The Official God Thread - To Discuss God and Seek Answers

[jcribb16]

Bad things happen though. Why? People make foolish decisions every day of their lives, taking advantage of the free will given to us by God.  So why did God let this happen? If he didn’t, the freedom he has passed to us as human beings would not exist.

I've already explained that this excuse doesn't fly.  GOOD parents don't let their kids have free will over everything for their own safety.  So what is god's problem?

Kids have free will! Ever had a teenager sneak out at night or take your car for a joyride?

Good point, Marie! 

[jcribb16]

Give the man the benefit of the doubt - he was known for his thoughtfulness of his workers, generosity for his family and friends, supporter of church and church activities, and believer of Christ.

And you owe so much in your life to atheists, you don't even know it.  Like, oh, the discovery of DNA.  But who needs science, right?

I acknowledge science with the discovery of DNA, etc. - they have amazing jobs and make amazing discoveries!  However, not all scientists are atheists, and I don't owe anything to any of them for their personal beliefs, only for their amazing work - a big "Thank You!" to them.  They are people, like we are, and deserve credit where credit is due.  Besides, that particular comment didn't even really fit in with the point we were talking about with Washington, but that's okay, I like showing you that I am behind scientists in much of their discoveries, etc. Them being atheist or not has nothing to do with that.....

[SurveyMack10]

Give the man the benefit of the doubt - he was known for his thoughtfulness of his workers, generosity for his family and friends, supporter of church and church activities, and believer of Christ.

And you owe so much in your life to atheists, you don't even know it.  Like, oh, the discovery of DNA.  But who needs science, right?

Do you wonder what will be said about us as Christians 200 years down the road (if the world is still here) by non believers?   What do we care, as we'll certainly be in a better place.

Actually, at the current trends of decline, Christianity will be extinct in 200 years.  People who subscribe to some sort of religion then will have the same amount of credibility (none) as those who believe in ghosts and tarot cards do today.  And you'll be dead.

Whoops, too insensitive?

Well no one ever discredited science, but science has NOT proven there is no God. Furthermore, there are plenty of scientists that aren't atheist and saying scientists are atheists is a huge generalization. I highly doubt Christianity will be extinct in 200 years, hah. Either way, there's no way we can tell...and it's ridiculous to say that believers in religion will be in the same category as psychics. However, plenty of people believe in ghosts and tarot cards and all that too.

[queenofnines]

science has NOT proven there is no God.

Broken record: Religion has never proven a god exists.  It is the group making the claim who has the burden of proof.

there are plenty of scientists that aren't atheist and saying scientists are atheists is a huge generalization.

Fact: 92+% of the National Academy of Scientists don't believe in a personal god.  It's not just a generalization, it's a solid statistic.  If you think 8% of scientists being believers is "plenty", okay then.

I highly doubt Christianity will be extinct in 200 years, hah.

And to this I redirect you to the handy-dandy chart I posted in this thread: http://www.fusioncash.net/forum.php?topic=17836.msg222504#msg222504

it's ridiculous to say that believers in religion will be in the same category as psychics. However, plenty of people believe in ghosts and tarot cards and all that too.

They most certainly will be.  Technology is only going to increase exponentially; so is our scientific understanding.  It's inevitable -- people will be laughing at our primitive generation in a few hundred years.  Unless Islam takes over.   

As for "plenty of people" believing in ghosts and other nonsense in this day and age, among rational adults, they are a minority.  If some guy starts talking about the healing powers of his crystal collection in the lunchroom, he's going to get looked at funny.

[jcribb16]

Quote from jcribb:
and even his reverence for his Maker, all were early inculcated in him by precepts which were the common practice in decent society the world over.
Quote from Falconer:
I don't understand how this makes him a full-blooded christian...almost every source points to him being a deist (simply acknowledging, respecting, and occasionally praising a divine designer instead of worshipping the defined christian god and the bible). And practically every account of him talking of christianity can leave one very skeptical of what he truly meant. I've read the book 1776 just to gather information on the war and they actually included a chunk about Washingtons beliefs and every source I've read online that isn't christian aligns to him being this way. It pretty much stated the same as this-
http://ezinearticles.com/?Was-George-Washington-a-Christian,-Or-Not?--Conclusive-Evidence!&id=1684534

But understand this entire arguments point was to just show Annella that it's very debatable to say GW was a devout christian- the opposite is actually more plausable. All in all, we should take that articles 2nd sentence to heart and focus on his accomplishments.


Quote from Annella:
Roman rule vs Christians is another good example.
Quote from Falconer:
Thx for the reply, Annella. I'll get back to you later as I'm falling asleep here.

[jcribb16]

Quote from jcribb:
and even his reverence for his Maker, all were early inculcated in him by precepts which were the common practice in decent society the world over.

Quote from Falconer:
I don't understand how this makes him a full-blooded christian...almost every source points to him being a deist (simply acknowledging, respecting, and occasionally praising a divine designer instead of worshipping the defined christian god and the bible). And practically every account of him talking of christianity can leave one very skeptical of what he truly meant. I've read the book 1776 just to gather information on the war and they actually included a chunk about Washingtons beliefs and every source I've read online that isn't christian aligns to him being this way. It pretty much stated the same as this-
http://ezinearticles.com/?Was-George-Washington-a-Christian,-Or-Not?--Conclusive-Evidence!&id=1684534

But understand this entire arguments point was to just show Annella that it's very debatable to say GW was a devout christian- the opposite is actually more plausable. All in all, we should take that articles 2nd sentence to heart and focus on his accomplishments.

I didn't say it made him a "full-blooded" Christian!  Just accept the facts as they are that he had some kind of fellowship with his Lord aka Maker aka Creator, etc. and was exemplary in his character, for the most part, and was popular enough for citizens to have wanted him to be president again, and the last time, he had to say no for health and other reasons.  Good grief, people do like to make mountains out of mole hills.....

[jcribb16]

Quote from: jcribb16 on September 26, 2010, 09:07:32 pm
Just accept the facts as they are that he had some kind of fellowship with his Lord aka Maker aka Creator, etc. and was exemplary in his character, for the most part

Quote from: queenofnines:
I don't know WHY you've guys run with this for as long as you have.  It makes no difference WHAT people from 200+ years ago believed.  Your pals from back then were also very pro-slavery; should we bring that back??  It is our roots and in the Bible, after all!

And Mack, definitions for things change all the time.  Women used to not be allowed to vote, interracial marriage was frowned upon, etc.  It's called progression.

[jcribb16]

Quote from: jcribb16 on September 26, 2010, 09:07:32 pm
Just accept the facts as they are that he had some kind of fellowship with his Lord aka Maker aka Creator, etc. and was exemplary in his character, for the most part

Quote from: queenofnines on Today at 05:17:48 am
I don't know WHY you've guys run with this for as long as you have.  It makes no difference WHAT people from 200+ years ago believed.  Your pals from back then were also very pro-slavery; should we bring that back??  It is our roots and in the Bible, after all!

And Mack, definitions for things change all the time.  Women used to not be allowed to vote, interracial marriage was frowned upon, etc.  It's called progression.

Washington inherited 10 slaves from his father, and took good care of them.  He had way more later.  He freed all his slaves and to top that, gave them land and monies to help them make a life.  And YES, it DOES make a difference WHAT people years ago believed - they have helped to build our wonderful country, and now to try and be torn down from others that want to make us dependant on the government.  We'll keep running with it as long as it takes ................

[SurveyMack10]

science has NOT proven there is no God.

Broken record: Religion has never proven a god exists.  It is the group making the claim who has the burden of proof.

there are plenty of scientists that aren't atheist and saying scientists are atheists is a huge generalization.

Fact: 92+% of the National Academy of Scientists don't believe in a personal god.  It's not just a generalization, it's a solid statistic.  If you think 8% of scientists being believers is "plenty", okay then.

I highly doubt Christianity will be extinct in 200 years, hah.

And to this I redirect you to the handy-dandy chart I posted in this thread: http://www.fusioncash.net/forum.php?topic=17836.msg222504#msg222504

it's ridiculous to say that believers in religion will be in the same category as psychics. However, plenty of people believe in ghosts and tarot cards and all that too.

They most certainly will be.  Technology is only going to increase exponentially; so is our scientific understanding.  It's inevitable -- people will be laughing at our primitive generation in a few hundred years.  Unless Islam takes over.   

As for "plenty of people" believing in ghosts and other nonsense in this day and age, among rational adults, they are a minority.  If some guy starts talking about the healing powers of his crystal collection in the lunchroom, he's going to get looked at funny.

Just because a scientist doesn't believe in a personal God doesn't mean they don't believe in SOME FORM of higher power. When science can't account for something they even call it the God factor, or credit it to Creation, even in textbooks I've had for classes I've seen this. SCIENCE has the burden to prove the world was created another way if they want to disprove Christianity- we have the Bible. Anyone can choose not to believe or believe in anything. There are plenty of people who don't believe we even landed on the moon. The point is, we have our proof, you just choose not to agree with it. If a book was found that said a meteor exploded and the earth formed with monkeys on it that turned into humans it would be considered proof, but since the Book says there is a God you write it off as being bologna. The point is, we believe what we believe, so we don't have to prove our God to you. Even if we did you wouldn't believe it. I KNOW there is a God, I have all the proof I need. I don't discredit science and their discoveries, but they haven't discovered anything to disprove my God and never will.
A chart can't prove what people are going to believe in their hearts about their God.
As far as scientists believing in a God being a minority and people believing in ghosts being a minority YOU are the one that always preaches against majority rule. You're the one that always says that just because Christians are majority it doesn't make them right, well then the same goes for everything else. You can't ONLY apply that logic to Christianity.

[shernajwine]

Mackenzie,

The solid statistic queen posted isn't really so solid. I did some research and the percentages are all over the place. It is true that of the "greater scientists" there is a higher rate of disbelief in God, but this proves nothing other than that they are so full of themselves and their knowledge that they hold themselves above God and make their own science their god.

Romans 1:25
25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator.

And for all their puffed up knowledge in the end, they are liars.

1 John 2:22 (The Message)
So who is lying here? It's the person who denies that Jesus is the Divine Christ, that's who.

As for Christianity becoming extinct? Well not entirely but it is possible that it will become a minority religion...I say this because if you look at Europe, Christianity, for all practical purposes, has pretty much died. Islam is now the dominating religion in that area. The reason? Many people who call themselves Christians are ignorant to the historical beliefs and doctrines of Christianity. They accept diabolical doctrines, and incorporate worldly ideas into their own beliefs which makes them vulnerable to clever deception. Many of them even think there are many ways to God other than Jesus Christ, and have serious doubts about the authority and infallibility of the bible.

So Christianity may very well be in trouble of losing it's "numbers" but the replacement that is taking over right now (the replacement that is led by fanatics) will not be what these people trying to rid the world of Christianity, had in mind. If you happened to see the video that Annella posted in the "Fallout of Hate" thread (it's no longer available), but if you saw the gruesomeness in that video...that is what will be happening to anyone who uses the name of Jesus and anyone who denies Allah.

[jordandog]

When science can't account for something they even call it the God factor, or credit it to Creation, even in textbooks I've had for classes I've seen this. SCIENCE has the burden to prove the world was created another way if they want to disprove Christianity- we have the Bible.

It's the standard 'god of the gaps' theory/logic, it has been used for many years, and has been referred to by myself, queen, and Falconer that I know of. The one thing you all fail to realize is that science does NOT bear the burden of proof as to whether there is a God and proving that creation happened. That requires starting from a basis of nothing and 'nothingness' is NOT within the domain of science, but is within the domain of religion and creationists - so that puts the proving on you, the religious.

[shernajwine]

Except that as science advances, there are larger and more frequent gaps. This isn't the way it happens if science is actually progressing towards truth. And also, science says, the universe had a cause but can't explain it. This is where it all started and the silence from materialist scientists is deafening.

Stephen Hawking can try to hock that the presence of the laws means God wasn't needed. He doesn't answer who made the laws.

I think if scientists with a materialist agenda want to assert that God WASN'T the cause, they have a burden of proving what the cause was. They can't. That's one gap that won't ever have a legitimate answer from their group because God WAS the cause.

As the gaps continue to grow, they will get more desperate and those who followed the dogma to it's miserable end will only be left with the crumbling edifice of their intellectual empire built on lies.

[Annella]

I think if scientists with a materialist agenda want to assert that God WASN'T the cause, they have a burden of proving what the cause was. They can't. That's one gap that won't ever have a legitimate answer from their group because God WAS the cause.

Something that we embrace with no doubt.  Science will try to find a loophole and never actually find it. 

I've heard science tout that they can create life from dirt.  Really?  How about creating the basic fundamentals and elements of that "dirt".  All they're doing is taking credit for what God made to begin with.

[queenofnines]

Just because a scientist doesn't believe in a personal God doesn't mean they don't believe in SOME FORM of higher power.

And there ya go -- always so quick to throw poor Jesus under the bus.    "Believe in a mushy higher power in general, but whatever you do, DON'T be an atheist!  Heavens no!  I'll get to converting you to Jesus later..."

When science can't account for something they even call it the God factor, or credit it to Creation, even in textbooks I've had for classes I've seen this.

It's called a metaphor.  I myself speak of god often...like when coincidences happen.  As a joke.  It's nothing to take seriously.

There are plenty of people who don't believe we even landed on the moon.

And those would be the loony bins I was referring to earlier.

The point is, we have our proof, you just choose not to agree with it.

Your proof does not qualify as real proof, though.  That's the problem.

If a book was found that said a meteor exploded and the earth formed with monkeys on it that turned into humans it would be considered proof, but since the Book says there is a God you write it off as being bologna.

Wow.  This is the silliest thing I've seen you write thus far.  Scientists do not just find books and treat them as fact - they need to pass the scrutiny of reality.  Which the Bible doesn't.  The fact that there's a being called "god" in it has nothing to do with it.

Ironically, it is BECAUSE you have a book that has a being called "god" in it that you think it must be true.  Like people have never fabricated stories about god beings throughout history...oh wait, they have!  

Explain to me why the Koran isn't true?

we believe what we believe, so we don't have to prove our God to you.

You do if you're trying to force your beliefs on society at large...which Christianity is.  You do if you're running around telling people they will burn in hell for all eternity if they don't accept your invisible friend.

Even if we did you wouldn't believe it.

If you gave actual real evidence, I most certainly would.

[shernajwine]

 

You do if you're running around telling people they will burn in hell for all eternity if they don't accept your invisible friend.

LOL