Killing in the name of......

[Annella]

Jcribb and Annella -- I appreciate your responses, really I do, but you didn't answer my question.  I didn't ask if you wanted me to go to hell, I asked if you think solely for being a non-believer, I *deserve* it.  It's a yes or no question.

Do YOU guys think it is right to punish otherwise good people forever on the sole basis of being skeptical of the god claims, OR being in the wrong religion?  Yes or no.  Don't say "only god can judge"; I really want to know if deep in your heart, you think it's morally correct?

I will attempt to answer your question as honestly and biblically as I can.

1. People who have issues and questions with the fact and reality of hell don't realize that their issue lies with Christ Himself.

2. Jesus taught about hell in that we should be willing to give up anything, that comes between Him and us, and accept Him as Lord so we can    
    spend eternity with Him in heaven. We all sin and until any one person acknowledges Him personally, that person is not exempt or free from the  
    wrath of God. Even children are born with a sin nature and will become sinners by choice.

3. "And the greatest sin in the world is to reject the Lord Jesus Christ as Savior." Those who do will spend eternity in hell.  I'm not saying that I like
this or even agree with this, BUT, God created the earth and the heaven and mankind. He made the rules and the consequences and it's not up   to me to say you deserve to go to hell because you won't accept Him. I am saying that if you choose to not accept Him, then unfortunately you made your choice to now spend eternity in hell.

  4. This quote says it better that I can: " The Bible says that God prepared hell for the devil and his demonic cohorts (Matthew 25:41), that He is "...not wishing for any [person] to perish but for all to come to repentance." (II Peter 3:9), and that He has done everything possible to save us from that terrible, terrible place. Yet in the end God will not violate or overrule the deliberate choice of those who consciously and willfully turn away from Him."
   —Daryl E. Witmer of AIIA Institute

Added to that: "Fire burns. Gravity kills. Water drowns. And you can say, "God is love, God is love, God is love," until you're blue in the face. But water will still drown you, fire will burn you, and gravity will kill you, and sin will damn you no matter how much you say about a loving God."

To sum up, I am not your judge and I am not happy that you won't accept Him.  All I can do is pray for you (whether you like it or not), answer as honestly as I can and show proof in whatever way I can.  It's up to you and you only, not me, not your family and/or friends, and above all, not God.

I used some information and helps from http://www.christiananswers.net/q-grace/hell-and-god.html

I didn't have time to read your post Jcribb before posting mine.  I agree wholeheartedly.

Your #3 though....for me, if it's Biblical...I do agree with it.  Liking it is another thing.  However, on that day of Judgment, we will have gloried bodies, and will have the whole mind of Christ and his understanding.  Now, we see through a glass darkly.  Also, He told us that our thoughts are not His thoughts, and our ways are not His ways.  As high as the heavens are from the earth.....our thoughts with God's are different on this earth.  We can't see into men's hearts like God can.  Trying to explain some things with pure understanding is sometimes next to impossible.  However, the Just shall live by Faith.  We have Faith in His Word, and who He is.  We don't have to knit pick apart everything.  We believe that God is a Just God, and in His wisdom He is fair.

We are bound by earth, and our timeline and dispensation.  Someday we WILL understand as He does.

[jcribb16]

Annella, regarding #3, I am going to quote what this site pointed out regarding this remark:
"Can a God of love send anyone to Hell? You might as well ask some other question to make just as much sense. Does God allow disease in the world? Does God allow jails and prisons for some people? Does God allow the electric chair sometimes? Does God allow sin to break homes and hearts? Does God allow war? All of these things are the consequences of sin entering into the world, and in some cases the direct result of man's rebellion, and the result of greed and pride and egotism and hunger for power that doesn't have any use for people--only the desire to get ahead.

This is the incredible fruit of sin. Sin brings suffering into the world. There's no way of getting around it. And the greatest sin in the world is to reject the Lord Jesus Christ as Savior.

We have our catalog of sins. We have rape and incest and murder ; and we have them all cataloged and classified--but there isn't one of them (or even put them all together in one big hunk) that comes close to the sin of keeping Jesus Christ out of your life. Did Jesus say, "I'm going to send the Holy Spirit to convict the world of sin because they rob banks"-- or, "because they believe not on me"?

 
It is folly to expect that you or I can trifle with the Lord Jesus and not have a penalty attached to it. What ridiculous thinking people have in this area! We expect penalties for doing much less. Life is just built that way.

You jump off a high building, the law of gravity will take care of you. You might say, “God is love,” all the way down, but you're still going to get splattered when you hit the bottom! You break the law of gravity, and it breaks you! You may love your little child, but if he puts his finger up on that hot burner on the gas stove or the electric stove, he's going to get burned!"

http://www.christiananswers.net/q-grace/hell-and-god.html

[Annella]

Annella, regarding #3, I am going to quote what this site pointed out regarding this remark:
"Can a God of love send anyone to Hell? You might as well ask some other question to make just as much sense. Does God allow disease in the world? Does God allow jails and prisons for some people? Does God allow the electric chair sometimes? Does God allow sin to break homes and hearts? Does God allow war? All of these things are the consequences of sin entering into the world, and in some cases the direct result of man's rebellion, and the result of greed and pride and egotism and hunger for power that doesn't have any use for people--only the desire to get ahead.

This is the incredible fruit of sin. Sin brings suffering into the world. There's no way of getting around it. And the greatest sin in the world is to reject the Lord Jesus Christ as Savior.

We have our catalog of sins. We have rape and incest and murder ; and we have them all cataloged and classified--but there isn't one of them (or even put them all together in one big hunk) that comes close to the sin of keeping Jesus Christ out of your life. Did Jesus say, "I'm going to send the Holy Spirit to convict the world of sin because they rob banks"-- or, "because they believe not on me"?

 
It is folly to expect that you or I can trifle with the Lord Jesus and not have a penalty attached to it. What ridiculous thinking people have in this area! We expect penalties for doing much less. Life is just built that way.

You jump off a high building, the law of gravity will take care of you. You might say, “God is love,” all the way down, but you're still going to get splattered when you hit the bottom! You break the law of gravity, and it breaks you! You may love your little child, but if he puts his finger up on that hot burner on the gas stove or the electric stove, he's going to get burned!"

http://www.christiananswers.net/q-grace/hell-and-god.html

How right you are!!!   I have another meeting at my house in 20 minutes and must make some iced tea.....later dear heart.

[shernajwine]

That was a really good explanation jcribb.

The way I see it is, it's not about deserving hell or not. It's about a choice. If I make a choice to invest money in a certain stock and end up losing everything.....did I deserve it? Not necessarily, but I made a choice and suffered the consequences of the risk I took. Now granted losing all your money is mild compared to where you spend eternity but it's the comparison of making a choice and having the result of that choice be handed down.

Someone who has been presented with the gospel and understands it, either accepts it or rejects it. The act of rejection is the choice they make to not spend eternity with the One they rejected. Every man is judged according to what he knows.

[jcribb16]

That was a really good explanation jcribb.

The way I see it is, it's not about deserving hell or not. It's about a choice. If I make a choice to invest money in a certain stock and end up losing everything.....did I deserve it? Not necessarily, but I made a choice and suffered the consequences of the risk I took. Now granted losing all your money is mild compared to where you spend eternity but it's the comparison of making a choice and having the result of that choice be handed down.

Someone who has been presented with the gospel and understands it, either accepts it or rejects it. The act of rejection is the choice they make to not spend eternity with the One they rejected. Every man is judged according to what he knows.

Great summation and example given.   

[queenofnines]

We have our catalog of sins. We have rape and incest and murder ; and we have them all cataloged and classified--but there isn't one of them (or even put them all together in one big hunk) that comes close to the sin of keeping Jesus Christ out of your life.

And you wonder why people have problems with your religion!!  According to your god, I am infinitely worse than a murderer simply for not believing he exists.  That is some severely messed up dogma right there, and if you can't see how it is, you're brainwashed.

[jcribb16]

We have our catalog of sins. We have rape and incest and murder ; and we have them all cataloged and classified--but there isn't one of them (or even put them all together in one big hunk) that comes close to the sin of keeping Jesus Christ out of your life.

And you wonder why people have problems with your religion!!  According to your god, I am infinitely worse than a murderer simply for not believing he exists.  That is some severely messed up dogma right there, and if you can't see how it is, you're brainwashed.

No, it is you who still cannot or choose to not fathom the message in this.

[sehskyle]

Even some things in the New Testament can be pointed out as strictly customary of the time, assuming a God that believes in an overall morality, some things (mainly those that go directly against morality (such as killing, 10 commandments, ect.)) can be possibly considered not divine providence.

[Annella]

When we are in Heaven, there is no memory of former things.  All pain, suffering, crying, ect., has passed away. We won't even know if our loved ones have made it unless they are there, because remembering will cause pain, and the Lord will wipe that from our mind.

In hell, there is complete memory and every time you rejected God.  Every word, nuance, everything.  It will play like a tape recorder in your mind.  You will remember everything.  However, you won't be able to do anything about it because it will be to late, and your forever separated from God, and He won't hear you.

I have scripture to back up both of these statements if your interested.......

[Annella]

Wow, so if my mom goes to hell, I won't remember her... 

God sounds worse by the minute...good thing this is all made up.

Your certainly entitled to your opinion.

[502mania]

We have our catalog of sins. We have rape and incest and murder ; and we have them all cataloged and classified--but there isn't one of them (or even put them all together in one big hunk) that comes close to the sin of keeping Jesus Christ out of your life.

And you wonder why people have problems with your religion!!  According to your god, I am infinitely worse than a murderer simply for not believing he exists.  That is some severely messed up dogma right there, and if you can't see how it is, you're brainwashed.

No, it is you who still cannot or choose to not fathom the message in this.

Not to take sides, but you did say denying christ is worse than murder, rape, even incest. could you clarify the message?

[queenofnines]

When we are in Heaven, there is no memory of former things.  All pain, suffering, crying, ect., has passed away. We won't even know if our loved ones have made it unless they are there, because remembering will cause pain, and the Lord will wipe that from our mind.

So you DO admit lobotomies are required in heaven!  WOW...how can you say that it is *you* at all in heaven, then, if you have "no memory of former things"?  You're going to be a mindless zombie incapable of free will or thought to be "at peace" in heaven - funny because that's exactly what you claim god DOESN'T want here on Earth!

In hell, there is complete memory and every time you rejected God.  Every word, nuance, everything.  It will play like a tape recorder in your mind.  You will remember everything.

Hmm, that's interesting, considering the main definition of death is when your brain no longer works.  And I don't know about you, but my brain stores all of my memories.  Hmm...

Y'all know magic isn't really real, right?  Because that's what required to believe in any of this nonsense.

[jcribb16]

We have our catalog of sins. We have rape and incest and murder ; and we have them all cataloged and classified--but there isn't one of them (or even put them all together in one big hunk) that comes close to the sin of keeping Jesus Christ out of your life.

And you wonder why people have problems with your religion!!  According to your god, I am infinitely worse than a murderer simply for not believing he exists.  That is some severely messed up dogma right there, and if you can't see how it is, you're brainwashed.

No, it is you who still cannot or choose to not fathom the message in this.

Not to take sides, but you did say denying christ is worse than murder, rape, even incest. could you clarify the message?

“Jesus thus regards blasphemy against the Spirit—permanently rejecting his identity (Matthew 12:18) as attested by the Spirit's works (12:28)—as the worst of sins”
[Craig S. Keener, The IVP Bible Background Commentary, New Testament (Downers Grove, Illinois: InterVarsity Press, 1993), p. 80.].

In other words, "speaking against the Holy Spirit is equivalent to rejecting Christ with such finality that no future repentance is possible."

http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/unpardonablesin.html explains it so much better than me trying to put it in only a few words.

[Annella]

When we are in Heaven, there is no memory of former things.  All pain, suffering, crying, ect., has passed away. We won't even know if our loved ones have made it unless they are there, because remembering will cause pain, and the Lord will wipe that from our mind.

So you DO admit lobotomies are required in heaven!  WOW...how can you say that it is *you* at all in heaven, then, if you have "no memory of former things"?  You're going to be a mindless zombie incapable of free will or thought to be "at peace" in heaven - funny because that's exactly what you claim god DOESN'T want here on Earth!

In hell, there is complete memory and every time you rejected God.  Every word, nuance, everything.  It will play like a tape recorder in your mind.  You will remember everything.

Hmm, that's interesting, considering the main definition of death is when your brain no longer works.  And I don't know about you, but my brain stores all of my memories.  Hmm...

Y'all know magic isn't really real, right?  Because that's what required to believe in any of this nonsense.

Oh, I expect to go there, if that is what you were referring to (you).  Also, your entitled to your opinion.

[Annella]

We have our catalog of sins. We have rape and incest and murder ; and we have them all cataloged and classified--but there isn't one of them (or even put them all together in one big hunk) that comes close to the sin of keeping Jesus Christ out of your life.

And you wonder why people have problems with your religion!!  According to your god, I am infinitely worse than a murderer simply for not believing he exists.  That is some severely messed up dogma right there, and if you can't see how it is, you're brainwashed.

No, it is you who still cannot or choose to not fathom the message in this.

Not to take sides, but you did say denying christ is worse than murder, rape, even incest. could you clarify the message?

“Jesus thus regards blasphemy against the Spirit—permanently rejecting his identity (Matthew 12:18) as attested by the Spirit's works (12:28)—as the worst of sins”
[Craig S. Keener, The IVP Bible Background Commentary, New Testament (Downers Grove, Illinois: InterVarsity Press, 1993), p. 80.].

In other words, "speaking against the Holy Spirit is equivalent to rejecting Christ with such finality that no future repentance is possible."

http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/unpardonablesin.html explains it so much better than me trying to put it in only a few words.

Excellent!