For those who claimed I was using the JW's literature for my support of the name

[teflonfanatic]

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1801088/hallelujah_what_does_hallelujah_mean.html

If for some reason you don't believe anyone got the full name for god right, at least believe in the abbreviation which is NOT LORD!!!

[amyrouse]

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1801088/hallelujah_what_does_hallelujah_mean.html

If for some reason you don't believe anyone got the full name for god right, at least believe in the abbreviation which is NOT LORD!!!

Because yahoo is a much more credible source than a rabbi that is fluent in Hebrew and teaches the language to those going to school to become clergy.   

[amyrouse]

I can post articles, too...

http://www.bibleprofessor.com/files/Jehovah.pdf

Even Wikipedia gets in on the act: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovah

and finally http://www.jewfaq.org/name.htm

[502mania]

I gotta deny the fact that god even has a name. why would he need one? and who named him? man? himself?

[jordandog]

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1801088/hallelujah_what_does_hallelujah_mean.html

If for some reason you don't believe anyone got the full name for god right, at least believe in the abbreviation which is NOT LORD!!!

Because yahoo is a much more credible source than a rabbi that is fluent in Hebrew and teaches the language to those going to school to become clergy.   

Not to mention the fact that JW's have only been in existence since their founding (under another name) in 1872. I believe, could be mistaken, that Jewish/Hebrew has been around just a tiny bit longer ....sarcasm intended.

[502mania]

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1801088/hallelujah_what_does_hallelujah_mean.html

If for some reason you don't believe anyone got the full name for god right, at least believe in the abbreviation which is NOT LORD!!!

Because yahoo is a much more credible source than a rabbi that is fluent in Hebrew and teaches the language to those going to school to become clergy.   

Not to mention the fact that JW's have only been in existence since their founding (under another name) in 1872. I believe, could be mistaken, that Jewish/Hebrew has been around just a tiny bit longer ....sarcasm intended.

[amyrouse]

I gotta deny the fact that god even has a name. why would he need one? and who named him? man? himself?

According to the Talmud, g-d has a name, it is YHVH, and means "I AM".  It was used when Moses asked g-d for a name, and this is what g-d replied.  The pronunciation has been lost over the years, though.

[Falconer02]

I can post articles, too...

I believe, could be mistaken, that Jewish/Hebrew has been around just a tiny bit longer ....sarcasm intended

Nice work.

[amyrouse]

I very often will not delve into the details of my religion because its personal.  However, there are certain things that make me squirm...such as someone who claims to be religious referring to g-d by a false name when I know through study the origin of that false name.  It irritates me, because I feel so strongly about g-d.  I may think the JW's are wrong about many things, but I know they are wrong about g-d's name.  When someone asks a question about it, like armychick did, I will address it.  I have seen the name misused consistently around this forum, and I stay back until the opportunity arises.  I will not call someone names over it, but I will take offense when someone tries to tell me that I am wrong and that they know better than I do when clearly they have no clue what they are talking about... especially when it comes from someone who claims to be religious and knowledgeable about religion. 

I am a devout Jew.  I study Hebrew.  I say blessings.  I read the Tanakh daily, and I struggle with interpretation.  I read books about my religion.  I talk with my rabbi...I talk with rabbi's that are not my rabbi.  I talk to other Jews.  I talk to people of other religions.  I debate scripture with people who know scripture.  I do not rely on anyone else to give me the answers or tell me what to think or feel or believe.  I do not try to convert, because I do not believe that only Jews or believers are worthy of grace...I believe everyone (including the agnostics and the atheists) are worthy of grace by being good, decent, kind, caring, responsible people.  I do not ask others to agree with my religion. 

When someone claims, though, something to do with scripture that I know and study and read and interpret...I feel the need to say something.  I have debated with Annella and Sherene both on scriptural interpretation, and we agreed to disagree.  However...when it comes to the language and an error in translation...I will not just stand idly by and allow someone to claim I am wrong because they say so, give a weak argument (Its a fallacy because no words had vowels in Hebrew) and then ignore my explanation by posting a yahoo article that has nothing to do with the original argument that Jehovah is not g-d's name.

[Falconer02]

Amy, JW's are wrong about a lot of other things than just your gods name. Especially when it comes to social aspects. It's ridiculous-- I suggest you look it up to understand, but I could explain some aspects of it if you wish.

[amyrouse]

Amy, JW's are wrong about a lot of other things than just your gods name. Especially when it comes to social aspects. It's ridiculous-- I suggest you look it up to understand, but I could explain some aspects of it if you wish.

Oh...I definitely agree that there are many things they are wrong about...just like I can find things in so many other religions that I believe are wrong.  I find things within Judaism that I think are wrong. 

Since it's debate and discuss...let's throw all propriety out of the door and start a "What is wrong with religion" thread and come up with specific examples from each religion! LOL

[teflonfanatic]

I very often will not delve into the details of my religion because its personal.  However, there are certain things that make me squirm...such as someone who claims to be religious referring to g-d by a false name when I know through study the origin of that false name.  It irritates me, because I feel so strongly about g-d.  I may think the JW's are wrong about many things, but I know they are wrong about g-d's name.  When someone asks a question about it, like armychick did, I will address it.  I have seen the name misused consistently around this forum, and I stay back until the opportunity arises.  I will not call someone names over it, but I will take offense when someone tries to tell me that I am wrong and that they know better than I do when clearly they have no clue what they are talking about... especially es from someone who claims to be religious and knowledgeable about religion.  

I am a devout Jew.  I study Hebrew.  I say blessings.  I read the Tanakh daily, and I struggle with interpretation.  I read books about my religion.  I talk with my rabbi...I talk with rabbi's that are not my rabbi.  I talk to other Jews.  I talk to people of other religions.  I debate scripture with people who know scripture.  I do not rely on anyone else to give me the answers or tell me what to think or feel or believe.  I do not try to convert, because I do not believe that only Jews or believers are worthy of grace...I believe everyone (including the agnostics and the atheists) are worthy of grace by being good, decent, kind, caring, responsible people.  I do not ask others to agree with my religion.  

When someone claims, though, something to do with scripture that I know and study and read and interpret...I feel the need to say something.  I have debated with Annella and Sherene both on scriptural interpretation, and we agreed to disagree.  However...when it comes to the language and an error in translation...I will not just stand idly by and allow someone to claim I am wrong because they say so, give a weak argument (Its a fallacy because no words had vowels in Hebrew) and then ignore my explanation by posting a yahoo article that has nothing to do with the original argument that Jehovah is not g-d's name.

1 It has to do with the argument because hallelujah has at least an abbreviation of god's name which doesn't translate to LORD or I AM

2. I'm sorry that I get my education for free and don't pay for it, so I get the best links I can find that are free

3. How do you make a name known if his name is unknown?

4. I have nothing against your Rabbi, in fact I feel your Rabbi knows most of the law in the hebrew bible, HOWEVER, it's possible he is passing down the same things the Pharisees or shadduces taught, they were rabbi's, well versed, most likely accredited and jewish.

5. I never said that JW's didn't get anything wrong or are infallible. I studied the errors of the JW's and I studied the errors of various denominations, in my personal ressearch the JW's had less errors.

Exodus 3:15 reads in NWT, ASV, Young's literal, EMphattic Diaglott, and New Jerusalem  

15 Then God said once more to Moses:

“This is what you are to say to the sons of Israel, ‘Jehovah the God of YOUR forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob, has sent me to YOU.’ This is my name to time indefinite, and this is the memorial of me to generation after generation.


In light of hallelujah or alleluia meaning praise Yah or Jah, is it wise to replace the name with LORD or I AM or any other title?  

Here's a video from an APOSTATE or JW heretic kinda different from falconor though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlN0omtviC8

P.S. I'm srry for nipping your quote, for some reason the post box keeps jumping!!!!! This link has some scholar's quotes, rabbi qotes and other *learnt* people with their paper that everyone likes...  http://removinggodsname.xanga.com/525363380/item/

[amyrouse]

1 It has to do with the argument because hallelujah has at least an abbreviation of god's name which doesn't translate to LORD or I AM

2. I'm sorry that I get my education for free and don't pay for it, so I get the best links I can find that are free

3. How do you make a name known if his name is unknown?

4. I have nothing against your Rabbi, in fact I feel your Rabbi knows most of the law in the hebrew bible, HOWEVER, it's possible he is passing down the same things the Pharisees or shadduces taught, they were rabbi's, well versed, most likely accredited and jewish.

5. I never said that JW's didn't get anything wrong or are infallible. I studied the errors of the JW's and I studied the errors of various denominations, in my personal ressearch the JW's had less errors.

Exodus 3:15 reads in NWT, ASV, Young's literal, EMphattic Diaglott, and New Jerusalem reads

15 Then God said once more to Moses:

“This is what you are to say to the sons of Israel, ‘Jehovah the God of YOUR forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob, has sent me to YOU.’ This is my name to time indefinite, and this is the memorial of me to generation after generation.


In light of hallelujah or alleluia meaning praise Yah or Jah, is it wise to replace the name with LORD or I AM or any other title? 

Here's a video from an APOSTATE or JW heretic kinda different from falconor though.

I also posted four free links when doing my research.  I can post more if you would like.

Who is wanting to make g-d's name known?  The fact is, it is unknown.  I've shown that, through what my rabbi taught to me for free. 

I'm glad you have nothing against my rabbi.  He's a wonderful man, and one of the most intelligent people I've ever had the privilege of speaking with and learning from.  He has encouraged me to be open and accepting, and, even though I fall short, I try.  You insinuating that my rabbi, though, has passed on false information, is astounding.  He began attending rabbinical school at the age of 30...and before that, he practiced law.  As a part of his religious studies, he spent a year in Israel, and four years at seminary and is currently a teacher at the very same seminary.  He has the study behind him...as he has never quit studying.  He has the intelligence behind him.  He has the title behind him.  Who are you?  A random person I met on a forum who is accusing clergy of not knowing their religion.  Nice to meet you, Bible expert...oh, and Hebrew expert, as well, I almost forgot.

Forgive me for being harsh...but your crack against my rabbi was out of line.  He is my family, and I love him dearly, almost as much as I love my husband and g-d (not my daughter, though...I love no one, including g-d, more than my daughter.).  But then again, in all fairness, maybe the crack wasn't aimed solely at my rabbi...he's just an innocent teaching what those Jews have taught through the years.   

What have you shown, other than a yahoo document?  I have broken down my argument piece by piece and posted four websites backing me up.  You have said only that there were vowels and posted a yahoo document that does not delve into the origin of the name Jehovah. 

But while we're speaking of the origin of hallelujah...it comes from hallel, which is a grouping of verse...Psalms 113-118 to be exact.  Notice...even in a translation, Jehovah is never referenced to as g-d's name, only praise to the lord. If you understood how to read Hebrew a little...I'd show you exactly where in the Hebrew you are wrong here.  http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt26b3.htm

And...here is Exodus 3:15...again, referencing the Lord: http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt0203.htm  I suggest you check your translation...that isn't going to fly over here.

Now...what the articles I've posted have said is that the origin of Jehovah being the name of g-d has come from the Masoretic texts and from Catholicism.  Have you scanned them?  I took the time to click your link.

And...I have researched this through free websites and the power of logic...please don't bring up the "not paying for education" remark again, because it was uncalled for. 

And...as for the JW's having less errors...I feel that is a topic Falconer is more suited to debate.  But, for you to insinuate the JW's have it right while the Jews are wrong...I need to stop right there, before I say anything else that will make me regret replying to you.

[Annella]

I very often will not delve into the details of my religion because its personal.  However, there are certain things that make me squirm...such as someone who claims to be religious referring to g-d by a false name when I know through study the origin of that false name.  It irritates me, because I feel so strongly about g-d.  I may think the JW's are wrong about many things, but I know they are wrong about g-d's name.  When someone asks a question about it, like armychick did, I will address it.  I have seen the name misused consistently around this forum, and I stay back until the opportunity arises.  I will not call someone names over it, but I will take offense when someone tries to tell me that I am wrong and that they know better than I do when clearly they have no clue what they are talking about... especially when it comes from someone who claims to be religious and knowledgeable about religion. 

I am a devout Jew.  I study Hebrew.  I say blessings.  I read the Tanakh daily, and I struggle with interpretation.  I read books about my religion.  I talk with my rabbi...I talk with rabbi's that are not my rabbi.  I talk to other Jews.  I talk to people of other religions.  I debate scripture with people who know scripture.  I do not rely on anyone else to give me the answers or tell me what to think or feel or believe.  I do not try to convert, because I do not believe that only Jews or believers are worthy of grace...I believe everyone (including the agnostics and the atheists) are worthy of grace by being good, decent, kind, caring, responsible people.  I do not ask others to agree with my religion. 

When someone claims, though, something to do with scripture that I know and study and read and interpret...I feel the need to say something.  I have debated with Annella and Sherene both on scriptural interpretation, and we agreed to disagree.  However...when it comes to the language and an error in translation...I will not just stand idly by and allow someone to claim I am wrong because they say so, give a weak argument (Its a fallacy because no words had vowels in Hebrew) and then ignore my explanation by posting a yahoo article that has nothing to do with the original argument that Jehovah is not g-d's name.

Of course you disagree with Christians Amy, because in your Jewish beliefs, you don't believe the New Testament is applicable.  If you did, then you would believe that Jesus was the Messiah, and DID come to seek and save them that were lost.  You don't believe any of it, as your still "waiting" for your messiah to come.  This is the Jewish belief.  

God in the Bible is known of many names, and titles, applied mostly by man.  He did say to Abraham that His name was secret.  He called himself "IAM that IAM" to Abraham.   In the New Testament (which you don't believe) we cry to him "Abba Father".  He is so many things to us, he has many names concerning His manifestations and attributes in the Old Testament.  Jehovah, Rose of Sharon, Lion of Judah, the morning Star, etc.  I know Him as Jesus (God manifested in the flesh...NT).  Of course this isn't something you believe.

Do we know His real secret Old Testament name?  Is it a Salvational issue to know?  Does it gain us entry into Heaven?  Nope.  As far as the JW's calling themselves "Jehovah's Witnesses", it's just a Title like Nazarene, Baptist, Pentecostal, Presbyterian, Catholic, etc.  What is so disturbing is that they DO believe the New Testament, and still think they are of the 144,000.....among other things.

You are right though, everyone has to get their own answers.  I get mine out of the whole Bible and also study the Old Hebrew and Greek translations and interpretations.  I also ask for wisdom from my God to open the scriptures to my understanding through His Spirit.  However, nobody knows it all...Jew or Gentile.

He did say that we would search the scriptures, and find that they testify of HIM!!

[jcribb16]

That was well put, Annella, and handled with sensitivity regarding someone else's beliefs.