Fallout of Hate Is Spreading Across America from 9/11 Site

[jordandog]

SurveyMack:

Sorry that you have to be petty and address issues of how I posted something rather than what I posted about.

You had more than enough things posted about exact things in my post to you, so how was I to know you were NOT addressing just me? That is NOT being 'petty', no need again to even say that. I am getting very tired of all the 'general remarks' being made around here. Then they are turned around so as to appear as if they were NOT said or said in a 'different way'. If you know anything about debating, discussing, or posting in forums you should know that is NOT the way to to it and have any kind of productive outcome. It all becomes one huge jumble.

I have never replied to any of your posts before this thread, just went and looked at my own posts to make sure. That means I am NOT one of those who has bashed you OR your christianity, but am constantly referred to as 'part of a group, a band, a follower', by Annella. I even got this remark from her in the thread that was locked:"Your taking words and using them against Christian, just like you've always done." That is a bunch of BS right there. So, if you have a bias against or a problem with ME because of how you were initially treated, you best look at who did it, because it wasn't me.

[FuzzyCottonsocks]

I guess some people have forgotten the Christians who were bombing abortion clinics in the 80's or the so-called Christians saying lovely things like "God hates fags" and "thank God for dead soldiers."  Any religion can be twisted and used to further someone's hateful agenda.  Anyone basically saying "well their religion is bad, but my religion is fine" needs a reality check.  Do I think building a mosque there is a good idea? No. I think it will lead to more violence. I also think everyone is far too concerned with what is going to be built on or near that site. You can put a memorial park there, a mosque, a church, or rebuild the towers to be even taller than before. It won't bring the people who lost their lives that day back from the dead. It won't undo the horror we witnessed.  It changes nothing.

No nothing will undo the horror we witnessed, or bring back the families loved ones.  However, does pouring salt in the wounds that are barely healed help either?  I know a couple that lost their little girl of 5 months old.  Some of the things people have told them are:  "oh, your young, you can have more kids", "she's in a better place, at least she was young when she went", and "Thank God he took her young, you didn't have to lose her when she was older....it's actually a blessing", "It's a blessing God took her, she was so sick".  Do you think that made this couple feel better, or was it a tad insensitive?  Even though there was some truth to the statements.  I didn't lose anyone in 9/11, and you probably haven't either.  Who are we to say that this isn't bringing afresh what happened that day or it feels like a slap in the face to them?

You think building the Mosque there will lead to more violence?  I agree.  Okay, so why are they so adamant to build there then?  Surely they must know how sensitive an issue it is to the American people, but "full steam ahead"!!  Or maybe when the violence does come, they can appear to be the victim instead.  They're already trying to appear the victim now.  Also, what prompted the Muslims terorrists to resort to bomb the towers in the first place?  Out of retaliation to us?  NO, it was without provocation.  Why, because of a religion that defies anyone who isn't Muslim, and must be killed, because we are infidels, according to their Koran (their bible).  Have you even read the Koran?  Have you even investigated at all what their religion is all about?  The ignorance of your post above already tells me you have not.  Have you watched any of the videos that were posted?

Do you realize that in Arab countries, if they are not followerd of the Islam faith, they are put to death?  No other religion is permitted.  It's not allowed, Only Allah can be worshipped.

There are lovely people who have come over here just to make a better life for their families.  Unfortunately, they are the minority.  On the flip side, those who bomb abortions clinics, hate fags, and are glad for dead soldiers are in the minority also.

It's ultimately for the people of NYC to decide. In my eyes that place will forever be cursed and nothing good will come from building anything there. It's my personal view and nothing more. You on the other hand are acting like you speak for the victims and their families.  I'm from NYC. Where are you from? I was living 50 or so miles outside of the city when this happened. I still remember not being able to contact my father to find out if he was OK. I still remember driving over the Tappan Zee Bridge and seeing the city I grew up in covered in smoke, wondering what was going to happen next. Don't talk to me like you know me. As far as good Muslims being the minority, what are the exact statistics on that? Or on evil Christians for that matter?  The actions of some radicals of their religion and you say that's the majority, but radicals of your belief system are the minority. That's awful convenient. Yes, the Koran has violence in it and some controversial statements. Kinda like the Bible in that respect. People have used and are still using the Bible as an excuse for hateful acts. As far as the attack being unprovoked, in their eyes it wasn't. We're forever sticking our noses in conflicts involving their people. You say I'm ignorant?  Please. This sort of hypocrisy and fear mongering reminds me why I abandoned religion in the first place.  

I said I wouldn't post anymore in this thread unless I had to.  Well I have to.  I have to apologize for putting the word ignorance in my above post, and actually aiming at you (which was not done intentionally).  That was not right and I apologize.  I'm usually very careful about saying anything like that.  You most certainly are not ignorant, nor is anybody.  What I should have posted was misinformed.  For awhile there I was posting so fast, and that slipped by the mental censor.  It seemed like you had not watched the videos I had posted.  Obviously they didn't make that much of an impact anyhow, if people watched them or not.  

However, you have your own reasons and arguments, and they are just as important as someone who is against this.  Your entitled to your opionion.  This is still America, and we still have free speech.  I don't want to post in this thread anymore (nothing to do with you), so if you'll forgive me.  I'm moving on.  I've come to the opinion that this is one of those divided stances and that's just how it is, and this is a no win situation on either side.

No, I wasn't there in NY.  I'll give you that.  I do however travel to these Arab/Muslim countries, and see some things first hand that would make your hair curl by it's self.  Seen their hatred for anything American.  Are they all like that....nope.  Like I said in a previous post, I've met some Arab people that were not Muslim, and they are so sweet.  Some times it's just where you are, and where the border happens to be that day.  Now I know that sounds off, but you almost have to be there to understand what I mean. 

Fair enough, Annella. Apology accepted. 

[Falconer02]

Okay, I'm going to answer this because your are completely wrong and twisting things around. You did insult me at first.....Ok you changed it.  I didn't see it until you mentioned it......just now.

It was never an insult in the first place. I just changed it because it sounded stupid.

As far as garnering support for myself.  That's ludicrious.  If you don't know anything about me by now, I don't need to garner anything.

You were fear mongering earlier though. I took it as this because that's the usual case of it.

  I know you stick together, and that's okay.  However, the posts speak for themselves.....and the fact that he's still at it. with his latest thread, kinda makes this moot.

Alright I can probably play the naive card here because I don't know the whole story of what's going on. Just keep in mind this all originated from me laughing at the date change of that one post pointing out the hypocrisy. As far as I can remember, that's all.

The thing your not grasping here is.......these are boundaries I'VE set.  I don't need your approval or disapproval to set them. 

You're talking to someone who argues with christians all the time...trust me...I know! lolololololol

[Annella]

I have never replied to any of your posts before this thread, just went and looked at my own posts to make sure. That means I am NOT one of those who has bashed you OR your christianity, but am constantly referred to as 'part of a group, a band, a follower', by Annella. I even got this remark from her in the thread that was locked:"Your taking words and using them against Christian, just like you've always done." That is a bunch of BS right there. So, if you have a bias against or a problem with ME because of how you were initially treated, you best look at who did it, because it wasn't me.

Quote from: SurveyMack10 on Today at 01:03:14 pm
Quote from: Annella on Today at 12:49:16 am
Quote from: SurveyMack10 on September 01, 2010, 10:34:52 pm
wow, great title. pfft.

At least spell my name correctly in the Title......it's two n's.......
just goes to show how too many people on this forum are more worried about talking down to others than addressing the issues
Maybe I am reading or taking this the wrong way here, but you quoted Annella and then made the statement with "more worried about talking down to others than addressing the issues". I am interpreting that as directed at Annella. Am I correct, because if I am, I find that one very interesting!

Jordandog:  Well, I'm on my way to the airport, and seeing if the Laptop is working, and I see a couple posts here with my name in it you posted, on different threads.  Obviously you have a problem with me about something, but your not actually posting me....your posting others.  Your indirectly addressing me, without actually addressing me. 

So lets get it out on the table and discuss it shall we?  I've got another hour and half in the car till we get there, so air your grievance.  I see you posted one on a thread that I won't post on, and another on a thread I'm trying not to post on, but until we get this settled, let's use this one for now.  Let's begin....I'll let you go first.

[SurveyMack10]

What people fail to realize 911 was the act of radical muslims and the news strives to incite others by reporting on only the sensational aspects of most things. It would be a matter of being sensitive to the feelings of those who lost loved ones to choose another site. It would not be admitting they had a part in this but should show that they are peacable with all and have compassion for their feelings

I totally agree.

[SurveyMack10]

SurveyMack:

Sorry that you have to be petty and address issues of how I posted something rather than what I posted about.

You had more than enough things posted about exact things in my post to you, so how was I to know you were NOT addressing just me? That is NOT being 'petty', no need again to even say that. I am getting very tired of all the 'general remarks' being made around here. Then they are turned around so as to appear as if they were NOT said or said in a 'different way'. If you know anything about debating, discussing, or posting in forums you should know that is NOT the way to to it and have any kind of productive outcome. It all becomes one huge jumble.

I have never replied to any of your posts before this thread, just went and looked at my own posts to make sure. That means I am NOT one of those who has bashed you OR your christianity, but am constantly referred to as 'part of a group, a band, a follower', by Annella. I even got this remark from her in the thread that was locked:"Your taking words and using them against Christian, just like you've always done." That is a bunch of BS right there. So, if you have a bias against or a problem with ME because of how you were initially treated, you best look at who did it, because it wasn't me.

If I am addressing you I will quote your post- like I did just now.

And I never said you were the one that did any of that, just said that the build-up of that is what gets me riled and probably why I come off as hostile. It just gets old that instead of addressing the issue at hand people resort to personal attacks.

Also, I do know how debate works. I'm not new to it.

[Annella]

Hey Girlfriend (Mackenzie).  Your right, I won't post on the other thread.  The only reason I'm posting on this one is that my posts are already on it.  Thanks for your post on the other one.  I'm not stupid and see what's going on.  I know your post was taken and twisted around.  I'm going to address that.  I seem to be the topic of conversation, and I'm not even around.  I keep looking for the Paparazzi.  Surely someone getting this much cover is famous.

I'm on my way out of the country and will be for awhile.  The Laptop so far is working great.  I should be able to post from where I'll be.....we'll see.  I'll be in touch.

[SurveyMack10]

Hey Girlfriend (Mackenzie).  Your right, I won't post on the other thread.  The only reason I'm posting on this one is that my posts are already on it.  Thanks for your post on the other one.  I'm not stupid and see what's going on.  I know your post was taken and twisted around.  I'm going to address that.  I seem to be the topic of conversation, and I'm not even around.  I keep looking for the Paparazzi.  Surely someone getting this much cover is famous.

I'm on my way out of the country and will be for awhile.  The Laptop so far is working great.  I should be able to post from where I'll be.....we'll see.  I'll be in touch.

I don't even understand how my post could have been construed as being against you, but on this forum anything can happen! It is all way out of hand and the issues aren't even being addressed anymore..sad.

I hope you have a great trip and will try to get on and put in my 2 cents in between homework haha.

[cball55]

Thank you for posting this.

There is too much hate going around this old country:  We all have the same color blood in our bodies.  what's up about that?

[jordandog]

Annella, I already posted what upsets me, from the locked thread that was a part of your reply to me there. The other thing I said pulled in here by you from the thread of walksalone? I said I found it 'interesting' that Mackenzie wrote what she did. Why? Because it was posted with a quote from you about spelling your name correctly and she mentioned the talking down to others and not addressing the issue. Maybe you do NOT find that strange, but considering you 2 are friends, I thought it odd because you have not addressed walksalone's thread, so it appeared as if she was saying what she did to you, period. I don't know why that is such a big deal, it was just a comment and not meant to incite. That in itself is ridiculous. You have said why you haven't posted, but that's between you and him.

I have made very few posts in the lengthy threads re anything Christian for a couple months now. They have gotten to a point of being a circular argument/discussion between sherna and queen for the most part and neither side is going to convince the other. I actually stopped reading them. I have said plenty to marieelissa, but if you consider that awful because she is a Christian on a given day, well, that is how you feel. I don't include her in the group of well thought out posters on here, so I do not really care.

Therein 'lies the rub' as they say. Whether I am asking questions about the bible or religion and you are answering or I make a post without being derogatory in it, it seems that somehow it usually gets turned around and you are once again putting me in a certain 'group'. If you look back at the locked thread, where I took my quote from, you will see what I am saying - in part ie :"Your taking words and using them against Christian, just like you've always done." I DO NOT always do that. You have done it many times and it comes at me out of the clear blue. Why is it I can say things to amyrouse, sherna, sheryl, other 'religious' people and I do not get a backlash? If THEY disagree with me it is never posted in the same manner that you do. I won't deny your expertise on the bible, it's there. But you are not an expert on everything out there that is talked about in these forums. NO ONE is.  It seems as if one minute you are calm and collected and the next you're making accusations, generalizations, and angry at anyone who doesn't agree with you 100%. I just don't work that way. I am NOT SAYING you do this ONLY to me. I have seen it happen with others and from their replies, they appear to be bewildered by it also.

I don't expect to be agreed with by everyone, but I do know about a few things. I just can't help wondering when you are 'nice' one minute and the next minute I feel like I can hear you seething at me because I am not in your 'christian family'. Defend your friends, I don't care about that, but I don't find it okay to put others in a bad light just to do it. I am not a doormat either. It's hard to explain, but that's the best I can do right now. I am already late for work, typed this out way too fast and I am sure I will see something I wish I had left out or put in, but I have GOT to go.

[Annella]

Hey Girlfriend (Mackenzie).  Your right, I won't post on the other thread.  The only reason I'm posting on this one is that my posts are already on it.  Thanks for your post on the other one.  I'm not stupid and see what's going on.  I know your post was taken and twisted around.  I'm going to address that.  I seem to be the topic of conversation, and I'm not even around.  I keep looking for the Paparazzi.  Surely someone getting this much cover is famous.

I'm on my way out of the country and will be for awhile.  The Laptop so far is working great.  I should be able to post from where I'll be.....we'll see.  I'll be in touch.

I don't even understand how my post could have been construed as being against you, but on this forum anything can happen! It is all way out of hand and the issues aren't even being addressed anymore..sad.

I hope you have a great trip and will try to get on and put in my 2 cents in between homework haha.

Like I said, I'm smarter than that.  I saw the message behind it.  Don't worry, I have pretty strong resolve.  I'll have jet lag for 4-5 days, as it hits me pretty hard.  I'll check in as much as possible.  You hit them books brainiac...lol

[shernajwine]

They have gotten to a point of being a circular argument/discussion between sherna and queen for the most part and neither side is going to convince the other. I actually stopped reading them.

Have I been boring you jordan? LOL

As fas as this back and forth with Annella. I am seeing two intelligent people that happen to disagree on things and there is misunderstanding in tone. I can't speak for either person about what their intention is but maybe there could be a truce called? Neither of you hates each other, and there seems to be a mutual respect where intelligence is concerned. I for one don't like to see such discord.

Warning cheesy comment ahead....

Can't we all just get along? lol

[SurveyMack10]

Annella, I already posted what upsets me, from the locked thread that was a part of your reply to me there. The other thing I said pulled in here by you from the thread of walksalone? I said I found it 'interesting' that Mackenzie wrote what she did. Why? Because it was posted with a quote from you about spelling your name correctly and she mentioned the talking down to others and not addressing the issue. Maybe you do NOT find that strange, but considering you 2 are friends, I thought it odd because you have not addressed walksalone's thread, so it appeared as if she was saying what she did to you, period. I don't know why that is such a big deal, it was just a comment and not meant to incite. That in itself is ridiculous. You have said why you haven't posted, but that's between you and him.

I have made very few posts in the lengthy threads re anything Christian for a couple months now. They have gotten to a point of being a circular argument/discussion between sherna and queen for the most part and neither side is going to convince the other. I actually stopped reading them. I have said plenty to marieelissa, but if you consider that awful because she is a Christian on a given day, well, that is how you feel. I don't include her in the group of well thought out posters on here, so I do not really care.

Therein 'lies the rub' as they say. Whether I am asking questions about the bible or religion and you are answering or I make a post without being derogatory in it, it seems that somehow it usually gets turned around and you are once again putting me in a certain 'group'. If you look back at the locked thread, where I took my quote from, you will see what I am saying - in part ie :"Your taking words and using them against Christian, just like you've always done." I DO NOT always do that. You have done it many times and it comes at me out of the clear blue. Why is it I can say things to amyrouse, sherna, sheryl, other 'religious' people and I do not get a backlash? If THEY disagree with me it is never posted in the same manner that you do. I won't deny your expertise on the bible, it's there. But you are not an expert on everything out there that is talked about in these forums. NO ONE is.  It seems as if one minute you are calm and collected and the next you're making accusations, generalizations, and angry at anyone who doesn't agree with you 100%. I just don't work that way. I am NOT SAYING you do this ONLY to me. I have seen it happen with others and from their replies, they appear to be bewildered by it also.

I don't expect to be agreed with by everyone, but I do know about a few things. I just can't help wondering when you are 'nice' one minute and the next minute I feel like I can hear you seething at me because I am not in your 'christian family'. Defend your friends, I don't care about that, but I don't find it okay to put others in a bad light just to do it. I am not a doormat either. It's hard to explain, but that's the best I can do right now. I am already late for work, typed this out way too fast and I am sure I will see something I wish I had left out or put in, but I have GOT to go.

I assumed it was obvious that my comment about talking down to other was about walksalone calling annella out in the title of a thread-- I have not addressed it on the other thread. I simply meant that when the TITLE of the thread, the first thing anyone sees, is already being used to tear down others it is probably not a thread that is going to solve anything or even be about the issues.

[SurveyMack10]

I was cheering when it happend, I on that day thought it was going to trigger a whole bunch of events that would lead to the return of Christ. 
   

cheering at the death of others is not a good thing

[SurveyMack10]

It is just a building...It isn't like the ones behind the attack are putting up the building.

i have trouble following what you believe, you contradict yourself quite a lot