Corruption and the Biblical Flood...

[Annella]

I did go to the bible right after you said the word replenish because I thought that would of been proof for the dinosaurs being wiped out but it never said replenish where he was talking to adam and eve and about their creation.

I was pretty disappointed I might add that all it said was subdue, be fruitful.

Marieelissa, please go read the Chapter 1 of Genesis!!  In the 27th verse before the 28th verse, God most certainly is talking with Adam and Eve.  Who else would he be talking to???

Genesis 1:27
So God created man in His own image, in the image of God created he them. (28th verse)....And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful and multiply, and replenish the whole earth...etc.....etc. (as quoted above).  

Please read the whole Chapter before posting again.  In fact....read 26-28, where in the 26th verse, God says "lets us make man............

[Annella]

It's also interesting to wonder who or what was on the earth before Adam and Eve, since God told them to be fruitful and replenish the earth?

 Hey Anella---I had wondered about that one before...lol.  I'm kind of surprised you mentioned that one, that's another "taboo" topic around most Believers I know.  (It's not that I'm a "skeptic" trying to put them anyone on the "defensive"... I just like details.)    

On that same note... I've always wondered about Lilith, yet I've never really read much about her.  I can't help but wonder what Annella's take on her story is **hint hint wink wink nudge**

Lilith

"Early theologians had a real problem with the status
of women in regard to Genesis. Here is this supposedly weak creature
twisting Man around her finger and bringing death on the entire
race. A 'logical' answer presented itself in splitting woman into
the Madonna/*bleep* dichotomy. There was even a Biblical basis for
Lilith. Genesis 1:27 reads, 'So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him; male and female he created
them.' Set opposite Genesis 2, in which Adam is created first
and Eve is an afterthought to appease his loneliness, many see
this as evidence that Adam had two wives. "Lilith is this
first wife. Since she was made of the earth, like Adam, she became
proud and refused to lie beneath him during intercourse. This
violated the command to be fruitful and multiply, since she was
not being impregnated. Some traditions hold that she was impregnated
and bore demons from him. The evidence for this is the statement
in Genesis 5:3 'Adam begat a son in his image,' implying there
had been sons not in his image. He pushed the issue of her submission,
and she uttered the Holy Name of God and flew away.

"Adam complained to God and he sent three angels to reason
with her. They found her coupling with fallen angels near the
Red Sea and bearing more demonic children. She refused to return
but promised to spare Adam's children if the names of the angels:
Sanvi, Sansanvi and Semangelaf were written near them. Even today,
some parents will charcoal a magic circle with the words 'Adam
and Eve barring Lilith' on the wall near their baby, and write
the names of the angels on the door.

"Eve was created out of Adam as her replacement. Some
say God let Adam try making the next one, but the creation was
so horrible God destroyed it before even giving it life. An amusing
Victorian story claims a dog ran off with Adam's rib and devoured
it before God found him, so Eve was made using one of the dog's
ribs.

"Lilith did not eat of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good
and Evil, and hence is immortal. She was rewarded for service
by Asmodeus, the demon of lechery, luxuriousness and evil revenge.
She now rules one of the levels of Hell in the company of Namah,
Machlath, and Hurmizah. Her power is over newborn children and
women in childbirth. She may take boys up to the eighth day and
girls up to the twentieth. She is also the mother of the Lilim
or Lilot, the Djinn, and the succubui and incubi. Other Biblical
references: Isaiah 34:14 'night hag' (NIV translates it as 'Desert
creatures' and 'night creatures.' and Psalm 91 'terror by night'."
(from http://www.vampyres.com/faqs/faq13.html)

Lilith is mythological  

So how confusing does this sound?  What are we actually talking about here?  I thought the flood?  I'd put this in with Greek Mythology or some such.  There is nothing Biblical to bear this out.  This is so off the wall it isn't even funny.

I do know that woman (Eve) was deceived, but man (Adam) willingly partook of the fruit.  Eve gave it to Adam and he ate it.  I've heard it also, that Adam didn't know what he was eating because Eve gave it to him slyly. Baloney!!!!

[Annella]

It says be fruitful and increase in number, fill the whole earth and subdue it.

It does not say replenish.

So your going to tear each word apart huh?  What version of the Bible are you reading?  I'm using the KJV, which has been around a lot longer than any other translated version.  I will not have a debate with you on what version your reading, or the wording.  I knew this was what you were going to come back with.  However, believe what you want.  Again, it's not a Salvational issue.  Go read the KJV....the word replenish is there.

[Annella]

I have read that God moving upon the face of the waters was his creating sea creatures. Also God said Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from waters, so before the planet had land it was covered in water. Really, science and the bible do not contradict when it comes to creation. Evolution and the bible contradict but all aspects of evolution are not fact. Such as Abiogenesis and other theories of the first life on earth and it's evolution to our current state.

Also, here is an excerpt from http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/dinosaurs.html about dinosaurs and the bible.

Dinosaurs FAQ

Did dinosaurs and humans coexist?

No. All the dinosaurs were wiped out 65 million years ago by a huge asteroid that impacted near the Yucatan Peninsula. The impact was so devastating that if wiped out 30%-80% of other land-dwelling species, as well as over 50% of plant species.7 This is Scientific American's (August, 1995, page 86) description of the result of a collision of the large asteroid with the earth:

    "Sixty-five million years ago an object somewhat larger than Haley's comet slammed into what is now the coast of Mexico's Yucatan peninsula. The impact gouged a crater 170 kilometers across and launched debris world-wide. As the multitude of tiny ballistic missiles fell beck to earth, meteors filled the sky, and the atmosphere became red-hot. Fires erupted over the earth's surface, but the global inferno was soon followed by persistent darkness."

What about dinosaur along side human footprints?

Carl Baugh made famous the idea that there exist human footprints along side dinosaur ones at the Paluxy Riverbed near Glen Rose, Texas. However, the "human" prints are huge at about 2 feet long. In addition, they are highly filled in so that the prints are not clear at all. However, some of the prints show three separate areas, suggestive that they come from a three-toed dinosaur. We don't see any biblical evidence of three-toed people, so we are guessing that the "human" prints are really just the prints of smaller dinosaurs. In fact, ICR president John Morris admitted in 1986 that the Paluxy footprints are probably not human but are eroded dinosaur footprints (ICR Impact #151).

What about cave drawings showing dinosaurs?

We haven't seen any caveman drawings that suggest they saw dinosaurs. Some of the better drawings allow us to identify now extinct large mammals. However, when one is trying to interpret caveman scribbles, they could be just about anything, including aliens, rockets or Twinkies.

Did Noah take dinosaurs on the ark?

No. There weren't any dinosaurs to take along at that point in time, since they had died 65 million years ago. In fact, since the flood was likely local in extent, Noah probably did not take Polar Bears, penguins, or giraffes.

Here's a good example of even Christians disagreeing.  I believe that the Lord did not create the fish of the sea or fowls of the air until the 5th day of creation of our earth as we know it. (Genesis 1:20-23)

However, I don't believe dinosaurs and man coexisted, or that dinosaurs were on the Ark.  I believe they had their own dispensation of time......do I know for sure??  Nope, because the Bible doesn't spell it out.  How long is the earth's age?  How old is it really?  I don't know.  Was there a similar flood before as in the days of Noah?  Or as Sherene put it, some kind of catastrophic event happened.  Yes, I believe so.  What or how can be analyzed by Science, etc., and can come up with answers that may or may not be correct. 

However, things that did happen in our times and dispensations written in the Word are laid out pretty clear, and what we must do to obtain Salvation.

[Annella]

Please don't take my replies as offensive.  I was trying to answer all postings at once.  Probably not a good thing to do. 

I've had a very sad day, as a close colleague has very few days on this earth because of Cancer.  While I know their destination is assured, losing a great Prayer Warrior in our ranks is acutely felt by us all close to them.  I feel the loss much, as this is a mentor, and someone who's wisdom I drew on many times.

[shernajwine]

So how confusing does this sound?  What are we actually talking about here?  I thought the flood?  I'd put this in with Greek Mythology or some such.  There is nothing Biblical to bear this out.  This is so off the wall it isn't even funny.

I do know that woman (Eve) was deceived, but man (Adam) willingly partook of the fruit.  Eve gave it to Adam and he ate it.  I've heard it that Adam didn't know what he was eating because Eve gave it to him slyly.  Baloney!!!!

LOL, Amy was talking about Lilith so I looked it up. I never heard of her before now.  

[shernajwine]

Please don't take my replies as offensive.  I was trying to answer all postings at once.  Probably not a good thing to do. 

I've had a very sad day, as a close colleague has very few days on this earth because of Cancer.  While I know their destination is assured, losing a great Prayer Warrior in our ranks is acutely felt by us all close to them.  I feel the loss much, as this is a mentor, and someone who's wisdom I drew on many times.

I'm sorry Annella, it's always hard to lose someone close to us 

[Annella]

So how confusing does this sound?  What are we actually talking about here?  I thought the flood?  I'd put this in with Greek Mythology or some such.  There is nothing Biblical to bear this out.  This is so off the wall it isn't even funny.

I do know that woman (Eve) was deceived, but man (Adam) willingly partook of the fruit.  Eve gave it to Adam and he ate it.  I've heard it that Adam didn't know what he was eating because Eve gave it to him slyly.  Baloney!!!!

LOL, Amy was talking about Lilith so I looked it up. I never heard of her before now.  

LOL that makes 2 of us Sherene!  I'd never heard the name either.  Now, after what you posted, sounds like some made up fairy tale with Biblical base for it's plot.

Thank you hon, I'm trying to make arrangements to get down and spend some time with her before God takes her home.

[jcribb16]

Please don't take my replies as offensive.  I was trying to answer all postings at once.  Probably not a good thing to do. 

I've had a very sad day, as a close colleague has very few days on this earth because of Cancer.  While I know their destination is assured, losing a great Prayer Warrior in our ranks is acutely felt by us all close to them.  I feel the loss much, as this is a mentor, and someone who's wisdom I drew on many times.

I'm sorry to hear that, Annella.  I'm glad she's saved.  It's hard when anyone goes through that.

[amyrouse]

Please don't take my replies as offensive.  I was trying to answer all postings at once.  Probably not a good thing to do. 

I've had a very sad day, as a close colleague has very few days on this earth because of Cancer.  While I know their destination is assured, losing a great Prayer Warrior in our ranks is acutely felt by us all close to them.  I feel the loss much, as this is a mentor, and someone who's wisdom I drew on many times.

I am sorry to hear about your friend, Annella.  Sounds like she has lived a life to be celebrated and will be very missed once she is gone.  I find that words do not do much to comfort when losing a loved one, and if we were in closer proximity, I would offer a hug and my hand to hold to you should you wish.  More importantly, though, it seems as though you have the opportunity to hold her hand and hug her now, which means more than any words you may receive from a message board.   

[shernajwine]

I just got my brothers bible because he has the King James Version and it does say replenish...how cool is that. Adam and Eve were told to replenish the earth probably because dinosaurs and all previous creations got wiped out by that asteroid or whatever killed them.

You can't replenish the earth if it was a first time thing...replenish means to make complete and fill again. So something was here before us and I am thinking that is how dinosaurs fit in.

Thanks guys, I am a believer Now (again). I never understood how dinosaurs fit in, now I do....awesome.

marie, I hope you will stay a believer, but I hope you will stay a believer that doesn't fear hell. God doesn't want your fear, He only wants you to love Him.

Also, so many things confused me growing up. I asked so many times about dinosaurs in the bible and where they fit into the history of the world and no body could ever answer me. I had SO MANY questions that were just simply ignored, or I was not to question.

As I have started looking for the answers on my own, it has strengthened my faith because things have started to make sense and fall into place. The only problem is sorting out the nonsense from the fact. It's hard to do because so many people have different interpretations of things, but it's not impossible to get a firm basic understanding of how God created the universe, nature, and man. And having it not contradict with scientific fact.

The big bang was a massive explosion of energy. God said "Let there be light" That's where it all began 

[shernajwine]

 I don't think there was anything (dinosaurs) here on earth before us.   Gen 1: 2 states the earth was "without form and void"---empty.  It was a watery mass without light, how could a dinosaur survive under these conditions?   If dinosaurs were included in Creation then wouldn't they have co-existed with humans?  A big part of the curse at the time of the FALL was physical death, implying nothing was dying before the FALL.  

This would be the concept if you consider that the world and everything in it was created in literal 24 hour days. There is a large group of people that believe that is the case, but that severely contradicts with carbon dating of dinosaur fossils and the record of the first human beings. I believe the word day in Genesis does not refer to a 24 hour day but a time period. And when compared to other times in the bible the original Hebrew word used was used in reference to a period of time not a literal day. (Such as using the expression...The Day of the Dinosaurs.)

That fits with scientific dating of the age of the earth. Each day being billions of years, which fits with dinosaurs existing before man. Also the bible mentions Leviathan, which was probably an ancestor of the original dinosaurs and any other type of large monster creature mentioned in the bible was the same. We still have living ancestors of dinosaurs living with us now, so it's not surprising such creatures are mentioned in the bible.

I don't think talking about dinosaurs specifically in the bible was important to the message and purpose of the story of creation. So we can only speculate, but in light of factual science for the age of earth and severely lacking evidence for a young earth theory. It only makes sense to me to believe that creation lasted billions of years, not 6 days. But that's me.