Corruption and the Biblical Flood...

[SherylsShado]

  I started wondering this week what the animals could have possibly done to have become so corrupt that God (in the Bible) would want to destroy them.  I've been doing some research trying to find a clue and have seen some interesting things.  Some random thoughts--- I read if one thinks the world is "wicked-evil" now...it is NOTHING compared to how evil it was when God sent the flood.  From the Bible  (Genesis 6:4) -  King James Version:   There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare [children] to them, the same [became] mighty men which [were] of old, men of renown.   Same verse but different translation:  New Living Translation ---In those days, and for some time after, giant Nephilites lived on the earth, for whenever the sons of God had intercourse with women, they gave birth to children who became the heroes and famous warriors of ancient times.  and I also read this: The book of Jasher, which is mentioned in the Bible in Joshua 10:13 and 2 Samuel 1.18 says, "After the fallen angels went into the daughters of men, [then] the sons of men taught the mixture of animals of one species with the other, in order to provoke the Lord" (4:18).  The Book of Enoch says that fallen angels not only merged their DNA with women, but that "they began to sin against birds, and beasts, and reptiles, and fish" (7:5; 6)   So now I'm wondering if the dinosaurs could have been genetic mutations that occured by the same (giants and giant animals as well?) ... what do you think?

[Shugavoo]

This is very interesting. Thanks for the insight. Something to bring up at the next Bible study

[jcribb16]

You have raised some very good questions.  It does make you wonder just what was going on enough to kindle God's wrath and decision to bring on the flood.  There's apparently a lot of information many of us don't really know and understand because of the certain books of the Bible that were not included with the King James Version.

[Annella]

God did say that man's heart was exceedingly wicked, and his mind was thinking evil continually.  I've often wondered how far advanced they were before the flood.  Something was terribly wrong, as it repented Him to have made man and beast.  Every time I read that, I pray that I never give Him cause to regret creating me.  There is something about that scripture that makes me so sad.  You mentioned the books of Jasher and Enoch.  I believe they are historical books.  If God wanted them in the Bible, I believe they would be there.  However, we are commanded to be simple concerning evil. There could be actions in those books that God did not want repeated.  I know they are somewhat in detail, and should only be read by those strong in the Faith.  I find them to be a bit contradictory to the Bible in some points.  Since God is not the author of confusion......I digress.

The Bible does mention giants in the land, and the sons of God mating with the women.  I think your right about the DNA being polluted Sheryl, and something perverted with both man and beast, as God was determined to destroy them all.  Since we weren't there (thank goodness), we really don't know what kind of environment existed.  Obviously horrible, or God would not have wiped it completely out (except Noah and his family of course).

I have a Bible with 8 different translations, and it's very interesting how each interpretation is written.  I always use the KJV myself.  

[shernajwine]

That's interesting Sheryl. I always figured the animals were included because they were there, not that they had to have done anything. I really don't think animals can technically, as they are not spirit and have no concept of right or wrong.

Also, in order to fall in line with scientific truth, I don't believe dinosaurs and man co existed. Also I don't believe the flood was global but local. So that God did not destroy everything and everyone on the whole earth. I talked about his on another thread but I'm not trying to start a debate with you about it, just sharing my views.

I have thought that if people were as immoral then as they are today, I don't blame God!

[Annella]

Annella, I prefer & use mostly KJV too but love looking at other translations when looking for things.   Sherna---I had always thought the animals were included because they happened to be there too but I was reading online some Bible verses, mainly  (Gen 1:1) "And God saw every thing that he had made, and behold, it was very good"...  and then only FIVE chapters later (Gen 6: 7, 12) "And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth: both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air: for it repenteth me that I have made them...And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth."   

Yes, that is what I was taking my understanding from also.  However, this is not something I've studied out.  Since it's not a Salvational issue for us today, it's a history account.  God also promised to never destroy the earth with water again, and put the Rainbow in the sky for evidence of this promise.  I have read most articles of finding the remains of the Ark on Mt. Ararat where it landed (Biblically).  Interesting to say the least.

[SarahPunk]

I must say first of all, that I'm quite excited to have found a place where all points of view are expressed. Now, I do believe that humans and dinosaurs co-existed. I find the reason for the dinosaurs destruction by being the bi-product of evil extremely intriguing. It is obviously possible but I never thought of it. I never could quite figure out where the dinosaurs quite fit in. However, it also talks about in Revelation (I don't have my Bible handy at the moment so I'm not sure exactly where in Revelation) the many beasts and monsters that will exist on earth and have existed in hell. Maybe what we call dinosaurs are actually monsters that will resurface at the end of the world. I don't know but maybe it's possible. What do yall think?

[shernajwine]

Annella, I prefer & use mostly KJV too but love looking at other translations when looking for things.   Sherna---I had always thought the animals were included because they happened to be there too but I was reading online some Bible verses, mainly  (Gen 1:1) "And God saw every thing that he had made, and behold, it was very good"...  and then only FIVE chapters later (Gen 6: 7, 12) "And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth: both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air: for it repenteth me that I have made them...And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth."   

Yes Sheryl I know the verses. Here is a link to a website about the "local" theory, if you want to take a look at it. Like I said, I'm not trying to debate you. I have had enough debate with the bible skeptics on this forum to last me a life time lol, I don't want to debate with you and cause division amongst ourselves! But I used to believe the flood was global until I took into account other scientific findings and found that to believe it is global doesn't make sense in light of those other things.

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/localflood.html

[shernajwine]

I agree Sheryl, if we can manage not to offend each other on a difference of belief within our similar area of faith, then it can be fun. I'm just wary of sounding as though I am trying to push anything on anyone, since being accused of it.

Ultimately it doesn't matter to me if you agree with me or not. Believing whether the flood was local or global will not get you into or keep you out of heaven lol. So I'm all up for discussion  , a little burnt out on debate 

[Annella]

I agree Sheryl, if we can manage not to offend each other on a difference of belief within our similar area of faith, then it can be fun. I'm just wary of sounding as though I am trying to push anything on anyone, since being accused of it.

Ultimately it doesn't matter to me if you agree with me or not. Believing whether the flood was local or global will not get you into or keep you out of heaven lol. So I'm all up for discussion  , a little burnt out on debate  

I hear both of you.  Genesis, Chapter 7.  The water rose 15 cubits upward.  Upward from what?  Measured from level ground and/or both level and mountains?  How high were the mountains back then?  I've also heard the theory that for the waters to abate as fast as they did on the whole earth, God would have (at that time), made the North and South Pole (froze the water).  Who knows?  I don't.  However, It's interesting to think about the different scenarios.  As Sherene pointed out though, it's not a Salvational issue, and won't make a bit of difference what the answer is according to our Salvation.    

It's also interesting to wonder who or what was on the earth before Adam and Eve, since God told them to be fruitful and replenish the earth?  God's Spirit moved upon the dark waters of the earth before creating light, firmament, etc.  Was there another flood before that?  Who knows?  None of us really do.

[amyrouse]

It's also interesting to wonder who or what was on the earth before Adam and Eve, since God told them to be fruitful and replenish the earth?

 Hey Anella---I had wondered about that one before...lol.  I'm kind of surprised you mentioned that one, that's another "taboo" topic around most Believers I know.  (It's not that I'm a "skeptic" trying to put them anyone on the "defensive"... I just like details.)   

On that same note... I've always wondered about Lilith, yet I've never really read much about her.  I can't help but wonder what Annella's take on her story is **hint hint wink wink nudge**

[shernajwine]

I have read that God moving upon the face of the waters was his creating sea creatures. Also God said Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from waters, so before the planet had land it was covered in water. Really, science and the bible do not contradict when it comes to creation. Evolution and the bible contradict but all aspects of evolution are not fact. Such as Abiogenesis and other theories of the first life on earth and it's evolution to our current state.

Also, here is an excerpt from http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/dinosaurs.html about dinosaurs and the bible.

Dinosaurs FAQ

Did dinosaurs and humans coexist?

No. All the dinosaurs were wiped out 65 million years ago by a huge asteroid that impacted near the Yucatan Peninsula. The impact was so devastating that if wiped out 30%-80% of other land-dwelling species, as well as over 50% of plant species.7 This is Scientific American's (August, 1995, page 86) description of the result of a collision of the large asteroid with the earth:

    "Sixty-five million years ago an object somewhat larger than Haley's comet slammed into what is now the coast of Mexico's Yucatan peninsula. The impact gouged a crater 170 kilometers across and launched debris world-wide. As the multitude of tiny ballistic missiles fell beck to earth, meteors filled the sky, and the atmosphere became red-hot. Fires erupted over the earth's surface, but the global inferno was soon followed by persistent darkness."

What about dinosaur along side human footprints?

Carl Baugh made famous the idea that there exist human footprints along side dinosaur ones at the Paluxy Riverbed near Glen Rose, Texas. However, the "human" prints are huge at about 2 feet long. In addition, they are highly filled in so that the prints are not clear at all. However, some of the prints show three separate areas, suggestive that they come from a three-toed dinosaur. We don't see any biblical evidence of three-toed people, so we are guessing that the "human" prints are really just the prints of smaller dinosaurs. In fact, ICR president John Morris admitted in 1986 that the Paluxy footprints are probably not human but are eroded dinosaur footprints (ICR Impact #151).

What about cave drawings showing dinosaurs?

We haven't seen any caveman drawings that suggest they saw dinosaurs. Some of the better drawings allow us to identify now extinct large mammals. However, when one is trying to interpret caveman scribbles, they could be just about anything, including aliens, rockets or Twinkies.

Did Noah take dinosaurs on the ark?

No. There weren't any dinosaurs to take along at that point in time, since they had died 65 million years ago. In fact, since the flood was likely local in extent, Noah probably did not take Polar Bears, penguins, or giraffes.

[Annella]

It didn't say replenish...it said subdue.

Busy day.....I just go on.

Marieelissa, when you make comments like this, it shows you don't even go the Bible.  The word "replenish" is mentioned only 2 times in the Bible:

Genesis 1:28
And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.


Genesis 9:1
And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, be fruitful, and multiply, and relpenish the earth.

[Annella]

It's also interesting to wonder who or what was on the earth before Adam and Eve, since God told them to be fruitful and replenish the earth?

 Hey Anella---I had wondered about that one before...lol.  I'm kind of surprised you mentioned that one, that's another "taboo" topic around most Believers I know.  (It's not that I'm a "skeptic" trying to put them anyone on the "defensive"... I just like details.)   

On that same note... I've always wondered about Lilith, yet I've never really read much about her.  I can't help but wonder what Annella's take on her story is **hint hint wink wink nudge**

Lilith

[shernajwine]

It's also interesting to wonder who or what was on the earth before Adam and Eve, since God told them to be fruitful and replenish the earth?

 Hey Anella---I had wondered about that one before...lol.  I'm kind of surprised you mentioned that one, that's another "taboo" topic around most Believers I know.  (It's not that I'm a "skeptic" trying to put them anyone on the "defensive"... I just like details.)   

On that same note... I've always wondered about Lilith, yet I've never really read much about her.  I can't help but wonder what Annella's take on her story is **hint hint wink wink nudge**

Lilith

"Early theologians had a real problem with the status
of women in regard to Genesis. Here is this supposedly weak creature
twisting Man around her finger and bringing death on the entire
race. A 'logical' answer presented itself in splitting woman into
the Madonna/*bleep* dichotomy. There was even a Biblical basis for
Lilith. Genesis 1:27 reads, 'So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him; male and female he created
them.' Set opposite Genesis 2, in which Adam is created first
and Eve is an afterthought to appease his loneliness, many see
this as evidence that Adam had two wives. "Lilith is this
first wife. Since she was made of the earth, like Adam, she became
proud and refused to lie beneath him during intercourse. This
violated the command to be fruitful and multiply, since she was
not being impregnated. Some traditions hold that she was impregnated
and bore demons from him. The evidence for this is the statement
in Genesis 5:3 'Adam begat a son in his image,' implying there
had been sons not in his image. He pushed the issue of her submission,
and she uttered the Holy Name of God and flew away.

"Adam complained to God and he sent three angels to reason
with her. They found her coupling with fallen angels near the
Red Sea and bearing more demonic children. She refused to return
but promised to spare Adam's children if the names of the angels:
Sanvi, Sansanvi and Semangelaf were written near them. Even today,
some parents will charcoal a magic circle with the words 'Adam
and Eve barring Lilith' on the wall near their baby, and write
the names of the angels on the door.

"Eve was created out of Adam as her replacement. Some
say God let Adam try making the next one, but the creation was
so horrible God destroyed it before even giving it life. An amusing
Victorian story claims a dog ran off with Adam's rib and devoured
it before God found him, so Eve was made using one of the dog's
ribs.

"Lilith did not eat of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good
and Evil, and hence is immortal. She was rewarded for service
by Asmodeus, the demon of lechery, luxuriousness and evil revenge.
She now rules one of the levels of Hell in the company of Namah,
Machlath, and Hurmizah. Her power is over newborn children and
women in childbirth. She may take boys up to the eighth day and
girls up to the twentieth. She is also the mother of the Lilim
or Lilot, the Djinn, and the succubui and incubi. Other Biblical
references: Isaiah 34:14 'night hag' (NIV translates it as 'Desert
creatures' and 'night creatures.' and Psalm 91 'terror by night'."
(from http://www.vampyres.com/faqs/faq13.html)

Lilith is mythological