dosen't the story of jesus sound like hercules??

[ButterflyWings]

Not that I believe in Hell but in my warped screwed head we are in hell!! Really look at the world this is possible hell and maybe we are fighting to get to heaven maybe satan runs the world LMAO Religion is so silly to me..Back and forth..Hypocritical..Fairy Tale like,used in screwed up ways,and some hide the fact they are nuts running a cult.But I respect real people with beliefs..Heartfelt beliefs not taught beliefs..

[502mania]

Not that I believe in Hell but in my warped screwed head we are in hell!! Really look at the world this is possible hell and maybe we are fighting to get to heaven maybe satan runs the world LMAO Religion is so silly to me..Back and forth..Hypocritical..Fairy Tale like,used in screwed up ways,and some hide the fact they are nuts running a cult.But I respect real people with beliefs..Heartfelt beliefs not taught beliefs..

[shernajwine]

either heaven or hell would be eternal life. and i really don't think there is a heaven or hell. there has to be something more complex. and even satan BELIEVES in god, what im trying to say is, its important to make the most out of life and love ALL other forms of life and respect everyones thoughts and views.

Of course satan believes in God! Hence my entire post about "choosing" God. And saying, there is no place in hell for people that "love" God.

That's why Pascals wager is erroneous. It implies that one simply has to believe in God's existence to go to heaven. That's not what God asked of us, we accept Him or reject Him. We want Him or we don't want Him. This life is temporary, this universe is temporary but God created man in Him image; meaning He endowed us with a spirit. Our spirit does not die, once our physical bodies have long decayed our spirits live on. You make a choice while in your physical body to love God or not. When your time is up, God sends you on to your place of choice.

No one knows EXACTLY what heaven or hell entails and it's probably not anything we could wrap our limited human logic around since these places exist outside the physical laws of this world. So it is complex.
Here are a couple of articles from one of my favorite websites

http://www.godandscience.org/doctrine/hell.html
http://www.godandscience.org/doctrine/heaven.html

[shernajwine]

Not that I believe in Hell but in my warped screwed head we are in hell!! Really look at the world this is possible hell and maybe we are fighting to get to heaven maybe satan runs the world ..

I could almost agree with that at times lol. 

[queenofnines]

There is definitely a misconception about hell and it's purpose.

Why?  Because I totally logically demonstrated that it can't exist?

People who wind up in hell, get there for one reason and one reason only.

FACT: We have zero evidence that any part of you "lives on" after death (and why the hell should you? you've already not-existed for 13.7 billion years before your birth!).  You are making this bold assertion without any credibility.

Super happy, catchy song about heaven (you'll even like this one Sherna ): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9bMi4s_yOE   

They chose to reject God.

No, I studied the evidence for a god's existence and didn't find it compelling.

It's not a place you suffer for being bad.

So wait, I won't suffer?  And I thought I WAS bad because of sin?!  Remember -- Christianity teaches that we're ALL destined for hell because of being "bad".  Stop saying it's just atheists who "deserve" it.

We went over this before queen. To force people to be with God forever against their will isn't loving.

And having demons torture me forever IS?!

she would rather go to hell than spend eternity with a megalomaniacal god.

Don't use her words as some kind of justification that atheists secretly WANT to be punished forever.  I don't want to be!!  What she means is something you can't understand as a believer; that if in the astronomically small chance a malevolent personal god exists, the alternative of worshiping his evil *bleep* in heaven doesn't exactly sound like a picnic, either!

the place that is set aside for the people who don't want God is called hell.

And the fact that you're okay with this unimaginable absurdity shows what a stranglehood religion has over you.

Hell doesn't wait for them, it's not even something they need to concern themselves with, because they made a choice to accept Him.

Oh really?  There seem to be plenty of Scripture verses and schools of thought that say merely believing in Jesus isn't good enough.  You are also assuming that no one will ever walk away like I did...surely using a scare tactic like hell may prevent this for some!!

Hell is not for sinners, it is for the people who don't want God.

Yes it IS for sinners because if you break even ONE commandment, you go there.  That is incredibly offensive to say it's "just for us" benign, disbelievers of bullsh*t.

The good news is that sin no longer has to be a burden, you don't have to be slave to it anymore.

I'm not a slave to "sin" and neither are you.  Have you watched Nonstampcollector's vids on this??

[shernajwine]

Why?  Because I totally logically demonstrated that it can't exist?
 
No, you didn't.

No, I studied the evidence for a god's existence and didn't find it compelling.

Rejected Him

So wait, I won't suffer?  And I thought I WAS bad because of sin?!  Remember -- Christianity teaches that we're ALL destined for hell because of being "bad".  Stop saying it's just atheists who "deserve" it.

Yes we are bad because of sin and in that sense we all "deserve" hell. Christ remitted our sins on the cross. No more need to fear hell because we can't not sin.

And having demons torture me forever IS?!

You make the choice

that if in the astronomically small chance a malevolent personal god exists, the alternative of worshiping his evil *bleep* in heaven doesn't exactly sound like a picnic, either!

He's not malevolent and you make a choice

And the fact that you're okay with this unimaginable absurdity shows what a stranglehood religion has over you.

I'm not the one going around screaming about hell to everyone like you have been doing in this forum 

Yes it IS for sinners because if you break even ONE commandment, you go there.  That is incredibly offensive to say it's "just for us" benign, disbelievers of bullsh*t.

Nope, you break a commandment and God is faithful to forgive. This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. 1Timothy 1:15
You either went to a nut job church or you weren't paying attention to the message of the cross.

I'm not a slave to "sin" and neither are you.

You're right, I'm not. 
Romans 6:6
For I know that my old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with, that I should no longer be slave to sin—

[jcribb16]

Quote from: shernajwine on Today at 08:39:57 am
There is definitely a misconception about hell and it's purpose.

Quote from: queenofnines:
Why?  Because I totally logically demonstrated that it can't exist?

You have not logically demonstrated or proved that hell doesn't exist.

[jordandog]

Why should hell be preached in churches when these people who go to church are there because they are choosing God? Hell doesn't wait for them, it's not even something they need to concern themselves with, because they made a choice to accept Him.

Not buying that. There are countless numbers of people sitting in churches for reasons that have little to do with choosing God. They are there because the feel they have to be to fit in with the rest of their community, one party in a marriage is a devout believer and the other could care less, but it keeps peace in the marriage, teenagers (who are old enough to make a conscious choice about what they DO believe) are 'forced' to go because that's what their parents want/expect of them, couples who want to be married in many churches are required to attend services and again, one or the other may not choose God, but won't defy the requirements, and there are more reasons I could add, but these are sufficient. Just because you occupy the pew, it does NOT mean proof of 'choosing God'. 

In my 25+ years of actually believing and actively choosing/seeking God, I saw and heard plenty of people who were NOT there for the same reasons, but most were too afraid or too ashamed to voice it. I am willing to bet we have all known families that have the classic member(s) who makes it look good on Sunday, whatever days they attend, but outside those church walls they live anything BUT the life of a true religious person who is choosing to live in the way God wants. They are also well enough doctrinated to know, without a doubt, that their actions and thoughts do not line up with God's wishes and that when they pray it is NOT sincere. If Pascals wager is 'erroneous', then so is that idea of why people go to church - x10.

[shernajwine]

Why should hell be preached in churches when these people who go to church are there because they are choosing God? Hell doesn't wait for them, it's not even something they need to concern themselves with, because they made a choice to accept Him.

Not buying that. There are countless numbers of people sitting in churches for reasons that have little to do with choosing God. They are there because the feel they have to be to fit in with the rest of their community, one party in a marriage is a devout believer and the other could care less, but it keeps peace in the marriage, teenagers (who are old enough to make a conscious choice about what they DO believe) are 'forced' to go because that's what their parents want/expect of them, couples who want to be married in many churches are required to attend services and again, one or the other may not choose God, but won't defy the requirements, and there are more reasons I could add, but these are sufficient. Just because you occupy the pew, it does NOT mean proof of 'choosing God'. 

In my 25+ years of actually believing and actively choosing/seeking God, I saw and heard plenty of people who were NOT there for the same reasons, but most were too afraid or too ashamed to voice it. I am willing to bet we have all known families that have the classic member(s) who makes it look good on Sunday, whatever days they attend, but outside those church walls they live anything BUT the life of a true religious person who is choosing to live in the way God wants. They are also well enough doctrinated to know, without a doubt, that their actions and thoughts do not line up with God's wishes and that when they pray it is NOT sincere. If Pascals wager is 'erroneous', then so is that idea of why people go to church - x10.

Well, you are right about that Jordan. Not all people sitting in church have chosen God. But that doesn't mean that hell should be preached. For whatever reason people are sitting in church, they are there; and ministry should use this opportunity to share with them why God has chosen them. When people understand how much God loves them, they choose Him. God does not want service from fear. The bible doesn't say to go into all the world and preach the message of hell.

Thanks for calling me on that 

[Falconer02]

You have not logically demonstrated or proved that hell doesn't exist.

The existence of hell is illogical in itself because it allows for the impossible. Even if we apply sciences to hell it still makes no sense!
http://willthomasonline.wordpress.com/2009/03/25/finally-proof-that-hell-does-not-exist/  (just read below the HELL EXPLAINED BY CHEMISTRY STUDENT part...lol)

Also remember we do not have to prove it exists. The burden of proof is on you since they're your beliefs and not ours. Try to do it without falling within these parameters- http://www.youseedrybones.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/Real_Logic_vs_Religious_Logic.jpg

I'm not the one going around screaming about hell to everyone like you have been doing in this forum  

I think there's a point being missed here...it is rude to tell people that they're going to hell even if they bring it up. It's such a primitive tactic and there's no reason to assume anyone has it down because their mythological beliefs tell them so. They are putting a curse upon people. Understand this next example is way off par to the real belief-- What if I were to tell you that if you don't accept agnosticism soon, your children are doomed to be born with rat tails and it will be stuck within their children and their childrens children indefinitely? An obvious physical difference between hell and rat-rails, but the same primitive curse-structure aligns perfectly.

...and no. I would never wish that upon you! lol

[jordandog]

Well, you are right about that Jordan. Not all people sitting in church have chosen God. But that doesn't mean that hell should be preached. For whatever reason people are sitting in church, they are there; and ministry should use this opportunity to share with them why God has chosen them. When people understand how much God loves them, they choose Him. God does not want service from fear. The bible doesn't say to go into all the world and preach the message of hell.

Thanks for calling me on that 

You're welcome. I had an opportunity to do a program along the lines of "Doctors Without Borders" here in the US in West Virginia and the Appalachian regions. I went to some 'hellfire and brimstone' old fashioned Baptist services while there, partly to get the word out on our free healthcare (that is one place you WILL find lots of people together at one time!), and I could not wait to get out. I actually thought I was going to have one of my panic attacks - that would have looked real inviting - because ALL I heard was burning in hell. That is not any way to raise a child.

[jcribb16]

Well, you are right about that Jordan. Not all people sitting in church have chosen God. But that doesn't mean that hell should be preached. For whatever reason people are sitting in church, they are there; and ministry should use this opportunity to share with them why God has chosen them. When people understand how much God loves them, they choose Him. God does not want service from fear. The bible doesn't say to go into all the world and preach the message of hell.

Thanks for calling me on that 

You're welcome. I had an opportunity to do a program along the lines of "Doctors Without Borders" here in the US in West Virginia and the Appalachian regions. I went to some 'hellfire and brimstone' old fashioned Baptist services while there, partly to get the word out on our free healthcare (that is one place you WILL find lots of people together at one time!), and I could not wait to get out. I actually thought I was going to have one of my panic attacks - that would have looked real inviting - because ALL I heard was burning in hell. That is not any way to raise a child.

I do agree with that!

[shernajwine]

I went to some 'hellfire and brimstone' old fashioned Baptist services while there, partly to get the word out on our free healthcare (that is one place you WILL find lots of people together at one time!), and I could not wait to get out

I don't even understand how believers find that kind of church service appealing.

Some red faced screaming, sweaty preacher runnin around yelling:
OH Yes there is HELL waiting for you sinners! And the LORD says, you will BURN in its fiery depths for ETERNITY for all your sin. Hallelujah! PRAISE THE LORD for the torture of hell! 

What?! Completely ridiculous. 

[shernajwine]

The existence of hell is illogical in itself because it allows for the impossible

Materialist philosophy says it's impossible. Not science. 

[queenofnines]

The existence of hell is illogical in itself because it allows for the impossible

Materialist philosophy says it's impossible. Not science. 

Uh, did you read the article he posted?  It does describe it in scientific terms to some extent.

Falconer -- "Oh my god!" that blog entry was awesome!

Another scientific explanation of why hell isn't possible: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7ggUpyLSpc