The Official God Thread - To Discuss God and Seek Answers

[SurveyMack10]

I wasn't even responding to the fact that you were raped, I was responding to the comment of "why didn't God just remove me from the situation." The man who violated you has free will as we all do, he made the choice to do an evil, awful thing. It's not your fault it's his fault. I was simply pointing out that the reason it happened is because we DO have free will, all of us, not just the good ones.

Y'all really get yourself into a pickle with this "free will" thing.  So what you're saying is god cares more about the rapist's free will than Amy's.  Before someone explodes in anger, think about it -- Amy presumably has "free will" too, and it is violating HER free will to be raped.  So god cares more about the rapist's free will by default by standing back and doing nothing.

You all know that would have to be the case if there were a Biblegod, you just don't want to admit it.  

I almost don't want to respond because I feel like everything I say is being warped...apparently I'm just got getting my point across very well. I simply meant, God was not going to reach down grab her and remove her from the situation because he does not do that. He does not physically grab up someone and place them somewhere else. I wasn't trying to say she in any way caused the rape or that it was her fault AT ALL, suprisingly enough I'm not THAT hateful. I would never say that and would like to reiterate again that I was ONLY addressing the question of free will. God gives us all a choice. We choose to do the right thing or the wrong thing. That man chose to do the wrong thing. Period. Furthermore, I NEVER said God cared more about his free will than hers and don't know where that came from? That doesn't make sense to me at all...

[jcribb16]

There are also way more rapists that are Christians than that aren't...

That's what I was trying to say to jcribb: believers make up the majority of the population.  So statistically, there's more people who are believers who will commit the bad stuff...and they often think they have a free pass to do so with the god card.

The point im making is anyone can claim to be a Christian and to serve God, but that doesn't mean they do. However, that doesn't make the religion bad. When followed correctly it's wonderful. It just means the PEOPLE made bad choices, the religion didn't make that decision for them...especially when the religion is against rape.

Christians and non-believers all have the same free will.  God is not responsible. Every time something bad happens, society is the first to put the responsibility on God. These answers are incorrect. Why? (There’s that question again!) Because if these allegations against God are true, then God is a mass murderer, baby killer, rapist, traffic lawbreaker, terrorist, airplane hijacker, and everything else our imaginative minds can think of. Every time we have a problem in our lives, it is not God’s fault. God only provides good.

Bad things happen though. Why? People make foolish decisions every day of their lives, taking advantage of the free will given to us by God.  So why did God let this happen? If he didn’t, the freedom he has passed to us as human beings would not exist. Before placing the blame of something evil and tragic on God, think about it. Why would a loving God ever want to harm anyone? And never forget, the most asked question in the universe is “Why?” The most unanswered question, unfortunately, is also “Why?” In this case, the answer may be our misuse of free will.
(Courtesy and help from "Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese of North America")

[queenofnines]

Bad things happen though. Why? People make foolish decisions every day of their lives, taking advantage of the free will given to us by God.  So why did God let this happen? If he didn’t, the freedom he has passed to us as human beings would not exist.

I've already explained that this excuse doesn't fly.  GOOD parents don't let their kids have free will over everything for their own safety.  So what is god's problem?

[shernajwine]

I have been reading further into the free will issue. And in looking very hard through my bible itself and looking for other sources on the matter, the bible doesn't really even talk about free will, other than that we choose God or we choose the Devil.

It is common to hear opponents of God’s sovereignty in salvation say that lack of free will produces robots or puppets. The underlying assumption in such thinking is that there are two basic choices: human freedom or God’s intervention. But, that’s a false assumption. The Bible is quite plain that all of mankind falls into one of two camps: sons of God or sons of the devil. In other words, if God does not pull your strings, you are not simply “morally neutral,” implementing your own plans and designs for your life. If God is not in charge of your life, then Satan is. Someone’s pulling your strings, either way.
 http://goshareyourfaith.wordpress.com/resources/reformed-doctrine/does-the-bible-teach-free-will/

This only a small portion of text and, for those interested, I recommend reading the whole thing. I'm pretty sure the skeptics are not going to like this but this post isn't intended for them. It is part of the research I have come across in trying to learn more about the issue. This might be an interesting read to believers.

I personally have no problem if God intervenes into my free will for my own good. I welcome it and even pray for it.

[jcribb16]

Bad things happen though. Why? People make foolish decisions every day of their lives, taking advantage of the free will given to us by God.  So why did God let this happen? If he didn’t, the freedom he has passed to us as human beings would not exist.

I've already explained that this excuse doesn't fly.  GOOD parents don't let their kids have free will over everything for their own safety.  So what is god's problem?

I was mainly speaking of adults, here, regarding free will (personal choice.)  I agree about the children, though - obviously they need parents/guardians, etc. to make choices for them until they can make their own choices, a little at a time, and then as an adult.
 
God doesn't have a problem, people do.

[queenofnines]

I have been reading further into the free will issue. And in looking very hard through my bible itself and looking for other sources on the matter, the bible doesn't really even talk about free will, other than that we choose God or we choose the Devil.

Because Christianity invented the term "free will".  I'm serious!  The more you know...

I personally have no problem if God intervenes into my free will for my own good. I welcome it and even pray for it.

Uh, didn't we already talk about how god can't intervene when it comes to rape??!?  He can only do the easy stuff, I guess.  Like finding your car keys.

[queenofnines]

God doesn't have a problem, people do.

Are we not god's children?  You seem to have missed my point...

[Annella]

We also have laws of the land that are Bible based on it's teachings and foundations (Do not kill, for instance).

Ha!  Every time I see another incorrect cliche like this, it's demonstrated how little people really know about their religion compared to society at large.  Recap, folks:

Our First Ammendment VIOLATES the First Commandment.  You know, "Thou shalt have no other gods before me"?  How about, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"?  That's a diss to god if I ever saw one.  

Commandments Two (graven images), Three (take god's name in vain), Four (Sabbath), Five (honor parents), Seven (adultery), Ten (coveting) are NOT laws...in fact, #2 again violates the First Amendment; many people work on Friday/Saturday/Sunday; you shouldn't have to respect your parents if they were sh*theads who abused you; and #10 is actually detrimental to the economy if followed.

The three Commandments that actually are U.S. law: don't kill, don't steal, don't commit perjury.  Wow...3 out of (at least) 10??  Not going for a high score, I guess.

And just a quick history lesson: Hammurabi's Code predates the Bible by at least 1,000 years and contains all three of those laws.  So no, you don't get to claim that the Bible has ANYTHING to do with our laws.

And FYI: If you followed just a fraction of the 600+ commandments in the Bible, you'd find your butt in jail and/or be given the death penalty.  Good thing you just ignore those unpleasant ones, eh?

Good video on this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxwzic3gbgU

As a whole, the men that drew up the Constitution were godly men (research or read their Bios).  "In God We Trust" is on our money.  We did have prayers in the schools at one time.  We say "One Nation Under God" in our pledge to the flag.  Our Nation was founded on Godly principles and morals.  You cannot deny that.  However, those are being attacked everyday and are trying to be done away with.

As far as using the Commandments as the only source for the foundation of law and order was never said by me.  I reiterate the Bible as a whole, had a lot to do with the forming of our great Nation.  We were founded on Christian morals and values.  You were the one that "jumped" on the Commandments.

There is no "cliche" about how our Nation or society was formed from the beginning.  You just don't like it, because you don't believe the Bible and it's teachings, and try to find any way to dispute it.  However, history bears out how our Nation was founded.  Since you don't believe the Bible and it's teachings, this is wasted on you.  However, today, this foundation is being eroded little by little to usher in a New World Order.  Which, by the way, is in the Bible also.

Those of you who don't believe the Bible and really hate Christianity, why don't you all go live in countries that have the same beliefs that you do?  There are countries that will welcome you with open arms, and help you "trash" any Christian beliefs.  Better yet, change places with some of the inhabitants who worship a God they love in secret and underground, because their Gov't. forbids it.  That would be a better way.  They would love to take your place.

You spout your atheistic belief and how we are so ignorant because we serve God.  Do something about it.  Go join forces with those who think like you do in other countries.  Or just live for 6 months in one of these countries.  Not a 2 week vacation, but actually live there.  Your eyes would be wide open.

[SurveyMack10]

There are also way more rapists that are Christians than that aren't...

That's what I was trying to say to jcribb: believers make up the majority of the population.  So statistically, there's more people who are believers who will commit the bad stuff...and they often think they have a free pass to do so with the god card.

The point im making is anyone can claim to be a Christian and to serve God, but that doesn't mean they do. However, that doesn't make the religion bad. When followed correctly it's wonderful. It just means the PEOPLE made bad choices, the religion didn't make that decision for them...especially when the religion is against rape.

Christians and non-believers all have the same free will.  God is not responsible. Every time something bad happens, society is the first to put the responsibility on God. These answers are incorrect. Why? (There’s that question again!) Because if these allegations against God are true, then God is a mass murderer, baby killer, rapist, traffic lawbreaker, terrorist, airplane hijacker, and everything else our imaginative minds can think of. Every time we have a problem in our lives, it is not God’s fault. God only provides good.

Bad things happen though. Why? People make foolish decisions every day of their lives, taking advantage of the free will given to us by God.  So why did God let this happen? If he didn’t, the freedom he has passed to us as human beings would not exist. Before placing the blame of something evil and tragic on God, think about it. Why would a loving God ever want to harm anyone? And never forget, the most asked question in the universe is “Why?” The most unanswered question, unfortunately, is also “Why?” In this case, the answer may be our misuse of free will.
(Courtesy and help from "Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese of North America")

Ah! Thank you! This is the point I've been trying to make but could not get the right words in quite the right order haha

[SurveyMack10]

Bad things happen though. Why? People make foolish decisions every day of their lives, taking advantage of the free will given to us by God.  So why did God let this happen? If he didn’t, the freedom he has passed to us as human beings would not exist.

I've already explained that this excuse doesn't fly.  GOOD parents don't let their kids have free will over everything for their own safety.  So what is god's problem?

Well that's a different issue...that's parents teaching their kids right from wrong, implementing morals and values, and watching over them as they learn the difference between what is and isn't safe...it's not hindering their free will?

[SurveyMack10]

I have been reading further into the free will issue. And in looking very hard through my bible itself and looking for other sources on the matter, the bible doesn't really even talk about free will, other than that we choose God or we choose the Devil.

Because Christianity invented the term "free will".  I'm serious!  The more you know...

I personally have no problem if God intervenes into my free will for my own good. I welcome it and even pray for it.

Uh, didn't we already talk about how god can't intervene when it comes to rape??!?  He can only do the easy stuff, I guess.  Like finding your car keys.

When does God find car keys?

[Annella]

We did not "invent" free will.  The Bible is full of scripture telling us to choose the good and not the evil.  Reading these scriptures tells us we have free will given to us by our Creator.  Because we have "chosen" to follow Christ, he recognized us as doing so, and there are benefits and blessings attached to that decision.  We are not better than anyone else.....just blessed, and passed from death to life. 

Does that make our life perpetually perfect.  Absolutely not.  I know just as many Christians with cancer, financial problems, family problems, ect.  It doesn't automatically put us in the position to "dodge the bullet" in life, but to recover if shot.....with hope.

This is not accepted by you because you do not believe the Bible.  It's accepted by us because we do.  You have exercised your free will by not believing the Bible.....knock yourself out.

[walksalone11]

  We were founded on Christian morals and values.  You were the one that "jumped" on the Commandments.

There is no "cliche" about how our Nation or society was formed from the beginning.  You just don't like it, because you don't believe the Bible and it's teachings, and try to find any way to dispute it.  However, history bears out how our Nation was founded. 

Those of you who don't believe the Bible and really hate Christianity, why don't you all go live in countries that have the same beliefs that you do?  There are countries that will welcome you with open arms, and help you "trash" any Christian beliefs.  Better yet, change places with some of the inhabitants who worship a God they love in secret and underground, because their Gov't. forbids it.  That would be a better way.  They would love to take your place.

You spout your atheistic belief and how we are so ignorant because we serve God.  Do something about it.  Go join forces with those who think like you do in other countries. 


[/quote]http://www.danielnpaul.com/DoctrineOfDiscovery.html

[shernajwine]

I have been reading further into the free will issue. And in looking very hard through my bible itself and looking for other sources on the matter, the bible doesn't really even talk about free will, other than that we choose God or we choose the Devil.

Because Christianity invented the term "free will".  I'm serious!  The more you know...

I personally have no problem if God intervenes into my free will for my own good. I welcome it and even pray for it.

Uh, didn't we already talk about how god can't intervene when it comes to rape??!?  He can only do the easy stuff, I guess.  Like finding your car keys.

God can intervene when it comes to rape. But additionally, the bible never said nothing bad will ever happen to you. In fact suffering is required for us to grow spiritually. It is through our trials that we mature and grow stronger against adversity.

James 1:2-3
2Consider it pure joy, my brothers, whenever you face trials of many kinds, 3because you know that the testing of your faith develops perseverance. 4Perseverance must finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything.
 
Romans 5:1-4
 1Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we rejoice in the hope of the glory of God. 3Not only so, but we also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; 4perseverance, character; and character, hope.

[jordandog]

  We were founded on Christian morals and values.  You were the one that "jumped" on the Commandments.

There is no "cliche" about how our Nation or society was formed from the beginning.  You just don't like it, because you don't believe the Bible and it's teachings, and try to find any way to dispute it.  However, history bears out how our Nation was founded. 

Those of you who don't believe the Bible and really hate Christianity, why don't you all go live in countries that have the same beliefs that you do?  There are countries that will welcome you with open arms, and help you "trash" any Christian beliefs.  Better yet, change places with some of the inhabitants who worship a God they love in secret and underground, because their Gov't. forbids it.  That would be a better way.  They would love to take your place.

You spout your atheistic belief and how we are so ignorant because we serve God.  Do something about it.  Go join forces with those who think like you do in other countries. 

http://www.danielnpaul.com/DoctrineOfDiscovery.html
[/quote]

I am confused. Walks, are you saying those were NOT Annella's words, but from the source YOU put down? Interesting....