I do NOT believe in god

[Lovely_Deception]

Outside of the bible, God is the unexplained component of science. Take the theory of evolution. Evolution can only go back so far. Once you get down to the atom there is a pausing point. Where did the atom come from? Why does the interaction between molecules exist? What causes it? I am no physicist, but the question remains. What about before? This is where God comes into play. God may be different for many people, but the fact that there is SOMETHING is not arguable.

[klvcaudillo]

Quote from: Lovely_Deception on Today at 12:56:05 pm
Outside of the bible, God is the unexplained component of science. Take the theory of evolution. Evolution can only go back so far. Once you get down to the atom there is a pausing point. Where did the atom come from? Why does the interaction between molecules exist? What causes it? I am no physicist, but the question remains. What about before? This is where God comes into play. God may be different for many people, but the fact that there is SOMETHING is not arguable.

Thank you!!!!!! I totally agree!!! 

[brilohr7]

Thanks for posting your opinion.  I disagree however.  I believe theer is a God and that after life, we go to Heaven.  I am a very strong supporter of this, but I respect your own opinion.

[fancyspirit]

Oh how I would love to be face to face with ya' while debating this subject. I hope I do not come across as dismissing how you beleive. You are so right their are a lot of self-proclaimed christians that hurt the cause for Christ. He was never boastful or hateful. In fact these are some of the traits that He hates. Jesus walked and talked with sinners, saved and unsaved while He was here on earth. He hated the sin but never the sinner. He loves everyone. That is why He carried out His heavenly fathers plan completely. So that all who beleived in Him shall be saved. It was never God's intention that any of us goes to hell. Hell was created for Satan's final place. God gave us free will because He wants our love freely. No more that what any one of us wants from others. Think about it. He made us after His own image. would you want someone that you had to make love you. I know I don't.

[Falconer02]

God may be different for many people, but the fact that there is SOMETHING is not arguable.

First off let me say for the most part I agree with you. This is how I think. But our greatest trait in this argument is also its weakest point-- we do not know what caused these things to happen and therefore cannot say god did it and that there's something out there.

Once you get down to the atom there is a pausing point.

This pausing point is called insufficient information. Life tends to 'want and struggle' to exist so who's to say that it was god or many other complex processes we have yet to discover? The fundamental fact of this is we don't know. People try to pretty it up with old myths or, like in your case, decent positive opinions but in the end we simply aren't there yet to grasp new realities.

God gave us free will because He wants our love freely. No more that what any one of us wants from others. Think about it. He made us after His own image. would you want someone that you had to make love you. I know I don't.

I appreciate how you're actually not pushing it on us like a handful of raging lunatics in this thread. But I have some q's for you-- why do you say loving the christian god is free when it takes the traits of slavery? When you do not love god or disobey him, you are forced into an afterlife of hell and damnation-- this includes loving other gods and not him. And why did he have to create us?

[Falconer02]

If you do not follow rules set forth by man, say you kill, there are consequences. The choice is yours, if that is your choice to not love God or to disobey him then that is the consequence.

On earth, all rules are finite. Rules change constantly to better suit society. There were times where it was alright to kill your wife if she disobeyed the husband, but it was a felony charge for stealing eggs from someones farm-- these were in effect to prevent starvation. I would not compare mans rules to gods rules. I still have yet to understand why anyone would want to worship a god who would punish you infinitely for a finite amount of sin or for not loving him.

[Lovely_Deception]

You are not punished for sin, but for refusing to ask for forgiveness. As a human you will sin, but it's God's gift of simple forgiveness that can redeem us. As for punishment for not loving him, let's think about this. In the Christian religion God is the father of all humans. Because he gives us free will there must be consequences. Agree? In the Bible it states that keeping the ten commandments is how you show you love God. Because of our choices of sin we are saying we don't love God. Simplified version: keeping commandments = love for God.

[Lovely_Deception]

God may be different for many people, but the fact that there is SOMETHING is not arguable.

First off let me say for the most part I agree with you. This is how I think. But our greatest trait in this argument is also its weakest point-- we do not know what caused these things to happen and therefore cannot say god did it and that there's something out there.

Once you get down to the atom there is a pausing point.

This pausing point is called insufficient information. Life tends to 'want and struggle' to exist so who's to say that it was god or many other complex processes we have yet to discover? The fundamental fact of this is we don't know. People try to pretty it up with old myths or, like in your case, decent positive opinions but in the end we simply aren't there yet to grasp new realities.

God gave us free will because He wants our love freely. No more that what any one of us wants from others. Think about it. He made us after His own image. would you want someone that you had to make love you. I know I don't.

I appreciate how you're actually not pushing it on us like a handful of raging lunatics in this thread. But I have some q's for you-- why do you say loving the christian god is free when it takes the traits of slavery? When you do not love god or disobey him, you are forced into an afterlife of hell and damnation-- this includes loving other gods and not him. And why did he have to create us?

For the first two points the answer is faith. That's why it is called faith.

The last bit I have answers. The things you call traits of slavery are just rules. I believe you are using the ten commandments for this. If you actually look at the commandments from a objective standpoint you will find that they mirror that laws successful societies have. The only exceptions are the first three (do not take the Lord's name in vain, keep the sabbath, no other gods). What specifically about this is slavery? As far as not loving him in, the Bible it states that keeping the ten commandments is how you show you love God. Because of our choices of sin we are saying we don't love God.

And why did he create us? Well, I would like to ask him myself.

[klvcaudillo]

God created man because he can.  He can do anything he wants.  Of course, God is all loving so he probably did it out of love.  Everything exists because of Him.  I have complete faith in him.  God many times has put before us (human kind) the choice between life or death.  By disobeying him in any way, we are choosing death, by repenting and trying to be good faithful followers and obeying him we are choosing life.  The rules are plain and simple.  That is why we have free will.  He wants us to make that decision for ourselves.  It's the same principle as a child disobeying his parents.  If you told your son don't write on the wall and he does there will be consequences.  He will get punished.  With God it's black and white.  The best thing about it all is he knows what's in your heart.  He knows the difference between a good person vs a bad.  It is not for us to judge but to try and live our lives knowing we owe and explanation to Him, not each other.

[Falconer02]

With God it's black and white.  The best thing about it all is he knows what's in your heart.  He knows the difference between a good person vs a bad.  It is not for us to judge but to try and live our lives knowing we owe and explanation to Him, not each other.

Oh you've met him? I mean I've known some people that say things are black and white and they are some of the most stubborn and naive people I've ever met. If this is how he thinks, I'd better stick to the bible because he'll obviously never understand anything I explain to him.

For the first two points the answer is faith. That's why it is called faith.

I can respect that.

The things you call traits of slavery are just rules.

Let's define it quick so you can see what I was getting at-
Slavery - involuntary subjection to another or others. Slavery emphasizes the idea of complete ownership and control by a master.
Now Christians like to throw the free will thing around, but the fact that Christians have to obey these rules or they'll be thrown into hell and be punished for eternity makes me believe Christians are slaves to his system through fear (rules going past the 10 commandments too-- Numbers, Dueteronomy).

"The Problem of Hell is a logical problem related to religion. Hell's general portrayal in Christianity is sometimes perceived as inconsistent with the concepts of an omnibenevolent, just, and moral God."

There's plenty of different route you can take this now though-- "Jesus already saved everyone so we're all clean!" or whatever...I'm too tired to type more tonight...

[kisha0411]

I think its interesting the topics that are discussed regarding the existence of God. As humans, I never understood, the fascination with understanding a deity that has been regaled as having a mental capacity that we can not fathom. How can you argue a point about God, when you don't even understand the reason for your own existence. Even if you don't believe in the God of christianity, you still should believe in the consequences of your actions. The bible was meant for instructional use in day to day life. Not to live the life of a saint, but to acknowledge whether a decision you make will have a negative consequence. If you make decisions that are wise, you'll find that most of your lifes undoing was by your own hand. The choice of life or death, is figurative. Choose life, you choice to be wise in your life until your death, choose death, your choosing the life of a fool, until your death.

[JessicaJIrish]

I do not believe in god.  I work with special needs children in several very religious homes, I stay with the child so that they can attend their services, if it was not for me, someone would have to miss the thing that they believe most in.  I think that I am the better person for accepting that others are not secure in their own lives and that they need to believe in something.  I also feel that the bible is the earliest form of science fiction out there. But to each their own and I love my life as it is.  I also love to mess with the Jehovahs when they show up at my door!!!    I generally do not swear, but it is nice to see them start to squirm when they are bombarded with it.....free speech

[Lovely_Deception]

Let's define it quick so you can see what I was getting at-
Slavery - involuntary subjection to another or others. Slavery emphasizes the idea of complete ownership and control by a master.
Now Christians like to throw the free will thing around, but the fact that Christians have to obey these rules or they'll be thrown into hell and be punished for eternity makes me believe Christians are slaves to his system through fear (rules going past the 10 commandments too-- Numbers, Dueteronomy).

According to your own definition, the Bible does not subjugate people to slavery. As far as not following the rules it's the same as laws in society. For example: if you murder someone then by mortal law you will go to jail or possibly the death penalty. You will also be punished by God for breaking his commandments. When you are young and you tell a lie and your parents catch you you are punished. These are all things that are in the Bible. Would you call mortals slaves to the Government? We still have a choice to do wrong, but we will be punished if we do wrong. This is the SAME concept as the Bible.

[ellend1983]

Education has absolutely nothing to do with a person's belief. What I will say is that everyone has their own beliefs whether it is about something trivial or something as large as religion. If a person chooses not to believe in God, that is their choice and even if I believe in God, which I do, that does not give me the right to condemn them in any way. We walk around trying to judge each other and for what, because the Bible clearly says, "thou shalt not judge". My belief as well as many christians in the world is that God has the final say, so trying to Make a person see things our way is not following that belief. Let God have the final say and treat that person with respect in the meantime.

[Lovely_Deception]

Education has absolutely nothing to do with a person's belief. What I will say is that everyone has their own beliefs whether it is about something trivial or something as large as religion. If a person chooses not to believe in God, that is their choice and even if I believe in God, which I do, that does not give me the right to condemn them in any way. We walk around trying to judge each other and for what, because the Bible clearly says, "thou shalt not judge". My belief as well as many christians in the world is that God has the final say, so trying to Make a person see things our way is not following that belief. Let God have the final say and treat that person with respect in the meantime.

I agree to a point. How is trying to make others believe not treating a person with respect. The only time this is not respect is when you try to force it.