Fallout of Hate Is Spreading Across America from 9/11 Site

[Annella]

I guess some people have forgotten the Christians who were bombing abortion clinics in the 80's or the so-called Christians saying lovely things like "God hates fags" and "thank God for dead soldiers."  Any religion can be twisted and used to further someone's hateful agenda.  Anyone basically saying "well their religion is bad, but my religion is fine" needs a reality check.  Do I think building a mosque there is a good idea? No. I think it will lead to more violence. I also think everyone is far too concerned with what is going to be built on or near that site. You can put a memorial park there, a mosque, a church, or rebuild the towers to be even taller than before. It won't bring the people who lost their lives that day back from the dead. It won't undo the horror we witnessed.  It changes nothing.

No nothing will undo the horror we witnessed, or bring back the families loved ones.  However, does pouring salt in the wounds that are barely healed help either?  I know a couple that lost their little girl of 5 months old.  Some of the things people have told them are:  "oh, your young, you can have more kids", "she's in a better place, at least she was young when she went", and "Thank God he took her young, you didn't have to lose her when she was older....it's actually a blessing", "It's a blessing God took her, she was so sick".  Do you think that made this couple feel better, or was it a tad insensitive?  Even though there was some truth to the statements.  I didn't lose anyone in 9/11, and you probably haven't either.  Who are we to say that this isn't bringing afresh what happened that day or it feels like a slap in the face to them?

You think building the Mosque there will lead to more violence?  I agree.  Okay, so why are they so adamant to build there then?  Surely they must know how sensitive an issue it is to the American people, but "full steam ahead"!!  Or maybe when the violence does come, they can appear to be the victim instead.  They're already trying to appear the victim now.  Also, what prompted the Muslims terorrists to resort to bomb the towers in the first place?  Out of retaliation to us?  NO, it was without provocation.  Why, because of a religion that defies anyone who isn't Muslim, and must be killed, because we are infidels, according to their Koran (their bible).  Have you even read the Koran?  Have you even investigated at all what their religion is all about?  The ignorance of your post above already tells me you have not.  Have you watched any of the videos that were posted?

Do you realize that in Arab countries, if they are not followerd of the Islam faith, they are put to death?  No other religion is permitted.  It's not allowed, Only Allah can be worshipped.

There are lovely people who have come over here just to make a better life for their families.  Unfortunately, they are the minority.  On the flip side, those who bomb abortions clinics, hate fags, and are glad for dead soldiers are in the minority also.

[walksalone11]

Let's invite another attack, by all means. I mean come on it's American lives that are being lost not Muslims so it's not as big of a deal, WRONG. Use your head

Building the mosque two blocks away where it won't even be visible from the memorial is inviting another attack?  Lets take a look at the responses here...

Al-Qaeda thinks that Americans are anti-Muslim...but this huge national outcry against the CULTURAL CENTER (honestly, if anyone had gone to the website, they would know this) isn't adding fuel to that fire.  I guess it is okay for the entire nation to be crying out "no mosque!  no mosque!" and it has nothing to do with being anti-Muslim.  And I guess the cabbie that was shot because he was Arab did something to ask for it.  And I suppose the mosque/cultural center in Tennessee (remember that article I posted...yeah) has nothing to do with being anti-Muslim.  Americans are perfectly pro-Muslim, and love every single one.

I tend to disagree...I think the more the public cries out, the more bin Laden smiles to himself thinking "they are just giving me material here.  WTG, USA!"  And more fuel to that anti-American fire as well.  Religious tolerence...pssht...as long as their religion matches mine.

Well if Christians had brought down the towers I dang sure wouldn't supports a Christian church being built there either. It's disrespectful. You're being extremely naive if you think it won't cause problems and put people's safety in jeopardy.

I do believe people are going to be put in jeopardy either way.  Either some ignorant person will bomb the Cultural Center, or it won't be built and another attack by al-Qaeda will be imminent.  I'm not the one being naive here.

Haha how would NOT building it invite an attack?

Really?  You honestly can't see it?  Your vision is so singular...

You're right, everyone who doesn't agree with you has such a singular view on things. Ignorance.

You think Al Qaeda will take it as us having hard feelings over 9/11 and get mad and do it again. Right. They're gonna be really mad that we're upset they tore down our towers. Obviously we have no reason to be upset. If we'd just see the big picture we'd realize they mean well, right?

Let's say, a dog bites you while your back was turned?  You turn around and face the dog, scold him, hoping he won't do it again.  You turn back around, and he bites you again.  Not only that, he bites all your neighbors (world) when they're not looking numerous times, and somehow blames YOU for his bad behaivor, and claims you make him sleep outside.  The dog demands part of your house, and takes actions to oust you from your own house.  So, in order to keep the dog happy, you move and give him part of the house, hoping that through your kindness, the dog may learn peace and kindness.  The dog just isn't happy with your house now, he want's all the houses, and want's to turn their inhabitants into dogs like himself.  When he meets resistance to his plan, he simply kills his resistance....no questions asked.


Now you know how Israel feels.............


Get ready, because we've been introduced to that dog, and he's already bit us really hard once (1492), and you've already scolded him once...............

Yup, sounds very familiar.

I fixed your date by the way.

[Falconer02]

Well Jordandog just about owned everyone spreading fear around this thread (Anella and Mackenzie)

This isn't terrorist HQ being built?  No one said it was.  You still have to question the motivation of their choice of site, and their disregard for the sensitivity of the overall situation.  However, there will be ample space to "house" just about anyone they want to.

When I came back, Muslims had come in and bought up hugh neighborhoods, built Mosques, and pretty much kept everybody out unless you were affiliated with Islam.  Before you label me racist, you have to ask yourself if this is just random "settling in", or is there something else going on?

Yes, we have to stand by our laws, and the now fragile fabric of the foundation that this nation was founded on. However, anyone who is in the military, or any Government position dealing with national security takes an oath to protect this land against enemies, both foreign and domestic (I took it, and meant it).  THIS IS OUR COUNTRY'S LAWS!  That includes anyone who could come on US soil and kill Americans indiscriminately.  Oh, wait....they've already done that.

There were plenty of Muslims over here cheering while the twin towers burned.  A friend of mine was in a 7-11, which is owned by a Muslim, there were a lot of his friends cheering while they watched the TV mounted in the store.  It was a party atmosphere.

Do you realize that in Arab countries, if they are not followerd of the Islam faith, they are put to death?  No other religion is permitted.  It's not allowed, Only Allah can be worshipped

Fear mongering.

No, not every Arab American was cheering, and on that day I'm sure a lot of them hung their head, because of their own race and what had happened

I was in my HS physics class when the planes hit and the dude infront of me (pale white--probably Irish) started clapping as it showed it on the tv. Fortunately another kid infront of him turned around and said "A ton of people just died and you're clapping!? What the *bleep* is wrong with you!?" That shut him up immediatly since the kid in front said it really loud. The teacher didn't even respond to what was going on. Again this all stems from ignorance. Did those muslims in the 7-11 know who crashed the planes? Ultimately these individuals are just stupid assholes (be it with a religion or without) and nothing more. I spit at their lack of empathy because you don't just see this quality in muslims. You see it everywhere.

I simply love my country and my God.  IMO, I see a pattern developing with this religion, and the absolute hate they have for us.  It breeds hate and brain washes their children to carry on to the next generation.  I've mentioned before that I've been in these countries and seen it first hand.....but that's not even believed.  

This sounds vaguely familiar to some other major religion I know of. Anyway, I'm just going to requote part of the OP--

It’s an extraordinarily dangerous game, not only for the American Muslim community but for U.S. national security as well. Ali Soufan, a former FBI agent who has interrogated several dangerous terrorists, wrote this week that “when demagogues appear to be equating Islam with terrorism” it reinforces “the message that radicalizers are selling: That the war is against Islam, and Muslims are not welcome in America.” He added: “from a national security perspective, our leaders need to understand that no one is likely to be happier with the opposition to building a mosque than Osama Bin Laden. His next video script has just written itself.”

[jordandog]

Annella,
I was replying to someone else's post, not your's, but it seems you felt a need to answer for her. I am not "jumping on a bandwagon". I addressed direct and unedited comments made by that poster and hardly feel that "what has been posted is apples and oranges" if that was directed at my post.

Do you realize that in Arab countries, if they are not followerd of the Islam faith, they are put to death?  No other religion is permitted.  It's not allowed, Only Allah can be worshipped.

I have no idea where you got that from, but there are Arab Christians in Arab nations throughout the Middle East and parts of Africa. Large numbers of Arab Christians are found in Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Israel, Iraq, Jordan, the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. While they may be/feel persecuted and may be in dangerous situations at various times, I don't know of any area where they are "put to death". The way you stated that it sounds as if it is an 'automatic' thing happening. There are also a large number of Arab Jews and those of other faiths in Arab countries also.

edited to add: I don't know if you are aware of this, I highly doubt it, but a Muslim male is permitted to marry a Christian. Females are required to stay within the faith.

[Annella]

I don't appreciate my post taken, copied, and then changed to fit what you want it to say.  That is rude and absolutely unacceptable.  Walksalone....  Somehow I don't think Admin. would think this acceptable.  Write your own posts to vent your own personal vendetta.  Copying my posts, and then altering them is not acceptable.

I'm out.

To those who will read the date in my post of being 1492 was changed from the original post of 9/11, by Walksalone.  The date is 9/11, and should be viewed as such.  

[Falconer02]

...he just pointed out the hipocrisy...

[Annella]

...he just pointed out the hipocrisy...

He can do it in HIS own post, without altering mine.  If you want to "quote" my post verbatim, that's acceptable, and then add your comment below it, that's what the option is for.  There is no option on the FC Forum to do what he did.

[Annella]

Annella,
I was replying to someone else's post, not your's, but it seems you felt a need to answer for her. I am not "jumping on a bandwagon". I addressed direct and unedited comments made by that poster and hardly feel that "what has been posted is apples and oranges" if that was directed at my post.

Do you realize that in Arab countries, if they are not followerd of the Islam faith, they are put to death?  No other religion is permitted.  It's not allowed, Only Allah can be worshipped.

I have no idea where you got that from, but there are Arab Christians in Arab nations throughout the Middle East and parts of Africa. Large numbers of Arab Christians are found in Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Israel, Iraq, Jordan, the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. While they may be/feel persecuted and may be in dangerous situations at various times, I don't know of any area where they are "put to death". The way you stated that it sounds as if it is an 'automatic' thing happening. There are also a large number of Arab Jews and those of other faiths in Arab countries also.

edited to add: I don't know if you are aware of this, I highly doubt it, but a Muslim male is permitted to marry a Christian. Females are required to stay within the faith.

There are most certainly Arab Christians, but in a lot of places they have to worship underground.  Without going into detail.....I happen to know this for a fact.  It all depends where you are.  The countries you mentioned have some freedom of religion.  Especially Syria who rides the fence and can't decide who's side it's on.  However, there are parts or provinces of a couple of the countries you metioned that the Muslim religion is strictly enforced and the worship of Allah is only permitted.  Sometimes it comes down to an area no bigger than a small town.  Beheadings and stonings happen because the Mosque elders take rule somewhere and implement their own version of ther Koran.

I could go into much more detail, but knowing this is a public forum, I won't say anymore that might put my Arab Christian Brothers and Sisters in danger.

I did not mean to say everywhere, but there is enough cohersion to force some Christians underground.  I'm being vague for a reason.  The borders always change too.  I've been to the West Bank numerous times, and every time I cross over, the border has moved forward a little or back....it's kind of funny really.  Bethlehem now is under complete Arab rule.  Some churches (like the Church of the Nativity) is still open for tours, but no services are permitted.  or they weren't when I was there.  Almost every Jew or Christian has moved out, or been pushed out.  Because there are Holy sites (Rebekka's Tomb) in Bethlehem, there was a coup for the Arabs to take it over.  I couldn't get anywhere near the Tomb as it was Arab controlled and forbidden to view.  Bethlehem is actually kind of a ghost town now with very little populace.

The security wall they have up now, built around Jerusalem, leaves Bethlehem outside it.  Pictures of the wall don't show you how massive and intimidating it is in real life.  It's somehting to behold.  Jerusalem and Bethlehem are only a short ways from each other.....maybe 3 miles. 

[amyrouse]

The conversation is heated, and things are being lost on both sides.  I haven't ignored what you've posted, Annella.  I do find the examples that you have provided as blood curdling; however, I can't believe that all Muslims are this way.  Jordandog has made a post to this effect.  I agree that the planned site for the Cultural Center is insensitive; however, I don't feel that the site should be denied based solely on religion.  I understand that the posters in this thread are not all necessarily anti-Muslim; however, the arguments given have the appearance of being anti-Muslim...especially to outsiders. 

I do not believe that the Cultural Center will invite an attack from al-Qaeda.  The attacks I see occurring should the Center be built are from Americans who are anti-Muslim...and there are some out there.  I agree with Falconer02 and the writer of the article that denying the site will be a declaration of open season from al-Qaeda.  This alone is not my only motivation for thinking the Center should be built, but it is one very powerful one. 

I believe that this is a sad situation.  I, however, am not moved from my opinion that it would be wrong to deny the Cordoba Initiative the site for the Cultural Center.   

[Annella]

The conversation is heated, and things are being lost on both sides.  I haven't ignored what you've posted, Annella.  I do find the examples that you have provided as blood curdling; however, I can't believe that all Muslims are this way.  Jordandog has made a post to this effect.  I agree that the planned site for the Cultural Center is insensitive; however, I don't feel that the site should be denied based solely on religion.  I understand that the posters in this thread are not all necessarily anti-Muslim; however, the arguments given have the appearance of being anti-Muslim...especially to outsiders.  

I do not believe that the Cultural Center will invite an attack from al-Qaeda.  The attacks I see occurring should the Center be built are from Americans who are anti-Muslim...and there are some out there.  I agree with Falconer02 and the writer of the article that denying the site will be a declaration of open season from al-Qaeda.  This alone is not my only motivation for thinking the Center should be built, but it is one very powerful one.  

I believe that this is a sad situation.  I, however, am not moved from my opinion that it would be wrong to deny the Cordoba Initiative the site for the Cultural Center.  

The conversation is not heated, but I see I'm the only one posting on the no side.  No wait, Mackenzie is there also, she can't be on a lot as she had to prep for college.

Could it be that they are pushing this so hard, so they will incite anger in the American people, then when anger takes it's course and someone does something, they have an excuse for recourse of action on their part.............

Another question:  Do we roll over and give them what they want because it will be viewed (by them) as an act of rebuff against them, so they have another reason for retaliation?  Kind of like a kid throwing a fit, and wanting candy, but getting it refused?  

May I remind you that the attacks on the twin towers incited no provocation on our part whatsoever.......none!!

These are just questions...........

[freepcmoney]

I personally do not believe that the Mosque should be built there at Ground Zero, and IF it is, I believe that families of the victims of 9/11 will blow it up.....I say more power to them!!!

All things that are legal ARE NOT RIGHT!!

[Falconer02]

He can do it in HIS own post, without altering mine.

It was funnier his way though! lol I'm just kiddin' ya

The attacks on the twin towers incited no provocation on our part whatsoever.......none!!

The presence of U.S. troops in Saudi Arabia, after the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait, was the supposed reason behind the 9/11 attacks. There's a loooooooooong history of provocation between us and them.

Do we roll over and give them what they want because it will be viewed (by them) as an act of refusal against them, so they have another reason for retaliation?  Kind of like a kid throwing a fit, and wanting candy but getting it refused?  

I wouldn't say "roll over" because that implies submission. Again, we're granting them the right to do this because of our foundation of laws. Call it being taken advantage of if you want, but remember you're part of a organized religion that rubs politics in similar fashions too.

I personally do not believe that the Mosque should be built there at Ground Zero, and IF it is, I believe that families of the victims of 9/11 will blow it up.....I say more power to them!!!

Wow. That would be a *bleep* move. Talk about hypocrisy and immature vengeance.

All things that are legal ARE NOT RIGHT!!

Then go burn it down yourself, vigilante.

[Annella]

edited to add: I don't know if you are aware of this, I highly doubt it, but a Muslim male is permitted to marry a Christian. Females are required to stay within the faith.

Well thank you for insulting my intelligence, but yes, I know Arab men can marry Christians. 

[SurveyMack10]

Never did I say every Muslim is evil.

You can claim Muslims from the middle east aren't raised to hate Americans, but you'll be wrong.

I don't like terrorists.

I'm not anti-Muslims, but anti-terrorists.

Never did I say no Muslims died in 9/11.

My age at the time of the attacks is totally irrelevant and I resent you claiming you know more because you're older, try getting a more intelligent argument if you think that is at ALL relevant. I remember the day perfectly and understood even then what was going on. And don't think I've done no research on it since then. What state I'm from is also irrelevant, consider they're all in America, so I'm an AMERICAN. Although I'm SO SO SO glad to be from Texas.

Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they are narrowminded. Grow up. Not everyone is going to agree with you in life. It doesn't mean they didn't consider your viewpoint. Everyone that considers your viewpoint isn't going to back down from what they believe and say my goodness you're right how could I have been so wrong?

I read the posts on here when I have time, if I didn't want to give your viewpoint a chance
1st- I wouldn't waste my time reading it
2nd- I wouldn't bother to do any research about what you say
and 3rd- I wouldn't have a valid argument, and if you claim I don't you are simply being petty and rude because I know for a fact I am not as unintelligent as some of you would like to have it seem

---just a few things to think about

If these people weren't a minority it wouldn't be such a big deal. If white Christians tore down the towers there is no way a Christian church of white people would be put up beside groud zero. In America we have a tendency to try to make up for how our ancestors may have mistreated people of other races by giving EVERY OTHER race and religion free reign to walk all over us. It is absolutely ridiculous. At some point we have to be a little more cautious and watch out for our safety.

I don't like terrorists. I don't like terrorists. I don't like terrorists. Does that mean I think all Muslims are evil and should be gone from America. Absolutely not. I would love, however, for America to look out for the safety of its own people for once instead of trying to please everyone else.

Who is Rauf? How does he feel about American's attitudes towards Muslims? What are his intentions? WHERE IS THE FUNDING COMING FROM?

Oh, and saying I want all the Muslims to be gone from the army was a useless statement considering I said nothing of the sort and have shown multiple times I an NOT anti-Muslim.

[Annella]

He can do it in HIS own post, without altering mine.

It was funnier his way though! lol I'm just kiddin' ya

The attacks on the twin towers incited no provocation on our part whatsoever.......none!!

The presence of U.S. troops in Saudi Arabia, after the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait, was the supposed reason behind the 9/11 attacks. There's a loooooooooong history of provocation between us and them.

Do we roll over and give them what they want because it will be viewed (by them) as an act of refusal against them, so they have another reason for retaliation?  Kind of like a kid throwing a fit, and wanting candy but getting it refused?  

I wouldn't say "roll over" because that implies submission. Again, we're granting them the right to do this because of our foundation of laws. Call it being taken advantage of if you want, but remember you're part of a organized religion that rubs politics in similar fashions too.

Yes, I know we were there, but we were also protecting the innocents.  We went in with UN approval.  There's a long history with them with almost everyone Falconer.  Terrorist attacks just haven't hit us, they've struck everywhere.  We haven't half incurred their wrath like the Israelis have though.  Because we have backed Israel, we have incurred more than a lot of other nations.

If they do get permission, they will be watched, and that is a given.  I know enough about the inner workings of our Nation's security to be assured of that.

Rubs politics in a similar fashion???  Uh, I didn't get that, but not important.  You mean the Conservative vote?  it's called Democracy.