Fallout of Hate Is Spreading Across America from 9/11 Site

[amyrouse]

Thank you for sharing that with us, Falconer. It has some of the same points I wanted to bring up, just one being what was said re the double standard/freedom of religion, but declined to do so. They also voiced what amyrouse first said (I think she was the first) as far as building the center being more beneficial than not building it. Again, thanks for putting it up. Sometimes it is good to see what 'everyday' people, not politicians or heads of things with vested interest, and who are not a part of FC have to say about hot topics.

Aww...thank you, jordandog.  Its a relief to know that there are people who are reading my posts...

[SurveyMack10]

There should be no problem with them building it there. If a person does not like it then they can go a different direction so they don't need to look at it.

Um, obviously you didn't lose anybody in 9/11.  It would be insensitive to build near the place where so many died at the hands of the Muslim terrorists.

But the point is the muslims that want to build it are not the terrorists. Why do you make people suffer for what others have done just because they are the same religion?

When you can intelligently answer one of my questiona about Rauf ou can claim he isn't a terrorist.

[SurveyMack10]

There should be no problem with them building it there. If a person does not like it then they can go a different direction so they don't need to look at it.

Um, obviously you didn't lose anybody in 9/11.  It would be insensitive to build near the place where so many died at the hands of the Muslim terrorists.

But the point is the muslims that want to build it are not the terrorists. Why do you make people suffer for what others have done just because they are the same religion?

There are a lot of things going on in the Muslim world that the average American knows nothing about.  Sure, there are nice Muslim Americans, and they are not part of what's going on underneath.  You would think that if these Muslims wanting to put the mosque there were sensitive to the issue at hand, they would understand and not continue with putting it there in that spot.

So well put.

[SurveyMack10]

He had already put up a mosque in manhatten pre 9/11, maybe there is no space to build over there and they take what becomes available?

prove it.

[SurveyMack10]

This is a post from a friend on facebook on this issue-

The United States of America is the only country with a constitution allowing for the free exercise of religion without giving favor to any specific one. Jerusalem Law states that " The Holy Places shall be protected from desecration and any other violation and from anything likely to violate the freedom of access of the members of the different religions to the places sacred to them or their feelings towards those places." If the US government were to protect any religiously affiliated building, there would be an uproar, even though technically there shouldn't be. It's a double standard to say that we should have freedom of religion for Christianity and then at the same time call for the denial of rights of another religion because you're afraid or too sensitive of it.

People today seem to think that all Muslims today are terrorists and that anything to do with Islam MUST BE a terrorist plot to take down 'Merica. This is the same kind of fear mongering that led to the red scare in the 50's. Truth is the conservative view point suggests that if you believe what the founding fathers wrote in the constitution was meant to be set in stone and that there is little room for a "living translation" and individual interpretation, then why is the right wing trying to interpret the first amendment in such a way that suits them based on circumstance.

If you truly love the country you live in, you would allow for the constitutional rights of it's citizens to be upheld, if for nothing else because we live in the only country that allows people this freedom. By denying the right to build this we take away the main thing that separates the US from other countries. No other country has a law like the first amendment, and if you think that a group of citizens should be denied their rights, then you are negating the very reason we're fighting against terrorist regimes in the first place. By not letting the community center be built, you have effectively undermined the entire reason the US is fighting extremist regimes. It would literally be more beneficial to groups like Al Queada if the building of this community center is denied.

I just feel that there should be a point where minorities have some consideration for people who are hurting...We ALWAYS have freedom for minorities, but when it comes to freedom for "regular ol' Americans" it's a bit more limited. A Muslim can stand up in the media and claim a Christian is against their religion and blah blah blah, but if a Christian did the same it would be considered prejudice. If a black man stands up in the news and says white people are being racist towards him then he win and the white man is wrong, if vice versa occurs then the black man still wins and the white man being a victim of reverse racism will be dsiregarded. When a "regular ol'" church wanted to be rebuilt after 9/11 it wasn't ok, but a mosque HAVE AT IT. It's only gonna offend the people that lost their lives or their loved ones that day, and hell a lot of them are "regular ol'" Americans anyway...

I agree with a lot that you said, I just think there should be a point where people start being thankful for their freedom and stop taking advantage of it. Obama is gonna let them do whatever they want anyway.

[jordandog]

I just feel that there should be a point where minorities have some consideration for people who are hurting...We ALWAYS have freedom for minorities, but when it comes to freedom for "regular ol' Americans" it's a bit more limited. A Muslim can stand up in the media and claim a Christian is against their religion and blah blah blah, but if a Christian did the same it would be considered prejudice. If a black man stands up in the news and says white people are being racist towards him then he win and the white man is wrong, if vice versa occurs then the black man still wins and the white man being a victim of reverse racism will be dsiregarded. When a "regular ol'" church wanted to be rebuilt after 9/11 it wasn't ok, but a mosque HAVE AT IT. It's only gonna offend the people that lost their lives or their loved ones that day, and hell a lot of them are "regular ol'" Americans anyway...

I agree with a lot that you said, I just think there should be a point where people start being thankful for their freedom and stop taking advantage of it. Obama is gonna let them do whatever they want anyway.

You have brought up the subject of minorities and their [seemingly] unlimited freedom several times in this thread. To say "We ALWAYS have freedom for minorities" is painting a pretty broad stroke don't you think? Can you honestly say ALWAYS and back it up because there are many times when 'minorites' have had very little freedom in as far as laws, housing, basic rights, and many other areas of life we take for granted. This is evidenced just by looking at how this country was formed and how it is TODAY also.

When a "regular ol'" church wanted to be rebuilt after 9/11 it wasn't ok, but a mosque HAVE AT IT.

What church are you talking about here?

I am working today, so I won't be back on until later tonight to see any reply.

[jcribb16]

   I agree that there should be the freedom of religion, albeit, some in these forums try to make "faith in Jesus" a myth and not acknowlege our "religion."  The concern I have is that the goal of certain muslims is to slowly advance the world and take over as the main religion.  These are things that have been openly printed in the papers from different countries (U.S., England, and Switzerland, incl.)  They are taking advantage of our "freedom of religion" and know that because of that backing there's nothing anyone can do about it.  They are also, on a steady basis, building muslim schools and teaching their way and beliefs.  They should be backing the U.S. school education since they are supposedly citizens of the U.S.
These are concerns that really bother me.

[amyrouse]

 I agree that there should be the freedom of religion, albeit, some in these forums try to make "faith in Jesus" a myth and not acknowlege our "religion."  The concern I have is that the goal of certain muslims is to slowly advance the world and take over as the main religion.  These are things that have been openly printed in the papers from different countries (U.S., England, and Switzerland, incl.)  They are taking advantage of our "freedom of religion" and know that because of that backing there's nothing anyone can do about it.  They are also, on a steady basis, building muslim schools and teaching their way and beliefs.  They should be backing the U.S. school education since they are supposedly citizens of the U.S.
These are concerns that really bother me.

I was really concerned with "No Child Left Behind" and with the idea of school vouchers for students to attend whatever school their parents wish.  Religious and parochial schools are available to those that can pay, not government sponsored, right?

And any religion with a call to convert will do the same thing...try to spread. 

This is not me saying anything negative about Christianity itself, but pointing out the arguments that will inevitably be made toward your post.

[Annella]

 I agree that there should be the freedom of religion, albeit, some in these forums try to make "faith in Jesus" a myth and not acknowlege our "religion."  The concern I have is that the goal of certain muslims is to slowly advance the world and take over as the main religion.  These are things that have been openly printed in the papers from different countries (U.S., England, and Switzerland, incl.)  They are taking advantage of our "freedom of religion" and know that because of that backing there's nothing anyone can do about it.  They are also, on a steady basis, building muslim schools and teaching their way and beliefs.  They should be backing the U.S. school education since they are supposedly citizens of the U.S.
These are concerns that really bother me.

I was really concerned with "No Child Left Behind" and with the idea of school vouchers for students to attend whatever school their parents wish.  Religious and parochial schools are available to those that can pay, not government sponsored, right?

And any religion with a call to convert will do the same thing...try to spread.  

This is not me saying anything negative about Christianity itself, but pointing out the arguments that will inevitably be made toward your post.

I believe what she is pointing out, is just not the schools.  They are buying up businesses and property at an alarming rate.  I myself have been concerned with how much they own in California alone.  Also, most property they've bought up just sits there.  Most of it has increased in value, but hardly nothing is being sold for profit.  Like it's waiting for something.

That surplus of oil money has made it easy for them to come over, buy and build whatever they want.  Because we have free enterprise, not much is checked when large parcels of land, etc. are being bought.  I know our Mexican neighbors have come over and bought land, built houses, started businesses.  How come we are not concerned with them?  Because they have not made terrorist threats or acts against the United States.  They actually love being here, and reaping the rewards of living here.

One of the teachings of the Koran, during a Holy War (of which has already been declared), is to go into other lands, dominate, and CONVERT the inhabitants of that land to Islam.  If anyone refuses, they are put to death (I've already posted this above).  We are not the only country they are doing this with......check out France right now.  They are trying desperately not to become a country overrun by Muslims.  They are basically taking over.

I've been accused of fear mongering above.  All I'm trying to do is make us all think about what we're opening up our door to, and how fast it's being pushed open.  I've said this all above, so no matter how many times I say it, it doesn't matter.  Americans are overcompensating for the fact that they have been made to look intolerable to other races.  This is so far from the truth.  However, this "racist" card is being used most effectively by the Muslim community.  

[wsnyyankees2009]

I have no problem with a Mosque being built.

As a New Yorker, NO WAY >>> NOT ANYWHERE NEAR GROUND ZERO!!!!!!!

We Are Speaking About Here & Now........Which Is "POST 9/11"

[jcribb16]

 I agree that there should be the freedom of religion, albeit, some in these forums try to make "faith in Jesus" a myth and not acknowlege our "religion."  The concern I have is that the goal of certain muslims is to slowly advance the world and take over as the main religion.  These are things that have been openly printed in the papers from different countries (U.S., England, and Switzerland, incl.)  They are taking advantage of our "freedom of religion" and know that because of that backing there's nothing anyone can do about it.  They are also, on a steady basis, building muslim schools and teaching their way and beliefs.  They should be backing the U.S. school education since they are supposedly citizens of the U.S.
These are concerns that really bother me.

I was really concerned with "No Child Left Behind" and with the idea of school vouchers for students to attend whatever school their parents wish.  Religious and parochial schools are available to those that can pay, not government sponsored, right?

And any religion with a call to convert will do the same thing...try to spread.  

This is not me saying anything negative about Christianity itself, but pointing out the arguments that will inevitably be made toward your post.

I believe what she is pointing out, is just not the schools.  They are buying up businesses and property at an alarming rate.  I myself have been concerned with how much they own in California alone.  Also, most property they've bought up just sits there.  Most of it has increased in value, but hardly nothing is being sold for profit.  Like it's waiting for something.

That surplus of oil money has made it easy for them to come over, buy and build whatever they want.  Because we have free enterprise, not much is checked when large parcels of land, etc. are being bought.  I know our Mexican neighbors have come over and bought land, built houses, started businesses.  How come we are not concerned with them?  Because they have not made terrorist threats or acts against the United States.  They actually love being here, and reaping the rewards of living here.

One of the teachings of the Koran, during a Holy War (of which has already been declared), is to go into other lands, dominate, and CONVERT the inhabitants of that land to Islam.  If anyone refuses, they are put to death (I've already posted this above).  We are not the only country they are doing this with......check out France right now.  They are trying desperately not to become a country overrun by Muslims.  They are basically taking over.

I've been accused of fear mongering above.  All I'm trying to do is make us all think about what we're opening up our door to, and how fast it's being pushed open.  I've said this all above, so no matter how many times I say it, it doesn't matter.  Americans are overcompensating for the fact that they have been made to look intolerable to other races.  This is so far from the truth.  However, this "racist" card is being used most effectively by the Muslim community.  

Thank you, Annella.  You really helped to clarify what I meant in my post.

[jcribb16]

I have no problem with a Mosque being built.

As a New Yorker, NO WAY >>> NOT ANYWHERE NEAR GROUND ZERO!!!!!!!

We Are Speaking About Here & Now........Which Is "POST 9/11"

Thank you for standing your ground on this!!!!!!!  I agree!

[jcribb16]

If you deny them the right to build this building then freedom of religion will topple over and what's next?

Marie, would you please take the time to actually read through these posts and see what they are saying in depth?  You are not making sense when you don't respond to what they are actually saying.  I have really tried backing you up and giving you benefit of the doubt when a lot of people spar with you back and forth.  But it aggravates me when you don't read the actual posts and respond off the wall. Thank you!!!!!!

[SurveyMack10]

It is unconstitutional! I could understand if they wanted to build on Ground Zero but that is not the case.

Hm. Thought it was freedom of religion to build it wherever they wanted? That's what you said before.

[SurveyMack10]

He had already put up a mosque in manhatten pre 9/11, maybe there is no space to build over there and they take what becomes available?

prove it.

In 1990 Feisal Abdul Rauf opened al-Farah Mosque in lower Manhattan. Seven years later, he established the American Society for Muslim Advancement (ASMA), a New-York based nonprofit organization which has been run by Rauf's wife, Daisy Khan, since 2005.

http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/individualProfile.asp?indid=2462

I meant prove there is no space.