Religion and Homosexuality

[queenofnines]

Why do you care if people are gay? I mean really, don't you have enough on your plate?

THAT IS THE TOPIC OF THIS THREAD. If you don't want to discuss it do us all a favor and get off.

Uh, marie asks a valid question: why do y'all care so much about somebody being gay?  Just because some book says so...weak...

At least with killing, raping, and stealing, there are REAL reasons for those being wrong.  Because, you know, those actually AFFECT your life if done to you or someone you love.

What some fabulous diva does in his bedroom?  That affects your life 0%.

[SurveyMack10]

Why do you care if people are gay? I mean really, don't you have enough on your plate?

THAT IS THE TOPIC OF THIS THREAD. If you don't want to discuss it do us all a favor and get off.

Uh, marie asks a valid question: why do y'all care so much about somebody being gay?  Just because some book says so...weak...

At least with killing, raping, and stealing, there are REAL reasons for those being wrong.  Because, you know, those actually AFFECT your life if done to you or someone you love.

What some fabulous diva does in his bedroom?  That affects your life 0%.

No one said we are going to attack them in the street and say YOU ARE WRONG. Do you agree with everything that doesn't affect your life? No. My Christianity affects your life none whatsoever, yet you disagree with it. I can disagree with gays and not discriminate against them. I live in this world, so I have the right to agree or disagree with things I witness daily. It doesn't mean I'm going to voice it constantly, I didn't start this thread? It was brought up on a debate/discuss forum. That is why we are discussing it. Furthermore, whether or not it is wrong is really just an opinion so you can sit here and tell me it's not all day and I'm never going to agree, just like I can sit here and tell you there's a God all day and you're never going to agree.

[shernajwine]

What about people that are born both male and female...I mean is that a sin? Which sex do they go after? How could God hate a sin...Then?

This is a very good point.    I'd like to hear a Christian's answer on this...

Also, people who have a sex change because they are absolutely miserable living in the "wrong" body.  I'm sure Christians will just think that's a choice, too...but what about children, like Angelina Jolie's little girl, Shiloh?  She's only like, 4 and wants to be a boy...whatever, I'm sure it's just a "choice"!!

It is definitely in interesting question. The bible doesn't even address the issue of hermaphrodites so it's hard to distinguish God's position about them. What we know is that those born with both sexual organs will have an internal gender identity and as they mature they will know what gender they are and can make a decision to opt for surgery to solidify their true gender. We know sin entering the world sometimes takes it toll in our physical bodies causing deformities, and this is one of those cases.

 (Not that the individual themselves sinned but we are all under the curse of sin and live in imperfect bodies in an imperfect world...I know your argument about how God can't be perfect and create imperfection so I don't need a reminder)

As for people who are born a specific sex and find that they are unhappy with what they were born as....I don't really know. I have wondered this myself. The bible only addresses homosexuality not gender confusion, so I can't say I know what God thinks about it.

What I DO know is, that no matter WHAT, every single person is precious to God, and He loves them regardless of any of that.  

[SurveyMack10]

God provided us with doctors to help children who are born with both parts and help determine what went wrong and what their hormones read.
Having a sex change IS a choice, how could it not be?
When I was little I was a total tomboy, and I still am somewhat of a tomboy to this day, play sports all the time. Her wanting to be a boy has nothing to do with sexuality, she is FOUR.

Her wanting to be a boy will turn into her being gay or bi most likely...also, it means she isn't feminine...little girls usually love dresses and pink...this is why people are born that way and not by choice.

I am curious if she likes I mean likes little girls or little boys.

Okay that is absolutely not true. My sister and I both were tomboys and played sports and played in the mud and she's married and I'm far from gay, so don't generalize.

[SurveyMack10]

There is a ton more sin than just being gay. I don't know why this is the focus...like the people who are against being gay don't commit other sins or is this the only "sin" you don't commit so you are all Gung-ho?...having sex before marriage is a sin. Divorce is a sin (just cause you got sick of each other is not valid) and there are the 7 deadly sins...

If being gay is a sin, o'well...being too rich is a sin as well. In america though, it is ok...but

it is easier for a camel to walk through a needles eye than a rich person to enter heaven.

Homosexuality is NOT the only sin I focus on, I don't focus on talking about sin at all really--I'm just responding to a THREAD on a FORUM. && as for you deciding that is the only sin I don't commit, it's not the ONLY one I don't commit. But you're right, I sin every day (I'm human).

[SurveyMack10]

Her wanting to be a boy will turn into her being gay or bi most likely...also, it means she isn't feminine...little girls usually love dresses and pink...this is why people are born that way and not by choice.

All it means is you are not as feminine as other girls. That's all, not all times will these boy girls turn gay or bi.

Make up your mind. IDK what you think because that was a blatant contradiction.

[SurveyMack10]

Her wanting to be a boy will turn into her being gay or bi most likely...also, it means she isn't feminine...little girls usually love dresses and pink...this is why people are born that way and not by choice.

All it means is you are not as feminine as other girls. That's all, not all times will these boy girls turn gay or bi.

Make up your mind. IDK what you think because that was a blatant contradiction.

It isn't black or white...people are different. Some boy girls turn bi or gay some don't.

Yes, some choose to and some don't.

[SurveyMack10]

I think I understand what you are thinking so I will go into further detail..

At four years old...I would think you are not sexually active or have a preference with sex. You are still innocent and are not thinking in sexual ways. When children start to explore their sexuality, take notice....they will either go for the same sex or opposite and maybe both...since they dont think in terms of sin or people hating gay people, children are very honest.

You will see it and maybe not. If you have children, set up a hidden camera at sleepovers...you might just be surprised. 

honestly even the thought of setting up a camera to watch kids "explore their sexuality" just sounds extremely creepy
secondly, by the time we get to an age where we would EXPLORE our sexuality we know the difference between right and wrong
people dont always explore both and that's a fact
they choose to in some cases however

[amyrouse]

Regardless of whether or not you want to believe it, humans are sexual beings from birth...we just don't label it that way until we are older.  The difference is, this is a purely innocent form of sexuality.  Once babies start gaining control over their movements, they start to explore...and guess what?  Some places being touched and rubbed feel better than others.  My daughter went through a period where she wanted to keep her hands down her pants, and she still explores herself with her fingers...doesn't mean its dirty, and doesn't mean she is showing a preference to either sex.  Same for little boys.  And there is nothing wrong with it (although I have had arguments with my mother in law for insinuating to my daughter that she was dirty for touching herself...I was highly p/o'd and told her in no uncertain terms was she ever to say anything like that to my daughter again if she wanted to see her in person...but that is another topic for another thread). 

Unless you agree with Kinsey's levels of sexuality, though, no one knows another person's sexuality until that other person is comfortable enough to share it.  IMO, though, there is too much concern in this society on what people do in the privacy of their own bedrooms.  People who discriminate against others based on who they prefer to be horizontally naked with?  That's ridiculous...whether or not it is believed to be a sin.  Like Marie said, there are so many other sins that people conveniently ignore on a day to day basis.  Why is this one so big?  Why does it offend so many so personally?  Its not like they are trying to convert...

[Annella]

Yep, that's the person I was referring to.  Thanks, jordandog!

Annella...proof that this here atheist doesn't lie.   

Okay I'll give it to you.  I registered June 12th, so it's a good chance I missed it.  It took me awhile to get acclimated to the FC site.  The Christians I'm actually referring to, are those who post here all the time.  I've never seen them use the F word, the word hate, or any other curse word, nor would I ever expect to see it.  Their conversation is above board.  I think you understand with whom I'm referring to.  The handle your referring to, doesn't post in here now or I've just missed it.

In fact, anyone, Christian or otherwise who uses that kind of language to get their point across is showing how weak minded they are.  Not everyone who calls themselves Christian have the "fruits" of one.  The "Christians" on this forum that post almost everyday have attributes of Christian Character.

I apologize if you feel I called you a liar.  I'd went back over the last month of conversations the best I could and found nothing what you pointed out.  I didn't go back far enough.  

[SurveyMack10]

Regardless of whether or not you want to believe it, humans are sexual beings from birth...we just don't label it that way until we are older.  The difference is, this is a purely innocent form of sexuality.  Once babies start gaining control over their movements, they start to explore...and guess what?  Some places being touched and rubbed feel better than others.  My daughter went through a period where she wanted to keep her hands down her pants, and she still explores herself with her fingers...doesn't mean its dirty, and doesn't mean she is showing a preference to either sex.  Same for little boys.  And there is nothing wrong with it (although I have had arguments with my mother in law for insinuating to my daughter that she was dirty for touching herself...I was highly p/o'd and told her in no uncertain terms was she ever to say anything like that to my daughter again if she wanted to see her in person...but that is another topic for another thread). 

Unless you agree with Kinsey's levels of sexuality, though, no one knows another person's sexuality until that other person is comfortable enough to share it.  IMO, though, there is too much concern in this society on what people do in the privacy of their own bedrooms.  People who discriminate against others based on who they prefer to be horizontally naked with?  That's ridiculous...whether or not it is believed to be a sin.  Like Marie said, there are so many other sins that people conveniently ignore on a day to day basis.  Why is this one so big?  Why does it offend so many so personally?  Its not like they are trying to convert...

The difference in children touching themselves though is their level of innocense, they don't mean it in a sexual manner. I never said it bothered me, I said I disagree with it. It has been distored on here many times that it bothers me that people are gay, I don't say a darn thing to them. I just disagree with it and have that right. I didn't start the thread, so no I don't hold it higher than other sins.

[Annella]

Regardless of whether or not you want to believe it, humans are sexual beings from birth...we just don't label it that way until we are older.  The difference is, this is a purely innocent form of sexuality.  Once babies start gaining control over their movements, they start to explore...and guess what?  Some places being touched and rubbed feel better than others.  My daughter went through a period where she wanted to keep her hands down her pants, and she still explores herself with her fingers...doesn't mean its dirty, and doesn't mean she is showing a preference to either sex.  Same for little boys.  And there is nothing wrong with it (although I have had arguments with my mother in law for insinuating to my daughter that she was dirty for touching herself...I was highly p/o'd and told her in no uncertain terms was she ever to say anything like that to my daughter again if she wanted to see her in person...but that is another topic for another thread). 

Unless you agree with Kinsey's levels of sexuality, though, no one knows another person's sexuality until that other person is comfortable enough to share it.  IMO, though, there is too much concern in this society on what people do in the privacy of their own bedrooms.  People who discriminate against others based on who they prefer to be horizontally naked with?  That's ridiculous...whether or not it is believed to be a sin.  Like Marie said, there are so many other sins that people conveniently ignore on a day to day basis.  Why is this one so big?  Why does it offend so many so personally?  Its not like they are trying to convert...

It's not being taken personally....it's the topic of the thread!  Your applying discrimination also, which is not being done.  The fact that this has been labeled likened as any other sin....I brought that out also.  So trying to call us out on these things AGAIN is not quite fair.

We do not hate gays....been said before
We do not discriminate against gays.....been said before
We are not racist or prejudice....been said before
We are not singling this out as the ultimate sin.....been said before

What we do is live by the foundations of the Word of God, and don't want this lifestyle shoved down our throats as being acceptable.  What we CAN'T do is say this is okay.  We cannot be partakers in other mens sin.....no matter what it is.  In word or deed.  All through Biblical history, this was a sin that polluted a land and it's people.  It was widely used in Idol worship to (male prostitutes), enrage God and give glory to the enemy.  It was a "In your face God".  I've studied this out, and every nation that accepted and practiced this in Biblical times incurred the direct disfavor of God, because it was allowed to become acceptable.

Without going into great detail (but I can if you want), as there is so much connected with this lifestyle in the Bible.  I've said it before in another thread and will say it again.  The sexual act is spiritual in nature....God made it to be.  When it gets perverted or negatively applied, it's not just 2 people doing something that doesn't affect anyone else.  It most certainly affects a Nation and it's people over time.

Now....you and I Amy have had a very long convo about this on another thread, with scriptures, etc.  We do not agree....fine.  Because there are people on here that don't believe the Bible or it's teachings, that's where the disagreement comes.  Not because we as Christians are being biased or racist or any other of the above things we've been accused of throughout this whole thread.

[amyrouse]

Whoa Whoa!  I did not direct my post at anyone personally...nor was it directed at anyone on this forum.  It was a generalized statement.  Why is it, then, that my throat is being jumped down? 

It cannot be denied that in the outside world (not this forum) that gays are discriminated against and are hated.  I am not accusing anyone on this forum of any of this.

Annella, why are you bringing racism up with me?  I never mentioned it.  I made a blanket statement about the country's general consensus...not yours or anyone else here.  Please take the time to re-read what I wrote.

I understand perfectly what the topic of this thread is.  I never said "get over it" or "why are you talking about it".  My words were why is this "sin" considered so big when there are other ones and why are people so offended by it.

Annella, you have said many times on this forum not to own something that isn't directed at you personally.  I respectfully would like to remind you of those words and urge you to take your own advice.

[shernajwine]

My words were why is this "sin" considered so big when there are other ones and why are people so offended by it.

I think it's because people don't understand God's love for them. When that happens, they feel guilty constantly about their own sin, and it becomes easier to judge others for their sin than to deal with your own. Hate isn't from God, the people that hate gays because it's a sin...or say that God hates them, don't read the bible.

The bible says, if you hate your brother you have no part with God. As a matter of face it's said that it is considered murder to hate your brother. WOW! If we hate anyone in our hearts, God says it's murder?! Boy do we need grace! No one is exempt from this. Yes GOD HATES SIN, and so should we....but never are we to transpose the sin to the sinner to justify hate.

The people who commit hate crimes for God's cause, are ignorant to the doctrine of the faith they claim to be a part of. These ignorant acts should not be generalized to an entire religion's belief. The bible is VERY clear where God stands about sin and it also VERY clear on where God stands when it comes to showing love to your fellow human beings. 

[queenofnines]

The bible doesn't even address the issue of hermaphrodites so it's hard to distinguish God's position about them.

I thought you said the Bible had all the answers?     Ah, well, I'm sure some slick creationist website can craft an "answer" to this issue.  God and "science", perhaps?

Not that the individual themselves sinned but we are all under the curse of sin and live in imperfect bodies

Thanks god.  Biblical contradiction #9,782: Fathers shall not be put to death for their children, nor children put to death for their fathers; each is to die for his own sin. –Deuteronomy 24:16 and then 

He does not leave the guilty unpunished; he punishes the children and their children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation. – Exodus 34:7