I do NOT believe in god

[laceybriglia]

Well Falconer those are some of the questions that made me realize there is a god.
I am not delusional and crazy for believing in a god if you Mr. I know everything is actually agnostic.. This whole time I thought you were atheist. That is how you portrayed yourself.
Anyway, I just do not see how me believing in God and you having doubts about there actually being a god makes you oh so much smarter... At this point I actually have a lot more respect for Queen only because yes she did judge me but she KNOWS what she believes and she thinks my beliefs are nonsense.. and I think hers are... But you don't even know really what you believe... You admit that you think there might be a god (There is absolutely nothing wrong with that.) But don't judge others for believing in something that you you think might be true. Exactly you do not know so why all of this time have I been so ignorant? You agree it's a possibility correct? Then stop acting like I'm crazy. You can clearly tell you are trying to sound "cool" just by reading your response to Queen. You can tell you think it's cool to not believe in a god... Because that's what smart people do, they diss religion right?
You are confused you can say you are not but it is very clear you are.
Maybe one day you will realize God does exist and I hope that you do.

[Falconer02]

Well Falconer those are some of the questions that made me realize there is a god. I am not delusional and crazy for believing in a god if you Mr. I know everything is actually agnostic.

The specific Christian god, right? You kept taking things from creationist sites so that's what I'm led to believe. My belief does not have a label for this being. You obviously didn't read my third link because it answers a majority of your posts questions. Let me post the important parts to save us some time though-

"I didn’t say anything about there being no external influence. But it’s a leap to give that influence a sentience, a personality, and talk about what it thinks and wants and loves and hates, and what it did when...all based on a book written by men, just like a million other books written by men about other such Gods that you don’t believe in."

"If someone doesn’t have enough information about what happened pre big bang, which nobody does, and refuses to come to any conclusions about it, that’s not strange behavior. It’s logical and humble."

I just do not see how me believing in God and you having doubts about there actually being a god makes you oh so much smarter

"I’m saying I don’t have any idea what caused the big bang, and you’re calling that crazy. I say it’s 1000 times as crazy to sit on a speck of dust in a vast universe and tell me that you KNOW not only who created the universe, but also what they think, what they like, don’t like, etc."

You agree it's a possibility correct? Then stop acting like I'm crazy

"So again, my stance is that your answer is not correct, and your answer is ASTOUNDINGLY SPECIFIC and personalized."

"So if someone says I believe that there is a person in Guam right now standing on a couch, touching their nose, holding a newspaper, wearing a yellow shirt, with their shoes untied, who served in Vietnam, and got married on a Friday…If I tell you that I don’t believe that, then do I have a BELIEF? No. A belief, in this context, is an active thing. It’s something you branch out on based on evidence, personal or otherwise. YOU are the one branching out here, not me. I’m simply NOT believing in your claim about this person in Guam. It is YOUR responsibility to show EVERYONE ELSE why YOU believe this person is standing on a couch in Guam doing all these things. Why? Because it’s both HIGHLY SPECIFIC and UNLIKELY."

You can clearly tell you are trying to sound "cool" just by reading your response to Queen. You can tell you think it's cool to not believe in a god... Because that's what smart people do, they diss religion right?

I think it's cool not to believe in religion (due to histories) and personalized deities (due to the reasons above). Like I said, it's easier to side with people that don't cling to dozens and dozens of myths and scream that they actually happened and give ridiculously fallible evidence. That and she's been a lot nicer and understanding in argumenting. She thinks outside the box of these things.

You are confused you can say you are not but it is very clear you are.

I AM confused in a universal sense. Because I CAN be! I can take it. I can embrace it. I don't settle for personalized gods. I assume it's a different type of confusion that you were thinking of.

Maybe one day you will realize God does exist and I hope that you do.

If you can finally step out of your shoes after me writing this entire post, you will know exactly why this sentence is pointless.

[queenofnines]

I put my chips in with disproving the existence of Yahweh just as I could with Zeus or Athena.
No need to worry (I think...). I do not pray to any deity or go to church as I did in the past. I can sniff out bull pretty well as I hope you've seen. My beliefs, (rather than take a stance on defining a god and what he wants or simply knowing there isn't a god) are set in the area where I can't see if either views have any massive irrefutable proof already existing or have yet to be. Of course I would commend atheists with their realistic attitudes for seeing outside the confines of religion as it is filled with errors and that none of them have it right (yet the majority of the world believes they do-- a BIG turn off for me). But at the same time atheists take the stance that they are 100% right as well (if not, quote me).

When it comes to atheism, I can't fold my arms with them at this point in my life. Now this I have a lot of difficulty in explaining, but why do we have this reality? These dimensions we're slaves to? Why did it develop as it did? What was here or around before our universe was a tiny singularity and exploded? What will be after? What's beyond the so-called 'infinity' of it? Are there others? Is there some form of a creator to it all? I'd like to have all of this information right now! I wish we had the ability to go beyond our current barriers to see but we can't. And in both your and my lifetime, I doubt we'll know the exact answers. Maybe we will figure it out one day and you'll be correct, but I can't erase the notion that something we currently do not understand might have been behind it in one way or another. It's a humongous gray area with me, but I just don't rule out the possibility of there being a supreme being somewhere in the mix if not the whole mix. Does this make sense?

I am always kind of puzzled when people can see that the god of the Bible/the god of the Koran/the many gods of Hinduism are *disprovable B.S., and yet they still think that there is some kind of higher consciousness out there.  *By disprovable B.S., I mean because these popular gods are very much defined based on ancient texts and traditions, it's easy to call them out on where they're wrong.

Yes, it is certainly better to believe in god in general rather than subscribe to any conventional religion.  But THERE IS NO EVIDENCE to suggest that the natural processes in which our world was brought about had anything to do with a god.  I'm with the logical crowd in that no one can 100% say there isn't a creator (just as we can't 100% prove that there isn't an invisible pink unicorn who kisses me on the forehead at night), but where does the evidence point??  While god is *a possibility* just like my pink unicorn is *a possibility*, the evidence is very highly AGAINST that being the case to the point that it is acceptable to "round down" the possibility of god to zero.

It is a good thing to be in awe of and have respect for the universe, but just because we can't understand everything does not mean it is fitting to put a "god" label on it.  It blows my mind how things like computers and cars and Wii consoles can come about from a natural world of trees, grass, sun, rocks, and dirt.  But just because I don't understand it doesn't mean there is "magic" or "god" behind how technology works.  I don't typically like the following phrase because people often use it in an annoying context, but: "It is what it is."

How can you not see that people who deny religion but still believe in a "higher power" are inventing a god for themselves, too?  This "higher power" is so undefined compared to Jesus or Allah that it doesn't make sense.  So...you say the universe was created by a creator?  You still have the problem of where the creator came from.  If this "god" is not the god of the Bible or similar, he obviously hasn't made clear what he/she/it's rules are.  Like he/she/it just created us and forgot about us?  If there is a higher power creator, is there an afterlife?  Do we need to do anything to be "worthy" of it?

Do you see how you have the same problems as religion, except now you don't even have the answers?

[Falconer02]

I am always kind of puzzled when people can see that the god of the Bible/the god of the Koran/the many gods of Hinduism are *disprovable B.S., and yet they still think that there is some kind of higher consciousness out there.

Well we just don't rule it out of the undefined equation (yet). That's all. It's just curiosity.

But THERE IS NO EVIDENCE to suggest that the natural processes in which our world was brought about had anything to do with a god.  I'm with the logical crowd in that no one can 100% say there isn't a creator (just as we can't 100% prove that there isn't an invisible pink unicorn who kisses me on the forehead at night), but where does the evidence point??  While god is *a possibility* just like my pink unicorn is *a possibility*, the evidence is very highly AGAINST that being the case to the point that it is acceptable to "round down" the possibility of god to zero.

There isn't any physical evidence. I agree with that. With what we've discovered thus far. And I understand through mankinds history we've disproved the "god did it!" aspect numerous times so obviously history sides with your views. But who's to say we won't eventually discover something out there far into the future beyond the realms of physical law? I believe because we're mortal and confined to this reality that it's easy to see things in black and white, but agnostics tend to sit in a gray area either to speculate, play it safe, or just not care. I'm one to speculate. I would think 'rounding down' would fall within the black or white parameters.

It is a good thing to be in awe of and have respect for the universe, but just because we can't understand everything does not mean it is fitting to put a "god" label on it.  It blows my mind how things like computers and cars and Wii consoles can come about from a natural world of trees, grass, sun, rocks, and dirt.  But just because I don't understand it doesn't mean there is "magic" or "god" behind how technology works.  I don't typically like the following phrase because people often use it in an annoying context, but: "It is what it is."

Well your example seems confining because you confine it to earthly things. You can understand how all those things work because we've already defined how they work. You can't put the god-label on them. We have yet to discover perhaps an infinite amount of things in/around/out of our universe so those things are undefined. We have yet "to boldly go where no man has gone before". I just don't rule out there being a creator being one of them. An undefined creator that may or may not have played a role in this universe.

How can you not see that people who deny religion but still believe in a "higher power" are inventing a god for themselves, too?  This "higher power" is so undefined compared to Jesus or Allah that it doesn't make sense.

I found this once online...maybe it will make some sense out of this--

"I'm neither arrogant enough to believe there is nothing out there that may be beyond my ability to comprehend that works against or even manipulates physical law
-OR-
am I self-centered enough to think that if one being did create everything in the entire universe ever, he'd giving a flying f**k what I do on Sundays."

So...you say the universe was created by a creator?  You still have the problem of where the creator came from.  If this "god" is not the god of the Bible or similar, he obviously hasn't made clear what he/she/it's rules are.  Like he/she/it just created us and forgot about us?  If there is a higher power creator, is there an afterlife?  Do we need to do anything to be "worthy" of it?

By saying this I think you believe I have the same mindset as a Christian/Muslim/Hindu. Why? I'm not. I can't answer these questions. I can speculate on what I think happens, but that's no good if we're going for 100% truth. That's why I'm agnostic.

[laceybriglia]

Falconer,
I did read your link. It still doesn't answer ANY of my questions.
It just goes on and on about how ridiculous it is to believe in a Christian god (basically.)
Which puzzles me only because you yourself say there is a possibility there is a god...
Well what if that god is the Christian God?
Exactly you have no idea so please stop calling me delusional.

[queenofnines]

By saying this I think you believe I have the same mindset as a Christian/Muslim/Hindu. Why? I'm not. I can't answer these questions. I can speculate on what I think happens, but that's no good if we're going for 100% truth. That's why I'm agnostic.

Nah, I wasn't accusing you of having a religious mindset, but those questions I supplied do bring up some very good points.  Mainly, how does it really affect your life to believe that a creator made the universe, if you have no way of knowing what impact that "truth" could have?  Are you not still going to live your life and then die in pretty much the same way when faced with the options that either (a) an intelligence "maybe" created the universe, but it cannot be proven or (b) observable natural processes that we can't fully understand did it?

The only purpose to keeping god a possibility is to make one feel better/make "sense" of things.  That as long as you believe in SOMETHING, perhaps you will live forever, etc.  You just don't "know".

[Falconer02]

I did read your link. It still doesn't answer ANY of my questions.

Both the article and myself have answered your questions.

Well what if that god is the Christian God?

You may be correct. You also may be correct about 'a person in Guam right now standing on a couch, touching their nose, holding a newspaper, wearing a yellow shirt, with their shoes untied, who served in Vietnam, and got married on a Friday'. The problem is the claims of Christianity are so precise, so specific, and so personalized on who god is, what he wants, what he knows, etc. that it sounds absolutely ridiculous and highly unlikely. And how you've shown that you are constantly resistant to any reasoning besides your own ("you guys speaking against Christianity have only strengthened my faith!") is the very definition of a delusional mindset. My belief is nothing more than "There might be a god out there but I do not know." so do not put me in the same boat as you. It is not resistant. It is always open for discussion and is susceptable to progressive reasoning. That is all.

QUEEN-- I wrote out a big thing for you but I accidentally hit my back button and lost it. I'll answer your q's later. It's a nice day out.

[laceybriglia]

You may be correct. You also may be correct about 'a person in Guam right now standing on a couch, touching their nose, holding a newspaper, wearing a yellow shirt, with their shoes untied, who served in Vietnam, and got married on a Friday'. The problem is the claims of Christianity are so precise, so specific, and so personalized on who god is, what he wants, what he knows, etc. that it sounds absolutely ridiculous and highly unlikely. And how you've shown that you are constantly resistant to any reasoning besides your own ("you guys speaking against Christianity have only strengthened my faith!") is the very definition of a delusional mindset. My belief is nothing more than "There might be a god out there but I do not know." so do not put me in the same boat as you. It is not resistant. It is always open for discussion and is susceptable to progressive reasoning. That is all.

That's just ridiculous to compare. The bible is reasoning to why someone would believe in a christian God. We don't come up with it out of no where like you/the website is stating with the person from Guam. You are acting as if Christians are just randomly making stuff up. No.
Please explain how me stating that you have strengthened my faith is delusional?
You're just making crap up. And if you think that God is a possibility to how/why we are here then just stop... If you don't think you know how this world got here and sgree that anything is a possibility then you shouldn't judge anyone. Seriously.

[Falconer02]

We don't come up with it out of no where like you. You are acting as if Christians are just randomly making stuff up.

I didn't invent agnosticism. I'm not accusing you of making this stuff up either. I'm accusing gullible people from long ago. You're just following what was made up. I guess Christians tend to make stuff up too-- how many sects of Christianity are there? How many errors? Rewrites?

Btw, no offense, but you can't seem to get any of the context down correctlly in your last few posts.

Please explain how me stating that you have strengthened my faith is delusional?

de·lu·sion - Psychiatry. a fixed false belief that is resistant to reason or confrontation with actual fact
The fact in this matter is you can't accept that you might be wrong. But when someone states that you may be, it only strengthens that single belief rather than broaden it to different views? How convenient a way to fend off opposing pov's. It's like you believing everyone is secretly a penguin. I argue that we're not penguins as it's wayyyy too much of a stretch on reality (thus the man in Guam example), but that only strengthens your belief that we're all penguins.

You're just making crap up.

Thanks for proving my point.

If you don't think you know how this world got here and sgree that anything is a possibility then you shouldn't judge anyone. Seriously

There's a major difference in the size of the two things you've stated. Metaphorically I believe there is a man in Guam but I'm not certain to how or what he's doing. I'm willing to retract my statement as well if anyone wants to go to Guam and disprove me. You believe there's a man in Guam who is doing all of those things right now specifically that I listed. That one is the creationist belief which seems far too much of a stretch on how things went down (ex- rib woman, talking snake, genocidal god). Which seems more plausable? I only seem to judge when people believe in silly myths and will fight to the death for them. When they bury the variable that they may be incorrect.

[Falconer02]

Nah, I wasn't accusing you of having a religious mindset, but those questions I supplied do bring up some very good points.  Mainly, how does it really affect your life to believe that a creator made the universe, if you have no way of knowing what impact that "truth" could have?  Are you not still going to live your life and then die in pretty much the same way when faced with the options that either (a) an intelligence "maybe" created the universe, but it cannot be proven or (b) observable natural processes that we can't fully understand did it?

The only purpose to keeping god a possibility is to make one feel better/make "sense" of things.  That as long as you believe in SOMETHING, perhaps you will live forever, etc.  You just don't "know".

Thank you. And yes, they do bring up good points. As far as how it affects my life, I only think this because I believe there might be something out there that is not restricted to what we are restricted to (dimensional space, time). That it has the power to move through and above where we're at. If we could find this creator (or what I refer to as a creator) and learn from it, perhaps we can then finally have those answers. We may even discover these answers not finding a creator behind it, which I really have no problem with (EDIT: This is why many people put agnostics in the same category as atheists). I just can't throw that variable out of the bag yet. Even though it's highly speculative, it does make me feel good to wonder about it. Defining everything from where we're at (like religion does) destroys that aspect of it since it's so ludicrous. Atheism just seems to chop it off quick. That's why I find myself in the gray area.

[teflonfanatic]

For the record, I'm not DF'd. My parents were wise enough to keep the dunk tank away from me, so no worries about talking to me!
I've learned that many claims in the bible are false and simply are tales. I've read quite a bit of it through my life to know that I will not follow it due to the lack of evidence of the supernatural events among many other things listed throughout this thread. I do not accept some of Christs standards simply because I do not want to be labelled as naive (nor a hippy) to how things really are in the world. I will not substitute things requiring logic merely on faith as I choose not to be blind to the world around me. What you probably see from that statement-- that my eyes are closed to satan! and covered from our savior!-- mean absolutely nothing to me. I'm being realistic. I am out of those delusional shackles and will never step back in it. I'm free.

Reading the creation and mankinds search for god books will help you see the logic in it I promise. Please read those publications it has LOGIC.

Don't watch me scratch myself. It's creepy!

When I said last time I checked I meant last time someone scratched themselves according to science they scratched off dirt!

Unlike a lot of tales in the bible, the ones in school weren't full of magic and animal representations. Those ones were saved for Myth and Legends class.

Fine if you don't like the fact that the bible uses "magic" then think of God using nature to do miraculous things. You really should watch Exodus Decoded, tha's not made by the society btw. As for animal representations, I guess you think the term "sheep" is vague.

Then you're simply taking advantage of the hard-won freedoms in our country from our founding fathers and then bashing them. I would label this under hypocracy. Just remember this- if it weren't for our Founding Fathers, you would not have the religion you believe in today.

I'm not denying what they did for the "united states" i'm just pointing out that they choose the world over christ.  As for the religion I have today trust me it would have come babylon he great's errors would have been made known and so will god's name. With or without America. Interestingly enough the protestants literature and bibles are owned by the U.S.!!!! I don't know about other places but it's owned by the U.S> in the states!!!! Not much separation from church and state there.  The JW's also won some hard-earned freedoms as well however they did so WITHOUT FIGHTING!!!

My dad did the right thing. And if you're telling me since he went down to help people other than JW's, you clearly have some very scary close-minded moral issues that portray significant problems in the mindset of religion. We're ALL family on this earth despite petty beliefs which put us in little cliques.


Your right about everyone being the same family but if I had to choose between helping someone of my immediate family or helping someone who wasn't't my immediate family I'll help someone who was my immediate family.  There's plenty of examples in the bible where God helped his people first and then helped others such as when God helping rahab after he helped his own pople, then Rahab was able to join the israelites and she had her life changed evenbeing apart of the lineage of Jesus!!!!  Spiritually speaking the JW's believe they are Israel, and by spiritually speaking that means that they are not part of the original hebrews but apart oftrue followers of God all over the earth.

You're comparing celebrating holidays and playing soccer to meth addicts and emos. The example does not work. Again, they're fun and they're okay.

It doesn't change the fact that like 5 to 7 sins get committed on those days or even at the same time and that the hallmarks of babylon the great are venerated, it's clear that the holidays are revelries that promote covetousness, jealously, greed and materialism. More importantly, why only one day for giving people things, why only one day to express love for your spouse or GF etc.  I'm sure that people think egging people's houses is fun, or dressing up as the devil is fun. Bottomline holdays have roots in spirtism, and veneration of a human figure, doesn't matter if it seems fun, such reasoning would conclude that ouija boards and tarot card reading is fun.

A lot of people that began going seemed pestered into it at our congregation. The head of the household was usually asked at a barbeque, restaurant, 2nd room in the church, etc. about how they were liking it and that they should really come more often and study more. Even my parents went out in service and would return to peoples doors every weekend to follow up even if they seemed uninterested. The mormons do the exact same thing. It just seems soulless-- if people are interested and want to go, they'll go without someone asking them constantly.

I think your confusing persistence with pestering. As for the mormoms the only do it for one year and stop.


A major reason my mother left was from the lack of being touched emotionally by it. As you've demonstrated with the dozens upon dozens the biblical references, JW's pov of the bible seems more school/research oriented in the study of the bible rather than feeling-based. In essence, you're going to a school to take classes rather than going to a church and feeling spiritually rejuvinated. I can say this is both good and bad for it but I'm way too tired to elaborate right now. Maybe later.

Try not to take it the wrong way but it's your mother's fault for deciding to be baptized if she didn't feel emoionally attached.  As for the school appoarch it's free, easy to understand and organized, i think the apostles might have thought people about God through illustrations to gatherings of people 0_0. Either way how else can you teach people how to preach the good news of the kingdom without t. Anyway the school system is to help people gain "accurate knowledge" of the bible and as the person applies the principals in his/her life they will come to have an emotional attachment to God.

[Falconer02]

Reading the creation and mankinds search for god books will help you see the logic in it I promise. Please read those publications it has LOGIC.

You promise? I read many of those books. And yet I'm not a JW anymore.

Fine if you don't like the fact that the bible uses "magic" then think of God using nature to do miraculous things. You really should watch Exodus Decoded, tha's not made by the society btw. As for animal representations, I guess you think the term "sheep" is vague.

Non-biblical proof, plz. None of your books tied to the NWT. I want physical evidence (other than that book written by men) that he had a hand in these miracles performed in your text from other sources other than your own. You must thwart every other belief system in doing this proving to me this magic happened within the confines of your beliefs. Atheism included here. Also, if it's not made by the society, you shouldn't be watching it  . It's worldly. Unless of course it aligned perfectly with your beliefs (of course then it's okay, right?).

As for animal representation, sheep is not vague. Just as referring to someone as 'yo dawg' is not vague. But using animal representation to determine what will happen in the future is exponentially more vague than Nostradamas' works.

Do me a small favor...take a breather from the shell for an hour and watch Religulous. It's pretty funny. It's free and can be seen online.

I'm not denying what they did for the "united states" i'm just pointing out that they choose the world over christ.  As for the religion I have today trust me it would have come babylon he great's errors would have been made known and so will god's name. With or without America. Interestingly enough the protestants literature and bibles are owned by the U.S.!!!! I don't know about other places but it's owned by the U.S> in the states!!!! Not much separation from church and state there.  The JW's also won some hard-earned freedoms as well however they did so WITHOUT FIGHTING!!!

What they did for the US effected your freedom of beliefs. You now have the freedom to worship christ any way you want because they fought hard and won your freedom to do so. And you simply acknowledge them as "not following Christ". You've also pulled the "It would have happened anyway" card thus using a cop-out and ruining your argument.

Your right about everyone being the same family but if I had to choose between helping someone of my immediate family or helping someone who wasn't't my immediate family I'll help someone who was my immediate family.

Your JW buddies aren't your immediate family. Even if you refer to them as brothers and sisters, they are not your immediate family. If he went down there to either help people of or not of his church, he would still be helping strangers despite their labels. The problem here is he helped and he got ridiculed for it. You keep trying to compromise this and you're only making yourself and your church look closed-off by stretching the basic story.

It doesn't change the fact that like 5 to 7 sins get committed on those days or even at the same time and that the hallmarks of babylon the great are venerated, it's clear that the holidays are revelries that promote covetousness, jealously, greed and materialism.

Again, using this same logic, you shouldn't play soccer for the same reasons because of what happened in the past. If you don't like watching jealousy, greed, or materialism, you should never watch tv, read magazines, books, or go buy things. Hell, you shouldn't even be living in this country! I'm sure if you reflect on yourself that you are being hypocritical in some way here. No offense-- I know I was being the same.

More importantly, why only one day for giving people things, why only one day to express love for your spouse or GF etc.

Reminders and debt. People not of your church still show appreciation for their loved ones not on these days.

I'm sure that people think egging people's houses is fun, or dressing up as the devil is fun. Bottomline holdays have roots in spirtism, and veneration of a human figure, doesn't matter if it seems fun, such reasoning would conclude that ouija boards and tarot card reading is fun

Ouija boards and Tarot cards do not equal dressing up as the Incredible Hulk. Dressing up as a devil is on par with dressing up as Hades or even Ganondorf. They're all mythological characters. Dressing up to egging peoples houses? Why do you keep connecting things that don't connect at all? People egg houses/do vandalism throughout the year. Some have a massive history to these days...others are simple highschool prank days before a game or something.

I check my horoscope doing the Daily thing here on FC and I always get a kick on how it tells me to go for something I would just not even think about doing-- many times to help someone not on my mind. But it's based in THE STARS so it's WORLDLY and therefore BAD!

I think your confusing persistence with pestering

Persistence to you. Pestering to them.

Try not to take it the wrong way but it's your mother's fault for deciding to be baptized if she didn't feel emoionally attached.  As for the school appoarch it's free, easy to understand and organized, i think the apostles might have thought people about God through illustrations to gatherings of people 0_0. Either way how else can you teach people how to preach the good news of the kingdom without t. Anyway the school system is to help people gain "accurate knowledge" of the bible and as the person applies the principals in his/her life they will come to have an emotional attachment to God.

She was a JW for over 23 years. Same with my dad. Myself growing up I can tell you they were very emotionally attached.

I actually wanted to get her full story on it because I couldn't remember it well. I just called her out of curiosity. She told me that she slowly found that they were simply going by the book in the pursuit of learning. They closed the idea of bringing up your own spin on things when going door-to-door. The people would brag about how their kids were going to Bethel and pioneering whereas with my brother and I joining after-school things like track or band and eventually going off to school and getting our bachelors...she was frowned upon it because "we were going with the world". When her father died, she found that going actually upset her more than helping since she found herself practically sitting in a classroom raising her hand and reading from the book infront of her. I guess she slowly found that they valued principle over emotion as you've stated. I'm convinced it does not work for everyone.

[tzs]

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_______?Sexy?Sexy?Sexy?Se
_______?Sexy?Sexy?Sexy?Sexy?
_______?Sexy?Sexy?Sexy?Sexy?Sexy
_______?Sexy?Sexy?Sexy?Sexy?Sexy?S
________?Sexy?Sexy____?Sexy?Sexy?se
_________?Sexy?Se_______?Sexy?Sexy?
_________?Sexy?Se_____?Sexy?Sexy?
_________?Sexy?S____?Sexy?Sexy
_________?Sexy?S_?Sexy?Sexy
________?Sexy?Sexy?Sexy
________?Sexy?Sexy?S
________?Sexy?Sexy
_______?Sexy?Se
_______?Sexy?
______?Sexy?
______?Sexy?
______?Sexy?
______?Sexy
______?Sexy
_______?Sex
_______?Sex
_______?Sex
______?Sexy
______?Sexy
_______Sexy
_______ Sexy?
________Sexy?

How old are you really?

[teflonfanatic]

Exodus decoded has many scientific, and archaeology proof.

 Also, if it's not made by the society, you shouldn't be watching it  Shocked. It's worldly. Unless of course it aligned perfectly with your beliefs (of course then it's okay, right?). 

I watch cash cab, wheel of fortune, jeopardy, the history channel, and many other shows and programs, watching something that's overly violent or immortal too much can influence bad thoughts and actions however, some scientific studies showed this 0_0.

As for animal representation, sheep is not vague. Just as referring to someone as 'yo dawg' is not vague. But using animal representation to determine what will happen in the future is exponentially more vague  than Nostradamas' works.

Oh, I see, the term sheep is ok because it doesn't tell the future "supposedly" but daniel like prophecies regrading animals is vague even though it clearly tells you in the bible that the animals represent political powers ok!!!

What they did for the US effected your freedom of beliefs. You now have the freedom to worship christ any way you want because they fought hard and won your freedom to do so. And you simply acknowledge them as "not following Christ". You've also pulled the "It would have happened anyway" card thus using a cop-out and ruining your argument.

Oh wow, you can do that in other countries as well, "as for fought hard for my beliefs" they didn't fight that hard they just broke-off from Britain and killed off most of the native americans. Definitely not following Christ.



Your JW buddies aren't your immediate family. Even if you refer to them as brothers and sisters, they are not your immediate family. If he went down there to either help people of or not of his church, he would still be helping strangers despite their labels. The problem here is he helped and he got ridiculed for it. You keep trying to compromise this and you're only making yourself and your church look closed-off by stretching the basic story.

I like being closed-off actually instead of being apart of the world. As for them being my immediate family spiritually speaking they are, where as people who are in spiritual "sodom" aren't I see that you skipped my bible references, your starting to rely on your own understanding instead of what god's word says just like Satan. You know what it says but your deliberately not applying it to your life because you want to direct your own step.

If you don't like watching jealousy, greed, or materialism, you should never watch tv, read magazines, books, or go buy things. Hell, you shouldn't even be living in this country! I'm sure if you reflect on yourself that you are being hypocritical in some way here. No offense-- I know I was being the same.

Wrong, that's like saying that Jesus and his apostles should not have stayed in the country they lived in. Watching however is not the same as participating in it. You are right on one thing however since this is Satan's world almost everything is against god's morals, doesn't mean you can't try to regulate your entertainment or what you
choose to like or do.

Reminders and debt. People not of your church still show appreciation for their loved ones not on these days.

True but what day do they show the most appreciation for an individual or yeah that's right Holidays!! It should be year-round and not one day.

Ouija boards and Tarot cards do not equal dressing up as the Incredible Hulk. Dressing up as a devil is on par with dressing up as Hades or even Ganondorf. They're all mythological characters. Dressing up to egging peoples houses? Why do you keep connecting things that don't connect at all? People egg houses/do vandalism throughout the year. Some have a massive history to these days...others are simple highschool prank days before a game or something.

I check my horoscope doing the Daily thing here on FC and I always get a kick on how it tells me to go for something I would just not even think about doing-- many times to help someone not on my mind. But it's based in THE STARS so it's WORLDLY and therefore BAD!

Spiritually speaking they are all the same thing and some people think tarot cards and ouija boards is fun so it connects. All hallows eve is the practice of putting sweet food out for evil spirits and then threatening a mischievous trick if they don't give them candy.  If you think that Satan is mythological that's proof right there that you either doubt the Christ or think he is a liar. The night before all hallows eve some people participate in mischief night and they mess up people's houses at night.

People egg houses/do vandalism throughout the year. Some have a massive history to these days...others are simple highschool prank days before a game or something.

Doesn't make it good, or ok but since your spiritually dead you don't care.

But it's based in THE STARS so it's WORLDLY and therefore BAD!

Wrong it's based off of astrology which is the predicting the future by studying nature. IT'S A FORM OF FORTUNE-TELLING BAD!!!!!!!!!

Quote
I think your confusing persistence with pestering

Persistence to you. Pestering to them.

Agreed . In this world with so many spiritually dead people that's to be expected, it's becoming more and more like Noah's day.

She was a JW for over 23 years. Same with my dad. Myself growing up I can tell you they were very emotionally attached.

I actually wanted to get her full story on it because I couldn't remember it well. I just called her out of curiosity. She told me that she slowly found that they were simply going by the book in the pursuit of learning. They closed the idea of bringing up your own spin on things when going door-to-door. The people would brag about how their kids were going to Bethel and pioneering whereas with my brother and I joining after-school things like track or band and eventually going off to school and getting our bachelors...she was frowned upon it because "we were going with the world". When her father died, she found that going actually upset her more than helping since she found herself practically sitting in a classroom raising her hand and reading from the book infront of her. I guess she slowly found that they valued principle over emotion as you've stated. I'm convinced it does not work for everyone.

Let me ask you one question do you believe anything the bible says cause if not there's not point in debating you anymore. I'm sorry to hear that after her father died she stopped applying the bible's principles to her life it's clear that the "sitting in the classroom card" is what she used to express she didn't want to learn about God anymore, as for you getting an education it wasn't because you were getting an education, a brother in my KH is studying to be an architect, it was because you were putting all your focus on it and you completely left spiritual goals.

Well, if your still "with the world" which i'm pretty sure you are I hope you don't end up like Notorious B.I.G or Michael both of whom used to study with the JW's and got killed in this world. Christopher even stated and I quote "more money more problems"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


 

[Falconer02]

I watch cash cab, wheel of fortune, jeopardy, the history channel, and many other shows and programs, watching something that's overly violent or immortal too much can influence bad thoughts and actions however, some scientific studies showed this 0_0.

So what? "Quite frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn." I did a 10-paged paper on this one quote back in college emphasizing the pros and cons of abstinence and conservatism in media. Granted there's some behavioral distortions in unstable people, you'd be surprised at how much these questionable things have influenced and revolutionized creativity for the better in our culture. Just remember-- violence is nothing new to us.

daniel like prophecies regrading animals is vague even though it clearly tells you in the bible that the animals represent political powers ok!!!

The tiger is fighting the bull-herder here.

Oh wow, you can do that in other countries as well, "as for fought hard for my beliefs" they didn't fight that hard they just broke-off from Britain and killed off most of the native americans. Definitely not following Christ.

Egoism. You've deliberatly jumped off the train here and introduced something not having anything to do with what I was refering to. I am refering to the Revolution. Not Manifest Destiny. You also take the notion that breaking apart from Great Britain was easy. It wasn't. Those people died so you can have the freedom to bash them because 'they weren't with Jesus but they allowed for my beliefs'. Those people in WW2 died for you to enjoy your freedoms too. You can pull the "they weren't following jesus!" card all you want, but you are making yourself look more ignorant each time.  

I like being closed-off actually instead of being apart of the world.

I'd honestly say your JW-advertisement from earlier just lost any chance of getting a bite.

your starting to rely on your own understanding instead of what god's word says just like Satan. You know what it says but your deliberately not applying it to your life because you want to direct your own step.

How convenient-- anyone who does not agree with you is with Satan! This is nothing more than a simple ineffective and irrational curse. I don't align myself with Yahweh or Satan because they're fictional characters created by men from long ago. Just like Nephilim to Ra to Zeus. Breaking off from that mindset was the most philosophically correct and enlightening thing I've ever done in my life. The fact that you see me as going with Satan seems to prove my point in my reasoning here.

Wrong, that's like saying that Jesus and his apostles should not have stayed in the country they lived in. Watching however is not the same as participating in it. You are right on one thing however since this is Satan's world almost everything is against god's morals, doesn't mean you can't try to regulate your entertainment or what you choose to like or do.

I honestly prefer this current "satan-world" over the genocidal child-killing jealous immature war-causing god you worship in your church. Satans church has some pretty damn good up-to-date morals itself, you know. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_Satan

Spiritually speaking they are all the same thing and some people think tarot cards and ouija boards is fun so it connects. All hallows eve is the practice of putting sweet food out for evil spirits and then threatening a mischievous trick if they don't give them candy.  If you think that Satan is mythological that's proof right there that you either doubt the Christ or think he is a liar. The night before all hallows eve some people participate in mischief night and they mess up people's houses at night.

So what? And I'm not calling Christ a liar. I'm calling him a hippy  . I'd call the writers of his story liars, gullibles, and exhaggeraters.

Doesn't make it good, or ok but since your spiritually dead you don't care.

I honestly don't care simply because it's kids having some fun and being stupid. All kids need some of that in there lives. Too bad I didn't get much due to you-know-what.

Wrong it's based off of astrology which is the predicting the future by studying nature. IT'S A FORM OF FORTUNE-TELLING BAD!

Technically the bible does this too though. And, like I stated earlier, my astrological horoscope has honestly helped me focus on good and real things. I don't believe the whole spiritism behind it is true though. I'm just saying since it's doing me and others good by focusing on helping others, who cares about the fortune telling thing. They're just positive words that aren't creating wars and atrocious arguments.

Agreed . In this world with so many spiritually dead people that's to be expected, it's becoming more and more like Noah's day.

They're just opening up to reality of things. Saying this is just another cop-out to keep them in the confines I keep blabbering about. You could say "It's becoming more like the days before Alderaans destruction when the dark side prevailed" and be just as effective here.

Let me ask you one question do you believe anything the bible says cause if not there's not point in debating you anymore.

I believe in some of the moral codes. I believe Jesus was a unique individual for his time. I think the myths are pretty cool and weird-moral stories. That's about it though.

is what she used to express she didn't want to learn about God anymore

She didn't want to learn about god the way the JW's do it because it became soulless to her (and many who left). She's still extremely spiritual almost to the point where it annoys the hell out of me.

, as for you getting an education it wasn't because you were getting an education, a brother in my KH is studying to be an architect, it was because you were putting all your focus on it and you completely left spiritual goals.

You have no idea how thankful I am for them doing this. I really didn't enjoy growing up as a JW. And it's very strange that anyone who did ended up screwing up royally and didn't go much anywhere (I'm not making this up for JW's to look bad-- this is 100% truth). The only thing I liked were the ones who had the same mindset I did. And they all left and surprisingly we're all still great friends.

Well, if your still "with the world" which i'm pretty sure you are I hope you don't end up like Notorious B.I.G or Michael both of whom used to study with the JW's and got killed in this world. Christopher even stated and I quote "more money more problems"!

Hey, people die. Sh*t happens. I'm furthest from being a gangster though. I like being 'worldly'. It's usually a very nice and broad horizon.