The thread for those who don't know the trinity.

[jcribb16]

Once the Holy Spirit was given as our Comforter and Jesus went to be with His Father, there wasn't the need for the visions. Everything had been fulfilled up to that point. We also have the Bible to help us understand many things and questions of today.

[teflonfanatic]

The visions in the book of Acts and Revelation was AFTER Jesus went to heaven and they received the holy spirit as the comforter. However I agree they served their purpose and we only need the bible now.  The question still stands however which is why is the holy spirit not seen in visions?

[jcribb16]

If there are no need for visions in today's world, then the question is answered and should not still stand.  We need to remember, too, that some things are not for us to know (at least not now) because God's mind is higher than ours. That may be something you will find out when He comes again.

[shernajwine]

Interesting discussion. I am personally a Oneness believer myself. I'll quote James K Roberts:

Jesus Christ possessed a dual nature. He was the only begotten Son of God, there has never been anyone like him before or since. One of the strong points of Trinitarian doctrine is its easy explanation of Christ's relationship with his Father. From the Trinitarian view, this is just two Persons of the Godhead interacting. Since this view defines the Father and the Son as two different Persons of the Godhead, it is easy to accept the interaction of two persons when we read of Jesus praying to the Father or speaking of Him. That is just the way any other two persons would interact, and it makes the Trinitarian explanation seem very plausible. But Jesus was not just exactly like every other person. We are born with just a human nature, but Jesus had both a human and Divine nature. This being so, another explanation is very possible and the Trinitarian view makes no use of it whatsoever. On the other hand, Oneness theology says that Jesus prayed as a human; he spoke as human when he referred to having a Father and a mother. God does not have parents, He is self-existent, but the man Christ had a Father and mother. Jesus prayed because as a human he needed to pray. His Diety did not need to pray. We never see the Father praying to the Holy Spirit, or the Holy Spirit praying to the FAther, or either the Holy Spirit or the FAther praying to the Son.http://www.wupc.org/downloads/OnenessVsTrinity.pdf

There is some good information in that article and it even clarified some things for me that I didn't quite understand. Check it out. Hope it helps.

[jcribb16]

Thanks much, Sherene!  Also, it's great to "see" you again, in here!

[teflonfanatic]

If there are no need for visions in today's world, then the question is answered and should not still stand.  We need to remember, too, that some things are not for us to know (at least not now) because God's mind is higher than ours. That may be something you will find out when He comes again.

I was referring to visions back in bible times but since it's not relevant today i'll let it pass.

My next question is who are the anointed ones or saints according to God sons or brothers?

[shernajwine]

Thanks much, Sherene!  Also, it's great to "see" you again, in here!

Lol, I needed a break Julie. Had to go through some stuff in my "real" life.

My next question is who are the anointed ones or saints according to God sons or brothers?

I don't really know what that means. I believe that all people who pick up their cross and follow Christ have the potential to be anointed. When you submit your vessel to the Holy Spirit to be used of God then you are anointed. And nobody is a saint, we are all sinners saved by grace. I don't know if that answers your question because I didn't quite understand the meaning, but that is my belief anyway.

[Annella]

If there are no need for visions in today's world, then the question is answered and should not still stand.  We need to remember, too, that some things are not for us to know (at least not now) because God's mind is higher than ours. That may be something you will find out when He comes again.

I was referring to visions back in bible times but since it's not relevant today i'll let it pass.

My next question is who are the anointed ones or saints according to God sons or brothers?

Don't want to take this off topic, but visions are most certainly for today and do happen.  While they are mostly of a personal nature to the individual, they can be given to leadership for the edification of the body or warn of things to come, etc.  Visions or "waking dreams" are spoke of in the Bible in the Old and New Testaments.

Acts 2:17-18
And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: and on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy.

[jcribb16]

I think in my own limited way of thinking, I'm trying to say that there are no visions of the Holy Spirit itself. I should have clarified that more but I was thinking it and not explaining what I was really meaning. I agree with Acts regarding visions in the last days, which I believe are closer than we even believe.

[Annella]

I think in my own limited way of thinking, I'm trying to say that there are no visions of the Holy Spirit itself. I should have clarified that more but I was thinking it and not explaining what I was really meaning. I agree with Acts regarding visions in the last days, which I believe are closer than we even believe.

Ah, gotcha.

[teflonfanatic]

Thanks much, Sherene!  Also, it's great to "see" you again, in here!

Lol, I needed a break Julie. Had to go through some stuff in my "real" life.

My next question is who are the anointed ones or saints according to God sons or brothers?

I don't really know what that means. I believe that all people who pick up their cross and follow Christ have the potential to be anointed. When you submit your vessel to the Holy Spirit to be used of God then you are anointed. And nobody is a saint, we are all sinners saved by grace. I don't know if that answers your question because I didn't quite understand the meaning, but that is my belief anyway.

Somewhere in the bible Jesus says that anyone who dies for his sake is MY mother, brother, sister and father.(i'll get the verse later) Whether Jesus meant this figuratively or literally this would mean God has mothers, brothers and fathers.

[shernajwine]

Somewhere in the bible Jesus says that anyone who dies for his sake is MY mother, brother, sister and father.(i'll get the verse later) Whether Jesus meant this figuratively or literally this would mean God has mothers, brothers and fathers.

You will have to find the scripture because I don't find any that have the wording that you are using....MY....

This is the closest scripture I could find with that context, and obviously, here, Jesus is not saying that anyone is his father mother brother etc.

Matthew 10:37-39 (NIV) "Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; 38 and anyone who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39 Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it."

[teflonfanatic]

Somewhere in the bible Jesus says that anyone who dies for his sake is MY mother, brother, sister and father.(i'll get the verse later) Whether Jesus meant this figuratively or literally this would mean God has mothers, brothers and fathers.

You will have to find the scripture because I don't find any that have the wording that you are using....MY....

This is the closest scripture I could find with that context, and obviously, here, Jesus is not saying that anyone is his father mother brother etc.

Matthew 10:37-39 (NIV) "Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; 38 and anyone who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39 Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it."

I screwed that up a bit. I was on the right track though the verse is Matthew 12:46-50, in that passage Jesus says people who do the will of his father is the same as my mother, brother and sister.

"Restating my question"

Are we brothers or sons of God?

[shernajwine]

Somewhere in the bible Jesus says that anyone who dies for his sake is MY mother, brother, sister and father.(i'll get the verse later) Whether Jesus meant this figuratively or literally this would mean God has mothers, brothers and fathers.

You will have to find the scripture because I don't find any that have the wording that you are using....MY....

This is the closest scripture I could find with that context, and obviously, here, Jesus is not saying that anyone is his father mother brother etc.

Matthew 10:37-39 (NIV) "Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; 38 and anyone who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39 Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it."

I screwed that up a bit. I was on the right track though the verse is Matthew 12:46-50, in that passage Jesus says people who do the will of his father is the same as my mother, brother and sister.

"Restating my question"

Are we brothers or sons of God?

NASB : Matthew 12:46-50
46While He was still speaking to the crowds, behold, His mother and brothers were standing outside, seeking to speak
to Him. 47Someone said to Him, “Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside seeking to speak to You.”
48But Jesus answered the one who was telling Him and said, “Who is My mother and who are My brothers?” 49And
stretching out His hand toward His disciples, He said, “Behold My mother and My brothers! 50For whoever does the will
of My Father who is in heaven, he is My brother and sister and mother.”

I think the point here is that faith in Christ supersedes family ties. It's the same as the bible referring to the "bride" of Christ. Was Jesus married? No, the church is his bride...it's a metaphor. Jesus' point was, whoever does the will of my Father, they are my family.

[teflonfanatic]

Somewhere in the bible Jesus says that anyone who dies for his sake is MY mother, brother, sister and father.(i'll get the verse later) Whether Jesus meant this figuratively or literally this would mean God has mothers, brothers and fathers.

You will have to find the scripture because I don't find any that have the wording that you are using....MY....

This is the closest scripture I could find with that context, and obviously, here, Jesus is not saying that anyone is his father mother brother etc.

Matthew 10:37-39 (NIV) "Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; 38 and anyone who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39 Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it."

I screwed that up a bit. I was on the right track though the verse is Matthew 12:46-50, in that passage Jesus says people who do the will of his father is the same as my mother, brother and sister.

"Restating my question"

Are we brothers or sons of God?

NASB : Matthew 12:46-50
46While He was still speaking to the crowds, behold, His mother and brothers were standing outside, seeking to speak
to Him. 47Someone said to Him, “Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside seeking to speak to You.”
48But Jesus answered the one who was telling Him and said, “Who is My mother and who are My brothers?” 49And
stretching out His hand toward His disciples, He said, “Behold My mother and My brothers! 50For whoever does the will
of My Father who is in heaven, he is My brother and sister and mother.”


I think the point here is that faith in Christ supersedes family ties. It's the same as the bible referring to the "bride" of Christ. Was Jesus married? No, the church is his bride...it's a metaphor. Jesus' point was, whoever does the will of my Father, they are my family.

I see now and I fully understand. I still think it's a conflict for any part of the Godhead to have mothers or fathers over them even if it's figurative(Jesus is part of the Godhead).

My next question is can God be exalted or be a prophet if he is already the most high?(Psalms 83:18)

P.S. Jesus is the son of the most high and not the most high himself(Luke 1:32)