I don't believe in the Devil or Hell

[jcribb16]

Quote from Falconer:

Well the whole age thing-- definitely. That goes without saying. But I've been reading a bit of it via http://www.revelationbibleprophecy.org/index.html and...I'm still not seeing anything here that supports any legitimate prophecy. All I really see here are vague examples involving beasts that are on par with Nostradamus's work. Sorry if it sounds like ridicule, but these could be interpreted as anything. What passages make you believe this; which ones stand out the most for you that have thick and unquestionable ties to actual events?


Revelation 1:18 “I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell [Hades] and of death.”

He that liveth, was dead, alive forever - This is a clear description of Jesus who lived on earth, died for the sins of mankind and then rose to live for ever more. Death has no more dominion over Him. (Romans 6:9)
(courtesy of your link you used:  http://www.revelationbibleprophecy.org/revelation1.html)

That's all for now. Things to do.

[Annella]

Falconer......next time your at the Doc's for one thing or another, ask him or her, if there are any documented cases of healing. Doesn't hurt to ask.

Here's my favorite prophesy verses:

I Thessalonians 4:16-18

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God; and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air; and so shall we ever be with the Lord.  Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

[bigedshult]

If u don't believe in the Devil then u do know God do u .if there is no evil then is the god or his son  .if there is no god then there is no people.
d

[jcribb16]

Falconer......next time your at the Doc's for one thing or another, ask him or her, if there are any documented cases of healing. Doesn't hurt to ask.

Here's my favorite prophesy verses:

I Thessalonians 4:16-18

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God; and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air; and so shall we ever be with the Lord.  Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

[jordandog]

Quote from Annella:

Or the fact that she just doesn't agree with miracle healing....not exactly research, even though she posted a lot of bulbous words that actually said nothing except that she didn't believe in it.  There is documentation in the medical community that lend proof to miracle healing.  What you want to do (with jdog) is try to explain those away with your attempt to cloud the issue with all your explanations of: well maybe they didn't actually have that disease, etc., etc.

Please tell me what 'bulbous' words are, because that is NOT a description that can be applied to words - check a dictionary some time why don't you. I stated there were things that can not be explained. There are people who have recovered from diseases and the result/cause is listed as "idiopathic" which means of an unknown cause or source, just as a disease can be "idiopathic" meaning we do NOT know what caused it. I told you what sources I used to search for this medical documentation of miracle healings. These are sources YOU have no way to research through, so how dare you say I posted "I didn't believe in it" when I HAVE said, several times, there are things I and no one could explain that have been witnessed. You are the one claiming there is documentation of miracles, so YOU need to show the proof! If it is there, then bring it on and I will most definitely share it with my colleaques. I am sure they would LOVE to know about them and would hire all of you to come in a cure our patients. Falconer covered some of this in his reply to you below, which I quoted. As he said, you are the one clouding the issue with all your 'mysticism', blathering on about bible verses and scripture. Sorry, but that won't get you a license to practice medicine or a DEA number to prescribe medications. I know I can become a pastor online, can you become a medical practioner online?? psshh

If you are going to make claims, then you better back them up with something, 'buster' - LOL. It's people like you that are so very dangerous to all the desperate, ill people out there. If you don't care what I have to say, then stop spreading all the BS about healing people because I will not sit by and let it go. If you ARE going to address what I write, please take the time to address what I actually write and not what you think I write.

Quote from Falconer:

There is no documentation in the medical community for saying faith healing is true. There are flukes, and that positive thinking does help, but that's about it. If miracle healing were true with truly-faithful christians, not one of them would be disabled or have any untreatable disease. Can you back up this claim? Because I've seen these disabled followers who still think this stuff is legit. And you're the one clouding the issue here because of your mysticism. Not me. I want support of your claim, and you have nothing that supasses any elementary skepticism.

Falconer, please do ask your doctor about the miracle healings he has seen documented and then get me the databases, journals, records, etc., so that I can see them also!

[jordandog]

@Annella:
As for the post about the Trinity not being in the Bible? I used words from CARM and THEY used scripture to back up THEIR writing. Besides, if I want to use A.A. Milne and Winnie The Pooh or anything else, including the Bible, in a post I WILL. Check your attitude - last time I looked, you weren't running FC or this Forum.

[Falconer02]

Falconer......next time your at the Doc's for one thing or another, ask him or her, if there are any documented cases of healing. Doesn't hurt to ask.

I'm at work right now, and fortunately their is a health careers area I visit during work. I'll ask some of the nurses I know if they're there today.

Falconer, please do ask your doctor about the miracle healings he has seen documented and then get me the databases, journals, records, etc., so that I can see them also!

lol yeah...I don't expect anything. Too bad it's not real.  

Jcribb-- I'll write back to you soon about the prophecy stuff.

[Annella]

@Annella:
As for the post about the Trinity not being in the Bible? I used words from CARM and THEY used scripture to back up THEIR writing. Besides, if I want to use A.A. Milne and Winnie The Pooh or anything else, including the Bible, in a post I WILL. Check your attitude - last time I looked, you weren't running FC or this Forum.

Uh, last time I checked you weren't running FC either......so what was that statement about?  Since you have stated that you DON'T believe the Bible or God, what is the big deal about using the Bible to post anything to prove your statement?  Unless you want to retract that....and now say that you do believe in God and the Bible?

No, CARM and THEY did not use scripture to back up the "Trinity" or IT being in the Bible.  I gave a lot of scripture to back up that the word "trinity", or the concept that it's used, is not in the Bible.

Check your attitude!  You do use a lot of unnecessary words to say nothing except to rag on whatever.  I get tired of your ranting for nothing.  What has my calling as an Evangelist have to do with being a medical practitioner? You boast all the time how you are so medically versed.  Who cares. Your not "all that".  Nobody is.  Get a grip on reality, and realize you are just a person on the other side of a keyboard having a discussion....not a trial about who is who and what they do.  I use to be an Accountant when I worked before going into the Ministry.  Big deal!

Talk to any Doc that has been practicing for any length of time, and they will tell you that people get healed. I don't have to prove nothing to you jdog.  What makes you think that I can gain access to peoples personal medical records and databases?  You know that falls under the privacy act, and not available to me.  There are medical professionals that can vouch that people get healed.

Guess what jdog, I don't really care if you believe it or not.  I've seen it with my own eyes, and someday you are going to have to give account for your unbelief.  Just go on in your own pride and smugness.  Your full of yourself. It's sickening.

[sflynt]

Your full of yourself. It's sickening.

Funny, thats how I feel about you. And its quite obvious, I'm not the only one.

[Annella]

@Annella:
As for the post about the Trinity not being in the Bible? I used words from CARM and THEY used scripture to back up THEIR writing. Besides, if I want to use A.A. Milne and Winnie The Pooh or anything else, including the Bible, in a post I WILL. Check your attitude - last time I looked, you weren't running FC or this Forum.

This was the discussion below

Quote from: jordandog on January 19, 2011, 06:55:36 am
So the word 'Trinity' is NOT in the Bible, who cares? It all comes down to what you believe is 'correct' vs what others believe is 'correct'. Just because you/anyone might disagree and think that your interpretation is "the only one that is valid because of how YOU choose to interpret scripture in your particular sect" does NOT make it truth. The following is courtesy of CARM - a site that is quite willing to be openminded and not locked into the tunnel vision that far too many are.

Some critics of the Trinity doctrine claim that since the word "trinity" is not found in the Bible it isn't true.  Furthermore, some assert that if God wanted us to believe in the Trinity He would have stated the doctrine clearly.

First of all, it is illogical to claim that since the word "Trinity" is not found in the Bible that its concept is not taught therein.  This kind of objection usually demonstrates a prejudice against the teaching of the Trinity.  Instead, the person should look to God's word to see if it is taught or not.

Second, there are many biblical concepts that people believe in that don't have a specific word describing them used in the Bible.  For example, the word "bible" is not found in the Bible, but we use it anyway to describe the Bible.  Likewise, "omniscience" which means "all-knowing," "omnipotence" which means "all-powerful," and "omnipresence" which means "present everywhere," are words not found in the Bible either, but we use them to describe the attributes of God.  We don't have to see a specific word in the Bible in order for the concept it describes to be true.

Following are other words that the Bible does not use but the concepts are mentioned. (my words here -I note there are many that have been written to death and used as 'point makers' by certain posters.):

•Atheism is the teaching that there is no God.  "The fool has said in his heart, 'There is no God'" (Psalm 14:1).
•Divinity which means divine quality or godlike character.  Yet, we speak of the godlike quality of the Lord God. See Psalm 139.
•Incarnation which means the word (God) who became flesh.  Yet, this is definitely taught in the Bible (John 1:1,14).
•Monotheism is the teaching that there is only one God (Isaiah 43:10; 44:eight).
•Rapture is the teaching that the Christians who are alive when Jesus returns will be caught up to meet Him in the air (1 Thess. 4:16-18).
So, to say that the Trinity isn't true because the word isn't in the Bible is an invalid argument.  Furthermore, to say that if God wanted us to believe in the Trinity He would have clearly taught it in scripture, is also an invalid argument.  Something does not have to be clearly formulated in the Bible to be valid.  Not all things taught in the Bible are perfectly clear.  Take a look at the book of Revelation.  It contains many things that are cryptic that must be interpreted after examining all of the Bible.  Even then, there are disagreements as to what some things mean.  Yet, we know that the truths there are true whether or not we discover them.

Nevertheless, there are scriptures that demonstrate a Trinitarian aspect.

•Matt. 28:19, Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
•2 Cor. 13:14, The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all.
•Eph. 4:4-7, There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all.  7 But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ’s gift.
•Jude 20-21, "But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith; praying in the Holy Spirit; 21 keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting anxiously for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to eternal life."

*This post might fall under off-topic, but I have seen the 'non-trinity' argument one too many times.*

Quote from Annella
Matthew 1:18  Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise:  When as His mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.

The Holy Ghost?  Isn't God the Father?  Yes, and the Holy Ghost also.

I Timothy 3:16  And without controversy, great is the mystery of Godliness:  God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of Angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into Glory.

Is this scripture about God or Jesus?  Both, they are ONE.

Colossions 2:8-10  Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. For in Him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him, which is the head of all principality and power.

So in Jesus body is the Godhead?  Yes!

II Corinthians 4:3-4  But if our Gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world (satan) hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the Glorious Gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Jesus is the IMAGE of God?  Yes, looking at Jesus, is seeing God!

Colossians 1:12-15  Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us unto the kingdom of his dear Son: In whom we have redemption through His blood, even the forgiveness of sins: Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

Jesus is the image of the invisible God?  Yes!

John 1:1-3  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.  The same was in the beginning with God.  All things were made by Him; and without Him was not any thing made. V 14: And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

The Word was God, and was made flesh?  Yes!

Isaiah 43: 10-11  Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.  I, even I, am the LORD; and besides me there is no Savior.

But I thought Jesus was our Savior?  God, who is Jesus, is our Savior.

Matthew 28:19  Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.

The Name (singular) of the 3 titles.  I'm a mother, preacher, woman, teacher, Christian, daughter, etc., but none of those titles is my name.

Acts 2:37-38  Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?  Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the Name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

That's why I'm baptized in Jesus Name, which is the Name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

Revelation 4:2  And immediately I was in the Spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.

Only 1 throne, and only ONE sat upon it.

Revelation 1:17-18  And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:  I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive forevermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Jesus saying he is the first and the last?  Only God is Alpha and Omega (read Isaiah 43:10-11 again above)


In laymens terms:  God made himself a body to reconcile man unto himself.  God is invisible, and when we see Jesus, we will see the image of God in heaven through Jesus Christ.  Or those who are saved.  When Jesus is noted as God's son, it is referring to his flesh.  Some scriptures refer to all 3 attributes (body, soul, spirit) but they are only in Jesus bodily....ONE GOD  the word Jesus in the hebrew means Jehovah Savior, or Jehovah has become our Salvation.

The revelation of who Jesus really is, is spiritual revelation.  You cannot separate the 3.  They crucified Jesus for a reason.  What was it?  Jesus basically told them he was God manifested in the flesh.  They would not accept Jesus as their Messiah, and crucified Him.

I have about 40 more scriptures I can list if anybody wants them.  I can't write them all out. This is a full 3 day seminar on the One God revelation.

[Annella]

Your full of yourself. It's sickening.

Funny, thats how I feel about you. And its quite obvious, I'm not the only one.

Oh I'm crushed.........LOLOLOL

[Annella]

Bulbous: shaped like a bulb; swollen; swelling; bulging.  Growing from or bearing bulbs.

The context I was using it in (Biblically).

II Peter 2:18
For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lust of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean, escaped from them, who live in error.

Jude 16
These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.

[jordandog]

Annella,
Why you bother encouraging other christians on here, when you are part of a belief system that considers itself above the rest and you interpret (and change) scripture to fit the way you want things to be, amazes me. The examples of the Trinity deal come to mind because all you did was post a load of words that you believe countered what the experts at CARM (not me) wrote - amazing. You add to the gospel when it fits your agenda. I think that is horrendously screwed up, a total mindgame, and especially on kids who grow up in the religion. I have 2 very close friends I grew up with who left the UPC, Oneness Pentacostalists, as soon as they were old enough and never looked back. They still carry scars from the mindgames to this day, but have NEVER walked away from god or religion, just from this one. I understand that many Oneness followers also believe you are the only ones who will get into heaven anyway, so maybe that is why I have felt you come across as superior when these discussions get into how everyone views scripture. This has been in the back of my mind since I first saw you declare what your religion actually was. Your religion has been accused of interpreting to fit the O.P. doctrines and theology, even when it is vastly different than other Protestant interpretations. O.P.'s have been charged with spiritual legalism by members of other faiths and have even been referred to as a 'cultlike' group because you are so strict when it comes to appearances, pride, superiority, and you put the laws of the bible, again as you interpret them, over any grace from god. Either everyone follows the rules or they have no chance and a person's own spirit is meant to be broken instead of encouraged. My friends were never allowed to do any of the perfectly innocent things the rest of us did when we were growing up. Add this to the fact that you cannot, or will not, answer anything in your own words like others do (jcribb does), but instead you have to post a mile long list of passages. Do you actually possess a mind of your own anymore? I have a mind and I use it in real time with real actions. Maybe I should try talking people out of cancer, etc., and then I would certainly be less exhausted, would get a LOT more sleep, and would get off the emotional roller coaster because I wouldn't have to worry about any patients. I might even recommend it at the next team meeting or mortality review!

No, I am not "full of myself" and I am not "smug", you may think so, I just know what I know. I also know that my hands and my mind will do a hell of a lot more to help someone who is ill or dying than your constant stream of archaic and unproven statements from a book. The next time you are in need of medical help, say appendicitis or something, don't bother going to a doctor - just talk yourself out of it and let us know how that works out for you.

As far as your post defending YOUR use of 'bulbous' and using it to descibe my words.....are you serious?! That is so far out of context and off the mark, but IS a wonderful example of the legalism I mentioned - you pushed the envelope to try and make that one fit.

[Annella]

Annella,
Why you bother encouraging other christians on here, when you are part of a belief system that considers itself above the rest and you interpret (and change) scripture to fit the way you want things to be, amazes me. The examples of the Trinity deal come to mind because all you did was post a load of words that you believe countered what the experts at CARM (not me) wrote - amazing. You add to the gospel when it fits your agenda. I think that is horrendously screwed up, a total mindgame, and especially on kids who grow up in the religion. I have 2 very close friends I grew up with who left the UPC, Oneness Pentacostalists, as soon as they were old enough and never looked back. They still carry scars from the mindgames to this day, but have NEVER walked away from god or religion, just from this one. I understand that many Oneness followers also believe you are the only ones who will get into heaven anyway, so maybe that is why I have felt you come across as superior when these discussions get into how everyone views scripture. This has been in the back of my mind since I first saw you declare what your religion actually was. Your religion has been accused of interpreting to fit the O.P. doctrines and theology, even when it is vastly different than other Protestant interpretations. O.P.'s have been charged with spiritual legalism by members of other faiths and have even been referred to as a 'cultlike' group because you are so strict when it comes to appearances, pride, superiority, and you put the laws of the bible, again as you interpret them, over any grace from god. Either everyone follows the rules or they have no chance and a person's own spirit is meant to be broken instead of encouraged. My friends were never allowed to do any of the perfectly innocent things the rest of us did when we were growing up. Add this to the fact that you cannot, or will not, answer anything in your own words like others do (jcribb does), but instead you have to post a mile long list of passages. Do you actually possess a mind of your own anymore? I have a mind and I use it in real time with real actions. Maybe I should try talking people out of cancer, etc., and then I would certainly be less exhausted, would get a LOT more sleep, and would get off the emotional roller coaster because I wouldn't have to worry about any patients. I might even recommend it at the next team meeting or mortality review!

No, I am not "full of myself" and I am not "smug", you may think so, I just know what I know. I also know that my hands and my mind will do a hell of a lot more to help someone who is ill or dying than your constant stream of archaic and unproven statements from a book. The next time you are in need of medical help, say appendicitis or something, don't bother going to a doctor - just talk yourself out of it and let us know how that works out for you.

As far as your post defending YOUR use of 'bulbous' and using it to descibe my words.....are you serious?! That is so far out of context and off the mark, but IS a wonderful example of the legalism I mentioned - you pushed the envelope to try and make that one fit.

Really? Anyone can look up the definition and see I didn't stretch anything.

I never add to the Gospel, and I never change scripture. I post it in it's perfect form from the KJV.....not a lot of made up words. You are telling a lie right there.  

Never have I said that any denomination or church for that matter will be the only ones going to heaven....lie again!

Ah, now we are getting down to it.  Your 2 friends or whatever you feel my religion or whomever, has nothing to do with me.  You have an axe to grind, and I'm your target?  LOL  Everything is becoming clear why you have singled me out for your personal verbal onslaught of rubbish.  Now I'm in a cult?  

The Grace of God can keep anybody.  The Lord said:  "My Grace is sufficient".  Also, that "His strength is made perfect in our weakness".  Nobody is superior or better than anybody else.  I've also said this numerous times.

Your post is nothing more than a "stab" at my walk with God, filtered with lies and peppered with false facts, because you have a problem with Oneness religions. Especially with UPC.  News Flash...I'm not UPC....LOL  We went Independent 4 months ago.  However, the doctrine of the UPCI is correct, and we still adhere to it, and it's teachings.  I have many friends in the UPC, and attend most of the conferences and special meetings. They are not a cult, but the fastest growing movement in the US.

For the rest of it.......phhhtttt

[jcribb16]

Oh my goodness, things have really jumped into the extremely hot frying pan in here.  I haven't been well today, and so am just now getting on.

 I would like to say that since Christians believe in God's Word (the Bible), it's only natural that Annella, myself, and others on here would use verses to back ourselves and themselves up when speaking of something at odds with another.  Usually they also write something to explain the scripture, what it means and how it applies to the situation at hand. Unfortunately, since many don't believe in God, nor His Word, the given verses as answers are usually not accepted as any kind of proof, which then causes problems for both sides. Then when ex-believers try to use Scripture it's like it's being used against what the Christian thinks.  If someone doesn't believe in God then why would they want to use God's Word when it's the literal Word of God?  Confusion reigns then, and God is "not the author of confusion."