Proof that God exists

[Rastov]

ur not that poor...u obviously got a computer and the internet. and god wouldn't kill a child..so he had nothing to do with a miscarriage.

Tell that to the Egyptians

[liljp617]

ur not that poor...u obviously got a computer and the internet. and god wouldn't kill a child..so he had nothing to do with a miscarriage.

Let's be honest:  He has a death toll of at least seven figures.  He killed a million in the swipe of a hand (Chronicles I believe).

[MorbidRaccoon]

Nobody can know God unless God teaches him.

Watch your thoughts; they become words. Watch your words; they become actions. Watch your actions; they become habits. Watch your habits; they become character. Watch your character; it becomes your destiny.

I expect to pass through life but once. If therefore there be any kindness I can show, or any good thing I can do to any fellow being, let me do it now, and not defer or negkect it, as I shall not pass this way again.

I do the very best I know how - the very best I can; and I mean to keep doing so until the end.

Do not forget to entertain strangers, for by so doing some have unwittingly entertained angels.

Even if you're on the right track you'll get run over if you just sit there.

She opens her mouth with wisdom, and on her tounge is the law of kindness.

and most of all I absolutely DESPISE how you think that just because someone is willing to be an atheist they can somehow no longer be good people at that point who don't neglect others? Just because someone decided to be an atheist it doesn't makes them evil, only think headed, therefore you would be wrong on this whole prospect you are making of ' if you are an atheists you must not be trying to be a good person, you just want to have fun and not believe in god'. But some people are an atheist because it plain just doesn't make sense to them, they have no faith even if they try, yet they still also have the drive to be good people too you know? They don't just turn it off because there might not be some higher being, we're still good  creatures you know? You don't need a god in order to be a good person. Especially since by your theory, god made everyone, so if he made certain people entirely unwilling to believe in god then it couldn't possibly be wrong if he created them to be like that, right?

[MorbidRaccoon]

Yes, the devil. 

[InKane]

If that's the case, the devil makes the better argument.  

The devil sent out his soldiers to attack children, and the mentally challenged! They will corrupt the believer's souls with logic and rational thought!

[liljp617]

RAWR  SATAN

It took a long time to get here, but it was inevitable:  Atheists worship Satan and are his minions haha love it



The large majority of atheists believe in satan about as much as they believe in god(s).  


If I had lots of rational people telling me I'm delusional and don't make sense when I speak, I would probably start to consider the option that they're perhaps correct..

[AmyTrivitt]

RAWR  SATAN

It took a long time to get here, but it was inevitable:  Atheists worship Satan and are his minions haha love it



The large majority of atheists believe in satan about as much as they believe in god(s).  


If I had lots of rational people telling me I'm delusional and don't make sense when I speak, I would probably start to consider the option that they're perhaps correct..

What? Atheists= unbelief!! Satanism= believe in Satan AS WELL as ALL Christians. How do you come to the terms that Atheists are devil worshipers? Hm mm since Christians believe in Satan should we call them devil worshipers? I think not. You cannot force what religion you THINK people are upon them. O wait most on here already are!!!

[eSineM]

Well from my experience as an Ex jehovahwitness Ive learned christians belive that Satan's demons will possess your body and make you really smart..at the same time deceiving you into thinking he really doesn't exist  so Satan doesnt want anyone to think he exists hehe  It reads in the bible something like "devil appears as an angel of light" ...make what ya want of that

[maagen8134]

not sure what you mean

[liljp617]

RAWR  SATAN

It took a long time to get here, but it was inevitable:  Atheists worship Satan and are his minions haha love it



The large majority of atheists believe in satan about as much as they believe in god(s).  


If I had lots of rational people telling me I'm delusional and don't make sense when I speak, I would probably start to consider the option that they're perhaps correct..

What? Atheists= unbelief!! Satanism= believe in Satan AS WELL as ALL Christians. How do you come to the terms that Atheists are devil worshipers? Hm mm since Christians believe in Satan should we call them devil worshipers? I think not. You cannot force what religion you THINK people are upon them. O wait most on here already are!!!

It was sarcasm.  Surely you know I'm not religious by looking at any of my posts

[liljp617]

Again, you missed the point.

I'm willing to guarantee you didn't make one for me to miss.

Do you Non Believers treat everyone that has what you consider ignorance or the idiot syndrome this way or is it just people that believe in God.

No, only people who are willfully and voluntarily ignorant shall get treated as so. 

If someone tells me they believe Elvis Presley is still alive, I will kindly ask them for their logical reasoning or physical proof of this.  When they attempt to show me this, they will come up completely empty handed (Elvis is dead, plain fact).  If they continue to strongly maintain the conclusion that Elvis is alive, I will treat them as they deserve to be treated -- willfully ignorant.  Perhaps I will treat them as an idiot if they ramble on incoherently about silly details that have no relation to the subject.

Do you go around saying to Retarded or Slow or Down Syndrome People they are dumb and stupid and make no sense and retarded?

No, these people are not willfully or voluntarily ignorant.  They have mental limits that prevent them from reaching a certain level of understanding in many cases.  This isn't something they can help, it's a physical quirk in their genetics/development that can't be held against them.

Do you harrass the elderly who move and think slowly?

No, again those people are not willfully ignorant in most cases.  They often have mental deterioration which causes them to think slowly and their slow movement is nothing more than a product of worn muscles/bones.  Now if they're elderly with full mental health and they choose to ignore blatant facts that are put in their face and choose to maintain an obviously silly and/or wrong conclusion on any subject, I will treat them as they deserve.

If you do you are just mean, but I don't think you do and I think you only attack people that believe in God.

I rarely attack people personally.  I attack what they say.  Two completely different things.  And I will continue to attack what a person says when they make constant extraordinary claims without extraordinary evidence.

I never said you worship the Devil.

No, I guess you just blatantly implied it haha

If you refuse to have God in your life then you leave yourself open for attack and the Devil will have you attack his children.

The devil probably doesn't exist.  It's pretty unlikely.

If we believers are so ignorant why do you come in this topic? You just love to bring all this hate in here and try to upset everyone.

Because it's an interesting topic, a topic that effects each and every person on a daily basis, at least in the US.  It's more interesting when both sides are capable of having a coherent conversation without taking everything personally, but I'll take what I can get. 

If you're upset by someone cutting down your posts or beliefs, that's your problem.  If you're upset that everyone doesn't fall down on their knees and agree with you, that's your problem.  If you want to be a part of this conversation, it's guaranteed that your beliefs are going to be questioned and scrutinized.  If you can't handle it, don't take part.  If you wish to take part, grow some thicker skin and get educated in your subject (and the opposition's subject) so that you can adequately defend your positions.

You all bad on the internet but I bet you wouldn't say this crap to someone in person because they would knock you out.

Actually quite a few people are very willing to have conversations on this subject in the real world.  They're usually intelligent, educated people who can string a coherent argument together.  I've had numerous discussions with people on the subject without anybody running away crying cause they got their little feelings hurt.

[lekeishagipson]

I have proof that God exists because without him there would be no nature, and faith in certain people, and without him we couldn't walk, talk, and we couldn't breathe, so that's how I know that there is a god. God is good without him there is nothing.

[liljp617]

I have proof that God exists because without him there would be no nature, and faith in certain people, and without him we couldn't walk, talk, and we couldn't breathe, so that's how I know that there is a god. God is good without him there is nothing.

Baseless, millennium-old rhetoric is not proof.  Never has been, never will be.

[mcucullu]

Proving God exists is like proving human emotions exist.  You can't do it from an outside source.

Say a person had never felt love, or fear.  Any explanation of these concepts to this person would probably get a good laugh.  Telling this person your own experiences with these emotions would probably bring a few insults regarding your intelligence.  Until they actually feel it for themselves, anything you say is going to be nonsense to them.

As an agnostic, I'm able to at least say "You know what, I don't know." after considering evidence from both sides.  Yes, there is a lack of empirical scientific evidence proving the existence of God, but there's no surprise there considering science deals in the physical (natural) world and the concept of God pretty much always places him in the realm of the spiritual (supernatural).  However, from my own (many) independent interviews of believers, considering the similarities of many of their stories, I found it hard to believe that all these people, from different backgrounds, different geographical locations, and yes, even different religions, were all under some mass delusion.  To do otherwise would have been vastly egotistical and tremendously unscholarly. 

It seems that belief in a concept of God can be boiled down to a simple statement, "Once you feel it, then you know."  To believers, God seems to be felt, not demonstrated, which makes it impossible to prove.  On the flip side, most people on the non-believer side call for this proof (which cannot be scientifcally provided) and (naturally) do not receive it, and treat this lack of evidence as proof of non-existence.  Yet the point has been made abundantly clear that you can't prove something does not exist.  So any argument made claiming that God does not exist is already fundamentally unsound, because scientific proof of this claim is impossible.

It seems parties on both sides of this debate have made up their minds in advance as to their conclusions on this topic, and simply use any information or evidence available to support their own stances.  And that is about as unscientific (and egotistical) as it gets.

[liljp617]

Proving God exists is like proving human emotions exist.  You can't do it from an outside source.

I can observe human emotions.  There are physical and psychological signs of human emotions.

Say a person had never felt love, or fear.  Any explanation of these concepts to this person would probably get a good laugh.  Telling this person your own experiences with these emotions would probably bring a few insults regarding your intelligence.  Until they actually feel it for themselves, anything you say is going to be nonsense to them.

I need not explain these concepts in words or explain my own experiences.

I can show them the psychological and medical observational tests that prove these feelings occur.  Fear, for example:  increased heart/pulse rate, increased breathing rate, sweating, muscle tightening, increased activity in specific parts of the brain (Hypothalamus, Amygdala, etc.), and other "symptoms" when a person is in such a state of fear.  I could show them experiment after experiment of people exhibiting these medical conditions and behaviors when in such a state of fear.

As an agnostic, I'm able to at least say "You know what, I don't know." after considering evidence from both sides.

Everyone is agnostic.  Nobody knows and currently no human is capable of knowing.

Yes, there is a lack of empirical scientific evidence proving the existence of God, but there's no surprise there considering science deals in the physical (natural) world and the concept of God pretty much always places him in the realm of the spiritual (supernatural).

Here we find another obvious issue.  Until someone can show me even an inkling of respectable evidence that this supernatural world exists, I simply cannot see a single reason to believe that anything exists beyond the natural world.  Why should I?  This doesn't mean I believe the supernatural world doesn't exist, it means I lack the belief that it does (yes, there is a necessary distinction in that sentence).

However, from my own (many) independent interviews of believers, considering the similarities of many of their stories, I found it hard to believe that all these people, from different backgrounds, different geographical locations, and yes, even different religions, were all under some mass delusion.  To do otherwise would have been vastly egotistical and tremendously unscholarly.

The stories are similar because they are products of each other, not because there is some supernatural force guiding a common story throughout each of them.  It's not exactly an accident that the Hebrew creation story shares great similarities with the Egyptian creation story.  It's not exactly an accident that the story of Noah shares great similarities with numerous other stories of global floods.  It's not exactly an accident that the identity of Jesus Christ shares great similarities with the identity of Mithra.

The stories are a based upon one another and developed throughout centuries side by side.  Any rational person would expect the stories to be similar given mankind's cultural development and the development of these religions throughout history.

And let's be honest, many religions aren't similar at all in their details.  Compare Eastern Asian religions/philosophies to the Abrahamic religions.

It seems that belief in a concept of God can be boiled down to a simple statement, "Once you feel it, then you know."  To believers, God seems to be felt, not demonstrated, which makes it impossible to prove.  On the flip side, most people on the non-believer side call for this proof (which cannot be scientifcally provided) and (naturally) do not receive it, and treat this lack of evidence as proof of non-existence.  Yet the point has been made abundantly clear that you can't prove something does not exist.  So any argument made claiming that God does not exist is already fundamentally unsound, because scientific proof of this claim is impossible.

I think you're mistaken.  The average non-believer calls for proof, does not receive it, and treats this lack of proof as reason to lack belief.  

I will make the same distinction I made earlier: Having a lack of belief in deities is in no way the same as believing deities don't exist.

Under reasonable assumptions, a newborn child lacks belief in deities; a newborn child does not hold a belief that deities don't exist.  This is no different from the position your average atheist holds.*  

*I say average, because there are clearly some "strong" atheists who hold the adamant position that deities don't/can't exist, but these atheists are somewhat rare relatively speaking.