The Official God Thread - To Discuss God and Seek Answers

[Annella]

This is why there are no laws making protests outside abortion clinics illegal and why the KKK can have rallies...yes, religious groups are behind those, too.

I took the above quote from you and made a joke about it.  There have been statements lumping all Christians into one pot for the cause of blaming Christians in general for the worlds woes, or why their people have not progressed.  You have not done that.

I made no inference to make you think I'm calling you on your statement of being God's chosen people.  Please don't take offense to my last paragraph.  It was just a statement of fact from a Biblical standpoint....nothing more. I've been to Israel, and seen the devotion the Jews have toward God.  I was deeply convicted knowing my devotion fell short.  It seems I offended you in my last paragraph, and that was NOT my intention at all......I apologize

On the plane coming into Israel one morning, I witnessed some Jews, get up in the aisle and point toward East and pray with their tallits on, and their prayer books.  It made a very lasting impression on me.  Their love and devotion to God was evident, and they didn't care who saw them, or what people thought of them.

[amyrouse]

I have gone back through and discovered the source of the issue here:

First off, there are many other religions that have done wrong in the name of their religion- why are you just targeting Christians?- the Muslims have done terrible things in the name of religion, and I don't see you slamming them. Second, there is no proof that hell doesn't exist- what do you think is going to happen after we die?. Third, bad things happen to everyone, including Christians, calamities, tragedies, and sadness happen to them also- are you saying that once you become a christian that nothing bad should happen?- things also happen to people Christian or not because of unbelief, and God can only warn us, and if we choose not to listen, we suffer the consequences, ie; you have a feeling that you shouldn't go to a certain place, you have a bad feeling, but you choose to go anyway, it is not God's fault- you were warned.

That is where the comments from Jordandog and myself came from.  Then:

I have this happen to me on a fairly regular basis, always have, but I do NOT attribute it to 'god warning me'. It is instinct, a highly acute sense of myself and my surroundings that I have developed over the years and, in some cases, a memory of a prior experience with something or someone I cannot quite put my finger on. It is how and why our brains work the way they do ie to help us survive. It is no different really than an animal that has had a close encounter with a predator and at some point later on is in that same situation/surroundings, senses that something is not right, but continues in their action. Sometimes they escape in one piece, sometimes they are injured, and at times they become dinner. That is a very simplified breakdown, but I think it gets my point across.  

I think you said it well, Jordandog.

A good example...the moment I laid eyes on the man that raped me, I wanted to run in the other direction as fast as possible, but I didn't.  If that was g-d telling me to leave, then why didn't g-d remove me from the situation instead of trying to do some psychic mumbo jumbo on me?  

One of the core concepts of Christianity is that God leaves us with the decision...starts back with Adam and Eve having the choice to take Satan's bait or not to...

So...what you're saying here is that g-d warned me to run away and since I didn't it was my fault I was raped?  Thats  

And don't get me started on the interpretation of Adam and Eve, because I definitely don't agree with you there...

HOW DARE YOU put those words in my mouth. Don't you dare EVER make me out to sound like a careless human being. I meant God didn't just REMOVE you from the situtation because he doesn't just POOF make us disappear from bad situations. But whatever, if you want to be petty and put words in my mouth that's fine I dont want to be a part of it.

I'm not the one who is trying to make anyone out to be anything here.  It is a reasonable conclusion to make based on your words.  Your words did offend me, though.  That is a very careless thing to say to a rape survivor...and you turning it around on me like that is even more offensive.  I am a believer...I wholeheartedly believe and love g-d, but I would never say that g-d failed to protect me from being raped...just like I would never say my mother is the cause of my rape because she gave birth to me.  I don't see me as being the petty one here, but each person has a different view.  

I just read the words as they are written, and I cannot see your intention behind them.  The words as they were written were highly offensive and  .  Of course g-d doesn't just remove us from bad situations because g-d is not active in our world...that instinct of mine was not g-d warning me but a survival instinct that I ignored.  G-d loves me and would not willingly allow me to be harmed if g-d was actively participating in that time and place...just like my parents would never have sat idly by and allowed it to happen.

Your attitude, though, remains offensive to me.  It seems to me that you think that I am out to make you look like a bad person, and I'm not.  I think you are a smart and intelligent young woman who, while you may lack in some life experiences due to your young age, adds something to this forum when you are not jumping down the throats of those with whom you disagree.  But, whatever, I do not want any part of your defensive attitude.

Cool?

It's not a constant defensive attitude. It simply irritates me that you made it sound like I was in any way saying being raped was your fault. That's crap. I wasn't even responding to the fact that you were raped, I was responding to the comment of "why didn't God just remove me from the situation." The man who violated you has free will as we all do, he made the choice to do an evil, awful thing. It's not your fault it's his fault. I was simply pointing out that the reason it happened is because we DO have free will, all of us, not just the good ones. I was in no way trying to say you were at fault for being raped, that is ludicrous and something like that would NEVER come out of my mouth, and it offended me that you would make it seem as such. It's a horrible thing to have happened and is one of the worst things that ever takes place in our world and I would never ever say anyone in any way asked for it. That is NEVER the situation. I was ONLY responding to the God aspect.

I have seen through the responses that although the intention wasn't there, the words were still offensive.  I replied to this out of anger and hurt and offense, and was harsh.  I could have been much harsher, but I wasn't.  I will take this opportunity to apologize for the harshness of my words; however, your words are just that: your words.  You either stand by them, or correct them and apologize for the offense they have caused.  I may stand alone here, but I believe I deserve an apology in this case.  I never said you had a constant defensive attitude...just that your attitude here (and other places where you have been confronted by those who disagree with you) has been defensive.  And, honestly, you'll catch more flies with honey.  If you spend all your time with a chip on your shoulder then you won't do anything for your side of the argument other than turn more people away.

[amyrouse]

This is why there are no laws making protests outside abortion clinics illegal and why the KKK can have rallies...yes, religious groups are behind those, too.

I took the above quote from you and made a joke about it.  There have been statements lumping all Christians into one pot for the cause of blaming Christians in general for the worlds woes, or why their people have not progressed.  You have not done that.

I made no inference to make you think I'm calling you on your statement of being God's chosen people.  Please don't take offense to my last paragraph.  It was just a statement of fact from a Biblical standpoint....nothing more. I've been to Israel, and seen the devotion the Jews have toward God.  I was deeply convicted knowing my devotion fell short.  It seems I offended you in my last paragraph, and that was NOT my intention at all......I apologize

On the plane coming into Israel one morning, I witnessed some Jews, get up in the aisle and point toward East and pray with their tallits on, and their prayer books.  It made a very lasting impression on me.  Their love and devotion to God was evident, and they didn't care who saw them, or what people thought of them.

Ahh...didn't realize you were making a joke.  I freaked out for a minute there thinking that I'd upset you!  And I'm more than willing to further explain anything I've said because I hate the animosity miscommunication can garner.  I'll do anything I can to rectify a mistake if I've made one.   

You'll be interested to know that I spent Shabbat Shuvah at a temple I usually don't attend...and I was amazed.  I was afraid that the first time I ventured outside of my "home base" that I'd be uncomfortable, lost, and confused...but I wasn't!  Talk about a confirmation of faith.  The strangest thing, too...after services, the rabbi came up to me and told me she had enjoyed watching me sing.  Still not sure what to think about that!

[Annella]

I have gone back through and discovered the source of the issue here:

First off, there are many other religions that have done wrong in the name of their religion- why are you just targeting Christians?- the Muslims have done terrible things in the name of religion, and I don't see you slamming them. Second, there is no proof that hell doesn't exist- what do you think is going to happen after we die?. Third, bad things happen to everyone, including Christians, calamities, tragedies, and sadness happen to them also- are you saying that once you become a christian that nothing bad should happen?- things also happen to people Christian or not because of unbelief, and God can only warn us, and if we choose not to listen, we suffer the consequences, ie; you have a feeling that you shouldn't go to a certain place, you have a bad feeling, but you choose to go anyway, it is not God's fault- you were warned.

That is where the comments from Jordandog and myself came from.  Then:

I have this happen to me on a fairly regular basis, always have, but I do NOT attribute it to 'god warning me'. It is instinct, a highly acute sense of myself and my surroundings that I have developed over the years and, in some cases, a memory of a prior experience with something or someone I cannot quite put my finger on. It is how and why our brains work the way they do ie to help us survive. It is no different really than an animal that has had a close encounter with a predator and at some point later on is in that same situation/surroundings, senses that something is not right, but continues in their action. Sometimes they escape in one piece, sometimes they are injured, and at times they become dinner. That is a very simplified breakdown, but I think it gets my point across.  

I think you said it well, Jordandog.

A good example...the moment I laid eyes on the man that raped me, I wanted to run in the other direction as fast as possible, but I didn't.  If that was g-d telling me to leave, then why didn't g-d remove me from the situation instead of trying to do some psychic mumbo jumbo on me?  

One of the core concepts of Christianity is that God leaves us with the decision...starts back with Adam and Eve having the choice to take Satan's bait or not to...

So...what you're saying here is that g-d warned me to run away and since I didn't it was my fault I was raped?  Thats  

And don't get me started on the interpretation of Adam and Eve, because I definitely don't agree with you there...

HOW DARE YOU put those words in my mouth. Don't you dare EVER make me out to sound like a careless human being. I meant God didn't just REMOVE you from the situtation because he doesn't just POOF make us disappear from bad situations. But whatever, if you want to be petty and put words in my mouth that's fine I dont want to be a part of it.

I'm not the one who is trying to make anyone out to be anything here.  It is a reasonable conclusion to make based on your words.  Your words did offend me, though.  That is a very careless thing to say to a rape survivor...and you turning it around on me like that is even more offensive.  I am a believer...I wholeheartedly believe and love g-d, but I would never say that g-d failed to protect me from being raped...just like I would never say my mother is the cause of my rape because she gave birth to me.  I don't see me as being the petty one here, but each person has a different view.  

I just read the words as they are written, and I cannot see your intention behind them.  The words as they were written were highly offensive and  .  Of course g-d doesn't just remove us from bad situations because g-d is not active in our world...that instinct of mine was not g-d warning me but a survival instinct that I ignored.  G-d loves me and would not willingly allow me to be harmed if g-d was actively participating in that time and place...just like my parents would never have sat idly by and allowed it to happen.

Your attitude, though, remains offensive to me.  It seems to me that you think that I am out to make you look like a bad person, and I'm not.  I think you are a smart and intelligent young woman who, while you may lack in some life experiences due to your young age, adds something to this forum when you are not jumping down the throats of those with whom you disagree.  But, whatever, I do not want any part of your defensive attitude.

Cool?

It's not a constant defensive attitude. It simply irritates me that you made it sound like I was in any way saying being raped was your fault. That's crap. I wasn't even responding to the fact that you were raped, I was responding to the comment of "why didn't God just remove me from the situation." The man who violated you has free will as we all do, he made the choice to do an evil, awful thing. It's not your fault it's his fault. I was simply pointing out that the reason it happened is because we DO have free will, all of us, not just the good ones. I was in no way trying to say you were at fault for being raped, that is ludicrous and something like that would NEVER come out of my mouth, and it offended me that you would make it seem as such. It's a horrible thing to have happened and is one of the worst things that ever takes place in our world and I would never ever say anyone in any way asked for it. That is NEVER the situation. I was ONLY responding to the God aspect.

I have seen through the responses that although the intention wasn't there, the words were still offensive.  I replied to this out of anger and hurt and offense, and was harsh.  I could have been much harsher, but I wasn't.  I will take this opportunity to apologize for the harshness of my words; however, your words are just that: your words.  You either stand by them, or correct them and apologize for the offense they have caused.  I may stand alone here, but I believe I deserve an apology in this case.  I never said you had a constant defensive attitude...just that your attitude here (and other places where you have been confronted by those who disagree with you) has been defensive.  And, honestly, you'll catch more flies with honey.  If you spend all your time with a chip on your shoulder then you won't do anything for your side of the argument other than turn more people away.

Amy, I've read Mackenzie's last paragraph, and she seems genuinely on your side.  Even stating that it was the most horrible thing that should happen to you.  

As far as her attitude.  My goodness, do you even realize how people talk to Christians on here?  Being a Christian on here is a defense of our values, morals and just the fact that we believe the Bible.  Mackenzie has every right to defend what she believes just like everyone else on here.  Christians are targeted on here all the time.  She does not seem to have a chip on her shoulder.  

I've said this before, and I'll say it again.  Everything is fine, as long as we agree with what is dished out to us.  The minute we stick up for ourselves or say something about what the Word of God says.....the fight is on.  Not just what we say....but an attack to our character also.  

I wish I could sleep.  This has been a long day...........

[amyrouse]

Amy, I've read Mackenzie's last paragraph, and she seems genuinely on your side.  Even stating that it was the most horrible thing that should happen to you.  

As far as her attitude.  My goodness, do you even realize how people talk to Christians on here?  Being a Christian on here is a defense of our values, morals and just the fact that we believe the Bible.  Mackenzie has every right to defend what she believes just like everyone else on here.  Christians are targeted on here all the time.  She does not seem to have a chip on her shoulder.  

I've said this before, and I'll say it again.  Everything is fine, as long as we agree with what is dished out to us.  The minute we stick up for ourselves or say something about what the Word of God says.....the fight is on.  Not just what we say....but an attack to our character also.  

I wish I could sleep.  This has been a long day...........

I agree that she has every right to defend what she believes.  I also believe, though, that people should take responsibility for their actions.  She is rationalizing, not taking responsibility here...and it is hard to admit when you are wrong.  I have seen no admission on her part here.

And I have seen how people talk to Christians on here...and I see how I talk to people on here...I take it all in.  I have to defend myself, too, not only to the non-believers because I have faith, but to many Christians as well because I disagree with scriptural interpretation.  It is beyond my control how other people behave, but I do have a responsibility for my actions.  I try to rectify it when I have done something wrong...or can be interpreted as being wrong. 

In all honesty...since Mackenzie has been on here, I personally have felt that she has dished nothing but contempt and a defensive attitude toward me...no matter how I try to act toward her.  I just lost it when she said what she said and then attacked me for it...because she did attack me.  Even in her last paragraph her words are harsh and non-apologetic.

I'm pretty sure that sleep will hit you like a brick wall soon...and you'll get that nice 20 hour nap that I can only dream about...LOL

[Annella]

Amy, I've read Mackenzie's last paragraph, and she seems genuinely on your side.  Even stating that it was the most horrible thing that should happen to you.  

As far as her attitude.  My goodness, do you even realize how people talk to Christians on here?  Being a Christian on here is a defense of our values, morals and just the fact that we believe the Bible.  Mackenzie has every right to defend what she believes just like everyone else on here.  Christians are targeted on here all the time.  She does not seem to have a chip on her shoulder.  

I've said this before, and I'll say it again.  Everything is fine, as long as we agree with what is dished out to us.  The minute we stick up for ourselves or say something about what the Word of God says.....the fight is on.  Not just what we say....but an attack to our character also.  

I wish I could sleep.  This has been a long day...........

I agree that she has every right to defend what she believes.  I also believe, though, that people should take responsibility for their actions.  She is rationalizing, not taking responsibility here...and it is hard to admit when you are wrong.  I have seen no admission on her part here.

And I have seen how people talk to Christians on here...and I see how I talk to people on here...I take it all in.  I have to defend myself, too, not only to the non-believers because I have faith, but to many Christians as well because I disagree with scriptural interpretation.  It is beyond my control how other people behave, but I do have a responsibility for my actions.  I try to rectify it when I have done something wrong...or can be interpreted as being wrong. 

In all honesty...since Mackenzie has been on here, I personally have felt that she has dished nothing but contempt and a defensive attitude toward me...no matter how I try to act toward her.  I just lost it when she said what she said and then attacked me for it...because she did attack me.  Even in her last paragraph her words are harsh and non-apologetic.

I'm pretty sure that sleep will hit you like a brick wall soon...and you'll get that nice 20 hour nap that I can only dream about...LOL

Yes, everybody must take responsibility for their actions.  However, we all miscommunicate into words what we are really feeling or what we may try to convey to someone else's post.  I've certainly pissed off people and had No intention of doing so.

I write Bible Study literature that is published by our publishing house....and it's strictly scripture, and interpretation, with more scripture (factual).  I'm very matter of fact (my Grandma was also).  I think working for the Gov't., only added to my writing style.  Dossiers are only factual incantations of the individuals.  The facts, and nothing but the facts Jack...lol

The written word is powerful, used either for good or bad.  Everybody should keep that in mind when posting to someone who has pushed a button.  If anyone on here suffered something devastating, I have to believe that everyone on here would rally around that person, no matter what they believe.  I could be wrong....but I hope that's the case.

Time to raid the fridge.

Oh if only.....zzzzzz for 20 hours.

[SurveyMack10]

I have gone back through and discovered the source of the issue here:

First off, there are many other religions that have done wrong in the name of their religion- why are you just targeting Christians?- the Muslims have done terrible things in the name of religion, and I don't see you slamming them. Second, there is no proof that hell doesn't exist- what do you think is going to happen after we die?. Third, bad things happen to everyone, including Christians, calamities, tragedies, and sadness happen to them also- are you saying that once you become a christian that nothing bad should happen?- things also happen to people Christian or not because of unbelief, and God can only warn us, and if we choose not to listen, we suffer the consequences, ie; you have a feeling that you shouldn't go to a certain place, you have a bad feeling, but you choose to go anyway, it is not God's fault- you were warned.

That is where the comments from Jordandog and myself came from.  Then:

I have this happen to me on a fairly regular basis, always have, but I do NOT attribute it to 'god warning me'. It is instinct, a highly acute sense of myself and my surroundings that I have developed over the years and, in some cases, a memory of a prior experience with something or someone I cannot quite put my finger on. It is how and why our brains work the way they do ie to help us survive. It is no different really than an animal that has had a close encounter with a predator and at some point later on is in that same situation/surroundings, senses that something is not right, but continues in their action. Sometimes they escape in one piece, sometimes they are injured, and at times they become dinner. That is a very simplified breakdown, but I think it gets my point across.  

I think you said it well, Jordandog.

A good example...the moment I laid eyes on the man that raped me, I wanted to run in the other direction as fast as possible, but I didn't.  If that was g-d telling me to leave, then why didn't g-d remove me from the situation instead of trying to do some psychic mumbo jumbo on me?  

One of the core concepts of Christianity is that God leaves us with the decision...starts back with Adam and Eve having the choice to take Satan's bait or not to...

So...what you're saying here is that g-d warned me to run away and since I didn't it was my fault I was raped?  Thats  

And don't get me started on the interpretation of Adam and Eve, because I definitely don't agree with you there...

HOW DARE YOU put those words in my mouth. Don't you dare EVER make me out to sound like a careless human being. I meant God didn't just REMOVE you from the situtation because he doesn't just POOF make us disappear from bad situations. But whatever, if you want to be petty and put words in my mouth that's fine I dont want to be a part of it.

I'm not the one who is trying to make anyone out to be anything here.  It is a reasonable conclusion to make based on your words.  Your words did offend me, though.  That is a very careless thing to say to a rape survivor...and you turning it around on me like that is even more offensive.  I am a believer...I wholeheartedly believe and love g-d, but I would never say that g-d failed to protect me from being raped...just like I would never say my mother is the cause of my rape because she gave birth to me.  I don't see me as being the petty one here, but each person has a different view.  

I just read the words as they are written, and I cannot see your intention behind them.  The words as they were written were highly offensive and  .  Of course g-d doesn't just remove us from bad situations because g-d is not active in our world...that instinct of mine was not g-d warning me but a survival instinct that I ignored.  G-d loves me and would not willingly allow me to be harmed if g-d was actively participating in that time and place...just like my parents would never have sat idly by and allowed it to happen.

Your attitude, though, remains offensive to me.  It seems to me that you think that I am out to make you look like a bad person, and I'm not.  I think you are a smart and intelligent young woman who, while you may lack in some life experiences due to your young age, adds something to this forum when you are not jumping down the throats of those with whom you disagree.  But, whatever, I do not want any part of your defensive attitude.

Cool?

It's not a constant defensive attitude. It simply irritates me that you made it sound like I was in any way saying being raped was your fault. That's crap. I wasn't even responding to the fact that you were raped, I was responding to the comment of "why didn't God just remove me from the situation." The man who violated you has free will as we all do, he made the choice to do an evil, awful thing. It's not your fault it's his fault. I was simply pointing out that the reason it happened is because we DO have free will, all of us, not just the good ones. I was in no way trying to say you were at fault for being raped, that is ludicrous and something like that would NEVER come out of my mouth, and it offended me that you would make it seem as such. It's a horrible thing to have happened and is one of the worst things that ever takes place in our world and I would never ever say anyone in any way asked for it. That is NEVER the situation. I was ONLY responding to the God aspect.

I have seen through the responses that although the intention wasn't there, the words were still offensive.  I replied to this out of anger and hurt and offense, and was harsh.  I could have been much harsher, but I wasn't.  I will take this opportunity to apologize for the harshness of my words; however, your words are just that: your words.  You either stand by them, or correct them and apologize for the offense they have caused.  I may stand alone here, but I believe I deserve an apology in this case.  I never said you had a constant defensive attitude...just that your attitude here (and other places where you have been confronted by those who disagree with you) has been defensive.  And, honestly, you'll catch more flies with honey.  If you spend all your time with a chip on your shoulder then you won't do anything for your side of the argument other than turn more people away.

I thought this discussion was done with. I felt I made it clear that I was in no way even addressing that you had been raped. I was simply addressing that free will applies to all people good and evil...I'm sorry that you ever in any way felt that I was justifying your rapist's actions. I was absolutely not trying to do that as I reiterated many times. Honestly, I purposely only responded to the part of your comment addressing free will because I felt I had no place to talk with you about something so personal. I do stand by my words that everyone has free will, however I did not mean for you to in any way feel like I was saying you were at fault for what happened to you.

Regarding the next part of your post, I don't get defensive when someone disagrees with me. I get defensive when I feel my words are twisted, when people are rude, or absolutely intolerant of other's thoughts. Before this gets misread, I am not directing those things towards you. However, I'm sure you're referring to other threads where I have probable seemed to get riled up. I do get defensive when trying to have a conversation about religion and I am openly respectful towards the beliefs of atheists, I disagree with them mind you but respect them nonetheless, only to have a select few tell me how utterly ignorant and unintelligent I am to have faith in a higher power. After a while responding nicely repeatedly doesn't get the point across, especially when they often take things out of context and just look for ways to twist words. I have gotten riled up in other threads, not because I disagree with people just because of the way they go about addressing my beliefs. I have a short fuse, but I tend to stay calm until someone is absolutely rude for no reason or until I feel like I have been attacked.

Earlier I did feel somewhat attacked when you responded harshly, so I responded back to you in the same way. Not because I disagreed with you about free will, but because I in no way even meant to address your rape and was only trying to address the free will aspect of it. I should have removed the rest of it from the quote, but I didn't and that's my fault. I don't have a problem admitting when I'm wrong however. What I said was not wrong, it was simply a miscommunication that happens when talking on a computer rather than with words. Again, I wasn't addressing your rape and apologize if your feelings were hurt when you thought so. Aside from that, your perception of me is a bit wrong, I'm not a negative defensive person, however if that's your opinion of me I'm fine with that and take no disheartening from it. After all none of us really know each other all too well from talking on a forum, and I often have trouble getting my point across without  being able to express what tone I'm saying things in. Anyway I have gone totally off the topic so I will go ahead and end this post before I continue rambling haha.

[SurveyMack10]

Amy, I've read Mackenzie's last paragraph, and she seems genuinely on your side.  Even stating that it was the most horrible thing that should happen to you.  

As far as her attitude.  My goodness, do you even realize how people talk to Christians on here?  Being a Christian on here is a defense of our values, morals and just the fact that we believe the Bible.  Mackenzie has every right to defend what she believes just like everyone else on here.  Christians are targeted on here all the time.  She does not seem to have a chip on her shoulder.  

I've said this before, and I'll say it again.  Everything is fine, as long as we agree with what is dished out to us.  The minute we stick up for ourselves or say something about what the Word of God says.....the fight is on.  Not just what we say....but an attack to our character also.  

I wish I could sleep.  This has been a long day...........

I agree that she has every right to defend what she believes.  I also believe, though, that people should take responsibility for their actions.  She is rationalizing, not taking responsibility here...and it is hard to admit when you are wrong.  I have seen no admission on her part here.

And I have seen how people talk to Christians on here...and I see how I talk to people on here...I take it all in.  I have to defend myself, too, not only to the non-believers because I have faith, but to many Christians as well because I disagree with scriptural interpretation.  It is beyond my control how other people behave, but I do have a responsibility for my actions.  I try to rectify it when I have done something wrong...or can be interpreted as being wrong. 

I did rectify what was interpreted wrong, but you took that as simply "rationalizing." I'm not quite sure what else can possibly be said. I NEVER said it was your fault you were raped, nor would I ever say it was anyone's fault they were raped. I'm not rationalizing, I'm telling you that's not what I meant because it isn't. If it was I would stick by it which I feel is clear from all other threads I've responded to.

[amyrouse]

I thought this discussion was done with. I felt I made it clear that I was in no way even addressing that you had been raped. I was simply addressing that free will applies to all people good and evil...I'm sorry that you ever in any way felt that I was justifying your rapist's actions. I was absolutely not trying to do that as I reiterated many times. Honestly, I purposely only responded to the part of your comment addressing free will because I felt I had no place to talk with you about something so personal. I do stand by my words that everyone has free will, however I did not mean for you to in any way feel like I was saying you were at fault for what happened to you.

Regarding the next part of your post, I don't get defensive when someone disagrees with me. I get defensive when I feel my words are twisted, when people are rude, or absolutely intolerant of other's thoughts. Before this gets misread, I am not directing those things towards you. However, I'm sure you're referring to other threads where I have probable seemed to get riled up. I do get defensive when trying to have a conversation about religion and I am openly respectful towards the beliefs of atheists, I disagree with them mind you but respect them nonetheless, only to have a select few tell me how utterly ignorant and unintelligent I am to have faith in a higher power. After a while responding nicely repeatedly doesn't get the point across, especially when they often take things out of context and just look for ways to twist words. I have gotten riled up in other threads, not because I disagree with people just because of the way they go about addressing my beliefs. I have a short fuse, but I tend to stay calm until someone is absolutely rude for no reason or until I feel like I have been attacked.

Earlier I did feel somewhat attacked when you responded harshly, so I responded back to you in the same way. Not because I disagreed with you about free will, but because I in no way even meant to address your rape and was only trying to address the free will aspect of it. I should have removed the rest of it from the quote, but I didn't and that's my fault. I don't have a problem admitting when I'm wrong however. What I said was not wrong, it was simply a miscommunication that happens when talking on a computer rather than with words. Again, I wasn't addressing your rape and apologize if your feelings were hurt when you thought so. Aside from that, your perception of me is a bit wrong, I'm not a negative defensive person, however if that's your opinion of me I'm fine with that and take no disheartening from it. After all none of us really know each other all too well from talking on a forum, and I often have trouble getting my point across without  being able to express what tone I'm saying things in. Anyway I have gone totally off the topic so I will go ahead and end this post before I continue rambling haha.

It has been a long night of wills for me where my two year old is concerned, so while it may appear that I have been online for awhile, I haven't really.  Plus, if something bothers me, it will eat at me until I figure out what I need to say to get it off my chest.  Annella has witnessed this same thing from me in the past.  I have a tendency to sit on something at times rather than say something I may regret...however, this is not the way it is at all times with me, and I do fly off the handle.  I try to own it and apologize when I do this.

I believe that words are the most powerful tools and weapons known to humankind...therefore, I try to be as careful as possible when using words.  Scripture says that the universe was created by the power of words (whether or not the universe was created that way, I do not know, but the validity of the strength of words is there), and the most powerful experiences I feel with regards to my religion are when I speak the same words that were spoken in biblical times.  So I want to do my utmost to explain myself here...my words are all I have to do so.

I have said before and I'll say it again: I think you're a pretty smart cookie.  Lord knows how its going to look when you've completed college...and once you've spent a few years outside of school, either with a family or a career, I'm sure you'll be a force to be reckoned with.  Its not often you'll see a 19 year old hold her own in political and religious discussion.  You actually remind me of a conservative version of myself when I was in college.  Now...whether or not I agree with you on the topics is beside the point...I try my best to not base my interpretation of a person's character on whether or not they disagree with me.

To make a long post short, thank you for your apology.  Sometimes things being said in the simplest terms are the most powerful.   


As for the rationalization part...you skirted the issue until I called you out on it.  You did everything but apologize for the mistake. 

[Annella]

if someone calls you retarded its cause they are afraid of how smart you are

Please actually read the whole thread before you respond.  lol

wow, that was retarded!!  sorry, couldnt resist!!!

Hey you need to be a bit nicer.  That was a newbie and you were rude for no reason.  Anyone can post anywhere they want qon.  What they posted was totally on point and pertinent to the subject of the thread.  Unless your lol at the end was meant as a joke?

Tzs, To call someone retarded is not cool under any circumstances.  I wonder if they feel like posting in D&D again. If you can't resist, then maybe you should not be posting until you can obtain some self control.  I realize that you were commenting on qon telling the newbie to read the thread before they posted, but doesn't justify being rude.

[queenofnines]

As a whole, the men that drew up the Constitution were godly men (research or read their Bios).

Correction: Most were Deists...a.k.a. NOT Christians.  There are many quotes where the Founding Fathers are trashing your Christian god!  Are you sure they were on "your side"? 

"In God We Trust" is on our money.

Not until the '50s due to Communism and anyway, big whoop.  IT STILL VIOLATES THE CONSTITUTION.

We say "One Nation Under God" in our pledge to the flag.

Not in the original pledge, folks.  Geez, are people really this ignorant??

Our Nation was founded on Godly principles and morals.  You cannot deny that.

No they weren't.  It is you who is denying the secular foundation.  Separation of church and state?  Yeah, you lost that one.

We were founded on Christian morals and values.

You're going to have to define what you mean here because like I said before, if you followed just a fraction of what the Bible says, you'd get your butt thrown in jail so fast.  Just because the majority of people ascribe to the Christian religion in this country does NOT mean we were founded on "Christian morals and values".  What a completely disgraceful thing to say to all of the people of OTHER religions living in this country.

this foundation is being eroded little by little to usher in a New World Order.  Which, by the way, is in the Bible also.

You're delusional if you think proper civil rights for all is a bad thing.

Those of you who don't believe the Bible and really hate Christianity, why don't you all go live in countries that have the same beliefs that you do?  There are countries that will welcome you with open arms, and help you "trash" any Christian beliefs...Or just live for 6 months in one of these countries.  Not a 2 week vacation, but actually live there.  Your eyes would be wide open.

Heh, this is the funny thing about forums: you end up looking silly when you don't realize who you're talking to.  I HAVE been to 20 countries and LIVED in Europe for 2.5 years.  I must say, it was quite refreshing not having god smeared in my face everywhere I went.  Several "atheistic" European countries rank in the top ten for overall health and happiness...America is like #86 on the list.

However, where I lived there were still plenty of reasons to favor America more that had nothing to do with religion.  Lack of shopping/entertainment facilities, for example.

[Annella]

As a whole, the men that drew up the Constitution were godly men (research or read their Bios).

Correction: Most were Deists...a.k.a. NOT Christians.  There are many quotes where the Founding Fathers are trashing your Christian god!  Are you sure they were on "your side"?  

"In God We Trust" is on our money.

Not until the '50s due to Communism and anyway, big whoop.  IT STILL VIOLATES THE CONSTITUTION.

We say "One Nation Under God" in our pledge to the flag.

Not in the original pledge, folks.  Geez, are people really this ignorant??

Our Nation was founded on Godly principles and morals.  You cannot deny that.

No they weren't.  It is you who is denying the secular foundation.  Separation of church and state?  Yeah, you lost that one.

We were founded on Christian morals and values.

You're going to have to define what you mean here because like I said before, if you followed just a fraction of what the Bible says, you'd get your butt thrown in jail so fast.  Just because the majority of people ascribe to the Christian religion in this country does NOT mean we were founded on "Christian morals and values".  What a completely disgraceful thing to say to all of the people of OTHER religions living in this country.

this foundation is being eroded little by little to usher in a New World Order.  Which, by the way, is in the Bible also.

You're delusional if you think proper civil rights for all is a bad thing.

Those of you who don't believe the Bible and really hate Christianity, why don't you all go live in countries that have the same beliefs that you do?  There are countries that will welcome you with open arms, and help you "trash" any Christian beliefs...Or just live for 6 months in one of these countries.  Not a 2 week vacation, but actually live there.  Your eyes would be wide open.

Heh, this is the funny thing about forums: you end up looking silly when you don't realize who you're talking to.  I HAVE been to 20 countries and LIVED in Europe for 2.5 years.  I must say, it was quite refreshing not having god smeared in my face everywhere I went.  Several "atheistic" European countries rank in the top ten for overall health and happiness...America is like #86 on the list.

However, where I lived there were still plenty of reasons to favor America more that had nothing to do with religion.  Lack of shopping/entertainment facilities, for example.

I've answered most of this in another post, so I'll just skim here.  Most of our founding fathers were NOT Deists....I've studied out history, and read most of the Bios of the signers of the DOI, and most were Christians.  Amy who is a Political Science major, among other accomplishments says they were religious followers also.  The early colonists were not Deists either.  Where are you getting your information?

The money, and pledge was addressed in the other post.  Since I did not know when both were added, I admitted so.

Why is my comment that our country was founded on Christian morals a disgrace to other religions?  When our nation was formed, it was the colonists escaping England tyranny for their pursuit of Freedom of Religion.  they wrote it in.  Maybe I'm not understanding your statement.

Civil rights and New World Order are totally different things.  They aren't even in the same category.

I'm talking about countries that have no freedom, except what the recent dictator or so called government decides what is best for them.  Just because you've been in European countries doesn't mean you've been in any I'm talking about.  How about some Middle Eastern countries?  Communist controlled countries?  Not just to visit, actually live there?  So.....where were you living?  I find it hard to believe you lived in 20 countries in 2.5 years.  yes, I've heard you talk about the statistics about how some Athiestic countries are so much happier than Christian ones.  You got the stats on that and how they were evaluated?  I would be highly interested in reading that report and who put it out.

I don't appreciate being called silly, bigoted, arrogant, delusional, deceitful, or ignorant by you qon (I'm adding some of these from another post also that you directed towards me).  I don't know if you have any idea how you come across on this forum.  Your intimidating tactics of posting is rude, and demeaning to whomever your scathing remarks are aimed at.  Not one Christian has done this to you......not one.

If you can't address me in an mature, concise manner, or conduct yourself properly without all the degrading insulting labels, don't expect me to post anything more to you about anything.  I wish Admin. could better monitor some of the rude, degrading responses, and name calling, that get thrown around on these threads.

[jcribb16]

Quote from Annella:
Those of you who don't believe the Bible and really hate Christianity, why don't you all go live in countries that have the same beliefs that you do?  There are countries that will welcome you with open arms, and help you "trash" any Christian beliefs...Or just live for 6 months in one of these countries.  Not a 2 week vacation, but actually live there.  Your eyes would be wide open.

Quote from queenofnines:
Heh, this is the funny thing about forums: you end up looking silly when you don't realize who you're talking to.  I HAVE been to 20 countries and LIVED in Europe for 2.5 years.  I must say, it was quite refreshing not having god smeared in my face everywhere I went.  Several "atheistic" European countries rank in the top ten for overall health and happiness...America is like #86 on the list.

However, where I lived there were still plenty of reasons to favor America more that had nothing to do with religion.  Lack of shopping/entertainment facilities, for example.

I want to clarify, queenofnines, God is not being "smeared in your face" on these forums, at least.  The only time it appears that way to you is when you consistently pick apart every sentence (basically) of Christians when they post something back in defense of what they believe in and stand up for it.  I accept your decision as an atheist, but it seems as if you don't accept the fact that we believe in God, and try to intimidate, switch words around, and get aggressive about it.  No wonder it seems like God is being smeared back in your face.  We are trying to show what God's Word says, or other things that we know from history, etc., but we believe in God and live our lives for Him, and will continue to defend our beliefs no matter what you try and turn on us. 

Also, after teaching school for right at twenty years, our country WAS built on Christian and moral principles.  Please stop denying it.

[amyrouse]

For the religion of the founding fathers: http://www.adherents.com/gov/Founding_Fathers_Religion.html

As for Thomas Paine...check out The Age of Reason.  He is usually cited as the most outspoken against religion.

And, queenofnines is correct about the quotes... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-47a0EHz_hw

[Annella]

if someone calls you retarded its cause they are afraid of how smart you are

Please actually read the whole thread before you respond.  lol

wow, that was retarded!!  sorry, couldnt resist!!!

Hey you need to be a bit nicer.  That was a newbie and you were rude for no reason.  Anyone can post anywhere they want qon.  What they posted was totally on point and pertinent to the subject of the thread.  Unless your lol at the end was meant as a joke?
Tzs, To call someone retarded is not cool under any circumstances.  I wonder if they feel like posting in D&D again. If you can't resist, then maybe you should not be posting until you can obtain some self control.  I realize that you were commenting on qon telling the newbie to read the thread before they posted, but doesn't justify being rude.

   I can't speak for tzs but when I had originally read her post and even now after re-reading it a few times, I honestly do not see "rudeness".  I've read many of her posts and I think she is gifted with a great sense of humor.  I think her ability to make someone laugh is one of the best gifts anyone could have.  In checking out her other posts, her sense of humor & love of fun SHINES.  (If any newbies thinks someone is "rude", they should always check out that person's other posts and get a "feel" for that person's "writing style" because it is hard to decipher in a forum from a short post.)  I think this forum could use more humor & laughter....just my opinion.

Wow, that was retarded!!  sorry, couldn't resist!!!

How do you think a newbie took this?  I'm sorry Sheryl, I fail to see the humor in calling anyone retarded....even in jest.  That's just me though.  Also, when I was a newbie, I remember my first day in here and how I was treated.  I printed those posts off and saved them.  They are now in the mail though as we speak.  People were extremely kind to me everywhere except in D&D.  The minute I entered into this forum.....wham!!!

Do you notice that hundreds of people read D&D threads, but only a few of us actually post here?  it's the same ones over and over.  Why do you think that is?  I'll quote something someone told me in an email, but won't reveal them.  They said they were scared to post in D&D because of how mean people are in this part of the forum.  That bothers me.  Everyone on FC deserves to post wherever they want, without fear of being belittled etc.

I want everyone to have a chance to post without feeling intimidated.  As a newbie, I didn't know how to go back and read everyone's post to evaluate their personality.

Yes, this post can surely use more fun and more laughter.  Go back and read Amy's and my posts early this morning.  We had no problem having a good time between us.

However....to be fair, I'll go back and read some of Tzs's posts.  If I've judged her humor wrongly, I'm not above apologizing.