therefore, a Christian could rightfully engage in war given those conditions.
http://carm.org/should-christian-go-war

I don't understand how you can say the bible says nothing about defending yourself. 

[walksalone11]

Anyone can author a book and make any claims they wish and call it non-fiction and find a publisher.

Anyone, or any group can adopt any catchy slogan or motto.

Has anyone ever heard of "propaganda"?

As far as translations, reminds me of the person who wanted the tatoos with the Japanese writing that says love or peace or some such fluufy thing and comes out proud and bragging about their new tat that actually translates to dip *bleep* or some other derogatory phrase.

Always verify what you have verified, please.

[Dianna37]

The bible says nothing about defending yourself but says not to kill your fellowman

The bible says not to murder, it doesn't say not to kill. If the original Hebrew really translated "Thou shalt not kill" that would constitute a contradiction in God's character since he specifically told people to go to war in the OT.

Not only is a proper and responsible policy of self-defense taught by Scripture from Genesis to Revelation, but there were occasions when God even commissioned His people to carry out judgment on corrupt and degenerate heathen nations and the complete extermination of cities like Jericho (Joshua 6:21). The rules of war laid down in Deuteronomy 20 represented a control of justice, fairness, and kindness in the use of the sword, and, as such, they truly did reflect the goodness of God.

You say fighting wars to protect the wronged is not in the same category as this situation yet the disciple attacked the man for wrongly arresting Jesus. The motives of say the CIA or the Navy or Army is to kill first, protect second.

Jesus was wrongly arrested. Which is exactly what had to happen. To have fought to protect him was to fight AGAINST God. That is why it is different.

And how can you know the motives of the CIA, the Navy or Army as a whole?? One of the Army's mottos is "This we'll defend"

And again, like Falconer said. Without wars having been fought, you wouldn't have the right to be a JW.

Bottom line is people who love their neighbor(no matter how evil they are) don't kill. It's hard, it's pretty much unfair if not impossible but true christians love not kill their neighbor.

That is quite a noble statement. People who love their neighbor don't kill. I love my neighbor and I don't want anyone to get killed. But if my neighbor came to my house and tried to slaughter my family I would not just stand idly by without fighting back. And if my fighting back resulted in that persons death....well I'm sorry they died but I'm not sorry I defended my family. And that does not go against scripture no matter what you try to pull out to prove otherwise.

And I'm sorry but if you believe that self defense is not scriptural then you believe in a bible that contradicts itself. Does you being a "true" Christian mean that you accept these contradictions and have faith in a God that lies?

The bible says nothing about defending yourself but says not to kill your fellowman. Yes there was killing in the OT and there's even killing in the NT(Revelation), but it's God who decides not man, both those acts of killing came from God himself

So according to you, the bible says don't kill. Unless God tells you to. And somehow that makes breaking that rule okay. If that's the case, anyone can say "God told me to kill em" and who are you to say he didn't??

That sounds like a bunch of nonsense to me and not the God that I love and serve. My bible doesn't contradict itself from my interpretation. So you can think I'm a false Christian if you want but if I really believed what you say I probably wouldn't be a Christian at all.

 Well, I believe in God.     We are all God's children no matter what color or religion.  I am a Pagan meaning a country dweller,
And you are right, if we all strive to do good in this world no matter the religion, It's not right for someone or anyone to judge how we as God's children worship God. For example, it's not right for one to judge an African or an Indian because of their rituals in belief of God.
Remember the the saying, ''Thou shalt not judge for thou shall be judged'' and what about the story about the Tower of Babble, If God wanted all of us to be one in religion, he would never have destroyed the Tower to Heaven.  No matter of color of race, or religion, we all strive to do good and teach our children to do good.  My Father's ancestors are Irish and my Mom's ancestors is Choctaw and Ottahwah Indian, so therefore, I've done my research on both and found out a lot about my history and their rituals. But since God destroyed the tower, we of any race of color has many languages throughout the world instead of having the same language and beliefs.
  In the beginning, we the children of God created such a war between Christians, The Jews, the Pagans, and so forth, and that same war is still going on today.  Instead of creating such a war, Why can't we do as God says, ''Turn the other Cheek'' ''Thou shall not judge for thou shall be judged''.  Why do the Jews of today still stone their own kind to death even their own children when they do wrong?
  Why do our schools have to take out school prayer? I believe it should be for anyone who wants to attend, and not force them into it, remember Thy Free Will.  If I could I would love to attend a real African ritual as well as for an Indian ritual, or a real Jewish ritual, It would be awesome for me. No matter how old we get, we are never too old to learn something new everyday.

[walksalone11]

The bible says nothing about defending yourself but says not to kill your fellowman

The bible says not to murder, it doesn't say not to kill. If the original Hebrew really translated "Thou shalt not kill" that would constitute a contradiction in God's character since he specifically told people to go to war in the OT.

Not only is a proper and responsible policy of self-defense taught by Scripture from Genesis to Revelation, but there were occasions when God even commissioned His people to carry out judgment on corrupt and degenerate heathen nations and the complete extermination of cities like Jericho (Joshua 6:21). The rules of war laid down in Deuteronomy 20 represented a control of justice, fairness, and kindness in the use of the sword, and, as such, they truly did reflect the goodness of God.

You say fighting wars to protect the wronged is not in the same category as this situation yet the disciple attacked the man for wrongly arresting Jesus. The motives of say the CIA or the Navy or Army is to kill first, protect second.

Jesus was wrongly arrested. Which is exactly what had to happen. To have fought to protect him was to fight AGAINST God. That is why it is different.

And how can you know the motives of the CIA, the Navy or Army as a whole?? One of the Army's mottos is "This we'll defend"

And again, like Falconer said. Without wars having been fought, you wouldn't have the right to be a JW.

Bottom line is people who love their neighbor(no matter how evil they are) don't kill. It's hard, it's pretty much unfair if not impossible but true christians love not kill their neighbor.

That is quite a noble statement. People who love their neighbor don't kill. I love my neighbor and I don't want anyone to get killed. But if my neighbor came to my house and tried to slaughter my family I would not just stand idly by without fighting back. And if my fighting back resulted in that persons death....well I'm sorry they died but I'm not sorry I defended my family. And that does not go against scripture no matter what you try to pull out to prove otherwise.

And I'm sorry but if you believe that self defense is not scriptural then you believe in a bible that contradicts itself. Does you being a "true" Christian mean that you accept these contradictions and have faith in a God that lies?

The bible says nothing about defending yourself but says not to kill your fellowman. Yes there was killing in the OT and there's even killing in the NT(Revelation), but it's God who decides not man, both those acts of killing came from God himself

So according to you, the bible says don't kill. Unless God tells you to. And somehow that makes breaking that rule okay. If that's the case, anyone can say "God told me to kill em" and who are you to say he didn't??

That sounds like a bunch of nonsense to me and not the God that I love and serve. My bible doesn't contradict itself from my interpretation. So you can think I'm a false Christian if you want but if I really believed what you say I probably wouldn't be a Christian at all.

 Well, I believe in God.     We are all God's children no matter what color or religion.  I am a Pagan meaning a country dweller,
And you are right, if we all strive to do good in this world no matter the religion, It's not right for someone or anyone to judge how we as God's children worship God. For example, it's not right for one to judge an African or an Indian because of their rituals in belief of God.
Remember the the saying, ''Thou shalt not judge for thou shall be judged'' and what about the story about the Tower of Babble, If God wanted all of us to be one in religion, he would never have destroyed the Tower to Heaven.  No matter of color of race, or religion, we all strive to do good and teach our children to do good.  My Father's ancestors are Irish and my Mom's ancestors is Choctaw and Ottahwah Indian, so therefore, I've done my research on both and found out a lot about my history and their rituals. But since God destroyed the tower, we of any race of color has many languages throughout the world instead of having the same language and beliefs.
  In the beginning, we the children of God created such a war between Christians, The Jews, the Pagans, and so forth, and that same war is still going on today.  Instead of creating such a war, Why can't we do as God says, ''Turn the other Cheek'' ''Thou shall not judge for thou shall be judged''.  Why do the Jews of today still stone their own kind to death even their own children when they do wrong?
  Why do our schools have to take out school prayer? I believe it should be for anyone who wants to attend, and not force them into it, remember Thy Free Will.  If I could I would love to attend a real African ritual as well as for an Indian ritual, or a real Jewish ritual, It would be awesome for me. No matter how old we get, we are never too old to learn something new everyday.

The intent of Ceremony, is not to satisfy some curiosity. That is most dis-respectful and selfish. Either one is NDN all day every day....or they're not.

I'm not sure what sources you used to study your NDN heritage, but unless you were gifted this wisdom by your own Relations, then the information offered is, in most all cases in very unreliable.

[OctaviaLewis]

well, then since we looking at the facts lets look at the bible. if you read the bible im sure you would have to agree that it says no where that gay or lesbian is a sin, yet christians say it is...also it does mention that incest is ok only when it suites gods purpose, that is a bit to faced dont you think not to mention wrong....it also states jesus forgiving a prostitute, but so many today look down on them and talk badly about them. it also states that we are to love each other but why are so many christian leaders supporting war and making war in gods name....why is it that the christian kill so many people, and stole land from any one that wasnt christian.

i am sorry but history proves and the bible proves that christianity is what is wrong with this world, look at the facts again...

i knw that we all have different beliefs but if you speak on the bible then you should study a little more closely god destroyed cities sodom and gomorra because of the unholy things that were going on there (Genesis chapter 19) that should give you all the info you need on the subject and as far as facts go none of us were there so we r all going on hear say an we have freewill thank god to believe or disbelieve.the choice is yours

[jordandog]

In addition to the rest of the inane, ignorant, uneducated, and ridiculous things posted by this person, this one really took the cake! Walks already addressed the NDN writings and it's HIS place, not mine to do that, but they also offended me greatly for him.

Dianna37:

Why do the Jews of today still stone their own kind to death even their own children when they do wrong?

What?! Really?! Just where DID you get this little BS tidbit of incredibly wrong info from?
Hey, AmyRouse - tell me honestly. When and who did you and your family last stone to death? Just in case you are also ignorant of this, which IS fact, AmyRouse just happens to be Jewish. I can't wait to see what she has to say about this.....

[shernajwine]

Anyone can author a book and make any claims they wish and call it non-fiction and find a publisher.

Anyone, or any group can adopt any catchy slogan or motto.

Has anyone ever heard of "propaganda"?

As far as translations, reminds me of the person who wanted the tatoos with the Japanese writing that says love or peace or some such fluufy thing and comes out proud and bragging about their new tat that actually translates to dip *bleep* or some other derogatory phrase.

Always verify what you have verified, please.

I'm not sure if you're addressing this to me walks but since it came right after my post I'll assume so.

The bible is in harmony with recorded historical events. http://www.bible-history.com/
The bible is in harmony with archaeological findings. http://www.uhcg.org/news/is-bible-true.html
Historians and writers outside of biblical writings such as: Tacitus, Suetonius, Flavius Josephus, Thallus, Pliny the Younger all mention Jesus.

The Babylonian Talmud (Sanhedrin 43a) confirms Jesus' crucifixion on the eve of Passover and the accusations against Christ of practicing sorcery and encouraging Jewish apostasy.

Lucian of Samosata was a second-century Greek writer who admits that Jesus was worshiped by Christians, introduced new teachings, and was crucified for them. He said that Jesus' teachings included the brotherhood of believers, the importance of conversion, and the importance of denying other gods. Christians lived according to Jesus’ laws, believed themselves to be immortal, and were characterized by contempt for death, voluntary self-devotion, and renunciation of material goods.

Mara Bar-Serapion confirms that Jesus was thought to be a wise and virtuous man, was considered by many to be the king of Israel, was put to death by the Jews, and lived on in the teachings of His followers.
http://www.gotquestions.org/did-Jesus-exist.html

I think there is enough evidence for me to conclude that bible is not fiction.

As for the motto of the Army. You are right anyone can adopt any motto and the military has carried out actions issued from the government that are no doubt wrong. However, my point being that the motive of the military a whole is to defend. Some individuals within the military may have ahboreous ideas about wiping out people they don't like. Some leaders within the military may have those same ideas. But the point and purpose for the military is defensive in nature. And no one should be excommunicated, shamed, disfellowshipped, shunned, or protested because they choose to join the military.

You mentioned translations. I assume you are referring to my statement that my interpretation of the bible doesn't contradict itself.

I have verified countless times in this forum alone, where a supposed contradiction is not a contradiction. I have referenced original Hebrew and Greek writings to show what a word actually interprets to. I have given explanations to show that supposed passages proving God's evil nature, are not proving any such thing.

I'm not here to proselytize anyone. I have given ample explanations with references and reliable historical facts to defend my position as a Christian. When I'm addressing another Christian I don't try to defend the bible because they believe it the same as me, whether we disagree on interpretation or not. And in this post I was addressing a person who believes the bible (albeit from a wrong interpretation IMO)

[walksalone11]

In addition to the rest of the inane, ignorant, uneducated, and ridiculous things posted by this person, this one really took the cake! Walks already addressed the NDN writings and it's HIS place, not mine to do that, but they also offended me greatly for him.

Dianna37:

Why do the Jews of today still stone their own kind to death even their own children when they do wrong?

What?! Really?! Just where DID you get this little BS tidbit of incredibly wrong info from?
Hey, AmyRouse - tell me honestly. When and who did you and your family last stone to death? Just in case you are also ignorant of this, which IS fact, AmyRouse just happens to be Jewish. I can't wait to see what she has to say about this.....

LMIAO...yeah that caught my eye too. Thought I'd let Amy address that. Still cleaning the mess up off the ant hill from the last time......heh heh heh