I don't believe in the Devil or Hell

[jcribb16]

The next quote is the one by Benjamin Franklin:

"In the affairs of the world, men are saved, not by faith, but by the lack of it."



Franklin abandoned his youthful deism in favor of a strong belief in an interventionist God, as reflected by his prayer request during a troubled period of the Constitutional Convention. In a letter dated March 9, 1790, the last letter Franklin ever wrote, he expressed his strong faith in God and the possibility of heaven:

"Here is my Creed: I believe in one God, Creator of the Universe. That he governs it by Providence. That he ought to be worshipped. That the most acceptable Service we render to him is doing good to his other Children. That the soul of Man is immortal, and will be treated with Justice in another Life respecting its conduct in in this. These I take to be the fundamental Principles of all sound Religion, and I regard them as you do in whatever sect I meet with them.
"As to Jesus of Nazareth, my Opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the system of Morals and His Religion, as he left them to us, the best the world ever saw, or is likely to see; but I apprehend it has received various corrupting Changes, and I have, with most of the present Dissenters in England, some doubt as to his Divinity; tho' it is a question I need not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an Opportunity of knowing the Truth with less Trouble. I see no harm in its being believed, if that belief has the good Consequence, as probably it has, of making his Doctrines more respected and better observed; especially as I do not perceive, that the Supreme takes it amiss, by distinguishing the Unbelievers in his Government of the world with any peculiar Marks of his Displeasure."

 http://personal.pitnet.net/primarysources/franklin-stiles.html

[jcribb16]

As for Thomas Paine's quote:
"All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit."

Thomas Paine questioned a lot about differentations in the Bible, and the inerrancy of the Bible.  He was a deist. It also shows us that not all people in government, such as he was back then, believe in God. He made several statements to nonbelief of God. However, there are some other quotes of his that tend to contradict others of his when it came to religion.  Here's a couple of those quotes:

"Reputation is what men and women think of us; character is what God and angels know of us."

"Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man."

[Falconer02]

Might make it a better metaphor if the sun really was the most powerful star in the universe.

Take this woman's advice, Teflon! lolololol

People still deny God even though it's intermingled within many aspects of the United States.  You just proved my point

"Still don't believe my gods exist? Just look around you! Zues and Aphrodite statues everywhere! Built to honor them! Our culture has truly thrived because of these gods! You cannot deny they exist!"
"Maybe the ideas gave the authors inspiration, but...how is that proof of their existence? They're just pretty statues with man-made words and laws under them. "

 

[jcribb16]

Might make it a better metaphor if the sun really was the most powerful star in the universe.

Take this woman's advice, Teflon! lolololol

People still deny God even though it's intermingled within many aspects of the United States.  You just proved my point

"Still don't believe my gods exist? Just look around you! Zues and Aphrodite statues everywhere! Built to honor them! Our culture has truly thrived because of these gods! You cannot deny they exist!"
"Maybe the ideas gave the authors inspiration, but...how is that proof of their existence? They're just pretty statues with man-made words and laws under them. "

 

I do agree that they influence different cultures.  However, you only took part of my comment and left out what I meant in how God is part of so many aspects of the United States.  Zues and Aphrodite are not on our money, in our court systems, and they or their bibles are not used to swear in officials.  They, and any other god, for example, are not included in the quotes and commentaries, etc. of our founding fathers. God, the Father, and His Word (the Bible) are. Whether or not you want to believe it or choose not to acknowledge it, our moral principles are based on Godly morals and principles. 

[amyrouse]

If you really want to know what the founding fathers had in mind for this country when it was created, this is what you need to read:

http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constitution_transcript.html


As for whether they were personally religious?  It doesn't make a difference to me.  The words in the above referenced document are what I hold stock in when it comes to this nation's government.  Interpret them how you want, although I believe they are clear in their intent and purpose.

[sflynt]

For those people who constantly contradict that our God and His Word (Bible) aren't real, think about this. Have you ever thought that if there is no God and no Bible, then why is so much of our country's buildings, monuments, courts, etc. based on that very God you deny?  There are the 10 commandments listed in the courts, the president-to-be (or any other kind of swearing in) has to take his/her oath on the Bible, "In God we trust" is on our money, etc. I know a lot of people don't agree with all of this and want to change it or take it out.  But the fact is, it is there, and yet people still argue about no God.

It was pretty much the first scientific theory ever. The idea of god or gods has always existed as a way to explain the unexplainable. Primitive humans lived in fear and superstition based on what they saw happening in the world. They didn’t know about the cycle of evaporation so they didn’t know why the rain fell. So they created a deity or spirit that lives in the sky and causes it to rain. The Christian God is nothing more than another god in a long line of superstitious creations. I believe it was created to manipulate the masses, to control us, to make us mindless sheep. It's easy to scare people into this kind of thing, especially back then when you got stoned for not following their rules. It was the quickest way to make the people do as they were told. Since they were so scared that they'd burn in hell, it was easy to do.

[queenofnines]

I know God can't be perfect because there is a fault with him from the get go...he loves and wanted to give life, talk about imperfections.

   Bingo!  Marie, this is the smartest thing I've seen you say lately.  Why can't any of the gods man has invented exist?  Because we made the mistake of endowing them with HUMAN qualities.

A perfect god would not need or want ANYTHING.  He/she/it would be just fine and dandy existing.  Therefore, either god isn't perfect (hah!), or god doesn't exist.  Which is more likely, hmm?

Logic...it's a beautiful thing.  Use it to free yourself from your superstitions!

[Willie353]

I beloeve that al a person has to do is look at this wonderful Earth that will tell you there is a God. As far as satan is concerned look at all the evil pronto you have Satan

[queenofnines]

Okay, am I really going to have to be the one who does the epic face palm?

Jcribb, reading what you wrote here makes me angry.  Angry at how religion has robbed your mind in some very crucial ways.  I'm sorry if that sounds harsh, but I cannot just stand by in the face of an "argument" that is so fundamentally false.  And that is not just my opinion; your argument really doesn't stand up as truth at all, and you need to be made aware of this.

Q.  Have you ever thought that if there is no God and no Bible, then why is so much of our country's buildings, monuments, courts, etc. based on that very God you deny?

A. Because Christianity is the idiot mythology that prevailed in this country, plain and simple.  Your argument fails because Muslims could say the very same thing about their god in their country.


Q. There are the 10 commandments listed in the courts, the president-to-be (or any other kind of swearing in) has to take his/her oath on the Bible, "In God we trust" is on our money, etc.

And how is any of this proof of your god??  Man has been forcing his mythology into culture since the Greeks, Romans, Egyptians and before.  Just because your Jesus is the religion of choice right now says NOTHING about the validity of it.  Your argument fails because you apparently don't know the basic history of man's silly superstitions.  

Christianity will come and go and be replaced with another superstition.  It's only a matter of time.


Q. Whether or not you want to believe it or choose not to acknowledge it, our moral principles are based on Godly morals and principles.

A. I expect your kids to be dead then, because surely you stoned them when they became unruly like the Bible commands?  Hell, you should be long gone, too, if you've ever worked on the Sabbath!  ...How are you even on a computer right now?  TRUE Christians are supposed to sell all of their possessions and follow Jesus!


Don't try tell anyone you have the moral high card.  It's beyond hypocritical.

[kezalter]

Your argument fails because Muslims could say the very same thing about their god in their country.

This was the point I was just about to make.  The United States is not the only country in the world and Christianity isn't the only religion that is currently inspriing man-made structures.  Buddhism has inspired many buildings and monuments despite not worshipping a specific creator, and in countries far more populous than the US.  I'm sure there are plenty of other examples in Hinduism, Judaism, Islam, etc.  But I guess since Vishnu and Brahma aren't referenced on our currency that is somehow proof that they are not the true creators?

There are the 10 commandments listed in the courts, the president-to-be (or any other kind of swearing in) has to take his/her oath on the Bible, "In God we trust" is on our money, etc. I know a lot of people don't agree with all of this and want to change it or take it out.  But the fact is, it is there, and yet people still argue about no God.

"In God We Trust" is apparently being taken off some currency, as covered in another thread on this forum.  The Ten Commandments have been taken down from many courthouses.  At least one Congressman takes his oath on the Koran rather than the Bible.  Does this mean that the Christian God is being disproven?  Not really, it just means that people, not deities, are making all the decisions in this realm.

[teflonfanatic]

The sun is the most powerful star in the universe is it always shining? Is it still the most powerful star in the universe when it's not shining. I personally believe the all titles means he's the most high in those areas. For example Almighty means he's the mightiest of the mighty.

You're beating around the bush of my point. Don't blur it with odd metaphors.

Might make it a better metaphor if the sun really was the most powerful star in the universe.   

And what star is the brightest or more powerful then the sun?

[jcribb16]

Quote from queenofnines:
Okay, am I really going to have to be the one who does the epic face palm?

Jcribb, reading what you wrote here makes me angry.  Angry at how religion has robbed your mind in some very crucial ways.  I'm sorry if that sounds harsh, but I cannot just stand by in the face of an "argument" that is so fundamentally false.  And that is not just my opinion; your argument really doesn't stand up as truth at all, and you need to be made aware of this.

You can be angry all you want. It proves my point that certain people that hate any idea of God can't stand to see the truth put before them.  I listed things that are here in America, not other countries.  We are discussing God, not those other gods, in this thread.  My argument is backed up by fact, as listed under some of the quotes, which relates to my point. I don't need to made aware of your disbelief in God and the influence of Him in America.  Your unbelief and apparent hate for anything of God comes through your remarks.

[jcribb16]

For those people who constantly contradict that our God and His Word (Bible) aren't real, think about this. Have you ever thought that if there is no God and no Bible, then why is so much of our country's buildings, monuments, courts, etc. based on that very God you deny?  There are the 10 commandments listed in the courts, the president-to-be (or any other kind of swearing in) has to take his/her oath on the Bible, "In God we trust" is on our money, etc. I know a lot of people don't agree with all of this and want to change it or take it out.  But the fact is, it is there, and yet people still argue about no God.

It was pretty much the first scientific theory ever. The idea of god or gods has always existed as a way to explain the unexplainable. Primitive humans lived in fear and superstition based on what they saw happening in the world. They didn’t know about the cycle of evaporation so they didn’t know why the rain fell. So they created a deity or spirit that lives in the sky and causes it to rain. The Christian God is nothing more than another god in a long line of superstitious creations. I believe it was created to manipulate the masses, to control us, to make us mindless sheep. It's easy to scare people into this kind of thing, especially back then when you got stoned for not following their rules. It was the quickest way to make the people do as they were told. Since they were so scared that they'd burn in hell, it was easy to do.

God is not a superstitious creation. As I said above, some of the founding fathers may not have labled the US as a Christian nation, at the time, but there was a strong agreement that much of the discipline, attitudes, and moral abilities were to be based on Godly principles. 
I do agree with you that humans created deities or spirits or gods to help them explain the unexplainable.  At the same time, the Biblical history from thousands of years past, laid the foundation from the beginning to prepare the way for the Saviour. There was the old law and after Jesus's birth, death, and resurrection, the new law. God began with the creation of this world and it will end with a new heaven and an eternal place of punishment.  God is real.

[queenofnines]

It proves my point that certain people that hate any idea of God can't stand to see the truth put before them.

It does not prove your point because I don't hate any idea of god.  I hate when my fellow woman runs away with ideas that have absolutely zero real backing. 

Our nation running on beliefs that are ultimately false?  Can you not understand how scary that is?

[constance312003]

jcribb16.  I have really enjoyed reading your comments.  It is clear to see that you have the love of God in your heart.  Keep up the remarks.