Another god-related topic

[queenofnines]

We do not kill, lie, steal, or any such thing according to God's law...Some laws were for the Hebrews, and the founding of a Nation, and the strict obedience God required.

So basically you're saying that because our ancestors were barbaric idiots, it was okay for THEM to kill, lie, and steal, but not us.  Sorry, but that kind of "reasoning" doesn't fly.  HE'S GOD.  He could and should have come up with rules/policies that didn't involve MASS GENOCIDE if he wants me to believe he is actually god.  How can you people read the Old Testament and be cool with god giving direct orders for the murder of MILLIONS???  While saying "thou shalt not kill" in the next breath - PSSH!  Hello, that's a HUGE CLUE your "perfect, loving, just" god is a phony!!

You must take the "Whole" of God's Word to understand the perfection of it, why, and how.

Fun fact about the Koran: did you know that it, like the Bible, also contradicts itself by saying kill...no don't kill!...kill...BUT there is also a part that says, "Any Scripture that came before that seems to conflict with what I am saying now, disregard it".  That's why some Muslims are kill-happy; they're merely following the latter part of their law!

All your questions require much study and writing.

Because god wants everyone to be saved but is also as confusing as possible.  Wait, that's not it.  It takes much effort and cross-referencing to craft the B.S. answers to your questions, 502!

[queenofnines]

But you never justified killing anyone who works on the sabbath. or killing homosexuals, atheists, disobedient children, adulterers, women who lose their virginity before marriage, etc... so you haven't done the studying for this? if you take god's word as a "whole", you have to kill a LOT of people. also, if you are christian, jesus said, you need to SELL ALL of your posessions and give to the poor to have treasure in heaven. explain why the catholic church is so rich, despite christ's word they "follow". also, you agree that slavery is okay? that's part of god's word as a "whole", he even gives prices.

Christians don't think about these things, 502...and that's why they're still Christians.   

P.S.  Most anyone who says they don't care about the heaven bit are full of it!!  As Adam Carrola says, "If a few thousand years ago I came up with a religion or god that said, 'everything's good, you do unto others, and you love your neighbor, stay out of trouble, and when you die, that's about it.  You just turn into dirt.'  TELL ME IF YOU THINK THAT CONCEPT WOULD HAVE TAKEN OFF?  No, it wouldn't of.  We NEED this because we're freaked out...we're the only creatures on the planet that are aware that we're going to die and that's the way it works.  And we're freaked out.  We have no reference point for 'zero'.  We can deal with ANYTHING but zero.  Go ahead and live the next 80 years on this planet, knowing that at the end of the journey there's a big fat zero and you can't wrap your brain around it.  Well, I'll tell you how people wrap their brain around it: THEY LIE TO THEMSELVES and create a god."

[queenofnines]

Today, we do not buy or sell slaves, but we still hire other people to do other jobs for us.  Childcare, cleaning, cooking, etc.  What is the difference?

What's the difference???  Uh, you don't BEAT the help today, duh!! 

What's the difference??  People today take jobs VOLUNTARILY and can LEAVE AT ANY TIME...not so with the slaves from your Bible!!

Come on now, are you really THAT desperate to believe in god that you would make the unimaginable faux pas of comparing today's service workers to SLAVES???!!

[jordandog]

God was the lawgiver in the Old Testament and was laying a foundation to all humanity.  Some laws were for the Hebrews, and the founding of a Nation, and the strict obedience God required.  You must take the "Whole" of God's Word to understand the perfection of it, why, and how.

Again we have the "must take the whole of god's word to understand". I have seen this repeatedly and take it as meaning both the OT and the NT, correct? If that is true, it once again makes me think that people like Amyrouse are being 'slighted' by any and all Christians. Those who are of the Jewish faith, in studying/applying only the OT are NOT using the whole Bible, so they are not getting the "whole" of god's word.

Now, before you get yourself all fired up and start implying I am trying to divide the friends of your's and/or the Christians/believers on here, or anywhere, save it because it is a bunch of bull - and I have heard that accusation enough too. Everytime I see that it comes across as The Christian Superiority in action and I do not care for it, not that that matters to you, but I am saying it anyway. I don't know how anyone with half a brain could NOT come to that same thinking if they have followed any of the discussions on here.

That's why some Muslims are kill-happy; they're merely following the latter part of their law!

Blatant mistake there, queen. Remember? All Islamic/Muslims are kill happy - they want any and all infidels dead.

[Annella]

For one thing, the plan of Salvation is not confusing or complicated.

Since you think my God is a phony and you don't believe the Bible, then go your way and believe what you want.

Your also picking and choosing certain CONTEXT and expounding on it in ERROR.  

While man has done many things (sinful, such as you mentioned....incest), what has that got to do with God?  I never said it was acceptable to lie, kill, or steal, for the ancestors in the Bible.  Quit adding words that are not there or were posted by me.  The Bible does say that every man did what was right in his own eyes in certain dispensations of time as there was no law or lawgiver in the land.

You didn't read my previous posts either about the different dispensations of the Law vs Grace.  I do have a study that I give (24 lessons) over all the dispensations and timeline of the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and what and why things were as they were.  I tried to "condense it for 502mania, in a way he might grasp it, without a lot of detailing.

Since you don't believe the Bible or that God exists, then there really isn't any debate with you on any level.  We are at opposite ends of the spectrum, and will never agree.  Adieu

[Annella]

God was the lawgiver in the Old Testament and was laying a foundation to all humanity.  Some laws were for the Hebrews, and the founding of a Nation, and the strict obedience God required.  You must take the "Whole" of God's Word to understand the perfection of it, why, and how.

Again we have the "must take the whole of god's word to understand". I have seen this repeatedly and take it as meaning both the OT and the NT, correct? If that is true, it once again makes me think that people like Amyrouse are being 'slighted' by any and all Christians. Those who are of the Jewish faith, in studying/applying only the OT are NOT using the whole Bible, so they are not getting the "whole" of god's word.

Now, before you get yourself all fired up and start implying I am trying to divide the friends of your's and/or the Christians/believers on here, or anywhere, save it because it is a bunch of bull - and I have heard that accusation enough too. Everytime I see that it comes across as The Christian Superiority in action and I do not care for it, not that that matters to you, but I am saying it anyway. I don't know how anyone with half a brain could NOT come to that same thinking if they have followed any of the discussions on here.

That's why some Muslims are kill-happy; they're merely following the latter part of their law!

Blatant mistake there, queen. Remember? All Islamic/Muslims are kill happy - they want any and all infidels dead.

Your opinion is just that.....your opinion, and your entitled to it.  I don't have to agree with it.

If Amy has a problem with me, she has means to contact me here or on another venue about such, and we will discuss it.  I was merely discussing the difference in religions.  How you interpret anything I post is just that......your interpretation or opinion.

[jordandog]

If Amy has a problem with me, she has means to contact me here or on another venue about such, and we will discuss it.

You conveniently worked your way around it again. I did NOT say she had or should have a problem with you. My point was that I take offense to the superiority as far as Christianity here or anywhere. This is something that turns many people off to Christianity, and I do not mean just here on FC, because you (meaning Christians, not you, Annella) come across as knowing all of god's word when others 'obviously' do not and exactly how the rest of mankind should be conducting itself, whether you realize it or not. So many people mistakenly think that Judaism is nothing more than Christianity minus Jesus. In reality it is vastly different in deeper and more complex ways. Maybe my own prejudice is coming out. I may not believe as you or anyone does in God, but I have always had a deep respect for Judaism, it's history, rich traditions that basically never change, and above all, the fact they do NOT seem to be roped into all the 'judgement'. Too many Christians change their 'rules' on a whim to what happens to suit them at the time, even when it has nothing to do with the bible or god's word, and it comes across as so hypocritical.

Yes, it is my opinion, but I was taught that I will never know if I am wrong about something if I refuse to even look at or consider another's opinion.

[jcribb16]

I also would much rather believe in God, than not, and then pay for my choice eternally for not believing in Him.

jcribb, you must be made aware that Pascal's Wager is one of the weakest arguments for belief of ALL TIME.  It's weak because there are many flaws in it; namely, it assumes you are believing in the CORRECT god in the first place.  Watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNcWdV0LYG4 (pay attention to what he's saying and ignore his appearance, please)

Aside from the fact that Pascal's Wager completely falls apart from logical fallacies, it is also a weak-minded argument.  So you're going to sell your whole life away because you're scared of unsubstantiated threats; you're terrified of this "bad place" that only exists in the minds of those who have passed the lie down from generation to generation...it has no proof.  YOU, AS AN ADULT, HAVE PLACED YOURSELF IN THE SAME POSITION AS THE 6-YEAR-OLD WHO'S SCARED OF MONSTERS.  There's no proof of the monsters, common sense tells you it's silly to be scared of them, and yet you remain scared anyway.

You can stop comparing what I said to Pascal Wager.  I don't care if you consider my wanting to live eternally in heaven with my Lord is because I'm scared of the substantiated place of hell. It's true I would be terrified to spend eternity there.  But I don't have any worries in that respect because I do believe in God and I believe the Bible is God's Word.  Apparently you have a problem with this whole idea since you keep throwing it back in Christian's faces.  Maybe you should delve down deep and face your own fears.

And for the record, I haven't sold my life away as you seemed to when you denounced God.  I am secure in my faith and my eternity.

[Annella]

If Amy has a problem with me, she has means to contact me here or on another venue about such, and we will discuss it.

You conveniently worked your way around it again. I did NOT say she had or should have a problem with you. My point was that I take offense to the superiority as far as Christianity here or anywhere. This is something that turns many people off to Christianity, and I do not mean just here on FC, because you (meaning Christians, not you, Annella) come across as knowing all of god's word when others 'obviously' do not and exactly how the rest of mankind should be conducting itself, whether you realize it or not. So many people mistakenly think that Judaism is nothing more than Christianity minus Jesus. In reality it is vastly different in deeper and more complex ways. Maybe my own prejudice is coming out. I may not believe as you or anyone does in God, but I have always had a deep respect for Judaism, it's history, rich traditions that basically never change, and above all, the fact they do NOT seem to be roped into all the 'judgement'. Too many Christians change their 'rules' on a whim to what happens to suit them at the time, even when it has nothing to do with the bible or god's word, and it comes across as so hypocritical.

Yes, it is my opinion, but I was taught that I will never know if I am wrong about something if I refuse to even look at or consider another's opinion.

I find it quite surprising when someone who doesn't believe in God or the Bible expounds in great detail what they do not believe in much stronger language than any Christian has ever used on this forum.....that seems to be okay.  But when a Christian expounds on their knowledge of the Bible and/or answering a question put to them, then they are showing "superiority".  That's a double standard.

Judaism is a rich heritage, as I've stated to Amy many times before.  However, they don't believe Jesus was the Messiah or the New Testament writings.  On that we disagree, as every Christian does.  It's not something that's made up, Amy does not agree with my beliefs either.  

Whatever problem you see here is clearly non-existent.  

[Annella]

I also would much rather believe in God, than not, and then pay for my choice eternally for not believing in Him.

jcribb, you must be made aware that Pascal's Wager is one of the weakest arguments for belief of ALL TIME.  It's weak because there are many flaws in it; namely, it assumes you are believing in the CORRECT god in the first place.  Watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNcWdV0LYG4 (pay attention to what he's saying and ignore his appearance, please)

Aside from the fact that Pascal's Wager completely falls apart from logical fallacies, it is also a weak-minded argument.  So you're going to sell your whole life away because you're scared of unsubstantiated threats; you're terrified of this "bad place" that only exists in the minds of those who have passed the lie down from generation to generation...it has no proof.  YOU, AS AN ADULT, HAVE PLACED YOURSELF IN THE SAME POSITION AS THE 6-YEAR-OLD WHO'S SCARED OF MONSTERS.  There's no proof of the monsters, common sense tells you it's silly to be scared of them, and yet you remain scared anyway.

You can stop comparing what I said to Pascal Wager.  I don't care if you consider my wanting to live eternally in heaven with my Lord is because I'm scared of the substantiated place of hell. It's true I would be terrified to spend eternity there.  But I don't have any worries in that respect because I do believe in God and I believe the Bible is God's Word.  Apparently you have a problem with this whole idea since you keep throwing it back in Christian's faces.  Maybe you should delve down deep and face your own fears.

And for the record, I haven't sold my life away as you seemed to when you denounced God.  I am secure in my faith and my eternity.

[queenofnines]

For one thing, the plan of Salvation is not confusing or complicated.

It's confusing and complicated from a logical perspective.  God "tested" us even though he knew we would fail; we failed because we didn't know it was wrong to not listen to god prior to eating the knowledge if right/wrong; now ALL of humanity is cursed because of two people and will burn forever unless they can believe god created a loophole in his wacko plan where he murdered himself to himself just so he could forgive US for the stupid plan HE set in motion...this is pure craziness.

While man has done many things (sinful, such as you mentioned....incest)

Wait, incest is wrong?    But where did Cain's wife come from?  And all of the offspring from Noah's Ark?

what has that got to do with God?  I never said it was acceptable to lie, kill, or steal, for the ancestors in the Bible.  Quit adding words that are not there or were posted by me.  The Bible does say that every man did what was right in his own eyes in certain dispensations of time as there was no law or lawgiver in the land.

What it's got to do with god is again, that's the best he could so?  Sit back and watch us go about our lives in less-than-ideal ways?  And you did imply that it was acceptable - OR AT LEAST EXPECTED - for people to be governed by behaviors like that back then.

And how could there be no lawgiver when you said just before that god was the lawgiver?  God was VISIBLE back then and performing magic tricks.  He repeatedly gave atrocious orders and commandments in the OT that his people were happy to follow.

You didn't read my previous posts either about the different dispensations of the Law vs Grace.

Yes I did.  What can I really say to cult-speak, though?  Whatever I say won't get through.

I tried to "condense it for 502mania, in a way he might grasp it, without a lot of detailing.

And luckily, he seems like a smart cookie who has been fortunate enough to escape indoctrination and see reality for what it REALLY is.  It's highly unlikely that someone who thinks critically like he does will become a casualty to your fantasy religion.  

Remember 502: only one side can be right.  Don't be tempted to sacrifice your reasoning abilities just because it's popular to believe in a god.  The masses have been wrong many, many times before.  The case of religion is no different.

[Annella]

For one thing, the plan of Salvation is not confusing or complicated.

It's confusing and complicated from a logical perspective.  God "tested" us even though he knew we would fail; we failed because we didn't know it was wrong to not listen to god prior to eating the knowledge if right/wrong; now ALL of humanity is cursed because of two people and will burn forever unless they can believe god created a loophole in his wacko plan where he murdered himself to himself just so he could forgive US for the stupid plan HE set in motion...this is pure craziness.

While man has done many things (sinful, such as you mentioned....incest)

Wait, incest is wrong?    But where did Cain's wife come from?  And all of the offspring from Noah's Ark?

what has that got to do with God?  I never said it was acceptable to lie, kill, or steal, for the ancestors in the Bible.  Quit adding words that are not there or were posted by me.  The Bible does say that every man did what was right in his own eyes in certain dispensations of time as there was no law or lawgiver in the land.

What it's got to do with god is again, that's the best he could so?  Sit back and watch us go about our lives in less-than-ideal ways?  And you did imply that it was acceptable - OR AT LEAST EXPECTED - for people to be governed by behaviors like that back then.

And how could there be no lawgiver when you said just before that god was the lawgiver?  God was VISIBLE back then and performing magic tricks.  He repeatedly gave atrocious orders and commandments in the OT that his people were happy to follow.

You didn't read my previous posts either about the different dispensations of the Law vs Grace.

Yes I did.  What can I really say to cult-speak, though?  Whatever I say won't get through.

I tried to "condense it for 502mania, in a way he might grasp it, without a lot of detailing.

And luckily, he seems like a smart cookie who has been fortunate enough to escape indoctrination and see reality for what it REALLY is.  It's highly unlikely that someone who thinks critically like he does will become a casualty to your fantasy religion.  

Remember 502: only one side can be right.  Don't be tempted to sacrifice your reasoning abilities just because it's popular to believe in a god.  The masses have been wrong many, many times before.  The case of religion is no different.

Your Picking apart words, and then twisting them to seem as if my meaning was two sided.  Your taking things out of context word by word. 

This debate is moot as all others you try with me.  YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN GOD OR THE BIBLE......I DO.  I will not argue scripture with you.....period.  It's the same arguments you've put to Christians countless of times, and have been answered countless of times, then you come back another way, and ask the same questions that you already got answers for.  Sounds like your trying to convince yourself.

[jordandog]

If Amy has a problem with me, she has means to contact me here or on another venue about such, and we will discuss it.

You conveniently worked your way around it again. I did NOT say she had or should have a problem with you. My point was that I take offense to the superiority as far as Christianity here or anywhere. This is something that turns many people off to Christianity, and I do not mean just here on FC, because you (meaning Christians, not you, Annella) come across as knowing all of god's word when others 'obviously' do not and exactly how the rest of mankind should be conducting itself, whether you realize it or not. So many people mistakenly think that Judaism is nothing more than Christianity minus Jesus. In reality it is vastly different in deeper and more complex ways. Maybe my own prejudice is coming out. I may not believe as you or anyone does in God, but I have always had a deep respect for Judaism, it's history, rich traditions that basically never change, and above all, the fact they do NOT seem to be roped into all the 'judgement'. Too many Christians change their 'rules' on a whim to what happens to suit them at the time, even when it has nothing to do with the bible or god's word, and it comes across as so hypocritical.

Yes, it is my opinion, but I was taught that I will never know if I am wrong about something if I refuse to even look at or consider another's opinion.

I find it quite surprising when someone who doesn't believe in God or the Bible expounds in great detail what they do not believe in much stronger language than any Christian has ever used on this forum.....that seems to be okay.  But when a Christian expounds on their knowledge of the Bible and/or answering a question put to them, then they are showing "superiority".  That's a double standard.

Judaism is a rich heritage, as I've stated to Amy many times before.  However, they don't believe Jesus was the Messiah or the New Testament writings.  On that we disagree, as every Christian does.  It's not something that's made up, Amy does not agree with my beliefs either.  

Whatever problem you see here is clearly non-existent.  

Please, you are sitting there stating that no Christian has expounded in great detail on what they believe using very strong language on here?! You must be in a different Forum than I am. I find it strange that I can pose things to other Christians on here and they will give answers and views which I am able to read and consider, but when I pose them to you, you only say, "It's your opinion." "I am trying to cause a rift..." or some other non-answer. Are you uncomfortable with what I bring to you or just close-minded enough that you won't even think about any of it, because that is how it comes across. I am not sitting here belittling every little thing said and everything about the Bible. That is handled well by others. I have not referenced superiority with anyone but you because I DO NOT see that coming from others on here, plain and simple. I used the 'superiority' in a general sense in my previous post anyway, but if you take offense to it and need to make excuses for it, maybe you need to look at what is behind THAT and why it bothers you so much.

Looking at the growing number of Christians who are posting now (yes, I know, they all wrote you and said how afraid they were to post before), you have to admit we on the other side are a very small minority so please don't make it sound as if your views are being drowned out - they aren't. I'll also add I have rarely, if ever, seen the Jewish community et all inserting itself into the politics and laws of this country. I certainly cannot say the same for the Christians and the Chritian majority in America most certainly does have an impact on my life and the life of others, whether we are followers or not.

I feel I can state and question freely what I do not believe because I have 25 years OF believing behind me. It's not as if I am coming out of left field with nothing to back me up.

[Annella]

If Amy has a problem with me, she has means to contact me here or on another venue about such, and we will discuss it.

You conveniently worked your way around it again. I did NOT say she had or should have a problem with you. My point was that I take offense to the superiority as far as Christianity here or anywhere. This is something that turns many people off to Christianity, and I do not mean just here on FC, because you (meaning Christians, not you, Annella) come across as knowing all of god's word when others 'obviously' do not and exactly how the rest of mankind should be conducting itself, whether you realize it or not. So many people mistakenly think that Judaism is nothing more than Christianity minus Jesus. In reality it is vastly different in deeper and more complex ways. Maybe my own prejudice is coming out. I may not believe as you or anyone does in God, but I have always had a deep respect for Judaism, it's history, rich traditions that basically never change, and above all, the fact they do NOT seem to be roped into all the 'judgement'. Too many Christians change their 'rules' on a whim to what happens to suit them at the time, even when it has nothing to do with the bible or god's word, and it comes across as so hypocritical.

Yes, it is my opinion, but I was taught that I will never know if I am wrong about something if I refuse to even look at or consider another's opinion.

I find it quite surprising when someone who doesn't believe in God or the Bible expounds in great detail what they do not believe in much stronger language than any Christian has ever used on this forum.....that seems to be okay.  But when a Christian expounds on their knowledge of the Bible and/or answering a question put to them, then they are showing "superiority".  That's a double standard.

Judaism is a rich heritage, as I've stated to Amy many times before.  However, they don't believe Jesus was the Messiah or the New Testament writings.  On that we disagree, as every Christian does.  It's not something that's made up, Amy does not agree with my beliefs either.  

Whatever problem you see here is clearly non-existent.  

Please, you are sitting there stating that no Christian has expounded in great detail on what they believe using very strong language on here?! You must be in a different Forum than I am. I find it strange that I can pose things to other Christians on here and they will give answers and views which I am able to read and consider, but when I pose them to you, you only say, "It's your opinion." "I am trying to cause a rift..." or some other non-answer. Are you uncomfortable with what I bring to you or just close-minded enough that you won't even think about any of it, because that is how it comes across. I am not sitting here belittling every little thing said and everything about the Bible. That is handled well by others. I have not referenced superiority with anyone but you because I DO NOT see that coming from others on here, plain and simple. I used the 'superiority' in a general sense in my previous post anyway, but if you take offense to it and need to make excuses for it, maybe you need to look at what is behind THAT and why it bothers you so much.

Looking at the growing number of Christians who are posting now (yes, I know, they all wrote you and said how afraid they were to post before), you have to admit we on the other side are a very small minority so please don't make it sound as if your views are being drowned out - they aren't. I'll also add I have rarely, if ever, seen the Jewish community et all inserting itself into the politics and laws of this country. I certainly cannot say the same for the Christians and the Chritian majority in America most certainly does have an impact on my life and the life of others, whether we are followers or not.

Since you seem to have a problem with how I post or answer questions, then don't post to me.  It's simple to remedy.  You ARE entitled to your opinion, as I'M entitled to mine.  

As far as Christians having an impact on your life is how Democracy works.  You vote your way, and we vote ours. Every cause has it's followers.  I won't apologize how I live, and what my life may influence whether it be at the polls or wherever.  You have the same rights as I do, to use however you see fit.  

[shouti]

yeah right