The Official God Thread - To Discuss God and Seek Answers

[amyrouse]

The no vowels in hebrew arguement is fallacious. You could say that about every word in the hebrew language.  

Traditionally there were no vowels in the Hebrew language.  Your point is?

During translations, vowels were added...to most words.  They were not added, however, to the tetragrammaton.  The JW's did this, without any knowledge of the language, and they continue to deny this to this day.

I would like to hear you tell my rabbi, who has been studying and teaching this for decades, to all religions, that this argument is fallacious.  He's the one that informed me of this...while teaching me Hebrew.  Or do you really claim that the JW's have a head up on everyone because they are the ones that really know g-d's name, and they decided to spread that information to the rest of the world?  

[tammyrwa]

The things in the bible are facts if you believe them- there are many things that have not been proven as fact- scientists are still studying them, but people accept it, but they continue to say that the things that happened in the bible are not factual- I believe they happened, and that is all the proof I need. I would rather believe that the supreme being (God) created me , than to believe the ridiculous notion that we came from apes. I would rather believe that if I live for God that he will give me a reward of being in heaven with him forever than believe that I will come back as a bug or flower. I would rather believe that God created this beautiful earth and all of the wonders of creation than believe it just somehow showed up on its own- why wouldn't you?. Man wrote the bible as inspired by God- an autubiography if you will, written by the prophets, apostles, and disciples hand picked by God himself- what an honor. Christianity is not a "snob" religion, there are some, of course like anyone  who misuse the priviledge, but no true Christian believes he or she is better than anyone- just forgiven. The bible says there will only be 144,000 people  I plan to be one of them- I don't know why God chose that number- I asume that it is because 144,00 angels (1/3 of heaven) with satan fell to the earth when rebelled against God- I suppose that that is seperate from the "number" that couldn't be numbered that John talked about in the bible- I would have to read up on it. the Jehovah Witnesses put a lot of emphasis on that, but they lack in other areas of truth in the bible. There is nothing false about hebrew text- you have to study it to really understand it.

[amyrouse]

I get what you're saying, Tammy, and I agree to a point.  It doesn't matter to me whether the Bible is factual or not...there is something to be learned from reading it.  It doesn't matter to me who wrote the holy book, either.  And, if g-d didn't exist...wouldn't change my outlook on life one bit.

A big difference I see, though, is this: the Hebrew language was originally written without vowels...so therefore, every word written in the Bible (or, for me, the Tanakh) was written without a vowel.  This means, the possibility for translation is endless...each story has a possibility of different interpretations for different people...so what I get from the holy book isn't necessarily what someone else will get from the same book.  Therefore, it is not up to me to try to get someone to follow my version of what happened...or to even follow the holy book at all. 

I also see science, though, and cannot deny its validity.  Science has helped me in having a child when it seems I shouldn't have been able to.  Science keeps me warm in the winter and cool in the summer.  Science has saved my life when I've been sick, and the lives of those I love.  Why is it so hard to believe we may come from a common ancestor?  An ape is one of g-d's creations, too, is it not?  Pulling Godwin's law into the equation here again...I'd rather have an ape for a cousin than a Hitler...

[queenofnines]

they continue to say that the things that happened in the bible are not factual- I believe they happened, and that is all the proof I need.

You will fall victim to many a scam in your life with an attitude like that.  Skepticism is healthy and is the default position.

I would rather believe that the supreme being (God) created me , than to believe the ridiculous notion that we came from apes.

So you'd rather believe in "what feels good" at all costs in lieu of the actual truth?  Well at least you're honest in that regard.  You're in good company...the main reason so many people can't let go of their unfounded beliefs is because they're terrified of a reality without them.

I would rather believe that if I live for God that he will give me a reward of being in heaven with him forever than believe that I will come back as a bug or flower.

Hmm, a lot more people believe in actual death than reincarnation.  Why didn't you address that?  You're sentence should read:

I would rather believe that if I live for God that he will give me a reward of being in heaven with him forever than believe that this life is it; when you die, you are actually dead.

I would rather believe that God created this beautiful earth and all of the wonders of creation than believe it just somehow showed up on its own- why wouldn't you?

Why are the good things of the world any less good without a god?  Actually, they are infinitely more precious BECAUSE they didn't appear by magic and BECAUSE they won't last forever.

[jordandog]

I would rather believe that the supreme being (God) created me , than to believe the ridiculous notion that we came from apes.

Go ahead and call me crazy. I really am beginning to think there is a secret message on FC that only new posters who believe in god and the Bible are able to view. It specifically instructs all of them to make sure they include the above idea in any topic/discussion dealing with even the slightest hint of where man came from. I hope to one day be able to crack that code and wipe it off this site - permanently! It will then be replaced with this, which they will be required to type and say out loud 100 times, before permission is given to access the site each time they come on:

We did NOT evolve from apes, but share a common ancestor.

[amyrouse]

The no vowels in hebrew arguement is fallacious.

Your proof of this? I am very interested in seeing a reply from one person in particular if she sees this one. It is basically taking the initial premise of the Jewish/Hebrew faith, it's guidelines, and the interpretation of all it's texts and saying they are false.

I really take no offense from someone who would dismiss an entire argument/explanation based solely on the fact that they think they know Hebrew better than someone who studies and teaches the language and would say "the no vowels argument is fallacious because there were no vowels in the language" then would take the translation for pure fact when there were, in fact, NO VOWELS...seems to me someone should study logic... 

[jcribb16]

I would rather believe that the supreme being (God) created me , than to believe the ridiculous notion that we came from apes.

Go ahead and call me crazy. I really am beginning to think there is a secret message on FC that only new posters who believe in god and the Bible are able to view. It specifically instructs all of them to make sure they include the above idea in any topic/discussion dealing with even the slightest hint of where man came from. I hope to one day be able to crack that code and wipe it off this site - permanently! It will then be replaced with this, which they will be required to type and say out loud 100 times, before permission is given to access the site each time they come on:

We did NOT evolve from apes, but share a common ancestor.

Could you please explain who and/or what the common ancestor was and the proof? Thank you.

[jordandog]

I would rather believe that the supreme being (God) created me , than to believe the ridiculous notion that we came from apes.

Go ahead and call me crazy. I really am beginning to think there is a secret message on FC that only new posters who believe in god and the Bible are able to view. It specifically instructs all of them to make sure they include the above idea in any topic/discussion dealing with even the slightest hint of where man came from. I hope to one day be able to crack that code and wipe it off this site - permanently! It will then be replaced with this, which they will be required to type and say out loud 100 times, before permission is given to access the site each time they come on:

We did NOT evolve from apes, but share a common ancestor.

Could you please explain who and/or what the common ancestor was and the proof? Thank you.

We have been over this particular point countless times and in many different threads. Please don't think I am being rude, but I have no desire to back through it all again - it gives me a headache even thinking of that. I'm sure if you go to the main forum page and do a search on 'evolution' you will see the threads I am referring to.

Marie, you have been in many, if not all, of those discussions so I'm sure you know what I am talking about.

[jcribb16]

Apparently I'm still new enough to maybe not have seen those you are discussing (forums.)  There are so many new people coming in and out, also, that haven't.  Anyway, I, myself, already know what you think evolution is and it is not believable, just as you think creation is not believable.  The question was put to you for a direct answer back for others to see. But that's fine, don't worry about it.

[Annella]

The things in the bible are facts if you believe them- there are many things that have not been proven as fact- scientists are still studying them, but people accept it, but they continue to say that the things that happened in the bible are not factual- I believe they happened, and that is all the proof I need. I would rather believe that the supreme being (God) created me , than to believe the ridiculous notion that we came from apes. I would rather believe that if I live for God that he will give me a reward of being in heaven with him forever than believe that I will come back as a bug or flower. I would rather believe that God created this beautiful earth and all of the wonders of creation than believe it just somehow showed up on its own- why wouldn't you?. Man wrote the bible as inspired by God- an autubiography if you will, written by the prophets, apostles, and disciples hand picked by God himself- what an honor. Christianity is not a "snob" religion, there are some, of course like anyone  who misuse the priviledge, but no true Christian believes he or she is better than anyone- just forgiven. The bible says there will only be 144,000 people  I plan to be one of them- I don't know why God chose that number- I asume that it is because 144,00 angels (1/3 of heaven) with satan fell to the earth when rebelled against God- I suppose that that is seperate from the "number" that couldn't be numbered that John talked about in the bible- I would have to read up on it. the Jehovah Witnesses put a lot of emphasis on that, but they lack in other areas of truth in the bible. There is nothing false about hebrew text- you have to study it to really understand it.

The JW's who count themselves in the 144,000 are way off the mark.  So is any Christian who puts themselves in that number.  I've posted this before, so here it is again.  For those of you who believe the Bible, go to the 7th Chapter of Revelation.  This chapter addresses the 144,000.  They are ALL Jews.  From each tribe of the children of Israel, 12,000 are taken from each tribe (Dan, Levi, Rueben, Benjamin, etc.).  These tribes were established in the OT, which are the lineage of Abraham, Jacob and Isaac.  

Now....skim down to the 9th verse (7th chapter of Revelation), where there is a multitude without number, these are they which washed their robes in the blood of the lamb (Jesus).  A white robe is spoken of as symbolizing the "righteousness" of the Saints".  This crowd without number are those who are born again (Christians).  We are the ones redeemed by Christ's blood, and wear white robes (as the bride of Christ).  This "symbolic" title is always referred to as the "Church", or body of Christ.

You have to take the study of the whole Bible of the Jews, us, etc., and put it all together concerning the end of days, and what is done, and why God is doing it.

[Annella]

Marieelissa, your picture of the little Chipmunk, Squirrel, or whatever it is, in a "praying stance" is adorable!  You find the cutest things.

[amyrouse]

Some websites about common ancestry:

http://www.actionbioscience.org/newfrontiers/poolearticle.html

Wikipedia's answer, although I'm not a huge fan of Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Most_recent_common_ancestor

Smithsonian: http://humanorigins.si.edu/resources/intro-human-evolution

PBS: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/humans/humankind/

...and Mitochondrial Eve: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38786481/ns/technology_and_science-science/



And, welcome back, again, Annella!

[Annella]

I'm just in and out for awhile.  Be back next week for real.

[queenofnines]

I get we share a common ancester, but weren't these common ancestors parents the apes...

No, they were neither ape nor human.

[jcribb16]

Thanks for adding the part about the 144,000, Annella.  It's great to see you back on here, even if just for a few days.  But, we will see you next week, "for real!!"