Religion and Homosexuality

[Falconer02]

Basically any opinion on here is acceptable except ones that support Christianity, right?

You don't want to be muzzled, so why should you restrict us to what you perceive as your acceptable parameters.  Here again is the Freedom of Speech application.

Maybe I wrote it wrong, but no, my point wasn't the banishment of opinions here. My point is what Queen just stated-
"your beliefs do NOT have the right to restrict basic freedoms from people who are simply different than you."

Brilliant posts, Falc!

Danke, fraulein!

[Annella]

Here's my point- It has NOT been proven that they are born that way. You can't prove it so you can't convince me (as you are trying to ). In your words, if you're the one trying to do the convincing YOU have the burden of proof. I am NOT trying to convince you, just telling you why I think it's wrong. In my opinion, it i a choice and it's wrong- I have a right to my opinion, you just cann't agree to disagree with anything I say because you disagree with my religion.

So...basically...you just totally avoided answering my question of WHY it's a choice.  I stumped you, perhaps?  Can't think of an explanation other than it's in a book that says it's bad?  Well that STILL doesn't describe how it's a "choice".

We've already given you *our* "burden of proof" by explaining how we all know you can't help who you're attracted to and if you, as a straight person, can't choose to wake up one day and suddenly start liking the same sex, what makes you think ANYONE can?

And I think the non-religious side DOES convince you, you just don't want to admit it...it convinces you if you feel for your fellow human being and grasp that there is no rational argument against it.  How do I know this?  Because I was once a Christian having my morals spoon-fed to me as well.

Again, you have all the right to not approve of gays.  But your beliefs do NOT have the right to restrict basic freedoms from people who are simply different than you.

It's been explained, and come full circle more than once in this thread.  This has been your MO.  You ask the same question, but you word it differently, over and over again.  You didn't "stump" anybody.  Go back and read over the thread.  Why should Mackenzie say the same thing over and over, the same answer.  Or anybody else for that matter?  Why it's a choice has been answered more than once in this thread, in every way it can be answered.  You asking for more explanation again is redundant.

We are not going to dispute the Bible and it's truths just because you want a loophole.  No, I can pretty much tell you for Mackenzie or any other Christian that the non-religious side did not convince us.  To be honest, if we saw your side of it, we would be the first to admit it.  Your saying things like "we gave you our burden of proof". Well.......so have we.  You just don't like the answer we gave, so you keep coming at it, with a slightly different tact, but the same questions over and over again.

I don't see anywhere where Mackenzie said anything about Gay rights.  She said she disagreed with the lifestyle. The place to make your voice heard about gay rights or anything in this country, is at the polling booth.  We live in a Democracy, and that's where we can actually make a difference one way or the other.  

[Annella]

Why are you agnostic falconer?

I read the bible.

I second that!  

Because we all know that Charles Manson is right on par with that little kid who lies about his uncle working for Nintendo.

Exactly, lol.  I don't know why believers keep saying, "All sins are the same!"  That's just nonsense!  NO THEY'RE NOT, and you know it!  Quit sinning -- a.k.a. lying.

Brilliant posts, Falc!  

qon, this has all been covered before.  Your going in circles.

[jcribb16]

Quote from queenofnines:
Again, you have all the right to not approve of gays.  But your beliefs do NOT have the right to restrict basic freedoms from people who are simply different than you.
 
It's not the peoples' beliefs that restrict the basic freedoms you are speaking of, it's the laws that are doing that.

[jcribb16]

Quote from queenofnines:
Religion has seriously convinced you that there's an invisible, evil bogeyman dude and his minions running around wreaking havoc and taking control of people's brains and bodies!!!  How can you people not see how cuckoo this is??!!!

Actually, that statement sounds absolutely ridiculous and cuckoo in itself...

[armychick09h]

im not much of a God person. But i believe the bible is hypocritical. It say one thing then states another. i cant give any examples because i no longer own a bible. But God wouldnt have made homosexuals if it was an abomination. If God is as perfect as his followers believe him to be then it doesnt matter the sexuality. They have a chance to get to heaven as the rest of them the way they are. Believe in whatever you choose, just dont dis the other persons beliefs. im sure the religions God wouldnt want that.
 

[jcribb16]

Quote from queenofnines:
I chose to be a Christian, I chose to finally do my research to get out of said Christianity, but I did not choose to be an atheist.  Given my new knowledge about god and Christianity, I had no choice but to be an atheist.  To press on being a Christian knowing what I knew about the religion delusion would be like denying that the sky is blue.  

1.  You CHOSE to be a Christian; CHOSE to do the research; CHOSE to get out of said Christianity; and you definitely CHOSE to go the atheist route -     no denying that.
2.  Scientifically speaking, the sky isn't really blue, it's black (we see it as blue because our atmosphere interacts with the sunlight passing through it-
     and is known as "Rayleigh scattering."  

[jcribb16]

Quote from queenofnines:
Granted, you might not really have much of a choice being a Christian if you were indoctrinated as a child/have spent years investing in the false enterprise.  If you never really picked up critical thinking or the ability to objectively analyze your motives, there's probably not much hope in escaping.

What you posted is a perfect example of not accepting what we believe as Christians, with you looking down superiorly on us telling all who read how we are wrong in what we do.  I may not want (choose) to be atheist, but I don't tell you that you don't think critically enough to make the "ONLY" choice that you would make.  I'm not calling your atheist way a "false enterprise."  Let the readers make up their own minds and do research with out you thumbing your nose down on the Christian choice.

[shernajwine]

knowing what I knew about the religion delusion would be like denying that the sky is blue

Sometimes it's orange lol! 

[armychick09h]

i hate tupoc. or however you spell it.

[shernajwine]

Quote from queenofnines:
Granted, you might not really have much of a choice being a Christian if you were indoctrinated as a child/have spent years investing in the false enterprise.  If you never really picked up critical thinking or the ability to objectively analyze your motives, there's probably not much hope in escaping.

What you posted is a perfect example of not accepting what we believe as Christians, with you looking down superiorly on us telling all who read how we are wrong in what we do.  I may not want (choose) to be atheist, but I don't tell you that you don't think critically enough to make the "ONLY" choice that you would make.  I'm not calling your atheist way a "false enterprise."  Let the readers make up their own minds and do research with out you thumbing your nose down on the Christian choice.

She makes assumptions and states them as facts. Stating assertively that Christians only remain Christians because they don't think critically, is setting the parameter of the box by which an intellectually honest person is allowed to think within. This is what she learned when she was indoctrinated into atheist materialist thinking.

You won't be able to talk sense into her, I and probably many others have tried 

[Annella]

Quote from queenofnines:
Granted, you might not really have much of a choice being a Christian if you were indoctrinated as a child/have spent years investing in the false enterprise.  If you never really picked up critical thinking or the ability to objectively analyze your motives, there's probably not much hope in escaping.

What you posted is a perfect example of not accepting what we believe as Christians, with you looking down superiorly on us telling all who read how we are wrong in what we do.  I may not want (choose) to be atheist, but I don't tell you that you don't think critically enough to make the "ONLY" choice that you would make.  I'm not calling your atheist way a "false enterprise."  Let the readers make up their own minds and do research with out you thumbing your nose down on the Christian choice.

She makes assumptions and states them as facts. Stating assertively that Christians only remain Christians because they don't think critically, is setting the parameter of the box by which an intellectually honest person is allowed to think within. This is what she learned when she was indoctrinated into atheist materialist thinking.

You won't be able to talk sense into her, I and probably many others have tried 

That's pretty much it.

[jcribb16]

Quote from queenofnines:
Granted, you might not really have much of a choice being a Christian if you were indoctrinated as a child/have spent years investing in the false enterprise.  If you never really picked up critical thinking or the ability to objectively analyze your motives, there's probably not much hope in escaping.

What you posted is a perfect example of not accepting what we believe as Christians, with you looking down superiorly on us telling all who read how we are wrong in what we do.  I may not want (choose) to be atheist, but I don't tell you that you don't think critically enough to make the "ONLY" choice that you would make.  I'm not calling your atheist way a "false enterprise."  Let the readers make up their own minds and do research with out you thumbing your nose down on the Christian choice.

She makes assumptions and states them as facts. Stating assertively that Christians only remain Christians because they don't think critically, is setting the parameter of the box by which an intellectually honest person is allowed to think within. This is what she learned when she was indoctrinated into atheist materialist thinking.

You won't be able to talk sense into her, I and probably many others have tried 

Thanks, Sherna.  I guess it provokes me into defending against those kinds of remarks because there are newbies that come in and others who come in and read these posts. Maybe there's no need to defend because when I actually stop and think about it, those readers should be able to spot hyprocritical posts from debating posts; in other words, they can tell when someone else makes our choices for us and doesn't allow for discussion. Your picture describes it perfectly.

[SurveyMack10]

Here's my point- It has NOT been proven that they are born that way. You can't prove it so you can't convince me (as you are trying to ). In your words, if you're the one trying to do the convincing YOU have the burden of proof. I am NOT trying to convince you, just telling you why I think it's wrong. In my opinion, it i a choice and it's wrong- I have a right to my opinion, you just cann't agree to disagree with anything I say because you disagree with my religion.

So...basically...you just totally avoided answering my question of WHY it's a choice.  I stumped you, perhaps?  Can't think of an explanation other than it's in a book that says it's bad?  Well that STILL doesn't describe how it's a "choice".

We've already given you *our* "burden of proof" by explaining how we all know you can't help who you're attracted to and if you, as a straight person, can't choose to wake up one day and suddenly start liking the same sex, what makes you think ANYONE can?

And I think the non-religious side DOES convince you, you just don't want to admit it...it convinces you if you feel for your fellow human being and grasp that there is no rational argument against it.  How do I know this?  Because I was once a Christian having my morals spoon-fed to me as well.

Again, you have all the right to not approve of gays.  But your beliefs do NOT have the right to restrict basic freedoms from people who are simply different than you.

No, you do NOT get to decide how or why I feel like I do- I do NOT have my morals spoon fed to me- and contrary to what you think I DO have a brain.

It IS a choice. I CHOSE to date the guy I am dating now. My parents chose to get married.
I have great connections with girls, my best friends. We are very close, like sisters. Am I going to jump in her pants? Absolutely not.
Why? I choose not to.  
You don't believe in free will though right? Or something like that, so I understand why you don't think it's a choice.
I'm a firm believer in free will and all of us being held accountable for our choices.
You are just as closeminded as an atheist as you accuse us "closeminded Christians" of being- you just wont open you eyes and see it.
I am not going to say it again- it's a choice.
My proof? You choose to be with who you want to be with, I choose to be with who I want to be with, we all do every day.
Your "proof" is bogus and just backs up the fact that neither of our opinions have been officially proven- so your claim is opinion just as mine is.
BUT- as you have argued on many other threads, YOU have the burden of proof on this one.
So the next time I ask you to prove God doesn't exist and you tell me that I have the burden of proof- remember that you hypocritically aren't following that rule right here on this thread.

[SurveyMack10]

We all make life choices from infancy to adulthood that influence what we are today.

Infancy?  You really think a baby with mush for brains can make conscious decisions?

Why are you atheist qon?  Why are we Christian?  We are what we chose to be.

I chose to be a Christian, I chose to finally do my research to get out of said Christianity, but I did not choose to be an atheist.  Given my new knowledge about god and Christianity, I had no choice but to be an atheist.  To press on being a Christian knowing what I knew about the religion delusion would be like denying that the sky is blue.  

Granted, you might not really have much of a choice being a Christian if you were indoctrinated as a child/have spent years investing in the false enterprise.  If you never really picked up critical thinking or the ability to objectively analyze your motives, there's probably not much hope in escaping.

The Bible speaks of the enemy (devil).  He is the influencer, of all things evil.  His job description is to steal, kill, and destroy.

Again, if you never really picked up critical thinking or the ability to objectively analyze your motives, there's probably not much hope in escaping.

Religion has seriously convinced you that there's an invisible, evil bogeyman dude and his minions running around wreaking havoc and taking control of people's brains and bodies!!!  How can you people not see how cuckoo this is??!!!

Actually you're the one who think controls people's brains and bodies, we believe in free will.