Religion and Homosexuality

[Annella]

Whoa Whoa!  I did not direct my post at anyone personally...nor was it directed at anyone on this forum.  It was a generalized statement.  Why is it, then, that my throat is being jumped down?  

It cannot be denied that in the outside world (not this forum) that gays are discriminated against and are hated.  I am not accusing anyone on this forum of any of this.

Annella, why are you bringing racism up with me?  I never mentioned it.  I made a blanket statement about the country's general consensus...not yours or anyone else here.  Please take the time to re-read what I wrote.

I understand perfectly what the topic of this thread is.  I never said "get over it" or "why are you talking about it".  My words were why is this "sin" considered so big when there are other ones and why are people so offended by it.

Annella, you have said many times on this forum not to own something that isn't directed at you personally.  I respectfully would like to remind you of those words and urge you to take your own advice.

All through this thread, we as Christians have being discriminating, prejudiced, or hate gays, we're not singling out this one sin above any others.  I never said you said "get over it".  While I'm not jumping down your throat Amy, you alluded to the same things we have been trying to say we are NOT doing.

Unless you agree with Kinsey's levels of sexuality, though, no one knows another person's sexuality until that other person is comfortable enough to share it.  IMO, though, there is too much concern in this society on what people do in the privacy of their own bedrooms.  People who discriminate against others based on who they prefer to be horizontally naked with?  That's ridiculous...whether or not it is believed to be a sin.  Like Marie said, there are so many other sins that people conveniently ignore on a day to day basis.  Why is this one so big?  Why does it offend so many so personally?  Its not like they are trying to convert...

We do NOT hate gays, etc.  No matter what we say, it's still not heard.  I for one have been applied some pretty nasty titles that have nothing to do with how I actually feel, no matter what I say.  They were directed personally. So excuse me if I'd like to set the record straight whenever I see the same being alluded to again.

if I misinterpreted what you were trying to imply in your post, then apology offered.  However, we have diligently been trying to separate what we actually feel as Christians and are forever "lumped" into the discriminatory side of things....this is not true, but all through this thread it's been so accordingly.  If you were implying this to those outside this forum.....your original post did not signify the difference.

[SurveyMack10]

Whoa Whoa!  I did not direct my post at anyone personally...nor was it directed at anyone on this forum.  It was a generalized statement.  Why is it, then, that my throat is being jumped down? 

It cannot be denied that in the outside world (not this forum) that gays are discriminated against and are hated.  I am not accusing anyone on this forum of any of this.

Annella, why are you bringing racism up with me?  I never mentioned it.  I made a blanket statement about the country's general consensus...not yours or anyone else here.  Please take the time to re-read what I wrote.

I understand perfectly what the topic of this thread is.  I never said "get over it" or "why are you talking about it".  My words were why is this "sin" considered so big when there are other ones and why are people so offended by it.

Annella, you have said many times on this forum not to own something that isn't directed at you personally.  I respectfully would like to remind you of those words and urge you to take your own advice.

idk if you thought i was jumping down your throat but i wasn't, just clarifying

[Annella]

Whoa Whoa!  I did not direct my post at anyone personally...nor was it directed at anyone on this forum.  It was a generalized statement.  Why is it, then, that my throat is being jumped down? 

It cannot be denied that in the outside world (not this forum) that gays are discriminated against and are hated.  I am not accusing anyone on this forum of any of this.

Annella, why are you bringing racism up with me?  I never mentioned it.  I made a blanket statement about the country's general consensus...not yours or anyone else here.  Please take the time to re-read what I wrote.

I understand perfectly what the topic of this thread is.  I never said "get over it" or "why are you talking about it".  My words were why is this "sin" considered so big when there are other ones and why are people so offended by it.

Annella, you have said many times on this forum not to own something that isn't directed at you personally.  I respectfully would like to remind you of those words and urge you to take your own advice.

idk if you thought i was jumping down your throat but i wasn't, just clarifying

Mackenzie, she was posting back at me....not you hon.

[SurveyMack10]

Whoa Whoa!  I did not direct my post at anyone personally...nor was it directed at anyone on this forum.  It was a generalized statement.  Why is it, then, that my throat is being jumped down? 

It cannot be denied that in the outside world (not this forum) that gays are discriminated against and are hated.  I am not accusing anyone on this forum of any of this.

Annella, why are you bringing racism up with me?  I never mentioned it.  I made a blanket statement about the country's general consensus...not yours or anyone else here.  Please take the time to re-read what I wrote.

I understand perfectly what the topic of this thread is.  I never said "get over it" or "why are you talking about it".  My words were why is this "sin" considered so big when there are other ones and why are people so offended by it.

Annella, you have said many times on this forum not to own something that isn't directed at you personally.  I respectfully would like to remind you of those words and urge you to take your own advice.

idk if you thought i was jumping down your throat but i wasn't, just clarifying

Mackenzie, she was posting back at me....not you hon.

just wanted to make sure she didnt misunderstand me because i responded to her as well

[SurveyMack10]

I do not hate anyone, this includes gays. I do not hate gays- just to make sure it got across. I do not discriminate against gays. I do not agree with their lifestyle. I do not go around harping on the issue.  This is a thread ABOUT gays. That is why I am talking about it. I am on a forum that is meant to discuss things, within that forum I am on a thread about gays, I am discussing it. I do not hate gays. I do not think homosexuality is a higher sin than any other. I never in any way said that. I do NOT think being gay is worse than any other sin- just reiterating. I do think being gay is a choice. I know it cannot be proven otherwise. I never said gay sex affects me personally. It is a topic being discussed on a forum, which is why we are talking about it. CHRISTIANS DO NOT HATE GAYS, OR ANYONE FOR THAT MATTER.

[shernajwine]

The bible doesn't even address the issue of hermaphrodites so it's hard to distinguish God's position about them.

I thought you said the Bible had all the answers?     Ah, well, I'm sure some slick creationist website can craft an "answer" to this issue.  God and "science", perhaps?

The bible has answers for those who seek a relationship with God. Go ahead and mock the website. In psychology, sarcasm is often noted as insecurity and veiled aggression. So with your continuing comments about that site...it seems a psychologist may say you are threatened by it 

Not that the individual themselves sinned but we are all under the curse of sin and live in imperfect bodies

Thanks god.  Biblical contradiction #9,782: Fathers shall not be put to death for their children, nor children put to death for their fathers; each is to die for his own sin. –Deuteronomy 24:16 and then 

He does not leave the guilty unpunished; he punishes the children and their children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation. – Exodus 34:7

The Deuteronomy passage is speaking of justice in the Israelites' legal system, saying that the Israelites could not legally punish one man for the sins of another.

Exodus 34:7  Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.

Once our sins are forgiven, God does not hold them against us, but the world does. What we do can have an affect on our children, and their children, etc.  Not a contradiction.

[jordandog]

If I voted against a Christian lifestyle, if I preached against a Christian lifestyle, or if I said a Christian lifestyle was 'unnatural', people would yell discrimination against Christians from the rooftops, yet you all keep saying you DO NOT discriminate against gays. Just what do you perceive discrimination as?! Talk about putting lipstick on a pig.....

[amyrouse]

All through this thread, we as Christians have being discriminating, prejudiced, or hate gays, we're not singling out this one sin above any others.  I never said you said "get over it".  While I'm not jumping down your throat Amy, you alluded to the same things we have been trying to say we are NOT doing.

I alluded to saying you were racist, prejudiced, and hated gays by saying this:

Unless you agree with Kinsey's levels of sexuality, though, no one knows another person's sexuality until that other person is comfortable enough to share it.  IMO, though, there is too much concern in this society on what people do in the privacy of their own bedrooms.  People who discriminate against others based on who they prefer to be horizontally naked with?  That's ridiculous...whether or not it is believed to be a sin.  Like Marie said, there are so many other sins that people conveniently ignore on a day to day basis.  Why is this one so big?  Why does it offend so many so personally?  Its not like they are trying to convert...

It wasn't even directed at you, Annella!  You should know I wouldn't accuse you of that.  I love and respect you too much for that.  You're lumping me into a group with everyone on this thread that has been disagreeing with you...I've even disagreed with others on your behalf and it hurts that out of your frustration you would do this.  I guess its true, though, that we hurt the ones we love first, right?  In fact...I don't even think I mentioned any religion specifically in this quote of mine.  I don't know why, in a response coming from me, you would assume that I was bashing Christianity.

We do NOT hate gays, etc.  No matter what we say, it's still not heard.  I for one have been applied some pretty nasty titles that have nothing to do with how I actually feel, no matter what I say.  They were directed personally. So excuse me if I'd like to set the record straight whenever I see the same being alluded to again.

if I misinterpreted what you were trying to imply in your post, then apology offered.  However, we have diligently been trying to separate what we actually feel as Christians and are forever "lumped" into the discriminatory side of things....this is not true, but all through this thread it's been so accordingly.  If you were implying this to those outside this forum.....your original post did not signify the difference.

I haven't accused anyone on this forum of hating gays in this response.  I've heard you.  I even made a concentrated effort to label homosexuality as a sin when I don't believe it is.  I know you've been applied some nasty titles...I remember...remember me defending you?  I am sorry if you think my words were intended to be an attack to you or anyone else on this forum; they weren't.  I try my hardest to be careful with what I type, but I guess I made a mistake.  Please forgive me.

[SurveyMack10]

If I voted against a Christian lifestyle, if I preached against a Christian lifestyle, or if I said a Christian lifestyle was 'unnatural', people would yell discrimination against Christians from the rooftops, yet you all keep saying you DO NOT discriminate against gays. Just what do you perceive discrimination as?! Talk about putting lipstick on a pig.....

If you spoke against Christianity on a forum titled -- Christianity, what do you think? that's not discrimination? If I was yelling all my opinions at gays in the street it would be one thing, answering to a post on a forum is totally another. Either way we're not discriminating against it just saying we feel it is wrong.

Most Christians on here don't get mad when yall say yall disagree with our lifestyle, just when we are told how utterly silly and insane we are, I haven't seen someone tell a gay person he is anyone of these things. Just simply, I disagree.

[jordandog]

If I voted against a Christian lifestyle, if I preached against a Christian lifestyle, or if I said a Christian lifestyle was 'unnatural', people would yell discrimination against Christians from the rooftops, yet you all keep saying you DO NOT discriminate against gays. Just what do you perceive discrimination as?! Talk about putting lipstick on a pig.....

If you spoke against Christianity on a forum titled -- Christianity, what do you think? that's not discrimination? If I was yelling all my opinions at gays in the street it would be one thing, answering to a post on a forum is totally another. Either way we're not discriminating against it just saying we feel it is wrong.

Most Christians on here don't get mad when yall say yall disagree with our lifestyle, just when we are told how utterly silly and insane we are, I haven't seen someone tell a gay person he is anyone of these things. Just simply, I disagree.

  That is one of the weakest rebuttals I have seen. You are in NO way being held back in this country from practicing your lifestyle and /or living your life in the way YOU choose to.

[Annella]

All through this thread, we as Christians have being discriminating, prejudiced, or hate gays, we're not singling out this one sin above any others.  I never said you said "get over it".  While I'm not jumping down your throat Amy, you alluded to the same things we have been trying to say we are NOT doing.

I alluded to saying you were racist, prejudiced, and hated gays by saying this:

Unless you agree with Kinsey's levels of sexuality, though, no one knows another person's sexuality until that other person is comfortable enough to share it.  IMO, though, there is too much concern in this society on what people do in the privacy of their own bedrooms.  People who discriminate against others based on who they prefer to be horizontally naked with?  That's ridiculous...whether or not it is believed to be a sin.  Like Marie said, there are so many other sins that people conveniently ignore on a day to day basis.  Why is this one so big?  Why does it offend so many so personally?  Its not like they are trying to convert...

It wasn't even directed at you, Annella!  You should know I wouldn't accuse you of that.  I love and respect you too much for that.  You're lumping me into a group with everyone on this thread that has been disagreeing with you...I've even disagreed with others on your behalf and it hurts that out of your frustration you would do this.  I guess its true, though, that we hurt the ones we love first, right?  In fact...I don't even think I mentioned any religion specifically in this quote of mine.  I don't know why, in a response coming from me, you would assume that I was bashing Christianity.

We do NOT hate gays, etc.  No matter what we say, it's still not heard.  I for one have been applied some pretty nasty titles that have nothing to do with how I actually feel, no matter what I say.  They were directed personally. So excuse me if I'd like to set the record straight whenever I see the same being alluded to again.

if I misinterpreted what you were trying to imply in your post, then apology offered.  However, we have diligently been trying to separate what we actually feel as Christians and are forever "lumped" into the discriminatory side of things....this is not true, but all through this thread it's been so accordingly.  If you were implying this to those outside this forum.....your original post did not signify the difference.

I haven't accused anyone on this forum of hating gays in this response.  I've heard you.  I even made a concentrated effort to label homosexuality as a sin when I don't believe it is.  I know you've been applied some nasty titles...I remember...remember me defending you?  I am sorry if you think my words were intended to be an attack to you or anyone else on this forum; they weren't.  I try my hardest to be careful with what I type, but I guess I made a mistake.  Please forgive me.

No please forgive me.  I must have misunderstood.  I did not mean to hurt you.  I am frustrated with all that we have been accused of, when we have clarified time after time what we actually are saying.  Now excuse me while I go answer this question again.

[jcribb16]

If I voted against a Christian lifestyle, if I preached against a Christian lifestyle, or if I said a Christian lifestyle was 'unnatural', people would yell discrimination against Christians from the rooftops, yet you all keep saying you DO NOT discriminate against gays. Just what do you perceive discrimination as?! Talk about putting lipstick on a pig.....

I would like to set something straight regarding myself and several Christians on these forums.  First, ALL Christians are not the same type of Christians: some are reserved, some are critical, some are merciful, some are nonjudgmental, etc.  It's a real shame that it APPEARS to us on here that ALL Christians are being lumped together as a "delusional, looney-bin, crazy, stupid" group.  That is wrong.  I, for one, and some others on here, are not lumping ALL non-believers into an ATHEIST group only.  That's ridiculous, too. 

Saying that,  I wish to re-say what I've said once on here (and have seen others write), that I do NOT, dislike gays, do NOT harass them, and do NOT judge them.  It does talk in God's Word about disapproval on His end, but it doesn't mean He still does not love them.  I am not the judge in life, unless I want to be judged in my life of things that may not be approved of.  I have gay friends that are just as nice and sweet as they can be, even have a couple who are renters in our other house we own.  They are clean and neat, respectful, and are wonderful house decorators.  I may not believe in their lifestyle but there are things they may not like in my lifestyle, either.  But we give each other the respect and friendship we have right now.  Where is the discrimination in this?  Huh?

[jcribb16]

The bible doesn't even address the issue of hermaphrodites so it's hard to distinguish God's position about them.

I thought you said the Bible had all the answers?     Ah, well, I'm sure some slick creationist website can craft an "answer" to this issue.  God and "science", perhaps?

Not that the individual themselves sinned but we are all under the curse of sin and live in imperfect bodies

Thanks god.  Biblical contradiction #9,782: Fathers shall not be put to death for their children, nor children put to death for their fathers; each is to die for his own sin. –Deuteronomy 24:16 and then 

He does not leave the guilty unpunished; he punishes the children and their children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation. – Exodus 34:7

Just in case anyone is interested in checking into this further:  http://www.gotquestions.org/hermaphrodites.html

[Annella]

If I voted against a Christian lifestyle, if I preached against a Christian lifestyle, or if I said a Christian lifestyle was 'unnatural', people would yell discrimination against Christians from the rooftops, yet you all keep saying you DO NOT discriminate against gays. Just what do you perceive discrimination as?! Talk about putting lipstick on a pig.....

Christians have been discriminated against in the past and have died for their beliefs.  In some countries they still are!  We as Christians must adhere to God and His Word as we live our life by that Word.  Regardless if it's contrary to popular opinion or not.  This includes what the Bible calls sin......ANY sin.

If a gay person comes into our assembly, nobody better mistreat them or they have me to answer to. Do I wait until a gay person walks into church, and then "blast" them from the pulpit?  Absolutely not.  Do I preach against it? Absolutely!  In our own gatherings with our own members.  Or I'm teaching on it through a Bible Study.  Do I go out on the street corner and start gay bashing......no.  Even when I'm addressing it in the church, it's done with warning for our own people.  Wisdom is always use for the appropriate venue or audience.

I was accused on this thread of not knowing any gay people at all.  If you only knew.  The man who stayed in my house while I was gone used to be gay, and I knew him then.  The only reason I didn't mention him is that someone on this forum knows his name, and his past lifestyle is just that.....past, and I didn't want to reveal anything about him without his consent.  It's a Ministerial Confidentiality situation.  He has since told me I could reveal the fact he stayed at my home.  He's been following this forum pretty closely.

I have people in my life that are still in the gay lifestyle.  Are they friends?  Well, if I'm in Starbucks, and they walk in, and I ask them to come over to visit with me, and we spend 2 hours talking and laughing....what would you call it?  Not just once either.  Lunch, dinner, and all kinds of social situations.

Discrimination would be "shunning' them, or treating that they are inferior to us......ubsurd!  We don't do that. Being in disagreement to a lifestyle and discrimination are 2 different and separate things.

[jordandog]

It's a real shame that it APPEARS to us on here that ALL Christians are being lumped together as a "delusional, looney-bin, crazy, stupid" group.

I have never used any of those words, just for the record. Perhaps I should have qualified "you" as Christians and not just those in these forums. As for the rest of what you wrote, jcribb, I keep seeing the same thing over and over and I DO understand what you are saying. However, I cannot get around the thinking that by you collectively justifying your stance because of [any and all] religion and what is written in the bible, you are NOT holding a large number of people back from living their lives. That is how I feel and how I see it.