Democracy....majority rules and all that jazz.....

[walksalone11]

The demographic I belong to(Indigenous to this continent) currently makes up a mere 2% of the population. Many of our Nations are supposed to be "sovereign".

Often is the time, that one bill or the other, that further erodes our rights to self determination, comes before the law makers of the US. Now, even if it were possible to get every "Indun" on Turtle Island to the polls to cast a vote, which of course it isnt, we are still so vastly out voted that we have absolutely no say what so ever in the matters that effect us the most.

Do you think this is right? Or should we just get over that too and bend back over?

[shernajwine]

I think its unfair that your people are under-represented but how would that even be rectified? I'm asking from ignorance because I don't really get my jollies from political issues, if you know know what I mean lol.

[walksalone11]

I think its unfair that your people are under-represented but how would that even be rectified? I'm asking from ignorance because I don't really get my jollies from political issues, if you know know what I mean lol.

Mrs Sherna......I could speak on that at length because there really is no simple quick fix. I also realize you have a great deal on your plate, so to speak, with your own research and concerns but if you have a spare hour sometime, perhaps you could read about the "Great Law of the Iroquois Confederacy".

 Basically, the only truly fair governing system for a diverse group is one in which mandates are passed by consensus, however, that is so far removed from the present system that many changes would have to be made in order to even think about implementing it.

[shernajwine]

I will look it up and bookmark it, to read it when I have some time.

You are right about my plate though! My desk in front of me has so many books piled up about religion! From the militant writings of Sam Harris to the Atheist conversion of Lee Strobel. I can almost hear the repelling magnetic energy of opposite beliefs buzzing in my ears!

[amyrouse]

The demographic I belong to(Indigenous to this continent) currently makes up a mere 2% of the population. Many of our Nations are supposed to be "sovereign".

Often is the time, that one bill or the other, that further erodes our rights to self determination, comes before the law makers of the US. Now, even if it were possible to get every "Indun" on Turtle Island to the polls to cast a vote, which of course it isnt, we are still so vastly out voted that we have absolutely no say what so ever in the matters that effect us the most.

Do you think this is right? Or should we just get over that too and bend back over?

It isn't right.  Your land was colonized by "aliens" and you were forced to assimilate.  From what I understand, the law says you are a nation within yourselves (please correct me if I am wrong).  You shouldn't have to vote in American elections or attempt to elect people to the American government, because being sovereign means you are a country unto yourselves.  As far as I know, the Vatican does not have a say in Italian politics, and Washington, D.C. is not a part of Virginia's state governance...so why should we expect that of sovereign indigenous states?

[walksalone11]

The demographic I belong to(Indigenous to this continent) currently makes up a mere 2% of the population. Many of our Nations are supposed to be "sovereign".

Often is the time, that one bill or the other, that further erodes our rights to self determination, comes before the law makers of the US. Now, even if it were possible to get every "Indun" on Turtle Island to the polls to cast a vote, which of course it isnt, we are still so vastly out voted that we have absolutely no say what so ever in the matters that effect us the most.

Do you think this is right? Or should we just get over that too and bend back over?

It isn't right.  Your land was colonized by "aliens" and you were forced to assimilate.  From what I understand, the law says you are a nation within yourselves (please correct me if I am wrong).  You shouldn't have to vote in American elections or attempt to elect people to the American government, because being sovereign means you are a country unto yourselves.  As far as I know, the Vatican does not have a say in Italian politics, and Washington, D.C. is not a part of Virginia's state governance...so why should we expect that of sovereign indigenous states?

Thanks Amy you bring up some very interesting points here and I will do my best to give you "my" take on them.

Actually, although we inhabitted Turtle Island, it is said, and we are taught today, that we do not own the land, so technically no it wasn't "our" land. Each tribal group did however inhabit and defend certain geographical areas but it was more about groceries rather than real estate.

Yes the land was colonized by "aliens"(no green card no less) and we still call them colonizers today

There was and very much is attempts to force us to assimilate, and in fact many did, however even more did and continue to refuse, hence, the tensions of past as well as modern times.

There are treaties that "grant, lol: us sovereignty, however, number one, sovereignty only applies to the Nations that the feds decide it does and two of the over 300 treaties, not one is unbroken by the U.S.

However, regardless of US and other perceptions we, traditionals, maintain our inherant right to sovereignty.
Also there is much inner-tribal squabbling concerning this right and those who excercise our citizenship status.

I mean, how do you insist on sovereignty then in the next breath talk about some NDN canidate running for government office?
That would be comparable to me saying I am going to run for office in russia or Germany for instance.

However, with a deck stacked so heavily against us, we are forced to try and explore every avenue available to us.

The US granted all NDNs citizenship, although, it was designed as yet another assimilating attempt, but it does give us just a glimmer of hope of using the fact to the betterment of our peoples.

So, in that light, I do support NDN candidates and NDN voting in US elections, however, as I have previously stated in my OP with us being only 2% of the population and, I would guess, only a fraction of a percent of voters in any given election it is a very very faint glimmer if not just a figment of our more outlandish fantasies.

There is a big effort to encourage higher education among our young people and pursuits of profeesions including but not limmited to political office, however, that in itself would be food for a entirely seperate thread that perhaps I will elaborate on at a later time. I hope this answers your question and if not I would be more then thankful for the oppertunity to elaborate further.

[jcribb16]

I would just like to say, Walksalone, that I am very interested in your topics about this.  I may not be able to add too much to it, but I do try to keep up with it.  I did sign up for a weekly newsletter from a site you recommended in another thread, and I really enjoy going through it, seeing how hard everyone works toward the goals, like what you were talking about above, and the support among the people is amazing.  Also, hopefully, I will be able to take the language course after Christmas.

My grandmother's grandmother was Cherokee, so I really try to keep up with current info on that, as well.  I really feel for all of those way back that had to endure leaving their homes, and move to Oklahoma ("The Trail of Tears".)  It breaks a person's heart.

[walksalone11]

I would just like to say, Walksalone, that I am very interested in your topics about this.  I may not be able to add too much to it, but I do try to keep up with it.  I did sign up for a weekly newsletter from a site you recommended in another thread, and I really enjoy going through it, seeing how hard everyone works toward the goals, like what you were talking about above, and the support among the people is amazing.  Also, hopefully, I will be able to take the language course after Christmas.

My grandmother's grandmother was Cherokee, so I really try to keep up with current info on that, as well.  I really feel for all of those way back that had to endure leaving their homes, and move to Oklahoma ("The Trail of Tears".)  It breaks a person's heart.

Thank you JC, if there is any thing specifically you would like info on I would be more then happy to provide it. There are some things I have more current knowledge then others, just because of my involvement on certain issues but our population is small enough that if there is an NDN I dont know, I guarentee you I know someone who does lol so if it is something concerning our Nations and I dont have the info on hand, I can get it pretty quickly.

I am convinced that education is one of our best tools and anyone who has a desire for knowledge, I have all the time in the world to ensure they understand what the true facts are.

Again, Thank you for your interest and your concern.

[amyrouse]

The demographic I belong to(Indigenous to this continent) currently makes up a mere 2% of the population. Many of our Nations are supposed to be "sovereign".

Often is the time, that one bill or the other, that further erodes our rights to self determination, comes before the law makers of the US. Now, even if it were possible to get every "Indun" on Turtle Island to the polls to cast a vote, which of course it isnt, we are still so vastly out voted that we have absolutely no say what so ever in the matters that effect us the most.

Do you think this is right? Or should we just get over that too and bend back over?

It isn't right.  Your land was colonized by "aliens" and you were forced to assimilate.  From what I understand, the law says you are a nation within yourselves (please correct me if I am wrong).  You shouldn't have to vote in American elections or attempt to elect people to the American government, because being sovereign means you are a country unto yourselves.  As far as I know, the Vatican does not have a say in Italian politics, and Washington, D.C. is not a part of Virginia's state governance...so why should we expect that of sovereign indigenous states?

Thanks Amy you bring up some very interesting points here and I will do my best to give you "my" take on them.

Actually, although we inhabitted Turtle Island, it is said, and we are taught today, that we do not own the land, so technically no it wasn't "our" land. Each tribal group did however inhabit and defend certain geographical areas but it was more about groceries rather than real estate.

Yes the land was colonized by "aliens"(no green card no less) and we still call them colonizers today

There was and very much is attempts to force us to assimilate, and in fact many did, however even more did and continue to refuse, hence, the tensions of past as well as modern times.

There are treaties that "grant, lol: us sovereignty, however, number one, sovereignty only applies to the Nations that the feds decide it does and two of the over 300 treaties, not one is unbroken by the U.S.

However, regardless of US and other perceptions we, traditionals, maintain our inherant right to sovereignty.
Also there is much inner-tribal squabbling concerning this right and those who excercise our citizenship status.

I mean, how do you insist on sovereignty then in the next breath talk about some NDN canidate running for government office?
That would be comparable to me saying I am going to run for office in russia or Germany for instance.

However, with a deck stacked so heavily against us, we are forced to try and explore every avenue available to us.

The US granted all NDNs citizenship, although, it was designed as yet another assimilating attempt, but it does give us just a glimmer of hope of using the fact to the betterment of our peoples.

So, in that light, I do support NDN candidates and NDN voting in US elections, however, as I have previously stated in my OP with us being only 2% of the population and, I would guess, only a fraction of a percent of voters in any given election it is a very very faint glimmer if not just a figment of our more outlandish fantasies.

There is a big effort to encourage higher education among our young people and pursuits of profeesions including but not limmited to political office, however, that in itself would be food for a entirely seperate thread that perhaps I will elaborate on at a later time. I hope this answers your question and if not I would be more then thankful for the oppertunity to elaborate further.

Ok...feeling like an idiot here...NDN?

If I'm understanding here correctly...sovereignty was promised then denied by the federal government, but, in the final analysis, it doesn't make a difference because NDNs consider themselves sovereign with or without the acknowledgment from the federal government.  Keeping that in mind, since this federal government currently imposes a legal system upon NDNs, it is important for NDNs to participate by voting, and if compelled to do so, running for political office until that sovereignty is recognized?  Or did I completely misinterpret?

[walksalone11]

The demographic I belong to(Indigenous to this continent) currently makes up a mere 2% of the population. Many of our Nations are supposed to be "sovereign".

Often is the time, that one bill or the other, that further erodes our rights to self determination, comes before the law makers of the US. Now, even if it were possible to get every "Indun" on Turtle Island to the polls to cast a vote, which of course it isnt, we are still so vastly out voted that we have absolutely no say what so ever in the matters that effect us the most.

Do you think this is right? Or should we just get over that too and bend back over?

It isn't right.  Your land was colonized by "aliens" and you were forced to assimilate.  From what I understand, the law says you are a nation within yourselves (please correct me if I am wrong).  You shouldn't have to vote in American elections or attempt to elect people to the American government, because being sovereign means you are a country unto yourselves.  As far as I know, the Vatican does not have a say in Italian politics, and Washington, D.C. is not a part of Virginia's state governance...so why should we expect that of sovereign indigenous states?

Thanks Amy you bring up some very interesting points here and I will do my best to give you "my" take on them.

Actually, although we inhabitted Turtle Island, it is said, and we are taught today, that we do not own the land, so technically no it wasn't "our" land. Each tribal group did however inhabit and defend certain geographical areas but it was more about groceries rather than real estate.

Yes the land was colonized by "aliens"(no green card no less) and we still call them colonizers today

There was and very much is attempts to force us to assimilate, and in fact many did, however even more did and continue to refuse, hence, the tensions of past as well as modern times.

There are treaties that "grant, lol: us sovereignty, however, number one, sovereignty only applies to the Nations that the feds decide it does and two of the over 300 treaties, not one is unbroken by the U.S.

However, regardless of US and other perceptions we, traditionals, maintain our inherant right to sovereignty.
Also there is much inner-tribal squabbling concerning this right and those who excercise our citizenship status.

I mean, how do you insist on sovereignty then in the next breath talk about some NDN canidate running for government office?
That would be comparable to me saying I am going to run for office in russia or Germany for instance.

However, with a deck stacked so heavily against us, we are forced to try and explore every avenue available to us.

The US granted all NDNs citizenship, although, it was designed as yet another assimilating attempt, but it does give us just a glimmer of hope of using the fact to the betterment of our peoples.

So, in that light, I do support NDN candidates and NDN voting in US elections, however, as I have previously stated in my OP with us being only 2% of the population and, I would guess, only a fraction of a percent of voters in any given election it is a very very faint glimmer if not just a figment of our more outlandish fantasies.

There is a big effort to encourage higher education among our young people and pursuits of profeesions including but not limmited to political office, however, that in itself would be food for a entirely seperate thread that perhaps I will elaborate on at a later time. I hope this answers your question and if not I would be more then thankful for the oppertunity to elaborate further.

Ok...feeling like an idiot here...NDN?

If I'm understanding here correctly...sovereignty was promised then denied by the federal government, but, in the final analysis, it doesn't make a difference because NDNs consider themselves sovereign with or without the acknowledgment from the federal government.  Keeping that in mind, since this federal government currently imposes a legal system upon NDNs, it is important for NDNs to participate by voting, and if compelled to do so, running for political office until that sovereignty is recognized?  Or did I completely misinterpret?

Sorry for the delay.....
NDN

N

D

N



now say it three times real fast, ;0)

Sovereignty.....only tribes who have been given federal recognition have been also "granted" sovereign status. However, even with them it depends on the issue at hand. The government often times has a convenient lapse of amnesia when it benefits them to.

Yes it very much matters.
Last year there was a big ruckus because the tribes are "allowed" to define for themselves what enrollment criteria they will adhere to. The people of the Cherokee Nation voted to dis-enroll all "freedmen" members who had absolutely no NDN blood. The government and many politicians about chit themselves(thats "*bleep*" Daddy Mack) and there were loud threats that if all of these folks were not given their original enrollment status then the CN's federally recognition status would be revoked.

As for laws being impossed on our Nations, that gets very complicated indeed. If an enrolled NDN commits a crime on any reservation, the US has no jurisdiction. However, if the person is not enrolled(in a federally recognized tribe) then they do.

If any person, commits a crime on reservation land, and is tried in tribal court, it used to be that the longest sentence the US would allow the tribal court to impose was three years. Recently that was modified to, I think, 7 years. No matter the crime, rape, murder what ever, thats all the time the court can impose.

So, in a nut shell, our sovereign status is, well,........you decide.

[amyrouse]

OK...LOL on the NDN explanation. 

It sounds like, from your description, that the sovereignty being granted by the federal government isn't true sovereignty because they can't seem to keep their fingers out of the pot.  Still, it doesn't sound any different from what the government has been doing for years.  I'd be P/O'd.