To the Christian who thinks only those who accept Christ will go to heaven....

[shernajwine]

Actually if you can find a verse that has Christ's disciples killing people I'll leave the JW's.

Peter called death on Annanias and Saphira. You will probably argue that he didn't actually lay a hand to them but there ya go. And it isn't my objective to make you leave the JW's.

I'm more level headed now and less heated then I was before, can you please elaborate on what you feel is the contradiction(i'm genuinely interested), I showed from scripture God commanded those to kill to gain a land that he promised and to "protect his nation"(Joshua 1:1-6).

You claim scripture says you are not allowed to kill. Yet God will let you kill if he gives you the green light. This a contradiction in God's character because nowhere near the listing of this commandment does it say (unless I say it's okay), making God a liar.

I understand that the commandment refers to murder, which is NEVER okay. Also I pointed out where God said not to allow innocent blood to be spilt on the land he gave them. And a scripture showing permission for self defense. Therefore your belief that a country cannot defend itself constitutes a contradiction in scripture, making the bible unreliable.

With all due respect almost every church is praying for those to kill other people sometimes they pray(practically during World War 1 and 2) to kill other christians or people who believe in the same lord. The church has a tremendous history of supporting Nationalistic interests which is in many respects a religion itself. I'll leave one last scripture.

That is an appalling thing to say. You cannot just assert what other people pray for and the intentions in their heart when they pray?! The wars America has fought have not been about going around and asking people if they are Christian and then killing them if they say yes! That is ridiculous. That's tantamount to claiming to be God yourself!

4 Adulteresses, do YOU not know that the friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever, therefore, wants to be a friend of the world is constituting himself an enemy of God.( James 4:4)

I'm not even entirely sure what your point is with this scripture. But joining the military is not befriending the world. Our country must have a defense or we are at the will of any person who would come and destroy us.

This whole argument is so insane to me to even be having. It blows my mind that anyone would be looked DOWN on for such a thing.

Listen, you are an intelligent person. I believe you are sincere in your beliefs and I'm truly sorry I got so emotional in my responses to you.

I love my country. I don't necessarily love the way the government runs it but I love what my country stands for and I honor the people willing to die for her. So this issue is too emotional for me to continue with. You have your opinions on it. I believe your interpretation of scripture is in error, but what does that mean to me?
Not much.

I suppose on a bigger scale it means, if you want to fight for your country and be a Christian......don't be a JW.

[teflonfanatic]

Actually if you can find a verse that has Christ's disciples killing people I'll leave the JW's.

Peter called death on Annanias and Saphira. You will probably argue that he didn't actually lay a hand to them but there ya go. And it isn't my objective to make you leave the JW's.

I'm more level headed now and less heated then I was before, can you please elaborate on what you feel is the contradiction(i'm genuinely interested), I showed from scripture God commanded those to kill to gain a land that he promised and to "protect his nation"(Joshua 1:1-6).

You claim scripture says you are not allowed to kill. Yet God will let you kill if he gives you the green light. This a contradiction in God's character because nowhere near the listing of this commandment does it say (unless I say it's okay), making God a liar.

I understand that the commandment refers to murder, which is NEVER okay. Also I pointed out where God said not to allow innocent blood to be spilt on the land he gave them. And a scripture showing permission for self defense. Therefore your belief that a country cannThe ot defend itself constitutes a contradiction in scripture, making the bible unreliable.

Church has a tremendous history of supporting Nationalistic interests which is in many respects a religion itself. I'll leave one last scripture.

That is an appalling thing to say. You cannot just assert what other people pray for and the intentions in their heart when they pray?! The wars America has fought have not been about going around and asking people if they are Christian and then killing them if they say yes! That is ridiculous. That's tantamount to claiming to be God yourself!

4 Adulteresses, do YOU not know that the friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever, therefore, wants to be a friend of the world is constituting himself an enemy of God.( James 4:4)

I'm not even entirely sure what your point is with this scripture. But joining the military is not befriending the world. Our country must have a defense or we are at the will of any person who would come and destroy us.

This whole argument is so insane to me to even be having. It blows my mind that anyone would be looked DOWN on for such a thing.

Listen, you are an intelligent person. I believe you are sincere in your beliefs and I'm truly sorry I got so emotional in my responses to you.

I love my country. I don't necessarily love the way the government runs it but I love what my country stands for and I honor the people willing to die for her. So this issue is too emotional for me to continue with. You have your opinions on it. I believe your interpretation of scripture is in error, but what does that mean to me?
Not much.

I suppose on a bigger scale it means, if you want to fight for your country and be a Christian......don't be a JW.

[/quote]

Peter called death on Annanias and Saphira. You will probably argue that he didn't actually lay a hand to them but there ya go. And it isn't my objective to make you leave the JW's.

While I will indeed argue he didn't do it directly i'm interested in reading the account(show me please the scripture), becomes slighty open minded.

You claim scripture says you are not allowed to kill. Yet God will let you kill if he gives you the green light. This a contradiction in God's character because nowhere near the listing of this commandment does it say (unless I say it's okay), making God a liar.


in the list it also says you must not steal, however when you take other people's stuff after you capture or kill them that's taking something that waasn't originally yours(stealing). God allowed that to happen after almost every war the Israaelites won, is he still a liar?



That is an appalling thing to say. You cannot just assert what other people pray for and the intentions in their heart when they pray?! The wars America has fought have not been about going around and asking people if they are Christian and then killing them if they say yes! That is ridiculous. That's tantamount to claiming to be God yourself!

I understand what's going on now, you think that only america fights for christianity and not other countries. That's why i'm not getting through.  America is not the only christian nation in the world, While your right I can't know the motives of people's prayers, when you see clergy blessing troops what else comes to mine? Here are just some countries that are predominantly christian.

 Europe, Russia, the Americas, the Philippines, Southern Africa, Central Africa, East Africa and Oceania

Here is a list of the countries where it's the state religion

 Argentina (Roman Catholic Church)[8], Bolivia (Roman Catholic Church and Christianity)[9], Costa Rica (Roman Catholic Church)[10], Denmark (Danish National Church)[11], El Salvador (Roman Catholic Church)[12], England (Church of England)[13], Greece (Church of Greece), Georgia (Georgian Orthodox Church), Iceland (Church of Iceland)[14], Liechtenstein (Roman Catholic Church)[15], Malta (Roman Catholic Church)[16], Monaco (Roman Catholic Church)[17], Norway (Church of Norway)[18], Vatican City (Roman Catholic Church)[19], Switzerland (Roman Catholic Church, Swiss Reformed Church and Christian Catholic Church of Switzerland

And to top it all off Christianity is the second largest religion in the middle east. My dear, this is why I don't want people killed do whatever you can not to kill people, the supporters of Nationalism are going to kill off fellow christians in the name of their respective governments who are supposedly Christian!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Defend yourself to the best of your ability without killing.

Here's a vision of the HARLOT(false religion) made drunk with the blood(killing in the name of this B@#$! I mean Harlot) of the holy ones and witnesses of Jesus(Christians) riding on top of the world political powers(Wild beast)(Revelation 17:1-15)

1 And one of the seven angels that had the seven bowls came and spoke with me, saying: “Come, I will show you the judgment upon the great harlot who sits on many waters, 2 with whom the kings of the earth committed fornication, whereas those who inhabit the earth were made drunk with the wine of her fornication.”

3 And he carried me away in [the power of the] spirit into a wilderness. And I caught sight of a woman sitting upon a scarlet-colored wild beast that was full of blasphemous names and that had seven heads and ten horns. 4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet, and was adorned with gold and precious stone and pearls and had in her hand a golden cup that was full of disgusting things and the unclean things of her fornication. 5 And upon her forehead was written a name, a mystery: “Babylon the Great, the mother of the harlots and of the disgusting things of the earth.” 6 And I saw that the woman was drunk with the blood of the holy ones and with the blood of the witnesses of Jesus.

Well, on catching sight of her I wondered with great wonderment. 7 And so the angel said to me: “Why is it you wondered? I will tell you the mystery of the woman and of the wild beast that is carrying her and that has the seven heads and the ten horns: 8 The wild beast that you saw was, but is not, and yet is about to ascend out of the abyss, and it is to go off into destruction. And when they see how the wild beast was, but is not, and yet will be present, those who dwell on the earth will wonder admiringly, but their names have not been written upon the scroll of life from the founding of the world.

9 “Here is where the intelligence that has wisdom comes in: The seven heads mean seven mountains, where the woman sits on top. 10 And there are seven kings: five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet arrived, but when he does arrive he must remain a short while. 11 And the wild beast that was but is not, it is also itself an eighth [king], but springs from the seven, and it goes off into destruction.

12 “And the ten horns that you saw mean ten kings, who have not yet received a kingdom, but they do receive authority as kings one hour with the wild beast. 13 These have one thought, and so they give their power and authority to the wild beast. 14 These will battle with the Lamb, but, because he is Lord of lords and King of kings, the Lamb will conquer them. Also, those called and chosen and faithful with him [will do so].”

15 And he says to me: “The waters that you saw, where the harlot is sitting, mean peoples and crowds and nations and tongues.

[shernajwine]

While I will indeed argue he didn't do it directly i'm interested in reading the account(show me please the scripture), becomes slighty open minded.

Acts 5 I believe

I understand what's going on now, you think that only america fights for christianity and not other countries.

No I don't. Nor did I previously to your post. I am aware of the history of Americas wars and who were her allies and enemies. I may not be an encyclopedia but I am not completely ignorant either.

Like I said I am not debating this issue further. I like you as a person but I dislike the idea that someone was kicked out of their church for joining the military. My views will not change and I have said all I want to say about the matter 

[Huwee]

We are in hell period...life is hell to go threw.We all make it to Heaven once we sleep forever(DIE)...*bleep* Hell could be fun if you make it that way.But Heaven is all silent peace forever.

[travislang]

ok im back just this one last time, and shernajwine this is not for you this time.....

so the bible says its ok to protect yourself but not kill, i get that,     but you cant tell me that if the time came it meant to kill to protect your family, (wife,kids,mom,dad,grandparents,husband) iif someone had a gun to there heads and you had a gun next to you you would be stupid to just lay down and let them die, becuase you and i both know just peading to not do it wont work....

and also if the JW remembers about history it isnt the praying or the preaching that freed them to continue to have there religion it was the military that made that possible by defeating hitler, it also freed the jews but they dont seem to have a problem with the military so i go there with them. but yes the military kills and the bible says dont kill, but for the majority of the military it is only from self defense, and yes i was on of them. and yes i read and researched the bible, i found nowhere where it stated that you could not kill from self protection. if you can find that then please tell me where.

and as far as my religion goes i am pagan now, but no im not wiccan, am actually celtic but studing wicca for the 2 are actually very close to each other. and as far as the movie the craft goes its actually more gothic then pagan, and gothic took from pagan a lot but not everything, so watching the craft makes you not a expert on the subject

[teflonfanatic]

ok im back just this one last time, and shernajwine this is not for you this time.....

so the bible says its ok to protect yourself but not kill, i get that,     but you cant tell me that if the time came it meant to kill to protect your family, (wife,kids,mom,dad,grandparents,husband) iif someone had a gun to there heads and you had a gun next to you you would be stupid to just lay down and let them die, becuase you and i both know just peading to not do it wont work....

and also if the JW remembers about history it isnt the praying or the preaching that freed them to continue to have there religion it was the military that made that possible by defeating hitler, it also freed the jews but they dont seem to have a problem with the military so i go there with them. but yes the military kills and the bible says dont kill, but for the majority of the military it is only from self defense, and yes i was on of them. and yes i read and researched the bible, i found nowhere where it stated that you could not kill from self protection. if you can find that then please tell me where.

and as far as my religion goes i am pagan now, but no im not wiccan, am actually celtic but studing wicca for the 2 are actually very close to each other. and as far as the movie the craft goes its actually more gothic then pagan, and gothic took from pagan a lot but not everything, so watching the craft makes you not a expert on the subject

Your comments are in bold(hopefully I won't bold myself)

so the bible says its ok to protect yourself but not kill, i get that,     but you cant tell me that if the time came it meant to kill to protect your family, (wife,kids,mom,dad,grandparents,husband) iif someone had a gun to there heads and you had a gun next to you you would be stupid to just lay down and let them die, becuase you and i both know just peading to not do it wont work....

Although i'm with the JW's I don't support some of the things they say such as stay away from "apostate content" on the internet(yep I actually try to use my brain to decide for myself).  If I was in that situation I would shoot the person in the leg or some body part where I won't kill him. Yeah i'm not allowed to use weapons such as a gun but I value my families life as well and again it doesn't say how to defend yourself but rather don't kill.


and also if the JW remembers about history it isnt the praying or the preaching that freed them to continue to have there religion it was the military that made that possible by defeating hitler, it also freed the jews but they dont seem to have a problem with the military so i go there with them. but yes the military kills and the bible says dont kill, but for the majority of the military it is only from self defense, and yes i was on of them. and yes i read and researched the bible, i found nowhere where it stated that you could not kill from self protection. if you can find that then please tell me where.

You can't say the military did this or that for the JW's because the JW's are worldwide and the U.S. military doesn't fight everywhere at the same time now does it oh wait it does under different names!!!! At the same time the JW's where in that mess because they refused to fight for the military(in every country) remember? So the nationalistic fighting(militaries) is just as responsible for the imprisonment.What gave the JW's there rights was appealing to the Government their rights to preach.

While the bible doesn't say you can't kill for protection, it does say YOU would be killed if you kill. If your reasoning is why must I follow this if i'm going to die anyway read my final comments and scriptures at the bottom of this page.

Matthew 26:52  Then Jesus said to him: “Return your sword to its place, for all those who take the sword will perish by the sword.

Revelation 13:9-10 10 If anyone [is meant] for captivity, he goes away into captivity. If anyone will kill with the sword, he must be killed with the sword. Here is where it means the endurance and faith of the holy ones.

and as far as my religion goes i am pagan now, but no im not wiccan, am actually celtic but studing wicca for the 2 are actually very close to each other. and as far as the movie the craft goes its actually more gothic then pagan, and gothic took from pagan a lot but not everything, so watching the craft makes you not a expert on the subject
[/quote]

your comment about watching a movie doesn't make you an expert is one of the few things we agree on. Actually if anyone claims there an expert on a subject just cause they watched a film needs help. I'll agree that there's truths in all movies even the animated ones but not enough to make you an expert. I'm willing to make threads that are question and answer about various belief systems can I start with yours?

I'm almost 90% sure your going to skip this section, however i'm going to post it anyway and then tell me what you think. Here's some help for what your about to read

Dragon= Devil
Beasts= Political systems
Sea=  People
Earth= Established human society
Heads= Kingdoms or governments

13 And it stood still upon the sand of the sea.
And I saw a wild beast ascending out of the sea, with ten horns and seven heads, and upon its horns ten diadems, but upon its heads blasphemous names. 2 Now the wild beast that I saw was like a leopard, but its feet were as those of a bear, and its mouth was as a lion’s mouth. And the dragon gave to [the beast] its power and its throne and great authority.
3 And I saw one of its heads as though slaughtered to death, but its death-stroke got healed, and all the earth followed the wild beast with admiration. 4 And they worshiped the dragon because it gave the authority to the wild beast, and they worshiped the wild beast with the words: “Who is like the wild beast, and who can do battle with it?” 5 And a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies was given it, and authority to act forty-two months was given it. 6 And it opened its mouth in blasphemies against God, to blaspheme his name and his residence, even those residing in heaven. 7 And there was granted it to wage war with the holy ones and conquer them, and authority was given it over every tribe and people and tongue and nation. 8 And all those who dwell on the earth will worship it; the name of not one of them stands written in the scroll of life of the Lamb who was slaughtered, from the founding of the world.
9 If anyone has an ear, let him hear. 10 If anyone [is meant] for captivity, he goes away into captivity. If anyone will kill with the sword, he must be killed with the sword. Here is where it means the endurance and faith of the holy ones.
11 And I saw another wild beast ascending out of the earth, and it had two horns like a lamb, but it began speaking as a dragon. 12 And it exercises all the authority of the first wild beast in its sight. And it makes the earth and those who dwell in it worship the first wild beast, whose death-stroke got healed. 13 And it performs great signs, so that it should even make fire come down out of heaven to the earth in the sight of mankind.
14 And it misleads those who dwell on the earth, because of the signs that were granted it to perform in the sight of the wild beast, while it tells those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the wild beast that had the sword-stroke and yet revived. 15 And there was granted it to give breath to the image of the wild beast, so that the image of the wild beast should both speak and cause to be killed all those who would not in any way worship the image of the wild beast.
16 And it puts under compulsion all persons, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free and the slaves, that they should give these a mark in their right hand or upon their forehead, 17 and that nobody might be able to buy or sell except a person having the mark, the name of the wild beast or the number of its name. 18 Here is where wisdom comes in: Let the one that has intelligence calculate the number of the wild beast, for it is a man’s number; and its number is six hundred and sixty-six.(Revelation 13)

[travislang]

first know it was the military that made freedom of religion possible, if all it took was the pleading and protesting then hitler was not a military leader history made him out to be, and would have not killed so many people.

and i am not sure what the last part was to mean, i know you claim it talks of the devil the people, the society and all that. but i dont believe there is the devel per say.   meaening i believe the devel exists but only in ourselves, not as christianity say he does exists.

and for you to not support everything that JW says or preach, is wrong in there eyes as well. i know i was also asked by them to not ask questions that leads to them not being true. and i was doing this at a young age, i forced to join at 8 years old by my ex step dad and at that time yes i was only asking to learn more, but now i dont ask i research my own to find truth.

[teflonfanatic]

first know it was the military that made freedom of religion possible, if all it took was the pleading and protesting then hitler was not a military leader history made him out to be, and would have not killed so many people.

and i am not sure what the last part was to mean, i know you claim it talks of the devil the people, the society and all that. but i dont believe there is the devel per say.   meaening i believe the devel exists but only in ourselves, not as christianity say he does exists.

and for you to not support everything that JW says or preach, is wrong in there eyes as well. i know i was also asked by them to not ask questions that leads to them not being true. and i was doing this at a young age, i forced to join at 8 years old by my ex step dad and at that time yes i was only asking to learn more, but now i dont ask i research my own to find truth.

first know it was the military that made freedom of religion possible, if all it took was the pleading and protesting then hitler was not a military leader history made him out to be, and would have not killed so many people.

The military can't possibly give freedom(all over the world), the JW's are worldwide you can't suggest that the militaries victories gave them freedom all over the world. Even after world wars 1 and 2 the JW's still had to plead for freedom of religion to the Gov's in U.S. and other countries. Why would they have to do that if the U.S. military gave them the freedom? What people plead for and protest is considered by the Gov, depending on the type of Gov and what x group pleads for is what determines Gov's decisions and how long it takes for them to grant it.  As for Hitler he did what every Gov today does!!!!! Look after their own country before others and attack those that don't support or call them out for hypocrisy or something unjust(sedition). He was just more extreme and far more racist. Let's just see how racist and evil he is maybe it will have High school FC users asking what about the non Jewish people Hitler attacked!!!!!!!!!

Who Were the Five Million Non-Jewish Holocaust Victims?
Of the 11 million people killed during the Holocaust, six million were Polish citizens. Three million were Polish Jews and another three million were Polish Christians and Catholics. Most of the remaining mortal victims were from other countries including Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Ukraine, Russia, Holland, France and even Germany.

For Their Race They Were Executed
Like the Jews, the Rom Gypsies were chosen for total annihilation just because of their race. Even though Jews are defined by religion, Hitler saw the Jewish people as a race that he believed needed to be completely annihilated. Like the Jews, the Rom Gypsies also were a nomadic people that were persecuted throughout history. Both groups were denied certain privileges in many European countries. The Germans believed both the Jews and the Gypsies were racially inferior and degenerate and therefore worthless. Like the Jews, the Gypsies were also moved into special areas set up by the Nazis. Half a million Gypsies, almost the entire Eastern European Gypsy population, was wiped out during the Holocaust.

Sterilization for Black Children
Prior to World War I, there were very few dark-skinned people of African descent in Germany. But, during World War I, black African soldiers were brought in by the French during the Allied occupation. Most of the Germans, who were very race conscious, despised the dark-skinned "invasion". Some of these black soldiers married white German women that bore children referred to as "Rhineland Bastards" or the "Black Disgrace". In Mein Kampf, Hitler said he would eliminate all the children born of African-German descent because he considered them an "insult" to the German nation.

"The mulatto children came about through rape or the white mother was a *bleep*," Hitler wrote. "In both cases, there is not the slightest moral duty regarding these offspring of a foreign race." The Nazis set up a secret group, Commission Number 3, to organize the sterilization of these "Rhineland Bastards" to keep intact the purity of the Aryan race. In 1937, all local authorities in Germany were to submit a list of all the mulattos. Then, these children were taken from their homes or schools without parental permission and put before the commission. Once a child was decided to be of black descent, the child was taken immediately to a hospital and sterilized. About 400 children were medically sterilized -- many times without their parents' knowledge.

Priests and Pastors Died for Their Beliefs.
Hitler wanted not only to conquer all of Europe, but Hitler also wanted to create a new religion and to replace Jesus Christ as a person to be worshipped. Hitler expected his followers to worship the *bleep* ideology. Since Catholic priests and Christian pastors were often influential leaders in their community, they were sought out by the Nazis very early. Thousands of Catholic priests and Christian pastors were forced into concentration camps. A special barracks was set up at Dachau, the camp near Munich, Germany, for clergymen. A few survived; some were executed, but most were allowed to die slowly of starvation or disease.

All the above is from this website http://www.holocaustforgotten.com/non-jewishvictims.htm

The last one is interesting because Hitler turned on one of it's biggest supporters from religion!!!!!!!!!!!(http://emperors-clothes.com/vatican/cpix.htm)

Don't think for a second any of the stuff above can't happen in any Gov especially the last one where the Gov turns on religion!!!!!!!(Revelation 17:15-16) I think that even Atheists agree this is going to happen.

and for you to not support everything that JW says or preach, is wrong in there eyes as well. i know i was also asked by them to not ask questions that leads to them not being true. and i was doing this at a young age, i forced to join at 8 years old by my ex step dad and at that time yes i was only asking to learn more, but now i dont ask i research my own to find truth.

Some in the JW's view them as the final authority unforunately, others view them(the leadership) as fallible men trying there best to give people practical advice on bible matters. I'm in the latter and you can't please everyone. In the end it's my life and the reason i'm with is because of there worldwide unity despite racial, economic, social and even tribe divisions in some countries. It's true the churches have these traits but are the churches even within the same denomination the same in all the aspects I listed in every country? Your questions were causing doubt which unforunately overzealous people will interpret the wrong way. I'm glad I have my Uncle who really searches this stuff out even though he's a reinstated JW and he does do research on the JW history. How did your ex
step dad force you? Did he "drag you to the halls every week"? My mom who never goes to the meetings anymore(Barack became president and now she pretty much isolated herself from every race but black people) did that to me
when I was 8.

and i am not sure what the last part was to mean, i know you claim it talks of the devil the people, the society and all that. but i dont believe there is the devel per say.   meaening i believe the devel exists but only in ourselves, not as christianity say he does exists.

I would love to discuss how you come to that conclusion(in another thread) especially since this will have people talking to themselves in the bible. Also may I know if I can do a question and answer of your belief system in another thread?

If you can go back to my previous post and read Revelation 13 again and ask any questions you may have.

[travislang]

yes i know it was more then the JW or the jews being tormented by hitler, but i wasnt trying to drag out the post by naming everyone. im not totally retarded here. but yes the mitary can be everywhere, that is why we station our troops everywhere.

and i also just want to thank you so very much, you have opened my eyes now, the thing i thought i was fighting for and was doing wasnt never possible of me to do. the mitary cant give freedoms, so i was wrong, i wasnt fighting to keep our freedoms from being threatened or to help free other countryies as well. thank you for telling me everything i believed i was doing was for the good wasnt.

and since i wont go back to what i believe is to be a hypricritical cult of a religion, i will have to face i am going to hell and meet the devil. as christianity says i will.

but before i do meet him i have one thing else to say. if jehovah is so all powerful and can do anything, then if he does exist i dare him to just strike me down where i sit.


.............................................oops im still here i wander

[shernajwine]

if jehovah is so all powerful and can do anything, then if he does exist i dare him to just strike me down where i sit.


.............................................oops im still here i wander

God can do anything, but he doesn't want to strike you where you sit because he loves you. 

[teflonfanatic]

if jehovah is so all powerful and can do anything, then if he does exist i dare him to just strike me down where i sit.


.............................................oops im still here i wander

God can do anything, but he doesn't want to strike you where you sit because he loves you. 

8 However, let this one fact not be escaping YOUR notice, beloved ones, that one day is with Jehovah as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day. 9 Jehovah is not slow respecting his promise, as some people consider slowness, but he is patient with YOU because he does not desire any to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance. (2 Peter 3:8-9)

@Travis: Make I start a question and answer thread about your beliefs?

[travislang]

sure you can start if you wish

[dokkbudd]

The funny thing is.... out of EVERYONE who would take a "position" on this... if asked..... could not VERIFY ANYTHING..... but "their own" PERSONAL EXPERIENCES n BELIEFS!!! KNOW THIS FOLKS...... anything you cannot verify is FICTION to anyone else...... there is absolutely NO REASON to get "upset" or "worked up" about anyones FICTIONAL OPINIONS!!!

When a group of people have spent the last 500 plus years trying to force their "fiction" onto your people and the same "fictional" beliefs are directly responsible for the deaths of in excess of 10 million of your Relations, then tell me there is nothing to get worked up about. Until then you do you, let everyone else do themselves and try to limit your "opinion" about issues you have absolutely no clue of.

Before I end up making any..... well.... ASSUMPTIONS.... I'd try to VERIFY even your seemingly emotional STATEMENTS.... with a few mere questions of course!!!!

Are you suggesting that the actual attempt to "force" fiction on a group of people... is "RESPONSIBLE" for anyone's death...?

Are you suggesting that any of my OWN opinions.... do NOT "let everyone do themselves".... or that they somehow pass any judgements...?

What "issue"...  are you suggesting I have "no clue of" to begin with...?

Are you suggesting that creating a "limit" for my OPINIONS... will in some way create some type of REMEDY.....??
If so..... What are the DAMAGES caused by a "limitless" opinion... that would need such a remedy...?


Whatever your answers are.... wouldn't it seem quite "insane" for me to JUDGE your standing... place a LABEL(right/wrong) on it... and decide to cause you DAMAGES behind it...?

Why exactly is it NOT ok for ANYONE to have these same opinions of RELIGION....?

Do even their opinions cause any DAMAGES to anyone.... by just being DIFFERENT???


Is it possible that it's NOT the belief/opinion itself that "damages" someone... but the ACTIONS taken "in the name" of these beliefs/opinions...??

What is the IMPORTANCE in trying to convince someone else of your beliefs...??

Is it possible that the VIOLENCE that may occur due to a "difference of opinion".... may have an original MOTIVE based on CONTROL....??

Is it possible that NITHER opinion or belief system or any RELIGION is NECESSARY for having an original motive for CONTROL....?

Is it possible that many people have placed BLAME(judgement) on different opinions... for many UNDESIREABLE EVENTS and MOTIVES.... that needed only human will....?



-jussathought-

Ok Dorkbudd, that made my head hurt trying to understand what you were asking in some of them questions, but I will answer a few but briefly for now as I had oral surgery today and really don't feel up to lengthy debate at this time.

yes
yes
genocide
no and n/a

the rest will have to wait for another time

I understand..... perhaps YOUR THINKING isn't adequate to expand beyond what you're "told".... verbally OR WRITTEN. It's not that uncommon. Society has LONG been CONDITIONED to "take direction" in their "thinking" and "learning"..... from some OTHER PERSON who belives they "know truth" and YOU DON'T!!!

Here is a more SIMPLE question for you then.....

How much of what you "know" and "stand behind" can YOU VERIFY YOURSELF...
(excluding someones else's OPINION.... verbal OR WRITTEN)

-thinkaboudid-

[gaylasue]

The Lord allows all to have a free will.  As for me, I have placed my trust and faith in what the Lord says through His might instruction book, The Holy Bible.  He has a plan for me and I believe all that He has promised and pray for those who can't/won't allow the Holy Spirit to open the Truth to their hearts.

[madeara]

I agree.  Jesus wants you to accept Him as your Savior.  He loved the world so much that He died for our sins on the cross.